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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18620
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Posted - 2016.10.14 10:17:51 -
[511] - Quote
hunter Madullier wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:hunter Madullier wrote:This is a **** take for all those players that played iwi legit and now have lost all that isk might I add that it is also not legal what u have done alot of people will have bought plex abd played on iwi and u just removed that from them without notic I dont no where u are from but that is illegal in the uk all removal of items that have been paid for must be given notice and refunded back to the person who bought the item unless your game is stated as beta and that all items are subject to removal eve isnt a beta game and has no such thing stated in the eula so give player who didnt do jack all wrong there isk back Anything in game you DO NOT own them. You agreed to this once you accepted the EULA. So, you are just...wrong. yes but they still require to give u a 30days notice period of a removal of item/items if money has been paid for them if the player has breached the eula and tos then they can be removed without notice but if a player hasent broken them then they cannot just simply remove it the day they announce a change in the eula they must give players time to remove there items from such sites or refund it back to the players account rember they are not just punishing the guys who did breach the eula they are punishing alot of eve players who had nothing to do with the rmt how is that a fair and legal punishment plenty of court cases where devolpers have done this and lost in court of law have you actually read the game EULA in full? i usually dont bother but with a game like eve its definitely a good idea. essentially it says they can take the leg you were standing on and beat you about the head with it , pretty much at their discretion.
how you might ask? because we all agreed to it and by virtue of being here you have too.
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agents
Praposal:Un-F**k NPC Corps
=]|[=
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Sweetiepie Sugartits
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2016.10.14 10:33:39 -
[512] - Quote
it's their sandbox, they can pretty much do what they want with it :) o7 |
Tiberius Zol
Moira. Villore Accords
141
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Posted - 2016.10.14 10:53:36 -
[513] - Quote
Sweetiepie Sugartits wrote:it's their sandbox, they can pretty much do what they want with it :) o7
Yes and no. ;) As long as some verbalizations are against applicable law, you can ignore them (which is NOT the case to be honest).
But as you said. He didn't pay for his items or isk. He paid money for his subscription only.
(shame to agree with a goon. ;) )
Mr. Tibbers on twitter: @Mr_Tibbers
Mr. Tibbers Blog: www.eve-versum.de
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26976
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Posted - 2016.10.14 11:01:50 -
[514] - Quote
hunter Madullier wrote:This is a **** take for all those players that played iwi legit and now have lost all that isk might I add that it is also not legal what u have done alot of people will have bought plex abd played on iwi and u just removed that from them without notic Except none of it was yours, try reading the EULA; especially the bit where CCP says that they own all of the things that are ingame, including your character and any items associated with it.
Quote:I dont no where u are from but that is illegal in the uk all removal of items that have been paid for must be given notice and refunded back to the person who bought the item unless your game is stated as beta and that all items are subject to removal eve isnt a beta game and has no such thing stated in the eula so give player who didnt do jack all wrong there isk back If you had the isk on deposit at IWI it was associated with and in the possession of IWI, not you. It is quite common in the real world for the assets in the possession of a "criminal" organisation to be confiscated by the "authorities" without notice or recourse.
You're welcome to consult a solicitor and try to take CCP to court over it; I'm sure your local magistrate will have a good giggle at your expense.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1336
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Posted - 2016.10.14 11:16:02 -
[515] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I'm sure your local magistrate will have a good giggle at your expense.
He may as well, the rest of us are.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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DJ Yumene
Eve Radio Corporation Eve Radio Alliance
1
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Posted - 2016.10.14 13:15:56 -
[516] - Quote
Is there any official word on how this is going to effect fan sites that run contests and giveaways? I was trying to get some clarification from CCP in the ticket system however I keep getting a copy-paste response to read the dev blog. Helpful ...
So, thought to ask here.
DJ Yumene - http://www.eve-radio.com
Assistant Station Manager, Eve Radio
[email protected]
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Eisen Wor'sha
Mindstar Technology Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.10.14 13:19:22 -
[517] - Quote
I apologize if this has been asked but will this apply to ISK sports betting? It's not a game of chance. In fact, ISK gambling on sports has made me better at fantasy sports because there's value associated with my bets, and I tend to care more about it.
What gambling I could have done with real money has been moved to New Eden where I'm more betting my pride and half an hour of ratting.
If this constitutes transferring ISK or assets to a third party for games of chance, then me becoming a bookie for NFL and MLB games is also a violation of the EULA?
WHAT THE HELL IT SOUNDS LIKE FUN PLEASE LET ME DO IT |
Urziel99
Unified Research and Industrial
179
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Posted - 2016.10.14 13:40:54 -
[518] - Quote
Eisen Wor'sha wrote:I apologize if this has been asked but will this apply to ISK sports betting? It's not a game of chance. In fact, ISK gambling on sports has made me better at fantasy sports because there's value associated with my bets, and I tend to care more about it.
