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C Black
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Posted - 2007.03.23 18:56:00 -
[1]
Question of the day! What is better with the right skills. I am mostly a mission runner.
C Black
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Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.23 19:02:00 -
[2]
Domi or myrm?
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C Black
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Posted - 2007.03.23 19:37:00 -
[3]
I am currently flying a thorax, I am working on getting the Raven up to speed before i buy it. I have a couple of Domx that i fly every once in a while or well a long while.
C Black
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Derrys
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.03.23 19:46:00 -
[4]
Heavies are mobile, have better tracking, and do comparable damage (T2 heavies do more damage than sentries, don't they?).
The only advantage sentries have is instantaneous damage at long range. So I guess the question boils down to what distance you typically fight at.
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C Black
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Posted - 2007.03.23 19:52:00 -
[5]
Sorry about the misunderstanding. I was talking about T2 heavy drones.
C Black
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Rannoc
The New Synergistic Collective
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.03.23 20:04:00 -
[6]
T2 Heavy Drones will out track and out damage sentry's, Only thing sentry's have over Drones is no travel time.
--R
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C Black
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Posted - 2007.03.23 20:15:00 -
[7]
Thanks, kind of what i thought. Working on getting skill up to fly the T2 heavies. I am flying T2 light right now. About to start using the T2 Med ones.
C Black
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Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.23 20:50:00 -
[8]
realize you can't fit heavys in a raven?
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SonOTassadar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.23 21:08:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Tunajuice
realize you can't fit heavys in a raven?
You can fit 3 of them, but yeah, it is better to put in mediums if you're going for raw damage on a Raven, and lights if your missiles can't efficiently take care of frigates.
-----
Griffin -- 100,000 ISK
ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK
Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK
War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless |
Kery Nysell
Caldari
Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.03.23 21:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tunajuice
realize you can't fit heavys in a raven?
You can't fit five heavies in a Raven, but you can fit three ... 75m¦ dronebay.
Personnaly I'd use 5 Lights and 5 Mediums in a Raven, but that's off-topic ...
On-topic, I use my sentries (Wardens, with my Dominix) for "sniping" the groups that are 60+ kms away, having previously aggroed them with a gun ... and I switch to my T2 Heavies when the baddies are closer than 40 kms.
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3rdD Dave
Gallente
Dark Entropy
Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.03.24 00:07:00 -
[11]
sentries are seriously under rated IMO.. i absolutely love them.
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Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.03.24 02:54:00 -
[12]
o/ 3rd dave
I have been considering trying them lately but they just don't look worth much. They only have a base optimal of 20km, so you have to give up on some tank to fit some omnidirectional tracking links to get them to hit out there, and a high slot or two for link augmenters. That kind of blows. Plus they have a HUGE sig resolution so it seems like they won't hit anything smaller than bs half as well as heavies.
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Pralay
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.24 03:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rannoc
Only thing sentry's have over Drones is no travel time.
--R
I can think of 2 more things:
- They have a 10% damage boost rig, regular drones don't.
- (not sure) but it seems you need a lot more training to get drones(t2hvy's) that outdamange sentries.
And don't discount travel time, at my typicall engagement distances 50-60km that is seconds. During the that time my sentries have popped a couple ships, and that is just the intial travel time, there's lots of other travel time between targets. Subjectivly it seems to add up to alot.
The big downer to sentries is that they don't move, so you tend to not move. Which doesn't work well if you need to be moving away from rats to survive.
On the plus side if they get damaged or you need to flee, there is no waiting for drones to fly back in order to scoop them.
The best answer to this question is to fly a Domi and carry both. deploy the sentries first, use them until/if ships get close then call out the heavies
I'm very curious if maxed t2 heavies outdamage maxed sentries by more than 10%(dam rig) and what total training time is for maxing out each.
Pralay |
Kery Nysell
Caldari
Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.03.24 09:52:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gaogan
o/ 3rd dave
I have been considering trying them lately but they just don't look worth much. They only have a base optimal of 20km, so you have to give up on some tank to fit some omnidirectional tracking links to get them to hit out there, and a high slot or two for link augmenters. That kind of blows. Plus they have a HUGE sig resolution so it seems like they won't hit anything smaller than bs half as well as heavies.
