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Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
10
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Posted - 2011.12.24 19:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
"Its intended" seems like a poor excuse for CCP's volunteers wholesale replacing well documented, player built pages with pages with less content.
Add to this the inability for a player to expand upon a page to add content with references and any motivations major contributors might have had (recognition in the contributors section of the page) is gone.
Taking an example I am most familiar with:
The newLai Dai Corporation page which contains 4 references to various articles. CCP Ginger and CCP Abraxas are the most recent contributors, so we can assume the content is CCP authorized and official. Lastly the page is locked from editing.
Looking back at the old official Lai Dai Corporation (NPC corporation) page, we see some of the same information found in the new page, a data block & the corporation's logo not found on the new page, and a flag to an alternate user created page.
The alternate user created page was created by me and I get credit for the majority of the edits to the page.
Looking at the new page, it shows CCP Ginger & CCP Abraxas as the primary authors, except on closer inspection it appears they copy pasted the language from the user generated page.
In other words, I get no credit for volunteering my time and brainpower for pulling together the various sources of material to create the words shown and I am not allowed to add additional information to the new Lai Dai page to include useful information like links to all the ships classified as Lai Dai designs or a map showing were all of Lai Dai's stations are.
Players are not adding unverified material, if the material is referenced. CCP and its volunteers are wholesale copying player generated content for the new official content as my example above shows. Lai Dai Infinity Systems |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
106
|
Posted - 2011.12.24 20:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Dex Nederland wrote:"Its intended" seems like a poor excuse for CCP's volunteers wholesale replacing well documented, player built pages with pages with less content. Add to this the inability for a player to expand upon a page to add content with references and any motivations major contributors might have had (recognition in the contributors section of the page) is gone. Taking an example I am most familiar with: The newLai Dai Corporation page which contains 4 references to various articles. CCP Ginger and CCP Abraxas are the most recent contributors, so we can assume the content is CCP authorized and official. Lastly the page is locked from editing. Looking back at the old official Lai Dai Corporation (NPC corporation) page, we see some of the same information found in the new page, a data block & the corporation's logo not found on the new page, and a flag to an alternate user created page. The alternate user created page was created by me and I get credit for the majority of the edits to the page. Looking at the new page, it shows CCP Ginger & CCP Abraxas as the primary authors, except on closer inspection it appears they copy pasted the language from the user generated page. In other words, I get no credit for volunteering my time and brainpower for pulling together the various sources of material to create the words shown and I am not allowed to add additional information to the new Lai Dai page to include useful information like links to all the ships classified as Lai Dai designs or a map showing were all of Lai Dai's stations are. Players are not adding unverified material, if the material is referenced. CCP and its volunteers are wholesale copying player generated content for the new official content as my example above shows. This has already been identified as an issue by CCP and they will work on it when they get bach from the Christmas and New Years holidays.
Should be an easy search of the old Wiki for major contributers to articals and to identifing them in the text. Great work by CCP but bad timing to address issues quickly. |
Publius Valerius
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
6
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Posted - 2011.12.24 21:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
First of all: Sorry for my bad english. Why have I again the feeling to explain myself? (Seriously, let me out of your emotionial discussion, what is wrong with you people?).
- Dex Netherland
Nice to see you again Dex Nederland I really love your page (see my comments on my talk page or the talk page of: Lai_Dai_Corporation_NPC_Corp_v2 ).... (but you all ready know that). It was one of the reason why I have start the NPC Corp journey (see the talkpages). And like is said I love the overall look, to be more precise the puritanic look.
- Morwen Lagann
"What you, Publius and a bunch of other people write? That isn't canon." Are you stupid?... Have I (Publius Valerius) ever said that my stuff is canon.... Have I really come again with Karl Popper, to expailn what I have try to do. Seriously?... damn you are this type of people which I really hate.... A hate comment on stuff which you havent read in the first place, than to top your ****... you accuse people that they said something what they never had....
But I should been happy that you havent start your post with Godwin's law, like "Dude, Listen Karl Popper is a **** man... America or Iceland man ." (just jokeing) I-¦m always open to discuss things in a logical and deductive way, see here. But not ****.... sorry for the harsh words... but really you can hopefuly better than this. More about you on the bottom of the page.
- Wyke Mossari
I really love your work. And like Seriphyns work... it was always an inspiration, see the comments on my talk page, I cant link the stuff here). I think most of the stuff will sort out over the next months. I which I could say more but .
