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Zhaine
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.23 00:37:00 -
[1]
On my missioning alt, in low sec.
Glad to know it can be done, that there's some risk and that I actually need to think while making moolah. . . Good to know that high end mission running is still in line with what Eve is about.
Would have been a nice fight with just the Pilgrim, 2 Stabbers and Hurricane (think I woulda gone down but there were no NPCs there and a PvE raven can hurt and tank), but unfortunately there was an Arazu damping me to the point of not being able to lock, once everything got ourside of 10km :(
It was entirely avoidable, but I've been running for so long without bothing to take any precautions that I got lazy. . . Ah well, wont be making that mistake again.
Fun stuff. . . So what's my point? That it's really not all that bad. . . Having that risk there makes it so much more interesting than the dull monotony that missions are. It's cool to have to think. . . That's about it.
I doubt it, but maybe I've opened some eye's. . . - - - - - - - - - -
Give this a read. |
Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2007.03.23 05:21:00 -
[2]
I don't think the question is whether it is acceptable to be scanned down, but whether losing a billion ISK ship every once in a while is worth the meager gains from moving to lowsec.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2007.03.23 06:14:00 -
[3]
Just out of curiosity ... what part of having a random chance of losing your ship without even a fighting chance adds even a modicum of interest to the game? If this is fun to you, might I suggest rolling percentile dice during each mission, and any time you roll double zeroes, just self destruct your ship. The interest value should be equivalent. -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.03.23 06:36:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Zhaine
It was entirely avoidable, but I've been running for so long without bothing to take any precautions that I got lazy. . . Ah well, wont be making that mistake again.
Fun stuff. . . So what's my point? That it's really not all that bad. . . Having that risk there makes it so much more interesting than the dull monotony that missions are. It's cool to have to think. . . That's about it.
It's nice to see that kind of attitude about it, rather than the some other kinds we tend to get in this forum. I totally agree with you that danger from other players is what keeeps missions entertaining.
I'm curious though, what would you have done differently if you'd been taking precautions? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr Navy Runners
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Posted - 2007.03.23 08:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame I don't think the question is whether it is acceptable to be scanned down, but whether losing a billion ISK ship every once in a while is worth the meager gains from moving to lowsec.
You don't have to fly a faction battleship, a t2 fit on a regular battleship will do as well. Don't get me wrong, I fly a very expensive faction ship myself, but not into low sec. I've been thinking about moving to low sec, but certainly not in the Nightmare.
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Ishana
Minmatar The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion
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Posted - 2007.03.23 09:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ishana on 23/03/2007 09:06:20
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
I'm curious though, what would you have done differently if you'd been taking precautions?
-scanning for probes and ships within 5au every few minutes would help allot. -moving away from the warp in beacon. -dropping a can at the beacon (the can is for recon cruisers that warp in, so they uncloak) -keeping an eye out for pirate types in local chat.
if you do all that 99% of the time the pirates actually try to catch you, you will get away. Carebears are just to lazy really... _________________________________________________________
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2007.03.23 09:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske I'm curious though, what would you have done differently if you'd been taking precautions?
As Ishana wrote, pay attention to your surroundings. I do:
- fly a rather cheap ship (T2 fitted Domi, cheap compared to the billion ISK faction sinks) - ALWAYS watch local - know the people who usually frequent the system - if someone is in system I do not trust I start scanning - I try to move away from the warp-in point, but on most missions that is not possible with the Domi
I doubt dropping a can at warp-in will help though, as there is some scatter while warping.
If a pirate who is known to use probes is in local I think twice if I want to run missions - I run them for fun, not to watch over my shoulder all the time.
So far this has served me pretty well.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Lrrp
Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange
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Posted - 2007.03.23 12:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame I don't think the question is whether it is acceptable to be scanned down, but whether losing a billion ISK ship every once in a while is worth the meager gains from moving to lowsec.
