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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5335
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Posted - 2016.10.13 07:46:58 -
[391] - Quote
Baracuda wrote:Better don't be too smug. You are still the biggest RMT entity in game and hopefully banned soon too.
Oh look an emissary of the biggest assholes in the game has made his appearance.
Kindly FOADIAF...literally.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Araneatrox
Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate.
59
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Posted - 2016.10.13 08:01:21 -
[392] - Quote
So, I currently pay for a TS Server and some hosting via ISK though services hosted on the forums. Under the new EULA this would seem to be banned.
Post EULA is that still acceptable or not?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5663372#post5663372 |
Sweetiepie Sugartits
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.10.13 08:03:00 -
[393] - Quote
What is random? What is skill? How do you define any word at all, really? All I really know for sure is that all the hairsplitting & semanticist pontification in the whole world won't get you sleazy dinguses your accounts or isk back. :) |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5335
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Posted - 2016.10.13 08:04:15 -
[394] - Quote
Is there some sort of game of chance?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Sweetiepie Sugartits
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.10.13 08:08:11 -
[395] - Quote
Sections 10 and 11 of the EOL TOS specifically exempt voice comms service providers. |
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
33
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Posted - 2016.10.13 08:09:23 -
[396] - Quote
Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.
Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5337
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 08:17:08 -
[397] - Quote
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis wrote:Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.
Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in.
Don't be a ****. RMT has always been against the EULA they knew what they were doing and they knew the risks.
They get to keep their real life money so STFU about their loss of pretend money.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Luscius Uta
237
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Posted - 2016.10.13 08:37:17 -
[398] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Toobo wrote:Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI. You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right?
I don't see why that bothers you, RMT is CCP's problem, not ours. EVE is a game where that encourages all kind of scamming and stealing except in one specific case - when CCP is the side that is getting scammed. If they don't care when we get scammed, why should we care when the same thing happens to them?
Workarounds are not bugfixes.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
276
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Posted - 2016.10.13 08:44:15 -
[399] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Toobo wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Toobo wrote:Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI. You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right? Dude I said multiple times I agree with banning RMTers. So obviously any banker or IWI staff or players that were involved in RMT are not in my 'thank you list'. Get a grip. There were loads of people who played the game legit. Then WTF are you on about. Nobody else has been banned. You are talking complete gibberish. IWI people--banned for RMT. Eve Casino--Banned for multiple EULA violations. All other gambling sites: 26 Days to Unwind their positions. Seriously, you sound like a someone who is totally clueless.
You are the clueless one here. NOT ALL bankers are banned, and that means they have not RMTed. But yet hey had their wallet turned to 0 ISK. If the ISK they earned from banking with IWI is considered as RMT fund, then I can understand the banking profits off IWI could be in consideration for confiscation. But beside banking, bankers put in their personal ISK, which they earned through legit in game means, to bank with. This ISK is not earned from IWI, it's personal fund that bankers used to bank with, much like many playeres gambled with ISK they made through non EULA breaking in game means.
What happened is that, these bankers all had their ISK turned into zero. Also, bankers' alts, such as ratting toon or whatever, if they had wallet transaction history with the banking toon, got their wallet ISK turned to zero.
If they have RMTed, sure their accounts should be banned. But their accounts are alive, and even toons that were not involved with IWI got their ISK confiscated, ISK they made through ratting or incursion or WH or whatever.
I applied to be a banker two months ago, but I didn't get accepted. But according to how CCP has done it now, if I joined IWI as a banker back then, then ALL my ISK and assets I accumulated through nearly a decade of hame playing eve before IWI existed would have been confiscated, for having mere association with IWI for two months and never having done RMT myself.
There are people who became banker a few days ago, and they had all their ISK removed.
CCP is not even considering such cases, and automatically close support tickets and petitions from these guys without even lookiing into their case.
Now tell me, you seriously think all of the above is good job done from CCP?
TOOBO RAGE.
