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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
getmoving
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Posted - 2007.03.23 00:26:00 -
[1]
after 2 hours of sorting bpo's and bpc's out its clear that we need a easy indetifiable way of telling the difference. without having to look at the properties. please ccp make this happen. :)
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Slate Fistcrunch
Direct Intent The Makhai
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Posted - 2007.03.23 00:33:00 -
[2]
This has been discussed many times before. A dev even replied to one of the threads. Do a search; you might find it.
CCP agrees this is a good idea but the problem is with their database. Making the change would cause some kind of monstrous problem with the database and access times, etc.
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William Hamilton
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Posted - 2007.03.23 04:50:00 -
[3]
Why not instead of a different icon have one of those sub-icon things like the one that shows if a gun is large, medium, or small. A little thing in the corner with "copy" or "original".
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jbob2000
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.23 04:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: William Hamilton Why not instead of a different icon have one of those sub-icon things like the one that shows if a gun is large, medium, or small. A little thing in the corner with "copy" or "original".
It's still the exact same problem. ________________________________ KIA Recruitment
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Liliane Woodhead
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Posted - 2007.03.23 05:02:00 -
[5]
Sub-icon ? Signed ! .... a big nashua copier machine *g*
Oh and use your Science Tab. Thats a way faster to identify copies. But you are right, we need a clear way to see through our hundredthousands of blueprints :)
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Arii Smith
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.03.23 05:14:00 -
[6]
Wait, if the DB can support the Tech II icon, why can it not it support a little copy icon.
Not that I doubt this, if it was easy to fix the problems EVE has they would have done it already, but I do not understand that bit at all.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.03.23 05:29:00 -
[7]
the problem, as they have been saying, is the database.
a t2 bpo and a t2 bpc are both tech 2. easy to add an icon to show they are different.
the problem in the difference between a BPC and a BPO is all database. a copy and original are the Same, except the data entry for the Copy has some Limit number, while the Oringal has some code for Unlimited there instead. making the client look up the detail on each one would cause more severe lag on client and server side while loading.
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Kumu Honua
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Posted - 2007.03.23 05:34:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kumu Honua on 23/03/2007 05:32:33
Quote: Why not instead of a different icon have one of those sub-icon things like the one that shows if a gun is large, medium, or small. A little thing in the corner with "copy" or "original".
You mean the S/M/L subicon that universally isn't correct on half my railguns?
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.03.23 05:36:00 -
[9]
On the side, you could always rename the BPC's different from the BPO's...
Then again I am applying my /seconded to this idea of actually having an icon or visual representation of difference between a BPC and BPO * [center] NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys |
Maglorre
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Posted - 2007.03.23 05:37:00 -
[10]
Yeah, it's kinda sucky. When you open whatever container contains your BPs, apparently it just gets the itemID for the BP. The itemID for the BPO and the BPC are the same. It's not until you pull up the detail for that particular BP that it then gets the information for the individual item record that tells it whether it's a BPO or a BPC.
Would be nice though if once you had done that it remembered what it was until you closed the container again and marked the print in some way so you could tell.
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.03.23 05:47:00 -
[11]
while i'm no expert on anything to do with the game, surely the thing which renders the icon could check the unlimited run flag, and render a different image if it has one there?
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Moraguth
Amarr Rangers
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Posted - 2007.03.23 06:27:00 -
[12]
It has nothing to do with "checking the bp for infinate runs tag" or anything like that. Do a search like the man above said.
The images are Hard Coded into the description of the BP. In order to change them, they'd have to go through, every single BP to find if it is a BPC or a BPO and change it manually to your new type. there are ALOT of blue prints out there, they said they'd love to do it, but it simply isn't worth the man-hours.
good game |
Actanna Levh
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.03.23 06:34:00 -
[13]
Different coloured BPCs. If only. Certainly its on my wish list.
I put my BPCÆs into a cargo containers. This helps a little in keeping track of them.
I still get confused when they come back from copying with BPC first in line as opposed to re-opening the items window where the BPCs seem to come after BPOs.
And all those rig ones! I give them their own container too.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.03.23 06:46:00 -
[14]
I also support the idea of a different color for bpcs. If you are doing the sorting on your own hangar, you are out of luck. *BUT* if this is a case of corp blueprints, you can go to the "Science & Industry" window, check the blueprints tab and on that list you will have a column saying if the bp is an original or a copy. You can even sort by that column. Very cool, I use it a lot. |
Moraguth
Amarr Rangers
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Posted - 2007.03.23 06:55:00 -
[15]
CCP supports it too, but read above when i replied before. It's not going to happen anytime soon, and probably won't ever because of the way it is hardcoded into the database.