Only T2 fitting on my ships may be a shield booster. 150 mil might be all I lose less insurance
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Elain Reverse
Caldari Shokei
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Posted - 2007.03.23 15:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame I don't think the question is whether it is acceptable to be scanned down, but whether losing a billion ISK ship every once in a while is worth the meager gains from moving to lowsec.
You don't have to fly a faction battleship, a t2 fit on a regular battleship will do as well. Don't get me wrong, I fly a very expensive faction ship myself, but not into low sec. I've been thinking about moving to low sec, but certainly not in the Nightmare.
Try fly Angel Extra Bonus with regular t2 fited raven. Also with better stuff there is less chance to loose ship (ie permaboost raven). Also Faction ships alow you to do misstion about 20% faster, why you would do mission 2h (with risk loosing spip, especialy after last "mission improvements")when you can do it faster and safer and can even salvage wrecks after mission whitch will disappear other way.
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Dr Takiyoma
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Posted - 2007.03.23 15:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Elain Reverse
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame I don't think the question is whether it is acceptable to be scanned down, but whether losing a billion ISK ship every once in a while is worth the meager gains from moving to lowsec.
You don't have to fly a faction battleship, a t2 fit on a regular battleship will do as well. Don't get me wrong, I fly a very expensive faction ship myself, but not into low sec. I've been thinking about moving to low sec, but certainly not in the Nightmare.
Try fly Angel Extra Bonus with regular t2 fited raven. Also with better stuff there is less chance to loose ship (ie permaboost raven). Also Faction ships alow you to do misstion about 20% faster, why you would do mission 2h (with risk loosing spip, especialy after last "mission improvements")when you can do it faster and safer and can even salvage wrecks after mission whitch will disappear other way.
Angel bonus room is just that --- a Bonus, it doesnt need to be done to complete the mission, as for the extra time running the mission in a t2 fit BS, the LP and payouts are alot higher in low sec which im sure more than makes up for the extra time it takes to run them.
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Zhaine
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.23 17:11:00 -
[11]
Staying aligned 100% of the time, watching local and scanning for probes either all the time or when anything remotely dodgy looking is on local should keep you very, very safe indeed. Oh and don't use drones (Raven is fine without them on all but Enemies abound which I just turn down anyway, though I admit this somewhat screws with Domi users to the point of serious unfairness).
There's other stuff I used to do that not many people have thought of and that would be less effective if it's common knowledge, but that keeps me so close to 100% safe that risk can pretty much be ignored. Obviously I'm not gonna shove that here but it's hardly genius type tactics. . . Just requires a little effort and patience. . . - - - - - - - - - -
Give this a read. |
Borasao
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Posted - 2007.03.23 18:16:00 -
[12]
Glad you enjoy it (actually, I don't care one whit whether you enjoy it or not). I don't and that's all that matters when I play.
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Leandro Salazar
Bravehearts Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.23 23:04:00 -
[13]
Well a guy from a pirate corp admitting that he doesn't mind losing his alts mission ride to pirates really does not say much, does it? You just run those missions to generate cash and probably don't care about your ships at all. Others run those missions as a way of life and their ships are their babies. You just can't compare totally different people, and thus you won't open anyones eyes. It is kinda like telling a stamp collector that if you don't mind losing a standard 1$ stamp, why should he mind losing his blue penny. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2007.03.23 23:34:00 -
[14]
I actually didn't mean a faction ship when I said "a billion", even a 100 mil BS can get on up there with some expensive modules. If you're talking a CNR you're looking at maybe 1.5 bil.
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Zhaine
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.24 01:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Borasao Glad you enjoy it (actually, I don't care one whit whether you enjoy it or not). I don't and that's all that matters when I play.
Oh for sure. . . And I'm not telling anyone how to play, and neither did I "enjoy" it hugely at the time, despite the fact that it and the potential for it to happen (yes, TO me) makes the game and specifically low sec mission running much more enjoyable. I'm just saying that PvP loss, and even getting ganked in a mission is:
1) Not Neccessarily as bad as some people without any experience (which I'm not saying you are) think it is
and
2) Almost totally avoidable with a little effort.