Erm, you need to check all four "races" of sentries, the Caldari ones (Wardens) have an optimal of 50 kms with a falloff of 25 kms, before skills (Drone Sharpshooting) ...
Yes, they have a huge sig resolution, they are meant to be anti-BS weapons after all, but at range, they can pop frigates quite fast, at least mine do ...
In summary, they are a nice addition to a drone boat arsenal IF you can take a pack of 5 AND other "sizes" of drones to complement them ...
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2007.03.24 16:53:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dahak2150 on 24/03/2007 16:49:46
T2 heavies outdo sentries, but T1 heavies do less damage than sentries, assuming parallel levels of heavy drone operation and sentry drone interfacing.
So there will always be a niche for sentries. They are quite useful when starting off a mission, you can burn down quite a few ships in the time it takes the NPCs to cross most of the distance, and then you can instantly scoop and pop whatever other kinds of drones you want.
Edit: Additionally, they're the only drones that get a damage rig.
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Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.24 17:02:00 -
[16]
5 t2 mediums are a month faster to train for and out dps 3 t2 heavies. (at least in missions, raw dps may be close)
So yes.. a raven can't fit heavies..
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Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.03.24 17:37:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 24/03/2007 17:34:08
Sentry drones are awesome on the Moros - on other ships they're extremely niche.
If you're mission running in a dominix or something - t2 heavies all the way, though sentries don't take long to train for, and might be useful occasionally.
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
AvatarADV
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Posted - 2007.03.24 20:15:00 -
[18]
Sentry drones are indeed less than ideal at shooting at frigs if there's any transverse velocity at all.
However, if I'm mission-running in my Dom, and I aggro a cloud of frigates... they all fly straight towards me! ;p My hit rate may not be huge, but the damage I'm doing is significant, so it's quite unusual for a frigate to survive more than 3 volleys; that means I'm popping a frigate approximately every ten seconds, as far out as my targeting will reach. (Drone range rig? Uh huh, uh huh.) Even advanced frigates are burned down pretty fast.
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2007.03.24 21:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tunajuice
5 t2 mediums are a month faster to train for and out dps 3 t2 heavies. (at least in missions, raw dps may be close)
So yes.. a raven can't fit heavies..
Let's put this simply for you, it seems you need it.
Heavy drone = 25m3.
Raven drone bay = 75m3.
75/25 = 3.
A raven can fit heavies.
You're just being a ***** about it, because apparently you think that everyone should do it your way.
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Lyn Bunnions
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Posted - 2007.03.24 22:52:00 -
[20]
3 T2 heavies do the damage of 6 T2 mediums everything else being equal(skills, type blabla) on a target where they have no trouble hitting it. Obviously there is the matter of travel time and the target you put them on, but it's silly to say that 5 mediums>3heavies in raw dps.
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Phoenix Raven
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Posted - 2007.03.24 23:29:00 -
[21]
t2 heavies ftw
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AvatarADV
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Posted - 2007.03.25 02:50:00 -
[22]
Granted, granted, but the mediums are a HECK of a lot faster than the heavies.
They're also a lot more flexible when it comes to what role they're filling. Medium drones can pile in to help with DPS on cruisers (and, to an extent, on battleships); they're also small enough to swat pesky frigates. You've got to take out those tacklers somehow, and using your drones to do it is a lot less of a sacrifice than fitting some launchers specifically for frigate defense, no?
And yes, training time is a big consideration. You can get to T2 mediums without going significantly out of your way (if you're using drones at all, you want Scout Drone Operation to V under any circumstances). But T2 heavies requires a nice fat rank 5 level V skill; that's about a month of training time that you could apply towards making your tank more resilient or your missiles more damaging (and probably to better effect!) Keep in mind that most pilots aren't gonna be charisma-heavy, so that's a slow-training skill, too...
T2 heavy drones are also a pretty expensive investment to be flyin' far away from your ship. If you get jumped, with mediums you can call them back and they may make it before they get to you; even if they don't, it's not all that much isk. With heavies, you'll leave 'em every time, and those things cost!