What gambling I could have done with real money has been moved to New Eden where I'm more betting my pride and half an hour of ratting.
If this constitutes transferring ISK or assets to a third party for games of chance, then me becoming a bookie for NFL and MLB games is also a violation of the EULA?
WHAT THE HELL IT SOUNDS LIKE FUN PLEASE LET ME DO IT
Safe bet is they will treat it as a game of chance. |
Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
704
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Posted - 2016.10.14 13:58:59 -
[519] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:have you actually read the game EULA in full? i usually dont bother but with a game like eve its definitely a good idea. essentially it says they can take the leg you were standing on and beat you about the head with it , pretty much at their discretion.
how you might ask? because we all agreed to it and by virtue of being here you have too.
There's a South Park episode in here somewhere...
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Oraac Ensor
709
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Posted - 2016.10.14 15:52:37 -
[520] - Quote
Urziel99 wrote:Eisen Wor'sha wrote:I apologize if this has been asked but will this apply to ISK sports betting? It's not a game of chance. In fact, ISK gambling on sports has made me better at fantasy sports because there's value associated with my bets, and I tend to care more about it.
What gambling I could have done with real money has been moved to New Eden where I'm more betting my pride and half an hour of ratting.
If this constitutes transferring ISK or assets to a third party for games of chance, then me becoming a bookie for NFL and MLB games is also a violation of the EULA?
WHAT THE HELL IT SOUNDS LIKE FUN PLEASE LET ME DO IT Safe bet is they will treat it as a game of chance. I like the way you phrased that!
And of course you're correct - they will treat it as a game of chance because it is a game of chance. (Unless you have some way of fixing the results.) |
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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
8036
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Posted - 2016.10.14 16:05:47 -
[521] - Quote
DJ Yumene wrote:Is there any official word on how this is going to effect fan sites that run contests and giveaways? I was trying to get some clarification from CCP in the ticket system however I keep getting a copy-paste response to read the dev blog. Helpful ...
So, thought to ask here. Obviously only CCP can answer officially but I can't see them having a problem with giveaways and the like. CCP will be unlikely to give a direct response to it because saying "giveaways are OK" would get people running gambling sites as "giveaways" but in essence if you aren't turning it into gambling it wouldn't break the spirit of the rule. If however everyone had to pay in to be part of the giveway, that would become an issue.
Eisen Wor'sha wrote:I apologize if this has been asked but will this apply to ISK sports betting? It's not a game of chance. In fact, ISK gambling on sports has made me better at fantasy sports because there's value associated with my bets, and I tend to care more about it. It is really though, which is why in the real world it also gets regulated. From the perspective of a gambler it is somewhat down to chance. Just because it's not solely down to chance and doesn't make it fine to do.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Dodo Veetee
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
27
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Posted - 2016.10.14 16:14:19 -
[522] - Quote
ITT: Goons and that exe dude are salty as **** |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5360
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Posted - 2016.10.14 16:52:11 -
[523] - Quote
Dodo Veetee wrote:ITT: Goons and that exe dude are salty as ****
Uhhh wut...I'm not crying, I think this is an understandable move. Grath et. al. sure seem salty...
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5360
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Posted - 2016.10.14 17:12:40 -
[524] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:DJ Yumene wrote:Is there any official word on how this is going to effect fan sites that run contests and giveaways? I was trying to get some clarification from CCP in the ticket system however I keep getting a copy-paste response to read the dev blog. Helpful ...
So, thought to ask here. Obviously only CCP can answer officially but I can't see them having a problem with giveaways and the like. CCP will be unlikely to give a direct response to it because saying "giveaways are OK" would get people running gambling sites as "giveaways" but in essence if you aren't turning it into gambling it wouldn't break the spirit of the rule. If however everyone had to pay in to be part of the giveway, that would become an issue. Eisen Wor'sha wrote:I apologize if this has been asked but will this apply to ISK sports betting? It's not a game of chance. In fact, ISK gambling on sports has made me better at fantasy sports because there's value associated with my bets, and I tend to care more about it. It is really though, which is why in the real world it also gets regulated. From the perspective of a gambler it is somewhat down to chance. Just because it's not solely down to chance and doesn't make it fine to do.
If it is a random giveaway I don't see the problem. So long you don't have any sort of rake, fee, tickets, etc. that entail people giving you ISK, then it should be fine because it is not a game of chance since there is no wager.
