Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Marcus Binchiette
Pyrocraft
4
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 01:44:08 -
[1] - Quote
The following message was sent in response to a dispute which occurred between the Solarian Federation (a 3 year old corporation with 57 members) and Pyrocraft (a 3 month old corporation with 6 members).
The following is an email sent by myself. Which relates to events occurring in the Neziel. I cannot post chat logs, or kill feeds, due to the forum rules. But I will instead allow readers to do their own research.
Quote:Hello _____,
I am a member of Pyrocraft Corporation have the assigned responsibility of conducting defence operations to protect our interests. I have been following recent events and monitoring your interactions with our corporation members. In particular, _______ __________, who's ship I believe you ganked and destroyed, unprovoked, while mining in Neziel. With a total estimated loss of 30 Million ISK.
I understand, from a copy of your communications, that you did this to teach our corporation member a, GÇ£life lessonGÇ¥, in EVE online. As, ______GÇÖs ship was not properly fitted for a lowsec mining operation, he was not (as you said) aligned to a warp-able object. While we do our best to train less experienced Corp members, you must understand that new players will make these mistakes from time to time. I also noted that you generously donated 10 Million ISK after this.
I also understand that a kill right was made available against you GÇô and this was in response to your illegal aggression. This kill right was subsequently activated and I believe you lost an Armageddon class Battleship. With a total cost of 278 Million ISK, in Neziel.
Now I should carefully point out that kill rights are awarded on the basis of having received illegal aggression. This is a natural game mechanic and there is nothing inherently wrong about activating a kill right GÇô and this is not mitigated by the 10 Million ISK donated (which was only one third of ______'s actual losses). The activation of a kill right was a natural consequence of your actions. As a seasoned player, I would have expected that you would understand this. I also noted that Neziel (the system where your Armageddon was destroyed) is a low sec system GÇô where that aggression is not only likely, but, should be expected. Frankly, only an idiot would take a 278 Million ship into a low sec system knowing that they had a kill right against then and were not prepared to lose the ship. If you are prepared to advocate the, GÇ£allGÇÖs fair in love and warGÇ¥, line then you truly have no business dictating to other players how they should assign their kill rights.
You have no recourse with ______'s, or with our corporation, and frankly your own losses are your own fault. So as someone who is so intent on teaching others, GÇ£life lessonsGÇ¥, in EVE Online I feel that I must teach you one as well. DonGÇÖt fly what you canGÇÖt afford to lose GÇô and donGÇÖt kill our mining ships if you want to avoid getting kill rights activated against you.
Now since writing the above. I have been informed by our CEO that the 500 Million ISK which you demanded was paid. Frankly, I donGÇÖt think very much of you GÇô and I need to make clear that this payment was against my own judgement. Particularly considering that figure was more than your actual losses. I also need to point out that any other kill rights _______ has against your Corp members are still publicly available. I would have made the counter proposal that ______'s withdraw public access to those kill rights in return for a lesser ISK figure. Perhaps something closer to your actual losses.
Regards,
Marcus
Please discuss. I'd like to know if this sort of thing happens very often, and potentially how this could have been handled differently. Personally, I don't think very much of someone who is prepared to gank other players; but will then cry when he looses a Battleship. |
Morgan Agrivar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
584
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 03:43:20 -
[2] - Quote
Grow a pair and fight back.
You never know, you just might like it...
YC 117 New Eden Capsuleer's Writing Contest Submission - "Heartache"
|
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
120
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 03:57:29 -
[3] - Quote
Quote: Although this was probably may not have been clear in the context, the above 500 Million ISK was a ransom demand to avoid Wardec. Paying 500M to avoid a wardec is money thrown in the trash and a weak move from your CEO, it's the same thing as keeping out the game during the wardec period.
In addition to Morgan Agrivar, if you don't want pew, you can always continue your activities by using a scout, something easy since it's not a one-man corp, keep aware of the local and the overview, align, don't autopilot, spy the other corp, harass them, use ECMs (including drones) to **** them off, using Covops to **** them off even more and so on. |
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY Domestic Disturbance
339
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 04:12:15 -
[4] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
Please discuss. I'd like to know if this sort of thing happens very often, and potentially how this could have been handled differently. Although this was probably may not have been clear in the context, the above 500 Million ISK was a ransom demand to avoid Wardec.