- CCP Abraxas
I really love your work.... great you like I said before... alot of juicy stuff.. I love the early stuff, also the deeper infos on some npcs etc... overall I never had the intention to criticize you are others. I really love it (And I dont mean love in a L.A. way .... About the settled systems: See the extra work of putting them in as Job creation program, to save Wilbur .
- About myself
I never said... I repeat for the stupid ones in "Fight Club style" (just jokeing)... I never said, my stuff is canon or even good. I never said, my stuff is canon or even good. I never said, my stuff is canon or even good. I had done most of the work during free time on the University or at work. So during the tiem one of my coworker was smoking outside... I wrote a little... or during the time a coworker was stalking his ex-girlsfriends via faceback... I wrote a little . So I start with some templates at frist.
I saw the NPC Corp pages as a little project of me (and Morwen Lagann it doesnt said or mean that it is my), so I have a little skin in the game.... BUT my goal was it from the start to make the stuff better (see here or my other links and comments). But sadly their wasnt any guideline or even feedback... with the exception of CCP Ginger, ISD Crystal Carbonide, Dex Netherland and Wyke. So and like I wrote on my Talk page a journey started.... in this journey I wrote some Fiction stuff YES Morwen Lagann, YES I wrote some... but for example the Emperor link was needed (had something like open 76 Links needed, you could saw it in the "Special pages"). So again before someone starts bitching or hating... plz go on my Talk page: Publius_Valerius read my post from 11.May2011[/url].
- About Communication
First of all: I had never had a deep conection with EVE, not like three of my RL friends. Which one of them brought me to the Game in the first place. So I have to qoute myself: "Man muss sich um einen Soldaten erst Sorgen machen, when he stoups bitching." F++r EVE setze einfach Spieler f++r Soldat ein." 1 "Only time you worry about a soldier is when he stops bitching. Just insert EVE players for soldier." And before the first moron post here again...with something like: "a bitter-Vet": I-¦m not a Vet, or even bitter, because I never had the feeling to *****. I see it Wyke comments as something or better said, as someone how shows he cares, thats why he started the topic. Thats the only reason I see... and thats why so many other have ***** about microtransactions, because they care. As for me I dont care as long I havent any skin in the game.... so yes I never had anything against microtransaction... (see here for example). Why I wrote all this of topic microtransaction, beacaus I can already see the first a**. I look at you Morwen Lagann , which wrotes something like: "Yo Publius, Dude, you are X or Y... Listen man."
- About the community
I really fall in love with this part of the game.... all started in the german help channel.... where I found really funny people, which I enjoy to be around (SaschS. Tabris Ronzo, Admiral Chrom and all the others people). Than of course my corp friends.. a big holiday hug from me on this point). Where is light, their is darkness . So like I said some of my friends leave of because FW got not any love etc.... But one of the major things on my list is now this... I have to come to X-mas here to defent myself against stuff.. which I never had said.... that is rock bottom .
____________________ P.S Most likely I need a break from EVE ... so do what you like with my stuff.... which I know wasnt my stuff.... etc.... I hope I havent to explain myself again....
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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
172
|
Posted - 2011.12.24 23:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP wants to regain control with their own lore. Fair enough. But that does not appear to guarantee an increased level of quality.
I say give it three weeks, then it should be better. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Eleutherian Guard
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.25 00:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
If you've been working on EVElopedia for the past year, then you should have been aware that there was going to be sweeping consolidations/changes to the lore via a devblog that detailed the start of the "Immersion Project", which risked your work to begin with.
Nobody asked you to tidy up the EVElopedia, it's true, and I'm sure many people are grateful for the time you spent consolidating it when the fiction was a mess. But now CCP are doing what they should have been doing, and not what the players have been doing, so... |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.25 02:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Publius, my post wasn't directed at you. Hell, you were only mentioned as an example of someone who writes a lot of good stuff, some of which isn't canon. I didn't accuse you of saying it was at all - so the one putting words in someone else's mouth is you, not me.
The fiction portal isn't for player-written stuff that is extrapolated or based on established PF. It's for stuff that is established PF, as determined by CCP and no-one else. Wyke appears to be having a misunderstanding with either that, or the fact that as Seri wrote while I was at dinner, we all knew this was coming.