As for betting ISK on sporrting events, yes, it is still gambling/game of chance. While the probabilities are subjective they are still valid probabilities and so forth. It is no different than horse racing, dog racing and the like.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5360
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Posted - 2016.10.14 17:28:58 -
[525] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:have you actually read the game EULA in full? i usually dont bother but with a game like eve its definitely a good idea. essentially it says they can take the leg you were standing on and beat you about the head with it , pretty much at their discretion.
how you might ask? because we all agreed to it and by virtue of being here you have too.
There's a South Park episode in here somewhere...
Well, you do know about the wedding ceremony for Canada's Royal Family right....butterscotch pudding, pulling off the brides arm, the groom sticking the arm up his....anyhow, Ralph is quite right. Reading the entire EULA and ToS is not a bad idea.
For example, these fun filled parts,
Quote:B. Rights to Certain Content
You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.
[snip]
C. User Content
The System may allow you to communicate information, such as by posting messages in chat rooms, on bulletin boards and other user-to-user areas (collectively, "User Content").
User Content that you cause to be communicated to the System may not (i) violate any statute, rule, regulation or law; (ii) infringe or violate the intellectual property, proprietary, privacy or publicity rights of any third party; (iii) be defamatory, indecent, obscene, child pornographic or harmful to minors; or (iv) contain any viruses, Trojan horses, disabling code, worms, time bombs, "clear GIFs," cancelbots or other computer programming or routines that are intended to, or which in fact, damage, detrimentally interfere with, monitor, intercept or expropriate any data, information, packets or personal information.
CCP may take any action it deems appropriate regarding any User Content, if CCP believes, in its sole discretion, that such User Content violates the EULA or may expose CCP, its licensors and/or its suppliers to liability, damage CCP's relationship with any of its suppliers, licensors, ISPs or other users of EVE, harm anyone or harm CCP's reputation or goodwill. --emphasis added
Basically, what this says is that you don't own your StuffGäó in game. Which most of us knew. The last paragraph really means CCP did not have to update their EULA to do this if they really did feel that gambling sites violated this section. In fact, CCP could have just issued permabans to everyone running a gambling site and they'd be well within their rights as laid out by the EULA that we all have agreed too. If anything, CCPs current approach is less extreme.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2866
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Posted - 2016.10.14 17:31:12 -
[526] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Dodo Veetee wrote:ITT: Goons and that exe dude are salty as **** Uhhh wut...I'm not crying, I think this is an understandable move. Grath et. al. sure seem salty...
The game is 15 years old, I'll be salty every time CCP makes another dumb choice that hurts the game in anyway.
I swear to god its like they're fumbling around looking for better ways to lower the player base.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5360
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Posted - 2016.10.14 17:34:31 -
[527] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Dodo Veetee wrote:ITT: Goons and that exe dude are salty as **** Uhhh wut...I'm not crying, I think this is an understandable move. Grath et. al. sure seem salty... The game is 15 years old, I'll be salty every time CCP makes another dumb choice that hurts the game in anyway. I swear to god its like they're fumbling around looking for better ways to lower the player base.
Well maybe someday the people at CCP will be as smart as you.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2583
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Posted - 2016.10.14 17:36:50 -
[528] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Dodo Veetee wrote:ITT: Goons and that exe dude are salty as **** Uhhh wut...I'm not crying, I think this is an understandable move. Grath et. al. sure seem salty... The game is 15 years old, I'll be salty every time CCP makes another dumb choice that hurts the game in anyway. I swear to god its like they're fumbling around looking for better ways to lower the player base. You're, like, fundamentally incapable of understanding why they did this, aren't you?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
650
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Posted - 2016.10.14 17:51:47 -
[529] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Dodo Veetee wrote:ITT: Goons and that exe dude are salty as **** Uhhh wut...I'm not crying, I think this is an understandable move. Grath et. al. sure seem salty... The game is 15 years old, I'll be salty every time CCP makes another dumb choice that hurts the game in anyway. I swear to god its like they're fumbling around looking for better ways to lower the player base.
I'm going to agree with this last line, not because of this thread, but overall over the last couple of years and the changes they put in.
This change almost smells like a distraction to what's coming in November, almost sort of maybe definitley.
Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..."
" They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."
Welcome to EVE.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2005
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Posted - 2016.10.14 18:30:26 -
[530] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:I'm going to agree with this last line, not because of this thread, but overall over the last couple of years and the changes they put in.
This change almost smells like a distraction to what's coming in November, almost sort of maybe definitley. Please explain. I'm having a really hard time seeing how a response to a breach of the EULA linked to IWI and the resulting policy change could be in anyone's mind related to upcoming changes in the manner you state.