And also more controversially I'm saying that I'm glad that the potentially the most profitable way of missioning carries some risk for those, like I was, that are lazy.
And to the Xelas dude: While we're a corp that pirates, we're not pirates. You should probably know what and where we are actually - - - - - - - - - -
Give this a read. |
Wankaz
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Posted - 2007.03.24 03:03:00 -
[16]
glad to know`? sorry.. you didnt know? and its cool to think. wow...
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.03.24 10:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Zhaine Would have been a nice fight with just the Pilgrim, 2 Stabbers and Hurricane (think I woulda gone down but there were no NPCs there and a PvE raven can hurt and tank), but unfortunately there was an Arazu damping me to the point of not being able to lock, once everything got ourside of 10km :(
This is actually the main point of this post, whether the OP knows it or not....
The gank squad wouldn't have ATTACKED if they hadn't been sure of winning, which the Arazu and Pilgrim made certain.
It doesn't matter how much CCP does in making PvE'ers able to 'resist' attackers. In the end it comes down to one crusial point: "The Attacker chooses when to attack." That the advantage the attacker has, and its all he'll ever need.
THIS is the reason why trying to force high-sec mission runners to low-sec will fail, because unless the attacker is completely prevented from attacking, or the defender given a clear, timely warning (i.e. giving him enough time to deal with NPC scramblers and warp out), the attackers WILL win, no matter what the defender or CCP does.
For the people saying stupid things like 'watch local', 'keep a scanner window active', 'scan for probes'.... Neither of these will work in a busy missioning system. They work in low-sec NOW because nobody but gankers really go there....
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Gamesguy
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.03.24 22:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Zhaine Would have been a nice fight with just the Pilgrim, 2 Stabbers and Hurricane (think I woulda gone down but there were no NPCs there and a PvE raven can hurt and tank), but unfortunately there was an Arazu damping me to the point of not being able to lock, once everything got ourside of 10km :(
This is actually the main point of this post, whether the OP knows it or not....
The gank squad wouldn't have ATTACKED if they hadn't been sure of winning, which the Arazu and Pilgrim made certain.
It doesn't matter how much CCP does in making PvE'ers able to 'resist' attackers. In the end it comes down to one crusial point: "The Attacker chooses when to attack." That the advantage the attacker has, and its all he'll ever need.
THIS is the reason why trying to force high-sec mission runners to low-sec will fail, because unless the attacker is completely prevented from attacking, or the defender given a clear, timely warning (i.e. giving him enough time to deal with NPC scramblers and warp out), the attackers WILL win, no matter what the defender or CCP does.
For the people saying stupid things like 'watch local', 'keep a scanner window active', 'scan for probes'.... Neither of these will work in a busy missioning system. They work in low-sec NOW because nobody but gankers really go there....
You could, you know, actively guard your space and kill pirates? There are already quite a few of these kind of systems already where a bunch of carebears band together and blob pirates till they give up.
No one gives a **** about sec status, since you get so much for missioning, and any half decent pirate would be outlaw anyways.
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Sadist
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.24 23:52:00 -
[19]
You could keep a couple cloaked recons on the mission yourself, so when the pirates attack the raven, they'll be in for a nasty surprise. тттттттттттт
VIP member of the [23]
Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
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Zhaine
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.25 00:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Zhaine Would have been a nice fight with just the Pilgrim, 2 Stabbers and Hurricane (think I woulda gone down but there were no NPCs there and a PvE raven can hurt and tank), but unfortunately there was an Arazu damping me to the point of not being able to lock, once everything got ourside of 10km :(
This is actually the main point of this post, whether the OP knows it or not....
The gank squad wouldn't have ATTACKED if they hadn't been sure of winning, which the Arazu and Pilgrim made certain.
It doesn't matter how much CCP does in making PvE'ers able to 'resist' attackers. In the end it comes down to one crusial point: "The Attacker chooses when to attack." That the advantage the attacker has, and its all he'll ever need.