I remember databases from college and thought a simple find/replace with an if statement would work to script it all out, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume they know a hell of alot more about their DB than I do. =D
good game |
Aeryn Davenport
Claflin Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.23 07:56:00 -
[16]
Already been asked and already been answered. It would generate a huge amount of extra lag. Why? Well, when you open your items hangar it queries the database as to what image to load for that item icon and then loads it. If you made BPOs a different color from BPCs you would generate more inquiries. And guess what? There's a HUUUUGE amount of BPOs and BPCs out there (as you can probably tell from the sheer number you have), so the aggregate load added to the system would be pretty extensive. So it's not going to happen.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.03.23 08:03:00 -
[17]
You can always hardcode the client so that if it's a copy, apply some shading to the picture and make it different....IMO I don't think it's something impossible and it can be done lag-less. |
Mortania
Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.03.23 08:08:00 -
[18]
I call BS on the lag claim anymore.
They found a way for the T2 stuff to differentiate, they can figure it out for BPO/BPC.
By solving the t2 problem they have shown it was only willingness to do so that is the problem.
4 years of headaches for basically every player because they can't solve this problem.
Put a tag on the Originals like T2 only color it blue.
---
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Mortania
Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.03.23 08:09:00 -
[19]
Originally by: getmoving after 2 hours of sorting bpo's and bpc's out its clear that we need a easy indetifiable way of telling the difference. without having to look at the properties. please ccp make this happen. :)
Oh, and use the manufacturing tab, one of them is a blueprints tab, you can show only copies or originals. makes it easier to get through them. ---
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Lt Angus
Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.23 08:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mortania I call BS on the lag claim anymore.
They found a way for the T2 stuff to differentiate, they can figure it out for BPO/BPC.
By solving the t2 problem they have shown it was only willingness to do so that is the problem.
4 years of headaches for basically every player because they can't solve this problem.
Put a tag on the Originals like T2 only color it blue.
Its easy to differntiate between tech1 and 2 items as they are different things, BPO's and BPCs are the same items with different number in the runs field and are linked to the same image
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Jarjar
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.23 09:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mortania I call BS on the lag claim anymore.
They found a way for the T2 stuff to differentiate, they can figure it out for BPO/BPC.
By solving the t2 problem they have shown it was only willingness to do so that is the problem.
4 years of headaches for basically every player because they can't solve this problem.
Put a tag on the Originals like T2 only color it blue.
220mm Vulcan Autocannon II Blueprint 425mm Railgun I Blueprint Stabber Blueprint
Can you, from the above, tell which are Tech II? I think so. Can you tell which are originals? Didn't think so.
Please, search and read the masses of good explanations why this is hard to do if you don't believe me and everybody else who already replied here...
"In Communist China ISK buys YOU!!" - random bio |
Moraguth
Amarr Rangers
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Posted - 2007.03.23 14:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mortania I call BS on the lag claim anymore.
They found a way for the T2 stuff to differentiate, they can figure it out for BPO/BPC.
By solving the t2 problem they have shown it was only willingness to do so that is the problem.
4 years of headaches for basically every player because they can't solve this problem.
Put a tag on the Originals like T2 only color it blue.
The Lag is BS. Please, read what I wrote above. They didn't "solve" the T2 problem, they hard coded those pictures in when they first made T2 (which was a pretty long time after the game originally came out)
good game |
Okkie2
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Posted - 2007.03.23 15:33:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Okkie2 on 23/03/2007 15:31:04
Originally by: Moraguth
Originally by: Mortania I call BS on the lag claim anymore.
They found a way for the T2 stuff to differentiate, they can figure it out for BPO/BPC.
By solving the t2 problem they have shown it was only willingness to do so that is the problem.
4 years of headaches for basically every player because they can't solve this problem.
Put a tag on the Originals like T2 only color it blue.
The Lag is BS. Please, read what I wrote above. They didn't "solve" the T2 problem, they hard coded those pictures in when they first made T2 (which was a pretty long time after the game originally came out)
What you wrote is completely different from the BPO/BPC problem. Introducing a new item with a new icon and new stats is just adding a new item. For BPC/BPO's they would need to check each and every BP in hangars, factory's etc, replace the BPO's with a new item (different color, same stats). That's a lot of BP's to check (almost every item ingame has a BPC/BPO).