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Sweetiepie Sugartits
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2016.10.13 08:51:33 -
[400] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Toobo wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Toobo wrote:Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI. You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right? Dude I said multiple times I agree with banning RMTers. So obviously any banker or IWI staff or players that were involved in RMT are not in my 'thank you list'. Get a grip. There were loads of people who played the game legit. Then WTF are you on about. Nobody else has been banned. You are talking complete gibberish. IWI people--banned for RMT. Eve Casino--Banned for multiple EULA violations. All other gambling sites: 26 Days to Unwind their positions. Seriously, you sound like a someone who is totally clueless. You are the clueless one here. NOT ALL bankers are banned, and that means they have not RMTed. But yet hey had their wallet turned to 0 ISK. If the ISK they earned from banking with IWI is considered as RMT fund, then I can understand the banking profits off IWI could be in consideration for confiscation. But beside banking, bankers put in their personal ISK, which they earned through legit in game means, to bank with. This ISK is not earned from IWI, it's personal fund that bankers used to bank with, much like many playeres gambled with ISK they made through non EULA breaking in game means. What happened is that, these bankers all had their ISK turned into zero. Also, bankers' alts, such as ratting toon or whatever, if they had wallet transaction history with the banking toon, got their wallet ISK turned to zero. If they have RMTed, sure their accounts should be banned. But their accounts are alive, and even toons that were not involved with IWI got their ISK confiscated, ISK they made through ratting or incursion or WH or whatever. I applied to be a banker two months ago, but I didn't get accepted. But according to how CCP has done it now, if I joined IWI as a banker back then, then ALL my ISK and assets I accumulated through nearly a decade of hame playing eve before IWI existed would have been confiscated, for having mere association with IWI for two months and never having done RMT myself. There are people who became banker a few days ago, and they had all their ISK removed. CCP is not even considering such cases, and automatically close support tickets and petitions from these guys without even lookiing into their case. Now tell me, you seriously think all of the above is good job done from CCP?
It's called making an example, you tedious crybaby.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
276
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Posted - 2016.10.13 09:14:34 -
[401] - Quote
Making example by punishing the innocent? You think that's good management?
TOOBO RAGE.
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Aelavaine
University of Caille Gallente Federation
99
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 09:25:10 -
[402] - Quote
tl;dr
Since I don't speak lawyerish that point regarding gambling leaves me with more questions than answers.
I also have no sympathy with RMTs, so do with them what you want. But to boot everyone who enriched the game since its start, 3rd parties you even supported by yourself, without further explanation is just a catastrophy. There are honest sites and operators out there who deserve better (EOH, BIG for example) and at least an explanation why they are now the bad boys.
Game == Gambling - The whole game is gambling, with every journey through New Eden. Do you come back with more Ore? Will that gank give you a shiny killmail? Will that mission drop enough loot? And so on. And of course you can increase your chances by fitting your ship better. Or pay a third party 10M ISK for example, so they gank you less likely. But that's all gambling too and involves third parties, more or less.
Well maybe it's because of some laws in the UK and US. I don't live there so I don't care. What if the Iran prohibites games with spaceships next year? Will you seize all ships ingame and ban all who used them?
This issue deserves to be handled with more care and sensitivity.
You want more than spinning ships? Support Avatar Gameplay!
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tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
262
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Posted - 2016.10.13 09:55:24 -
[403] - Quote
The issue chaps is down to gambling sites being caught RMTing. Pure and simple. I am not sure CCP had a huge issue (could be wrong) with the actual sites, because everything in it under the current EULA they stlll effectively own as everything was done with in game items and currency. The ISK still effectively belongs to CCP. But then selling it for real money goes over the line. Im surprised it took CCP so long.
So to stop this ever happening CCP have no choice whether you agree or not to have a blanket ban on any such type of activity. Therefore it stops the issue happening full stop, no grey areas no buts or maybes just No. Which in reality was the right thing to do.
and hey IWI and Casino where fixed anyways you were equally being scammed as well. Plus all this CCP will kill advertising is complete BS. The adverts were for gambling not attracting more players to eve. and if it did attract players to eve, in order to just gamble well thats wrong too.
just let it go, if you read apples zillion page aggrement or other T&Cs properley you would probably never sign up or buy anything.