THIS is the reason why trying to force high-sec mission runners to low-sec will fail, because unless the attacker is completely prevented from attacking, or the defender given a clear, timely warning (i.e. giving him enough time to deal with NPC scramblers and warp out), the attackers WILL win, no matter what the defender or CCP does.
For the people saying stupid things like 'watch local', 'keep a scanner window active', 'scan for probes'.... Neither of these will work in a busy missioning system. They work in low-sec NOW because nobody but gankers really go there....
Clueeeeeeeeeless. Don't know how else to reply to that one.
And yea Sadist when Zhaine and some corp mates are not so tied up with "other things" traps will be teh fun :) - - - - - - - - - -
Give this a read. |
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Tommy Vercetti
Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.25 10:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well a guy from a pirate corp admitting that he doesn't mind losing his alts mission ride to pirates really does not say much, does it? You just run those missions to generate cash and probably don't care about your ships at all. Others run those missions as a way of life and their ships are their babies.
Their babies? nice little emo spin you put on it, and quite frankly laughable. Running missions somehow extends the parental emotions you have over your ship more than any other profession?
Originally by: Pestillence
It's a game where we fly around in eggs with tubes up our arses. If I want reality I'll go outside.
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Dzajic
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.25 11:42:00 -
[22]
I dont know why is that difficult to understand. Even with no CNR mission blitzing intentions, you still need good named stuff to be ANY good at missions. Its not the problem with mission runners, its that missions demand expansive stuff. And a runner risks it all to a gang in basic t1 fits. Pirates are the last people who should talk about risk/reward. Unless you run into an angry alliance roaming gang, you are perfectly safe. You choose your engagements, your victims have none of those options.
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Zhaine
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.25 16:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dzajic I dont know why is that difficult to understand. Even with no CNR mission blitzing intentions, you still need good named stuff to be ANY good at missions. Its not the problem with mission runners, its that missions demand expansive stuff. And a runner risks it all to a gang in basic t1 fits. Pirates are the last people who should talk about risk/reward. Unless you run into an angry alliance roaming gang, you are perfectly safe. You choose your engagements, your victims have none of those options.
Unless you're stupid like I was, you (as a mission runner) are at far less risk than a pirate gang. . . - - - - - - - - - -
Give this a read. |
Leandro Salazar
Bravehearts Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.25 18:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zhaine
Originally by: Dzajic I dont know why is that difficult to understand. Even with no CNR mission blitzing intentions, you still need good named stuff to be ANY good at missions. Its not the problem with mission runners, its that missions demand expansive stuff. And a runner risks it all to a gang in basic t1 fits. Pirates are the last people who should talk about risk/reward. Unless you run into an angry alliance roaming gang, you are perfectly safe. You choose your engagements, your victims have none of those options.
Unless you're stupid like I was, you (as a mission runner) are at far less risk than a pirate gang. . .
Just not true. A pirate gang that takes the neccessary precautions (like, scouting) has about the same chance of getting spanked as a mission runner taking the neccessary precautions. All the while risking MUCH less in value. And if you now say 'But scouting is no fun so we don't do it and thus are much more at risk!' I will tell you that running missions in total anti-pvp mode is even less fun and actually reduces the isk/time gained possibly below that of mining. Yet we are supposed to take these measures, and pirates are not, for the same risk equation? I think not. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.03.25 23:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Zhaine Would have been a nice fight with just the Pilgrim, 2 Stabbers and Hurricane (think I woulda gone down but there were no NPCs there and a PvE raven can hurt and tank), but unfortunately there was an Arazu damping me to the point of not being able to lock, once everything got ourside of 10km :(
This is actually the main point of this post, whether the OP knows it or not....
The gank squad wouldn't have ATTACKED if they hadn't been sure of winning, which the Arazu and Pilgrim made certain.
It doesn't matter how much CCP does in making PvE'ers able to 'resist' attackers. In the end it comes down to one crusial point: "The Attacker chooses when to attack." That the advantage the attacker has, and its all he'll ever need.