What a DEV in one of the many previous threads about this issue wrote is it is possible to solve it, but it will take too much time and becuase it's not a big problem a lot of better things will go first.
nm, i read your post wrong and thought you were the same as the one you quoted
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Liliane Woodhead
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Posted - 2007.03.23 16:03:00 -
[24]
The client does this magic image overlay with the Tech 2. You have to do it on your own when you are working with the icon sets provided by CCP.
The server differentiates between BPC and BPO. You see this when you go to the science tab and sort the print by Copy or Original. So it is doable :P
I have no clue about how it works ... but it works, without lag.
There is no reason to cough here in such a speech. we only want to make our life easier. There are other things that should be fixed first Let's move on.
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Tamik
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Posted - 2007.03.23 16:31:00 -
[25]
When you do show info on a blueprint, i'm assuming that the information displayed is retrieved from the server. If so, it would generate lag to check if the BP is copy or original, as when the your item hangar contents are displayed it would still have to check back to the server to see what each BP was.
If that information is held client side, then it wouldn't be a problem and be fairly easy to do.
I'm a developer myself, but without knowing exactly how the processes work, all we can do is speculate and assume :)
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Jarjar
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.23 19:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Liliane Woodhead
The server differentiates between BPC and BPO. You see this when you go to the science tab and sort the print by Copy or Original. So it is doable :P
I have no clue about how it works ... but it works, without lag.
There is no reason to cough here in such a speech. we only want to make our life easier. There are other things that should be fixed first Let's move on.
Yeah, but when you go to that tab, it actually loads the info. To make this work for hangars, it'd need to query the server for *all* blueprints at the station *every* time you open the hangar.
"In Communist China ISK buys YOU!!" - random bio |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2007.03.23 19:24:00 -
[27]
Please, for the love of God, do *something* to differentiate BPCs and BPOs in hangars/equipment lists. My personal preference would be to make the run count visible on the BP icon, with BPOs having the infinity sign. This would not only differentiate them, but would also reduce the need to check info on BPCs every time to find a Caracal BPC that has three runs left...
A background color change would be acceptable, or a border color change, or a name change ('Stabber Blueprint' vs 'Stabber Bleuprint Copy'). Or ... well ... anything, really. The science and industry/blueprints screen can display run information, why not the hangar inventory? -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
Felysta Sandorn
Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A
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Posted - 2007.03.23 19:24:00 -
[28]
I think there whould be a special container for blueprints... The way I look at it, there should be like a 'Filing Cabinet' that you can buy to put everything in! This 'Filing Cabinet' would have loads of different sections for you to customise and sort your BPs in, or a certain preset order... For Example:
BluePrint Originals (20) Minmatar Ships (0) Amarr Ships (0) Gallente Ships (0) Caldari Ships (12) ORE Ships (0) Highslot Modules (0) Midslot Modules (7) Lowslot Modules (0) Ammo (1) Paradise Cruise Missile (1) Other (0) BluePrint Copies (72) Ships (30) Modules (20) Ammo (21) Components (0) Other (1)
Or however you want to arrange them... Then you don't need to make a new corp just to get the hangers! The Filing Cabinet would be able to contain say 1000 BPs (copies and originals), then you could have a library that can hold 10 Filing Cabinets...
Obviously these are just rough ideas, but it would let any manufacturer (read as: carebear) sort their BPs so much easier, and would reduce the number of 1-man corps by dozens!
Think about it...
Killing With Ease
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Draskuul Vrallis
Minmatar PoliCratton Technologies 5th Column
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Posted - 2007.03.23 20:11:00 -
[29]
Let's make it a little easier on CCP. How about this:
Make a BPO and a BPC two distinct object types with different names.
Right now a Siege Launcher I BPO is the same base object type as a BPC. When you pull up the individual record for YOUR copy you get ME, PE and number of runs. This is why, as it currently works, you can't have two different icons without impacting the database.
So create a new base object in the DB for each blueprint that defaults to infinite runs, new icon, and convert all BPOs to this new object type. The only additions to the database is a doubling of all blueprint base objects, and no impact on the individual player's objects.
Of course I'm making some assumptions about how they are handling objects internally, but I'm betting 99% sure I'm on track with how it's being done. _____________________
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Nymos
Fimbulvintr
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Posted - 2007.03.23 20:14:00 -
[30]
then why can the contract system mention if it's a copy or an original and not the hangar window? would be enough to see "copy/original" if in a mode that shows just text and no icons.
seriously, "can't be done because eve programming is ancient" doesn't help does it. neither does complaining, but the complaints are more justified tbh --
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