Personally, I don't think very much of someone who is prepared to gank other players; but will then cry when he looses a Battleship. I also do seriously hope that there is no 'honourable' objections to victims making their kill rights publicly available among the EVE community. As I do intend to make these and any future kill rights, obtained by our corporation members, publicly available.
They only requested that because they thought that they could milk you out of isk. And you paid it.
Hes in lowsec, in a battleship, so a killright is the least of his worries, and he clearly doesn't care about the killright either. I don't think you understand how Lowsec mechanics work. People shoot each other frequently there. Killrights in lowsec are like killrights on gankers in hisec, it doesn't matter because people can and are allowed to aggress the one with the killrights with little to no consequences.
Whenever I fight in lowsec, I don't look around for killrights. Never have, never will, because theres no need to.
He cries because he thinks itll get him isk. Which it did. So good for him on milking the cows till they go dry. |
Marcus Binchiette
Pyrocraft
5
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 08:41:15 -
[5] - Quote
Thank you for your comments. I was not consulted about the ransom payment being made and this was a breakdown between myself and my CEO. There was a 'difference of opinion' between myself and the CEO. A conversation was had, and hopefully she now has a much better understanding on how to deal with this in future.
While I am not afraid of fighting - and was rather looking to this fight. It must also be said that skill counts for a lot in this game, and skill = training time. The simple fact is that someone piloting a tech 1 ship, which tech 1 fittings and only 3 months worth of skill points cannot achieve the same raw combat effectiveness as a larger fleet. Especially one consisting of tech II fittings, faction warships, and several years worth of skill points on their characters.
This is not a fight which we could have won by conventional means. |
Morgan Agrivar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
584
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 12:02:04 -
[6] - Quote
Paying a ransom gets you no respect here in Eve Online.
Shoving that ransom down his throat does...
YC 117 New Eden Capsuleer's Writing Contest Submission - "Heartache"
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18654
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 12:53:29 -
[7] - Quote
Question: will you write us lengthy amusing correspondence like this if we shoot you ?
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agents
Praposal:Un-F**k NPC Corps
=]|[=
|
Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1816
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 14:10:22 -
[8] - Quote
I'll come fight for yea for free if I get lengthy write ups like this!!!
MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3167
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 15:04:08 -
[9] - Quote
So you say you pay ransoms to avoid wardecs hey...
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
|
Marcus Binchiette
Pyrocraft
5
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 15:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Question: will you write us lengthy amusing correspondence like this if we shoot you ?
LOL no. I've been blown out of the water several times before, and I have no problem with this. I've also destroyed others, and have no problem with this as well. I might be new, but, I do understand how this game is played.
I do understand that I'm likely to be shot on sight, and I don't take it personally. I do however have a problem with players who are happy to do this; but then will cry foul when they get their expensive ship blown up, on account of a public kill right - and in turn blame the person who made the kill right available. IMO if someone's prepared to play the pirated, then, good for them; but they should be prepared to accept everything that goes with it. Failure to do this demonstrates a lack of coherency. I have no respect for this sort of person.
The fact of the matter is that a 30 Million ship was traded for the destruction of a much more expensive one. The stupid fool was butt hurt because be was outplayed by a noob. I might have actually laughed at what happened, had it not been for our CEO caving to their ridiculous demands. Not only because of that, but, also because we have peace - and in my current state of mind that is the last thing I want :/ |
|
Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1819
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 15:27:31 -
[11] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Question: will you write us lengthy amusing correspondence like this if we shoot you ? LOL no. I've been blown out of the water several times before, and I have no problem with this. I've also destroyed others, and have no problem with this as well. I might be new, but, I do understand how this game is played. I do understand that I'm likely to be shot on sight, and I don't take it personally. I do however have a problem with players who are happy to do this; but then will cry foul when they get their expensive ship blown up, on account of a public kill right - and in turn blame the person who made the kill right available. IMO if someone's prepared to play the pirated, then, good for them; but they should be prepared to accept everything that goes with it. Failure to do this demonstrates a lack of coherency. I have no respect for this sort of person. The fact of the matter is that a 30 Million ship was traded for the destruction of a much more expensive one. The stupid fool was butt hurt because be was outplayed by a noob. I might have actually laughed at what happened, had it not been for our CEO caving to their ridiculous demands. Not only because of that, but, also because we have peace - and in my current state of mind that is the last thing I want :/ If you want peace take it by force only way you'll be sure it lasts!
MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
|
Marcus Binchiette
Pyrocraft
5
|
Posted - 2016.10.18 07:44:13 -
[12] - Quote
Saeger1737 wrote:I'll come fight for yea for free if I get lengthy write ups like this!!!
Missed this: But yea... Mate, if you come and fight for me I'll write you a bloody good obituary |
Areen Sassel
142
|
Posted - 2016.10.18 14:50:41 -
[13] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote: I do understand that I'm likely to be shot on sight, and I don't take it personally. I do however have a problem with players who are happy to do this; but then will cry foul when they get their expensive ship blown up, on account of a public kill right - and in turn blame the person who made the kill right available.
Read what's being written. If it was blown up in lowsec as you say, it wasn't because of the killright. |
General Shogun
Free Candy Get In The Van Free Candy Get In The Van Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2016.10.18 15:34:19 -
[14] - Quote
1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not be wardecced. 2) You publically post internal communications. 3 ) You repeatedly state disagreement with your CEO in a forum setting.
Simply, wow. |
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY Domestic Disturbance
341
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 01:45:06 -
[15] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Thank you for your comments. I was not consulted about the ransom payment being made and this was a breakdown between myself and my CEO. There was a 'difference of opinion' between myself and the CEO. A conversation was had, and hopefully she now has a much better understanding on how to deal with this in future. While I am not afraid of fighting - and was rather looking to this fight. It must also be said that skill counts for a lot in this game, and skill = training time. The simple fact is that someone piloting a tech 1 ship, which tech 1 fittings and only 3 months worth of skill points cannot achieve the same raw combat effectiveness as a larger fleet. Especially one consisting of tech II fittings, faction warships, and several years worth of skill points on their characters. This is not a fight which we could have won by conventional means. Solonius Rex wrote:He cries because he thinks itll get him isk. Which it did. So good for him on milking the cows till they go dry. ... And yes he did milk the cow dry. Well and truly. It's probably been some time since you first started out. But for a new player 500 Million ISK and represents a huge investment in game time. So I very much doubt that this persons success will be long lived. Basically, there are a number of people in this corp who are about ready to totally **** him up. This will be very personal.
First off, no. Skill does not equal training time. Seriously, ask that question in the New Citizens QnA section of the forums, and multiple people will give you long forum posts as to how you are wrong.
Secondly, if you cannot afford 500 mill, then you really shouldn't be running a corporation. The fact that making a new corp takes only 1 mill and change is what I hate about the system, it should cost atleast 300-400 mill tbh, but that's a discussion for another day.
Thirdly, the fact that you don't know this about your CEO makes me sad for you.
|
Marcus Binchiette
Pyrocraft
5
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 04:38:02 -
[16] - Quote
General Shogun wrote:1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced. 2) You publically post internal communications. 3 ) You repeatedly state disagreement with your CEO in a forum setting. Simply, wow.
1) We don't 2) The communications posted were external 3) This was done to emphasise point 1. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27003
|
Posted - 2016.10.21 17:31:41 -
[17] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:General Shogun wrote:1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced. 1) We don't. No? Your original post suggests otherwise
From that post Quote:I have been informed by our CEO that the 500 Million ISK which you demanded was paid. What was this payment for if not a ransom.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY Domestic Disturbance
343
|
Posted - 2016.10.21 21:46:14 -
[18] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:General Shogun wrote:1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced. 2) You publically post internal communications. 3 ) You repeatedly state disagreement with your CEO in a forum setting. Simply, wow. 1) We don't. 2) The communications posted were external 3) Fair point. Though this was done as a courtesy to those who answered the original question. Areen Sassel wrote:Read what's being written. If it was blown up in lowsec as you say, it wasn't because of the killright. 4) That he might have been less than honest doesn't change my opinion.
1). You kinda did. 2). You shouldnt air out your dirty laundry in public. 3). Ditto above. 4). Honesty in Eve is like the gold at the end of the rainbow. It might exist, but dont expect to reach it. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1890
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 00:04:25 -
[19] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:So you say you pay ransoms to avoid wardecs hey...