All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
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Sweetiepie Sugartits
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.10.13 10:01:08 -
[404] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Making example by punishing the innocent? You think that's good management?
I think they saw humongous, festering rat king slogging through their sandbox & rightly decided that rather than spend precious resources trying to disentangle the tails, simply chose to throw a grenade on the whole mess. Which is fine, IMO. It sets an example, makes things clear, & creates content, really, when you think about it. |
Freelancer117
so you want to be a Hero
510
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 10:11:15 -
[405] - Quote
Time and time again CCP is taking away content from the (meta) game. Killing off mini professions, having to walk their path in the game, and interfering by extending their jurisdiction outside the game.
Question to CCP:
What is your stance on Citadel owners using Charities as a pvp shield, when only a slimmer of it's revenue is going to charity ?
"Originally, the suggestion was to have 25% of the profits go to goodwill projects, but this was met with an overwhelmingly negative response. UPDATE: Lenny clarified his position on distribution: It is an either/or, with Lenny getting 0% and Chribba getting 25%, or, Lenny getting 15% and Chribba getting 10%. This depends on the availability of Chribba for distributing the 15%. Either way, the 15% will be distributed to various goodwill projects within Eve"
sources: https://www.themittani.com/news/new-eden-trade-network https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/a-reminder-regarding-scamming-charity-events/
Regards, a Freelancer
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1319
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 10:11:41 -
[406] - Quote
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis wrote:Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.
Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in.
Maybe you should go back and actually read what happened. They are being punished because of changes to the rules. They're being punished for breaking rules that were already in place.
Stupidity isn't cool either. You should try and avoid it in the future.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1319
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 10:12:33 -
[407] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Toobo wrote:Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI. You do realize you are thanking and kissing the asses of players who are now banned for engaging in RMT? Right? I don't see why that bothers you, RMT is CCP's problem, not ours. EVE is a game where that encourages all kind of scamming and stealing except in one specific case - when CCP is the side that is getting scammed. If they don't care when we get scammed, why should we care when the same thing happens to them?
Are you for real with this stuff? You can't be for real. Nobody is this pants on head.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1319
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 10:14:25 -
[408] - Quote
Toobo wrote:
You are the clueless one here. NOT ALL bankers are banned, and that means they have not RMTed. But yet hey had their wallet turned to 0 ISK. If the ISK they earned from banking with IWI is considered as RMT fund, then I can understand the banking profits off IWI could be in consideration for confiscation. But beside banking, bankers put in their personal ISK, which they earned through legit in game means, to bank with. This ISK is not earned from IWI, it's personal fund that bankers used to bank with, much like many playeres gambled with ISK they made through non EULA breaking in game means.
What happened is that, these bankers all had their ISK turned into zero. Also, bankers' alts, such as ratting toon or whatever, if they had wallet transaction history with the banking toon, got their wallet ISK turned to zero.
If they have RMTed, sure their accounts should be banned. But their accounts are alive, and even toons that were not involved with IWI got their ISK confiscated, ISK they made through ratting or incursion or WH or whatever.
I applied to be a banker two months ago, but I didn't get accepted. But according to how CCP has done it now, if I joined IWI as a banker back then, then ALL my ISK and assets I accumulated through nearly a decade of hame playing eve before IWI existed would have been confiscated, for having mere association with IWI for two months and never having done RMT myself.
There are people who became banker a few days ago, and they had all their ISK removed.
CCP is not even considering such cases, and automatically close support tickets and petitions from these guys without even lookiing into their case.
Now tell me, you seriously think all of the above is good job done from CCP?
Yes, since this is the way they have always handled these cases. Anything else would have smacked of favoritism and that would have been a real problem, not this drama llama stuff you seem to be focused on.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Aldran Gentlharp
I Maicar Mordo Invictum.