Sure, it could be in relation to the possible influx of alphas making gambling more prolific and/or leading to larger operations with new ways to hide RMT, but that doesn't seem like what you're insinuating. |
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Urziel99
Unified Research and Industrial
180
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Posted - 2016.10.14 18:38:52 -
[531] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:I'm going to agree with this last line, not because of this thread, but overall over the last couple of years and the changes they put in.
This change almost smells like a distraction to what's coming in November, almost sort of maybe definitley. Please explain. I'm having a really hard time seeing how a response to a breach of the EULA linked to IWI and the resulting policy change could be in anyone's mind related to upcoming changes in the manner you state. Sure, it could be in relation to the possible influx of alphas making gambling more prolific and/or leading to larger operations with new ways to hide RMT, but that doesn't seem like what you're insinuating.
I think he's referencing CCP's unerring ability to lose portions of their player base to bad changes (Phoebe, Aegis, etc.) |
Dodo Veetee
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
27
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Posted - 2016.10.14 19:06:53 -
[532] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Dodo Veetee wrote:ITT: Goons and that exe dude are salty as **** Uhhh wut...I'm not crying, I think this is an understandable move. Grath et. al. sure seem salty...
Reading through your posts, it seems like a mix of rambling at why you think CCP is right at doing this and a rage of some sort against the people who don't agree with you or CCP. You even go out as to insult people's intellect if they don't agree with your point of view. So yeah, I think that classifies it as "salt". |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5361
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Posted - 2016.10.14 19:09:14 -
[533] - Quote
Urziel99 wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:I'm going to agree with this last line, not because of this thread, but overall over the last couple of years and the changes they put in.
This change almost smells like a distraction to what's coming in November, almost sort of maybe definitley. Please explain. I'm having a really hard time seeing how a response to a breach of the EULA linked to IWI and the resulting policy change could be in anyone's mind related to upcoming changes in the manner you state. Sure, it could be in relation to the possible influx of alphas making gambling more prolific and/or leading to larger operations with new ways to hide RMT, but that doesn't seem like what you're insinuating. I think he's referencing CCP's unerring ability to lose portions of their player base to bad changes (Phoebe, Aegis, etc.)
I am sympathetic to the notion that CCP shoots itself in the foot, maybe even often. For example, removal of the watchlist was a bad move, IMO. The continuing nerfs to HS ganking is another.
But taking Grath's statements at face value one might conclude he was opposed to the changes to the EULA regarding ISBoxer (and I don't know what his view was just speculating that since is likely cost CCP subs, it is therefore a bad move).
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
349
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Posted - 2016.10.14 19:22:00 -
[534] - Quote
CCP presents: Joyless life for New Eden capsuleers. Now one step closer.
Why do you want to ban everything fun (now gambling)? Introduce in EVE gambling if you ban 3rd party gambling!
Mikhem
Link library to EVE music songs.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5361
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Posted - 2016.10.14 19:25:54 -
[535] - Quote
Mikhem wrote:CCP presents: Joyless life for New Eden capsuleers. Now one step closer.
Why do you want to ban everything fun (now gambling)? Introduce in EVE gambling if you ban 3rd party gambling!
There could be a problem with that too.
You gamble. Run out of or low on ISK. Buy PLEX from CCP for $19.95. Keep gambling.
Very well could run afoul of the U.S. gambling laws.
And given the RICO statues, asset forfeiture laws...I would not risk it without checking with my legal team and making triple damn sure.
So, don't hold your breath.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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PsychoBitch
Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
465
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Posted - 2016.10.14 19:31:08 -
[536] - Quote
When does eve-bet get shut down? |
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
8036
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Posted - 2016.10.14 19:31:49 -
[537] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:The game is 15 years old, I'll be salty every time CCP makes another choice that I even remotely dislike or disagree with. FTFY
Grath Telkin wrote:I swear to god its like they're fumbling around looking for better ways to lower the player base. The good news is you can make it better today! Quit.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Urziel99
Unified Research and Industrial
180
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Posted - 2016.10.14 19:34:49 -
[538] - Quote
PsychoBitch wrote:When does eve-bet get shut down?
These third party services are free to finalize these wagers over the course of the weekend given that they have not broken our rules, but must wind down operations in an orderly fashion before 11:00 UTC on Tuesday November 8th, 2016.
It's in the dev blog, near the top |
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1679
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Posted - 2016.10.14 21:00:54 -
[539] - Quote
I have removed a disrespectful post that was personal in nature. Those quoting it were also removed.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Sweetiepie Sugartits
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2016.10.14 21:54:11 -
[540] - Quote
Dodo Veetee wrote:ITT: Goons and that exe dude are salty as ****
I'm salty as heck from rolling around in the tears in this thread |
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