THIS is the reason why trying to force high-sec mission runners to low-sec will fail, because unless the attacker is completely prevented from attacking, or the defender given a clear, timely warning (i.e. giving him enough time to deal with NPC scramblers and warp out), the attackers WILL win, no matter what the defender or CCP does.
For the people saying stupid things like 'watch local', 'keep a scanner window active', 'scan for probes'.... Neither of these will work in a busy missioning system. They work in low-sec NOW because nobody but gankers really go there....
No doubt, the attackers will have an overwhelming advantage if they do their job properly and don't screw up. Of course, the way you word it you make it sound like Cause / Effect is simply "Run a mission in LowSec = Death".
When actually all of those "stupid things" people recommend drastically cut down on your chance of facing that unwinnable battle. Guess who get's ganked most of the time? The people running missions in busy systems, not getting familiar with local, not scanning for probes...
Cause / Effect is "Run missions in LowSec + At the wrong place and time + Letting your guard down = Eventual Death." * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Tommy Vercetti
Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.26 02:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I will tell you that running missions in total anti-pvp mode is even less fun and actually reduces the isk/time gained possibly below that of mining. Yet we are supposed to take these measures, and pirates are not, for the same risk equation? I think not.
What measures are you taking that pirates aren't? Mission runners couldn't find their own arsecheeks with a scanner, a scanner is a pirates best friend. Assesing local for unfriendlies is something mission runners are even worse at.
As for your risk equation, I'm assuming your talking about one mission ship and say 3-4 pirate gang? Well yes 3-4 ships have a good chance to take down a bigger, badder target no matter what they are doing. If you call in reinforcements to help you when your being attacked in a mission, I'm sure you will be victorious. Hold up though, that might require some thought and communication, 2 things I definitely don't use when running missions
Originally by: Pestillence
It's a game where we fly around in eggs with tubes up our arses. If I want reality I'll go outside.
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Yagsi Sadit
Iugum Noctis
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Posted - 2007.03.26 05:26:00 -
[27]
Tommy, using local doesn't help much when there are always negs in local. Using the scanner doesn't help much when negs are either docked or cloaked while probing. Calling for backup does not help much when others do not arrive in time to see anything but your ship's carcass.
Before you argue about the last point, you have to be pretty sucky pirates if 3-4 of you can't take out a single ship before help arrives. Keep in mind that this single ship will have a PvE setup on and you can know the ship type ahead of time.
I'm not whining that probing needs to be fixed or anything, just trying to show that the issue is not as one-sided as some claim. I would like to see cloaked ships vincible, though.
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2007.03.26 06:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sadist You could keep a couple cloaked recons on the mission yourself, so when the pirates attack the raven, they'll be in for a nasty surprise.
Or just have all three pilots move to highsec and run missions for triple the profit? Thats the thing here, the gains for going down to riskytown are miniscule, and if you take some sort of countermeasure, there goes the gains altogether.
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Zhaine
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.26 22:17:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
Originally by: Sadist You could keep a couple cloaked recons on the mission yourself, so when the pirates attack the raven, they'll be in for a nasty surprise.
Or just have all three pilots move to highsec and run missions for triple the profit? Thats the thing here, the gains for going down to riskytown are miniscule, and if you take some sort of countermeasure, there goes the gains altogether.
Meh, that's just about fun (what Sadist said). You can take precautions that require effort but don't make missions take much longer. - - - - - - - - - -
Give this a read. |
Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.03.26 22:59:00 -
[30]
its very difficult to scan down someone in deadspace. i was mining in a hidden belt in my hulk, and someone tried to probe me for about 10 min, then gave up. i wasnt too worred, as i was far from the warp in point, mwds dont work, and cloaks dont work due to the dust cloud.
if you can move from the warp in point, you should always be fine, simply due to the mwds not working.
there is some discussion that can be had about risk/reward in low sec tho....doesnt seem worth it to me.
Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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