17
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Posted - 2016.10.13 10:24:20 -
[409] - Quote
Sweetiepie Sugartits wrote:It's called making an example, you tedious crybaby.
Making an exampel is unlawfull in a constitutional state under any circumstances. I know CCP is not a a constitutional state but its stil not very sensitive.
For me IWI was a ISK burner but also a nice sidegame if i had nothing else to do because some neuts running wild or so. I liked it.
Also someone sayed CCP would be scammed by RMT. You are wrong by the structure of the game its just impossible that ccp loose money because of RMT. All items that can be selled for RM are initialy buyed from CCP or just Items that CCP don't sell anyway for RM.
This doesn't mean RMT is right it just mean its the wrong argument against RMT.
What realy is a Problem for CCP is the hubris of USA that their laws have to apply all over the world.
PS: I like to suggest again to use different colors for the old TOS parts and the new ones in the DEV Blog |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
376
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 10:34:09 -
[410] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:EDIT: Not to mention, prohibition has literally never worked, people will still gamble. Alright, here's the deal. Of all the US cities, only Vegas allows gambling, right? Why? Why dont you lift the restriction and allow it throughout the country? It gives the jobs, it gives the taxes. It even diminishes the crime, because no more illegal casinos, right? Wrong!
Despite all the sweet things that casinos provide, they bring way too many problems. Gambling should've never been allowed in EVE. Mistakes were made, but now when it's gone I can only cheer CCP for this decision. And so should you. |
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Luscius Uta
237
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Posted - 2016.10.13 10:36:11 -
[411] - Quote
Aldran Gentlharp wrote:
Also someone sayed CCP would be scammed by RMT. You are wrong by the structure of the game its just impossible that ccp loose money because of RMT. All items that can be selled for RM are initialy buyed from CCP or just Items that CCP don't sell anyway for RM.
This doesn't mean RMT is right it just mean its the wrong argument against RMT.
If RMT doesn't harm CCP, why they have such strong stance against it?
Workarounds are not bugfixes.
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Aldran Gentlharp
I Maicar Mordo Invictum.
17
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Posted - 2016.10.13 10:46:27 -
[412] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Aldran Gentlharp wrote:
Also someone sayed CCP would be scammed by RMT. You are wrong by the structure of the game its just impossible that ccp loose money because of RMT. All items that can be selled for RM are initialy buyed from CCP or just Items that CCP don't sell anyway for RM.
This doesn't mean RMT is right it just mean its the wrong argument against RMT.
If RMT doesn't harm CCP, why they have such strong stance against it?
I can't read their minds but i guess because it is usual. The only online Game i ever seen who allowed RMT was second live and this wasn't really a game.
PS: i edited the Post before a little bit because a image loss is stil possible but i don't think that this is realy the case here. |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
216
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 11:05:47 -
[413] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:I don't care what you do to RMTers (assuming you didn't pulled RMT excuse out of your sleeve just to have a reason to retroactively ban gamblers before EULA changes become effective), but you also hurt a lot of innocent players who had their ISK held by such sites and that's not cool. Well, gambling is called idiot tax for a reason. |
Ruddger
Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem
9
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Posted - 2016.10.13 11:20:23 -
[414] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:EDIT: Not to mention, prohibition has literally never worked, people will still gamble. Alright, here's the deal. Of all the US cities, only Vegas allows gambling, right? Why? Why dont you lift the restriction and allow it throughout the country? It gives the jobs, it gives the taxes. It even diminishes the crime, because no more illegal casinos, right? Wrong! Despite all the sweet things that casinos provide, they bring way too many problems. Gambling should've never been allowed in EVE. Mistakes were made, but now when it's gone I can only cheer CCP for this decision. And so should you.
Lol what?