Contributing to the wiki is great. It's awesome that there are people actively working to keep things neat and organized and filling in holes - but again, as Seri said, that shouldn't be our job. It's CCP's job, because they're the ones who actually know the wheat from the chaff, not us.
CCP told us a year ago that they were finally going to devote time and people to the task - they've finally gotten the first round of the end product finished and put it out for us to see. This just means that a ton of the stuff players have done, is going to be tossed aside while CCP decides whether it fits in with their master plan or not.
It doesn't mean people need to get all up in arms about it, as Wyke has done.
Jowen: I would expect as much, myself - with the amount of time and effort CCP has put into the FP, I'm willing to forgive some typos and other small mistakes like that, given the massive amount of information that's been dumped onto our laps everywhere else. |
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.25 05:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:The fiction portal isn't for player-written stuff that is extrapolated or based on established PF. It's for stuff that is established PF, as determined by CCP and no-one else.
Except it appears that CCP are pulling from player-written articles that are extrapolated from/based on established PF in order to fill out the Fiction Portal. Lai Dai Infinity Systems |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
107
|
Posted - 2011.12.25 07:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dex Nederland wrote:Morwen Lagann wrote:The fiction portal isn't for player-written stuff that is extrapolated or based on established PF. It's for stuff that is established PF, as determined by CCP and no-one else. Except it appears that CCP are pulling from player-written articles that are extrapolated from/based on established PF in order to fill out the Fiction Portal.
This is true and getting the contributer list right is part of the growth proccess for the Wiki.
Until the structural accessability issues are resolved, the wiki will not be a easy to navigate place. As someone that does a lot of work in that area we just need some new clear guide lines that work across the whole spectem of pages housed here. Created Lore is only as good as the frame work in which it is housed. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.25 08:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
Dex Nederland wrote:Morwen Lagann wrote:The fiction portal isn't for player-written stuff that is extrapolated or based on established PF. It's for stuff that is established PF, as determined by CCP and no-one else. Except it appears that CCP are pulling from player-written articles that are extrapolated from/based on established PF in order to fill out the Fiction Portal.
Because as I stated further down in that post, they've decided it fits in with their "master plan" for the universe. What's wrong with that?
I don't understand what the hell people are up in arms over.
There's a stupidly large amount of stuff to sift through before player-written stuff even enters into the equation. If people expected CCP to do it all in one go, including the process of vetting the player-written stuff that suits their vision, they should probably get their heads out of the clouds and their feet back on the ground.
It's one thing to create a fluff holovid series like Ken did with CPF Blue (see: Naga description), and another entirely to (using Publius' work as an example, again) slap together a huge diagram of how the Amarrian government is organized, or something similar for a megacorporation. The former is unobtrusive and doesn't affect anyone, really. It's a "yes, and..." to borrow the improv phrase. The latter isn't. That affects a ******* huge number of people. That takes time for CCP to go through and verify that it meshes with what they have already. Time for them to, if it does, go through it and clean it up, and tweak it as necessary to make it perfect.
Stuff that potentially falls in the latter category is a lot less likely to be pulled in its entirety on the first go. That doesn't mean that it won't at all - it very well might be in small manageable pieces that don't conflict with CCP's vision - but it'll take a lot longer to be vetted than a holovid series. Because really, that **** rots your brain. Didn't your mother ever tell you that? |
Milo Caman
Anshar Incorporated
17
|
Posted - 2011.12.25 11:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
I don't think content in the locked pages has actually been vetted or checked over to any great degree:
Quote:A species of animals described as GÇ£fuzzy, pink teddy-bearsGÇ¥ with grotesquely large eyes and mouths are used by the Amarr as a torture method. They are capable of saying GÇ£we... wuv... youGÇ¥ over and over. They were intended for children, but they were apparently found too unsettling. However, they manage to be effective at breaking prisoners, presumably because of how creepy they are. \[1]
from http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Flora_and_fauna_%28NPCs%29#Notable_Specific_Flora_.26_Fauna
If pages are checked over at all, I'm curious how in the hell something like this got through. The whole page is pretty appalling, but that stands out over the rest of it. |
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Publius Valerius
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.25 11:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:
It's one thing to create a fluff holovid series like Ken did with CPF Blue (see: Naga description), and another entirely to (using Publius' work as an example, again) slap together a huge diagram of how the Amarrian government is organized, or something similar for a megacorporation. The former is unobtrusive and doesn't affect anyone, really. It's a "yes, and..." to borrow the improv phrase. The latter isn't. That affects a ******* huge number of people. That takes time for CCP to go through and verify that it meshes with what they have already. Time for them to, if it does, go through it and clean it up, and tweak it as necessary to make it perfect.
Stuff that potentially falls in the latter category is a lot less likely to be pulled in its entirety on the first go. That doesn't mean that it won't at all - it very well might be in small manageable pieces that don't conflict with CCP's vision - but it'll take a lot longer to be vetted than a holovid series. Because really, that **** rots your brain. Didn't your mother ever tell you that?
Really... again.... I qoute myself again "let me out of your emotionial discussion, what is wrong with you people?"
______________________ Amarrian government. I qoute myself again "And again I said... dont see It as a page about 'central government', if you want make one.. I would love it and of course I would help.... and like I write later.... I was maybe a little to harrsh in my words... but still... I have the felling that we talk "to talk past each other" ehm... My plan was jsut to show the Emperor/Empress and her "trickle down" power... see it like as what can the emperor/empress do... and what her "trickle down sphere of influence", thats why the other coprs in the chart and ... some are not..." see the link which I have post: before ....like I said read ..... READ... ALL my stuff and my links... before starting... dont be lazy http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=2652.msg43880#msg43880
How many Times Have I to said that? How many Times Have I to said that? How many Times Have I to said that?
I have the feeling you had to see this page (Emperor) as something what describe the "whole thing", you wouldnt make your "Amarrian government" comment on the Privy Council page, because you are smart enough to see that this one page about one institution dont show the "whole thing". The same counts for my page.
______________________ About this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=564713#post564713 I qoute you: "What you, Publius and a bunch of other people write? That isn't canon." And like I said before go on my talk page: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Publius_Valerius_(Character) I havent wrote just one or two pages in fiction.... and yes I give a sh** about them. But If you want to talk with me.... use Popper and Correlation and dependence... like: Wyke or Publius had said f(x)... f(x) = X+Y thats why I write this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=564713#post564713 like Gossen's laws.... one line which explains.... a whole book... no... whole books. As far as I see.... your post wasnt anwers on Wyke or me... none of them..... you discuss with the air as far as I see it.... because nobodys said.... X or Y about the Fiction portal.... Did you understand this?
______________________ But most of all: Read: ""let me out of your emotionial discussion, what is wrong with you people?" "let me out of your emotionial discussion, what is wrong with you people?" "let me out of your emotionial discussion, what is wrong with you people?" |
Aedeal
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.25 11:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
Like I said, this isn't a finished project, it'll require a long time and a lot of work from all fiction guys & gals to get this into full shape. There's additional info to add, some of which can be taken from what is on the prior-wiki. It has to be CCP validated, remember that. They're not gonna just throw anything in there, whilst they know what CCP wrote is more likely to be correct.
There's also the lore changes, which will make various pieces of work obsolete. Again, the binary-systems-only jumpgates piece, the mismatching dates on the timeline. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 12:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
I have to say I am impressed with the new format, looks good, and I already got quite a few empirical facts from the changes.. I agree this could take a long time, but, I for one like the changes I see..
Thumbs Up! |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
110
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 13:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
All data base items need stubs so they are searchable.
Is there a way to bot added that text to all those items or will it have to be done manuelly becouse a page has to be created. I'll continue working on it but the sooner i get a yes or no the sooner I can work on something else. |
Borascus
Hole Diggers
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 15:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
The new layout is AWESOME. Thanks for arranging everything in one place, the additions are excellent.
As for the contributions that are missing; I'm hoping they've been given something like a .old extension so that some of the commentary remains. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 15:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
As for missing work, I would guess (hope) that it is not gone, merely being refined and incorporated where applicable.. To not use the really established player work would make no sense at all.. To me , anyway.. |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
44
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 20:15:00 -
[47] - Quote
Borascus wrote: As for the contributions that are missing; I'm hoping they've been given something like a .old extension so that some of the commentary remains.
Click the Page's HISTORY tab. This list the previous versions of the page, e.g. Wormholes:History. Then click the date field to see the content at that date, e.g. the previous full/undamaged version of Wormholes page.