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Josh Causto
Gallente
Port Royal Independent Kontractors
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.03.25 05:20:00 -
[23]
well tbh with Sentry damage rigs i think they can outdamage heavies.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2007.03.25 11:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: AvatarADV
Keep in mind that most pilots aren't gonna be charisma-heavy, so that's a slow-training skill, too...
All drone skills are memory/perception though...
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.03.25 16:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lyn Bunnions
3 T2 heavies do the damage of 6 T2 mediums everything else being equal(skills, type blabla) on a target where they have no trouble hitting it. Obviously there is the matter of travel time and the target you put them on, but it's silly to say that 5 mediums>3heavies in raw dps.
Only in theoretical numbers do 3 heavy's out damage 5 mediums. In practice the mediums win 99% of the time. The only time the heavy's would win is if you are fighting only Battleships and they are all right on top of you so there is little travel time. Otherwise the mediums will get to the target much quicker, thus start firing quicker and doing more dps. On top of that they will not have sig radius issues vs smaller ships, which is what drones are usually used for if you're in a Raven anyhow.
If you're in a Raven you don't need help popping battleships, you need your drones to pop frigates as you pop BS's and Cruisers. And once all those little ships are dead your drones can come help out on any remaining cruisers then BS's.
There really is no good reason to take 3 heavy's on a raven, so his statement that a Raven can't use Heavy's is not literally correct but it is practically correct.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.25 19:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dahak2150
Originally by: Tunajuice
5 t2 mediums are a month faster to train for and out dps 3 t2 heavies. (at least in missions, raw dps may be close)
So yes.. a raven can't fit heavies..
Let's put this simply for you, it seems you need it.
Heavy drone = 25m3.
Raven drone bay = 75m3.
75/25 = 3.
A raven can fit heavies.
You're just being a ***** about it, because apparently you think that everyone should do it your way.
Let me do the math for you since you are obviously poor at logic.
Ogre 2 tracking speed = .36
Hammerhead 2 tracking speed = .768
Ogre2 max velocity = 840 m/s
Hammerhead 2 max velocity = 1,680 m/s
Targets do not sit still. Your drones need to shoot them, and travel to them. In a mission fighting ships that move and aren't 1km from you.. the hammerheads (or any medium drone) WILL out dps the 3 heavy drones.
Just because your logic skills suck, is no reason to mouth off and look stupid.
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2007.03.25 23:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tunajuice
Originally by: Dahak2150
Originally by: Tunajuice
5 t2 mediums are a month faster to train for and out dps 3 t2 heavies. (at least in missions, raw dps may be close)
So yes.. a raven can't fit heavies..
Let's put this simply for you, it seems you need it.
Heavy drone = 25m3.
Raven drone bay = 75m3.
75/25 = 3.
A raven can fit heavies.
You're just being a ***** about it, because apparently you think that everyone should do it your way.
Let me do the math for you since you are obviously poor at logic.
Ogre 2 tracking speed = .36
Hammerhead 2 tracking speed = .768
Ogre2 max velocity = 840 m/s
Hammerhead 2 max velocity = 1,680 m/s
Targets do not sit still. Your drones need to shoot them, and travel to them. In a mission fighting ships that move and aren't 1km from you.. the hammerheads (or any medium drone) WILL out dps the 3 heavy drones.
Just because your logic skills suck, is no reason to mouth off and look stupid.
I'm refuting your statement about ravens being unable to use heavies. Nothing about the logic of it, merely the possibility.
You're pulling something completely different out of your ass to save face.
Try again.
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Malcolm Adama
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Posted - 2007.03.26 01:04:00 -
[28]
Possibly off-topic to the OP, but I belive (haven't done the numbers) 2 heavies, 2 mediums, and 1 light (75 m3) will outdamge either 3 heavies or 5 mediums 
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Ezram Iena
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Posted - 2007.03.26 08:28:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tunajuice
So yes.. a raven can't fit heavies..
Errhhh.. no? Whatever you do or say, this statement is BS, so just quit it, ok?
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Lux Simian
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Posted - 2007.03.26 10:46:00 -
[30]
Both. If you have a Domi its worth it.
The idea is to move to a decent distance from the enemy, drop your sentrys and stay with them. Once the enemy get in closer, scoop your sentrys and launch the T2 heavys until the Fat Lady Sings.
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