44 states have lotteries, 30 states have casinos. So no, in no reality is vegas the only place that allows gambling. |
Sweetiepie Sugartits
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.10.13 11:48:09 -
[415] - Quote
States that allow gambling have things like "gambling commissions" & such, which allow the state to oversee gambling operations & make sure they are doing business in ways that don't f*** the state. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
377
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Posted - 2016.10.13 11:57:21 -
[416] - Quote
Alright, my bad then. Better do fact checking next time. In my country though casinos are prohibited (except for a few places that no-one uses anyway). And I'm absolutely happy about that. They were allowed like 10 years ago and I am an eye-witness of all the bull**** associated with them. |
Senjiu Kanuba
Risk Breakers Snuffed Out
3
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Posted - 2016.10.13 12:03:16 -
[417] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis wrote:Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.
Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in. Maybe you should go back and actually read what happened. They aren't being punished because of changes to the rules. They're being punished for breaking rules that were already in place. Stupidity isn't cool either. You should try and avoid it in the future.
Is that what happened? To me it looks more like they're changing the rules and stopping gambling that way. It's not about the RMT-people, it's about the other parties that also did gambling, like eve-bet for example. They didn't break any rules that were already in place (at least not to my knowledge and apparently also not to CCP's knowledge). But they will break the rules if they continue doing what they do and THAT is why they're shut down.
Yes, IWI was punished for RMT and that's okay. But I don't see why all the other 'legal' gambling services are also shut down.
On a related but different topic: Will CCP host the alliance tournament stream on all weekends again next year, like they did in the past?
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ISD Max Trix
isd community communications liaisons
382
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 12:16:05 -
[418] - Quote
Closed for Cleaning.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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Urziel99
Unified Research and Industrial
173
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 12:40:56 -
[419] - Quote
Senjiu Kanuba wrote:Elenahina wrote:Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis wrote:Ex-post facto punishments with rule changes--e.g., punishing IWI gamblers and dealers--isn't cool, ever; it's immoral (read: dickish) and creates an unstable economy.
Guess I'm taking another extended break from the game, though I don't foresee any big events on the horizon to draw me back in. Maybe you should go back and actually read what happened. They aren't being punished because of changes to the rules. They're being punished for breaking rules that were already in place. Stupidity isn't cool either. You should try and avoid it in the future. Is that what happened? To me it looks more like they're changing the rules and stopping gambling that way. It's not about the RMT-people, it's about the other parties that also did gambling, like eve-bet for example. They didn't break any rules that were already in place (at least not to my knowledge and apparently also not to CCP's knowledge). But they will break the rules if they continue doing what they do and THAT is why they're shut down. Yes, IWI was punished for RMT and that's okay. But I don't see why all the other 'legal' gambling services are also shut down. On a related but different topic: Will CCP host the alliance tournament stream on all weekends again next year, like they did in the past?
1. Eve-bet isn't shut down. The have been ordered to case operations by Nov. 8th. 2. If you want to know why they are are doing it. Possible answers include the Valve lawsuits. The UK Gaming Commission's recent White paper. That they got sick and tired of dealing with RMT through the casino websites. Or they just felt like changing the rules to their game, which is their right. I'm sure they have already anticipated losing customers over it. I'm sure they don't really care. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1927
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 12:42:20 -
[420] - Quote
Toobo wrote: I get that CCP must have evidence of some involved RMT-ing, but I have never RMT'ed in my whole eve career, CCP can look through any records of mine and YOU will KNOW that I never RMTed. But yet, I lost my ISK from your shutdown of IWI.
There must be many others. SOME bankers/players who made lots of ISK may have RMTed. Ban them. I don't like RMT tards anyway. Ban them for good. I'm happy with that.
But why should ALL players, and non offending staffs of the site should lose the ISK?
Players supported someone with their ISK. This someone did RMT using ISK he got from players in question.
Someone gets banned for RMT. Are players free from accusing in RMT being supporters of someone in question?
I think it's easy: you (indirectly) supported RMT -> you got punished for it.
And please do not play card 'i was unaware of RMT'. People creating external resource and paying real money for maintenance of some system to be used only ingame? LoL....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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