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce
115
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 21:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
Notes
-Any one else having trouble logging in to the new Evelopedia from a second computer? Access is not linked to evegate forum access yet, it seems.
-With regard to wormholes( the access portal) and wormholes (the systems). The wormholes page is locked now as a Lore page.
-Anoikis has a unlocked page already it just needs to be filled in with the information about the systems and the type of wh that they connect to and writen up as the defacto source. The catch is that Anoikas will be locked soon to I suspect, so a "Anoikis-system specs" page will need to be used instead. Depending on the commen nominclature CCP decides to use.
-All database items need a redirect page so linking to them is easier. Once all database items have a page. Is this something that an edit bot can do?
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Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
45
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 11:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Some suggestions.
Since most content pages are now locked and cannot be fixed by players there needs to be a way to flag problems. A new category "Article in need of attention" that can be added to the talk page with an explanation. The category could be used to quickly identify these pages for fixing.
There should be some differentiation for categories of NPCs. The major ones, event actors like Sansha, Hilen etc and minor bit-part players in missions etc. At the moment these are all lumped under "NPC".
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Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
45
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 15:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
Credit when credit's due, the Earth and New Eden cluster pages are excellent. |
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
171
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 01:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
I don't post on the Fiction Portal, but I do add to the Evelopedia a fair bit. And I have to ask about the current plan with systems, namely, whether or not it's a good idea whether each system with additional info gets two entries, one for db-retrieved data here and another entry for in-game lore. Shouldn't they be merged into a single comprehensive article?
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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
183
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 10:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
After trying to work with the fiction, as we do in A'J, I have stumbled upon some of the more negative sides of this fiction portal. As example, the old Lianda Burreau paged stated that her Heron was destroyed in w-space along with a piece of Trinary Data while the new one makes no mention of this at all. In fact, it states practically nothing about her.
That Lianda Burreau's Heron got destroyed along with the Trinary Data IS prime fiction and I need this info back for my paper to make sense. While I can support cutting away the parts that are player speculation it is extremely annoying that basic fact prime fiction is being cut from the evelopedia.
And yes, I am annoyed that it happened in the first place because it shows that the people doing this are not thinking about what they are doing or are following some strict protocol (if there never was an ISD news item about it it never happened) which is doomed to let some essential pieces of EVE history be forgotten. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
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CCP Abraxas
C C P C C P Alliance
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 19:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
Even briefer followup than the one in the dev blog thread (which you should totally check out as well):
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Shouldn't they be merged into a single comprehensive article? No, item/system db and lore entries won't be merged, at least not in the near future. Two major reasons for this: 1) As I've noted, we want to avoid mixing non-lore stuff (including in-game minutiae, stats and attributes) with lore stuff, because the people looking for either one won't be looking for the other. (It would barely work even now, just imagine what it might be like once we take some a bunch of modules that people just want to look up the bloody stats on, and quadruple their lore lengths) , and 2) The db pages are autogenerated, so they're a hassle to work with, don't lend themselves to lore additions, could be overwritten at any time by a new db export, and all in all just aren't what we need. We're focusing on lore, its interconnections and its availability on the wiki and, later, in the game. DB pages don't fit in that scheme.
Jowen Datloran wrote:doomed to let some essential pieces of EVE history be forgotten. Don't worry. There is a simple method to re-instating any official lore (A'J or otherwise) that got left out of the mix: Add a note to the Discussion tab that earlier versions of this article contained official lore that got lost (and note exactly what it was, if you can). We'll review it when we can, and if we confirm it and decide that it's official lore, it'll get put back in.
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce
125
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 19:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Abraxas wrote:Even briefer followup than the one in the dev blog thread (which you should totally check out as well): Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Shouldn't they be merged into a single comprehensive article? No, item/system db and lore entries won't be merged, at least not in the near future. Two major reasons for this: 1) As I've noted, we want to avoid mixing non-lore stuff (including in-game minutiae, stats and attributes) with lore stuff, because the people looking for either one won't be looking for the other. (It would barely work even now, just imagine what it might be like once we take some a bunch of modules that people just want to look up the bloody stats on, and quadruple their lore lengths) , and 2) The db pages are autogenerated, so they're a hassle to work with, don't lend themselves to lore additions, could be overwritten at any time by a new db export, and all in all just aren't what we need. We're focusing on lore, its interconnections and its availability on the wiki and, later, in the game. DB pages don't fit in that scheme. Jowen Datloran wrote:doomed to let some essential pieces of EVE history be forgotten. Don't worry. There is a simple method to re-instating any official lore (A'J or otherwise) that got left out of the mix: Add a note to the Discussion tab that earlier versions of this article contained official lore that got lost (and note exactly what it was, if you can). We'll review it when we can, and if we confirm it and decide that it's official lore, it'll get put back in.
Any way to bot update linking pages for all DB items. Without some way to auto link to them, with all additional info on seperate pages there is no way to search for them or preserve the information. I still think a thin header like the one I suggested earlier would be the cleanist way to combine the two. |
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
14
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 21:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Have the database export dump into a format that can be retrieved with a Wiki Template call. That way the actual page for the system can be editable and have lore (structured to cater to both people who want stats and people who want words. It's not rocket science) while the hard stats are safely poured into some holding page without overwriting anything fun. Amarrad - Amarr language project |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
125
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 21:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
Horatius Caul wrote:Have the database export dump into a format that can be retrieved with a Wiki Template call. That way the actual page for the system can be editable and have lore (structured to cater to both people who want stats and people who want words. It's not rocket science) while the hard stats are safely poured into some holding page without overwriting anything fun. I think it already does, in a way. The problem is for the entry to show up in the wiki search with a link to the lore page for the item. Not a easy thing to do automaticly. |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
125
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 22:13:00 -
[57] - Quote
How do you want the german and other language pages handled. Will it be on the Evegate client level or do we need to attach a language category tag to all non english pages? |
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
36
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 23:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Horatius Caul wrote:Have the database export dump into a format that can be retrieved with a Wiki Template call. That way the actual page for the system can be editable and have lore (structured to cater to both people who want stats and people who want words. It's not rocket science) while the hard stats are safely poured into some holding page without overwriting anything fun. I think it already does, in a way. The problem is for the entry to show up in the wiki search with a link to the lore page for the item. Not a easy thing to do automaticly. Not if you structure it like this (rather oversimplified):
( [page1 type:hidden] {Database stats for item id 00000000001} [/page] )
( [page2 type:visible] {{Get all the stuff from page1 - structure it in neat tables}}
Lore galore, untouched by database exports. [/page] )
To the end user, there is only one page that appears in a search, the page for the item. The page has both database information and lore. The database information is pulled from another, obscured page, which the datadump script can update without fear of overwriting any lore work.
If YARR or CCP thinks it's too troublesome to rework the database bot, you could probably save a bit of work but have a less elegant solution by letting the bot construct a page with a template tag that can pull in lore text from another page - basically the reverse of what I'm suggesting. Amarrad - Amarr language project |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
46
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Posted - 2011.12.30 23:40:00 -
[59] - Quote
Something really odd is happening with single quote and apostrophes. It seems that somewhere along the line some have been converted or there's been some incorrect character encoding
It appears that UTF character (C2 92) is being used is some case rather than the normal ASCII apostrophe (character 27).
This can been seen most readily in the Arek'Jaalan categories, with many pages missing.
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce
126
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Posted - 2011.12.30 23:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
Horatius Caul wrote:Salpun wrote:Horatius Caul wrote:Have the database export dump into a format that can be retrieved with a Wiki Template call. That way the actual page for the system can be editable and have lore (structured to cater to both people who want stats and people who want words. It's not rocket science) while the hard stats are safely poured into some holding page without overwriting anything fun. I think it already does, in a way. The problem is for the entry to show up in the wiki search with a link to the lore page for the item. Not a easy thing to do automaticly. Not if you structure it like this (rather oversimplified): ( [page1 type:hidden] {Database stats for item id 00000000001} [/page] ) ( [page2 type:visible] {{Get all the stuff from page1 - structure it in neat tables}} Lore galore, untouched by database exports.[/page] ) To the end user, there is only one page that appears in a search, the page for the item. The page has both database information and lore. The database information is pulled from another, obscured page, which the datadump script can update without fear of overwriting any lore work. If YARR or CCP thinks it's too troublesome to rework the database bot, you could probably save a bit of work but have a less elegant solution by letting the bot construct a page with a template tag that can pull in lore text from another page - basically the reverse of what I'm suggesting.
With the new wiki active hopefully they will spend the time to get a salution that works and addresses all the issues. |
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