Why, hello there, OP.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Bait'er De'Outlier
Trans-Aerospace Industries
36
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 00:51:30 -
[20] - Quote
wardec avoidance for 500,000,000isk? I'll not wardec you for only 499,999,999isk... |
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3196
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 00:53:18 -
[21] - Quote
Bait'er De'Outlier wrote:wardec avoidance for 500,000,000isk? I'll not wardec you for only 499,999,999isk... 475,000,000 And I'll even throw in a how to not be taken advantage of guide to boot
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
|
Morgan Agrivar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
591
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 01:17:58 -
[22] - Quote
General Shogun wrote:1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced. 2) You publically post internal communications. 3 ) You repeatedly state disagreement with your CEO in a forum setting. Simply, wow. I always have disagreed with all of my CEOs because he was an idiot...uh, wait a minute...uh, nevermind. Don't read that...
YC 117 New Eden Capsuleer's Writing Contest Submission - "Heartache"
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3196
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 01:53:55 -
[23] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:General Shogun wrote:1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced. 2) You publically post internal communications. 3 ) You repeatedly state disagreement with your CEO in a forum setting. Simply, wow. I always have disagreed with all of my CEOs because he was an idiot...uh, wait a minute...uh, nevermind. Don't read that... The NPC corp bit is quite amusing to go with that
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
|
Marcus Binchiette
Pyrocraft
5
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 16:08:37 -
[24] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Marcus Binchiette wrote:General Shogun wrote:1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced. 1) We don't. No? Your original post suggests otherwise From that post
You fail at English. The fact that someone might have done something in the past does not mean that they do do, or will do that same thing in the present of future. You were asking about what we will do... What we have done in the past has no bearing on this.
There is also no point continuing this further. My only intention here was to ask for advice in dealing with a negotiation - and any information shared by me was only done so that that advice could be informed. Further conversation was had, new agreements were made, and lessons were learnt. We have all moved on and this is ancient history. Thank you. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27010
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 00:19:53 -
[25] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:You fail at English. I fail at many things, English is not amongst them; what you should have said is "We don't, anymore"
Quote:That someone might have done something in the past does not mean that they do do, or will do that same thing in the present of future. Regardless, there is the scent of blood in the water. That your CEO has paid a ransom in the past increases the chances that some mercs will try their hand at getting him/her to pay another at some time in the future. I can guarantee your post got your corp added to more than one list of future playmates.
You can't say "we don't pay wardec ransoms", after just paying one, it's like saying a government saying that they don't negotiate with terrorists, after just negotiating with terrorists
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3203
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 00:49:36 -
[26] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Marcus Binchiette wrote:You fail at English. I fail at many things, English is not amongst them; what you should have said is "We don't, anymore" Quote:That someone might have done something in the past does not mean that they do do, or will do that same thing in the present of future. Regardless, there is the scent of blood in the water. That your CEO has paid a ransom in the past increases the chances that some mercs will try their hand at getting him/her to pay another at some time in the future. I can guarantee your post got your corp added to more than one list of future playmates. You can't say "we don't pay wardec ransoms", after just paying one, it's like saying a government saying that they don't negotiate with terrorists, after just negotiating with terrorists Threads like this are bad for me. They make me wanna resub a bunch of accounts
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
|
Morgan Agrivar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
595
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 02:13:28 -
[27] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Morgan Agrivar wrote:General Shogun wrote:1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced. 2) You publically post internal communications. 3 ) You repeatedly state disagreement with your CEO in a forum setting. Simply, wow. I always have disagreed with all of my CEOs because he was an idiot...uh, wait a minute...uh, nevermind. Don't read that... The NPC corp bit is quite amusing to go with that He is. He won't let me wardec this guy.
YC 117 New Eden Capsuleer's Writing Contest Submission - "Heartache"
|
Marcus Binchiette
Pyrocraft
5
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 03:38:48 -
[28] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Marcus Binchiette wrote:You fail at English. I fail at many things, English is not amongst them; what you should have said is "We don't, anymore"
The 'anymore' is superfluous. I do not address that precisely because I am emphasising how utterly unimportant it is... Futhermore, which part of, "this conversation is over", do you not understand? If you came to knit-pick you should have done so sooner while this conversation was being had.
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3203
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 03:43:34 -
[29] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Marcus Binchiette wrote:You fail at English. I fail at many things, English is not amongst them; what you should have said is "We don't, anymore" The 'anymore' is superfluous. I do not address that precisely because I am emphasising how utterly unimportant it is... Futhermore, which part of, "this conversation is over", do you not understand? If you came to knit-pick you should have done so sooner while this conversation was being had. It isn't that unimportant tbh
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |