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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.27 21:00:00 -
[151]
Quote: When it comes down to it, way too many people are jealous, angry or scared of the Privateers and hate the fact they'd have to pay us, the bad guys for those feelings to go away, so they just want the Privateers banned/nerft for being super bad to them and their friends.
Naw, I used to feel like that though I dont anymore. I eventually figured it was useless complaining about it and started using ways around Empire decs. ie: DONT HAUL WHEN DECCD. Intel,Intel,Intel. Nano,Mwd,Wt0,small ships. Jump Clones ftw. Alts ftw. (though I hate this) Competent gangs ftw.
Still, props to you for having the b-a-l-l-s to post such a controversial topic, I'm sure you knew what was coming. HOWEVER much I respect you personally, I still feel zero pity, no matter the circumstances, for a group that almost always prefers a Killmail over a Ransom. The whole concept makes no sense whatsoever to me. *shrugs*
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GimmeeThat
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Posted - 2007.03.27 23:01:00 -
[152]
This thread delivers
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Jane Vladmir
Gallente The Prancing Unicorn Club Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.28 00:54:00 -
[153]
Props to Ki An for being so tolerant. My tolerance gives up when people start posting before reading the whole thread and debate the same failed story over and over again. As for the Devs, we're still waiting - Don't be shy.
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.03.28 03:46:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir Props to Ki An for being so tolerant. My tolerance gives up when people start posting before reading the whole thread and debate the same failed story over and over again. As for the Devs, we're still waiting - Don't be shy.
Tolerant, or stubborn and myopic?
Ki An's position appears to be founded on the premise that there should be no disadvantage to warring in high sec. This is supported by his assertion that NPC corps should be abolished.
I contend that CCP created high sec, low sec and 0.0 for a reason.
If there was no downside to warring in Empire - other than the fees to bribe Concord - then what would be the point?
Sounds to me like both of you want cake and to eat it too. You're playing both sides of the argument; that game mechanics are perfectly fair and legitimate when it suits you, and broken when they don't.
If you want kill rights on everyone and anyone, especially someone looting "your" wreck... then I'd suggest getting out of Empire.
That said, if you'd rather keep crying on the forums... don't let me discourage you. It's quite entertaining.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.28 06:37:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 28/03/2007 06:33:26 So far none of you has ever tried to reply about some of the more basic question:
1) explain clerary what form should get your proposed change;
2) as most of your vague proposed solution are about change of ownership, what make you think it will be a easy change and what is the proposed solution to the problem created by multiple ownership;
3) why it is "fair" to change the rules for you and not for the miners.
So far the only reaction to the above question have been dodge, dodge, avoid avoid.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.03.28 07:01:00 -
[156]
Pirates complaining that you can steal stuff.
Hypocrite.
I hope that many more people will steal loot. Maybe this way those stupid high sec wars will stop and the war will move to low sec/0.0 where they belong to.
You don't want the loot getting stolen? Go to low sec! But ahh wait, everyone can attack you there and no happy griefing any more?
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Saphia Seraph
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Posted - 2007.03.28 09:21:00 -
[157]
I agree with Jane Vladmir and it does not matter if he is member of the privateers or whatever. Everyone who is at war and kills someone in empire can be a "victim" of a loot-stealer.
Imagine another corp wardecs your corp, you kill one of the guys in a hard fight somewhere in empire and then someone else in his t1 frig steals everything out of the wreck you just made and you cant do anything because he doesnt get flagged. That is not right in my opinion. |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.28 10:33:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Ryysa Don't see why people are whining at the tag.
A mod should clean this thread imo, I just read through 5 pages of spam, and only a few replies were useful.
Kagura, you should stfu imo in this case, seriously, I have a weird sense of respect due to some of your insightful posts, but trolling is slowly diminishing that respect.
Now, if you think a wardec in empire is an exploit, then perhaps you should ask CCP to completely remove wardecs.
This affects all corps, not only privateers.
Long before I joined privateers, I tried some empire waring... I think over a year ago or so, since I got bored of 0.0.
And it's like, people with any kind of brain, when they see a warp scramble message on their screen, they lock people, to check hitpoints, and steal loot when they pop.
It just is that way, doesn't matter if it's privateers or not.
I never had any dedicated loot *****s following me around, well... I don't really camp at gates that much, more of a roaming nature, but still.
If I was in a t1 kessie, the moment i saw a warpscramble message i'd stick around, especially if the ship about to go boom is a nice shiny HAC, which drops enough modules that I can steal so that I can finance another thousand kessies :)
I think there is a pretty deep stigma associated with some alliances right now. Every time I see a privateer or bob guy post something, people instantly start flaming his alliance ticker. Mods probably should start issuing warnings for trolling, then some of the whistleblowers would get banned and people would calm down :)
To Jane, I suggest you re-post this topic with all arguments that have been laid out in say a couple of days with an alt.
All the retards who flame privateer will probably stay away then :)
I never said its an exploit. Abuse and exploit are completely different things. They use it in legitimate way. but in a busive way. that means in a scale it hampers too much the game play of others.
There are lots of privateers tha deserve respect (a good example is that i nevewr saw North Face run from a fight). But Privateers cannot complain about people abusing other game mechanics in large scale. Because its exaclty what is done by them.
This is a game. So everything should ahve its counterpart. The counterpart to the anoyance that privateers are , are the loot thiefs. And if they are nerfed, then yes war dec system must be nerfed as well. Things must be balanced.
I sometimes get inflamed, but that is because I really get angry when some people act as if only them had rights in the game. And i simply cannot have respect for these people.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
JourneymanDave
devastation mining inc
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Posted - 2007.03.28 15:09:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Saphia Seraph I agree with Jane Vladmir and it does not matter if he is member of the privateers or whatever.
Of course you do, I just checked your employment and you're a Privateer too.
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Exlegion
New Light Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.28 15:39:00 -
[160]
Originally by: JourneymanDave
Originally by: Saphia Seraph I agree with Jane Vladmir and it does not matter if he is member of the privateers or whatever.
Of course you do, I just checked your employment and you're a Privateer too.
I actually suspected s/he was an alt for the PA, but didn't bother to research it.
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LabratDave
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Posted - 2007.03.29 20:50:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: JourneymanDave
Originally by: Saphia Seraph I agree with Jane Vladmir and it does not matter if he is member of the privateers or whatever.
Of course you do, I just checked your employment and you're a Privateer too.
I actually suspected s/he was an alt for the PA, but didn't bother to research it.
Even better... here's Saphia Seraph sitting at a gate gank, with her buddies, observed personally by yours truly 20 mins ago. Look about halfway down the Overview to see our friend. This was my first trip across empire in 2 weeks, and guess who I run into on this very trip? I laughed so hard, thinking about the arguments that PA have made about fighting in low-sec and 0.0, I nearly fell out of my chair. When I got enough oxygen inhaled to think straight again, I snapped this screenshot.
Enjoy.
PA Empire Gate Gank
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Le Skunk
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 21:50:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 29/03/2007 21:47:29
Originally by: Soporo ...I still feel zero pity, no matter the circumstances, for a group that almost always prefers a Killmail over a Ransom. The whole concept makes no sense whatsoever to me. *shrugs*
You try sitting around waiting for a ransom in a system with 8 different reds floating about. Just coz you dont see em ... dosent mean we dont.
"wait... im just calling in my blob *cough* i mean logging in my bank alt so i can pay up your ransom"
Often, due to the seat of the pants nature of our gamestyle, we wont have time to struggle thorugh the convo, wait, find the person dosent speak english, routine.
Amount of ransoms attempts I have offered : 12 People who said they would pay: 1 People who paid: 0
So unless someones screams in local at me. ITs plus one to my killmails (or two if your slow lol)
SKUNK
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chazthegreat
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Posted - 2007.03.29 23:05:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir Hi
When I kill an NPC and someone steals from my loot he gets flagged, allowing me to get it back. When I kill a PC and someone steals from my loot he doesn't get flagged. PC's are harder to kill than NPC's. Why shouldn't the same rules apply?
Also, allowing people to dock just as soon as they've stolen from MY WELL EARNED loot is not acceptable. I demand justice!
well earned loot????? ... you call ganking noobs . well earned loot... please you really need to go to a nice system where the merchants shoot back ..
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Cleptopatra
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2007.03.30 19:18:00 -
[164]
Well, it looks like at least the OP won't have to worry about being griefed by loot thieves anymore.. lol
Linkage Linkage
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Pat Metheny
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Posted - 2007.03.30 19:51:00 -
[165]
Can I have your stuff?
Nvm... I will get the suff from the wreck myself
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Exlegion
New Light Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.30 20:32:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Cleptopatra Well, it looks like at least the OP won't have to worry about being griefed by loot thieves anymore.. lol
Linkage Linkage
I don't get it . Are you suggesting Lucy Vladimir == Jane Vladmir
Exlegion
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Cleptopatra
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2007.03.30 20:51:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Exlegion I don't get it . Are you suggesting Lucy Vladimir == Jane Vladmir
Exlegion
Sorry.. I forgot one link. Here's what ties it together.
Linkage |
Exlegion
New Light Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.30 21:00:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Cleptopatra
Originally by: Exlegion I don't get it . Are you suggesting Lucy Vladimir == Jane Vladmir
Exlegion
Sorry.. I forgot one link. Here's what ties it together.
Linkage
Ok. Now I get it, thanks . If this is true this has got to be the most hypocritical OP I've read in quite some time . Indeed priceless.
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Lady Fuyya
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Posted - 2007.03.30 21:22:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir Hi
When I kill an NPC and someone steals from my loot he gets flagged, allowing me to get it back. When I kill a PC and someone steals from my loot he doesn't get flagged. PC's are harder to kill than NPC's. Why shouldn't the same rules apply?
Also, allowing people to dock just as soon as they've stolen from MY WELL EARNED loot is not acceptable. I demand justice!
You guys aint feeling as though there is no justice in eve are ya? Poor privateers
Or are you a bit miffed about me looting 70m worth of mods and skill books in one swift move outside jita 4-4 the otherday , when you guys were camping and poping war targets as they undocked?
hmmmm, maybe all noobs in npc corps should start doing this as well
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Jane Vladmir
Gallente The Prancing Unicorn Club Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.31 02:59:00 -
[170]
What the f*? I'm an alt now?
I scam, but I don't GTC scam, and I'm not "Lucy Vladimir"'s alt neither. What the hell is this?
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.03.31 04:49:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir What the f*? I'm an alt now?
I scam, but I don't GTC scam, and I'm not "Lucy Vladimir"'s alt neither. What the hell is this?
Just deserts?
Rather funny a self-admitted scammer is complaining about loot theft. Even more humorous to demand "justice."
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Thread Winner
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.03.31 05:06:00 -
[172]
I've been watching this thread for some time now and all I have to say is. . . wow
All of you so angry at one alliance For doing something they want to do. You are all guilty of trying your best to do what you want to do. So what do you do you begin becoming vultures ripping apart the carcases of peoples ships.
You hate the privateers for blowing you up so you steal their loot but if your taking the loot then you are profiting off of something you hate so much shouldn't that conflict with your carebear code?
Regardless look past the op's corp or alliance and understand that being a loot vulture is some serious BS.
They took the time to shoot down that ship (that dosen't mean it was a hauler) The won the fight. TO THE VICTOR GO THE SPOILS yet there are no spoils because you vultures can reap all the spoils with no risk what so ever. The idea of setting up a suicide ship to take down multitudes of scavangers is ridiculous at best while the idea of setting up a defense for yourself is easy.
I say the flag works both ways when it comes to loots the killer and the killed can both shoot who ever takes from the can or gain kill rights.
Logic is key here. Risk free is not eve at all.
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Marc deBourgogne
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Posted - 2007.03.31 06:22:00 -
[173]
I love this post. Last week somebody actually came with the idea on the forums to do this as a response to the brave acts of the privateers. It was just a matter of time to see the first Priv complaining....
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Minnie Trader
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Posted - 2007.03.31 06:40:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Thread Winner
Logic is key here. Risk free is not eve at all.
And that really is the problem people have with privateers. There's a reason for empire space -- it's to allow new players to take their baby steps in Eve without vets beating them to a bloody pulp every step of the way for several years.
Privateers are attempting to turn empire into a risk free lowsec/nosec gank zone with lots of nearly harmless targets to shoot at. Good for them. This also annoys a great many people, and hence the added risk of empire loot thieves in busy systems.
Want to shoot at loot thieves? Head to lowsec/nosec. Added risk of your victims being experienced enough to defend themselves, no risk of noob corp alts getting away with the booty.
To put it another way, if you wish to turn empire space into a war zone, be prepared to risk 'your' loot. Risk/reward at its finest.
Me, I'm one of the loot scavengers as opportunity allows. I won't spend all day camping a privateer camp, but if they're in battle I'll head over to join in the scavenging crowd. Estimated 200M liberated from their undeserving clutches, I figure I'm doing my part in maintaining balance.
And btw, I still travel after looting. There is absolutely still a risk of stumbling into the victim's corp steaming in for revenge.
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Big Al
Ki Shoda
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Posted - 2007.03.31 10:36:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Big Al on 31/03/2007 10:32:55 When you are blobbing in force don't pop them til you're next to the can (edit, soon to be can(tm) )
If you are in a big fight where you can't do that odds are even if the loot thief was flagged to you you wouldn't be killing him.
Amazing how a little common sense works eh?
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Exlegion
New Light Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.31 11:58:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Exlegion on 31/03/2007 11:56:10
Originally by: Thread Winner I've been watching this thread for some time now and all I have to say is. . . wow
All of you so angry at one alliance For doing something they want to do. You are all guilty of trying your best to do what you want to do. So what do you do you begin becoming vultures ripping apart the carcases of peoples ships.
You hate the privateers for blowing you up so you steal their loot but if your taking the loot then you are profiting off of something you hate so much shouldn't that conflict with your carebear code?
Regardless look past the op's corp or alliance and understand that being a loot vulture is some serious BS.
They took the time to shoot down that ship (that dosen't mean it was a hauler) The won the fight. TO THE VICTOR GO THE SPOILS yet there are no spoils because you vultures can reap all the spoils with no risk what so ever. The idea of setting up a suicide ship to take down multitudes of scavangers is ridiculous at best while the idea of setting up a defense for yourself is easy.
I say the flag works both ways when it comes to loots the killer and the killed can both shoot who ever takes from the can or gain kill rights.
Logic is key here. Risk free is not eve at all.
You should post with your main.
On to the discussion: The OP even admits to being a scammer, which carries exactly ZERO risk and ALL PROFIT. The PA limit their fights to empire where mostly 'carebears' reside (as you so much love to call them). Or do you disagree with this? The other day they were camping a gate in Motsu, which is a mission-running system. I mean what the ****?!? For the record, I've never been attacked by the Privateers. I just think that if you want to play 'badass' then do so. Just don't run crying to the forums because someone slinged some of the same **** you've been slinging around to others. Can you explain this logic to me?
As I said before, at the end of the day no matter what anyone says you'll still go about your business of making players miserable and whine when someone returns the favor.
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Jane Vladmir
Gallente The Prancing Unicorn Club Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.02 04:50:00 -
[177]
How does me being a scammer affect this discussion? What the hell is going on inside those little heads you've got?
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Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.04.02 07:45:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Tolomea on 02/04/2007 07:46:03
Originally by: Jane Vladmir How does me being a scammer affect this discussion?
The word you are looking for is hypocrite
And being both a hypocrite and a scammer means that the vast majority of people will consider your words and opinions to be totally without value.
And since this is quite obviously your discussion not only is it without value, but the mere fact that your associated with it makes people automatically assume that the original proposal is a bad idea.
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Tressia
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Posted - 2007.04.02 08:03:00 -
[179]
adapt?
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Le Skunk
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.02 11:05:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Exlegion I've never been attacked by the Privateers. I just think that if you want to play 'badass' then do so. Just don't run crying to the forums because someone slinged some of the same **** you've been slinging around to others. Can you explain this logic to me?
The logic is I havent seen ONE post from a privateer whining that
OMG THE NASTY ALLIANCES GANGED UP AND BLOBBED ME IN EMPIRE AND KILLED MY SHIP :'(
So they are not whining that the 'same **** is happening to us that we are doing to others'
I think im the worst loser in terms of ships in the privateer alliance (lost 76 ships now) but apart the occasional comment about blobbers I dont moan about this. Its part and parcel of the syle of game i play. Im also one of the biggest winners ISK wise in the alliance (2.5 billion isk up).
This mentality that the privatter lifestyle is one of flying around shooting unarmed carebears whilst they are in the kitchen making a cup of Tea is far from the mark. Sure its part of the lifestyle. But equaly part is avoiding/engaging big blobs of peeps looking for a fight. Lone carebears dont kill 76 of my ships :)
IF IT WAS NOOB PILOTS WHO WERE SWOOPING OUT, NICKING A BIT OF LOOT AND SCORING A NICE BIT OF LOOT TO SAVE THEM 15 HOURS OF MISSION RUNNING TO BUY A FIRST CRUISER I WOULDNT REALLY MIND
But its not always. Often it is alts of so called vets, who are to weak to defend themselves against us. Cravens skulking around on the battlefield, pulling the gold teeth of fallen combatants.
Thats pretty pathetic.
I will note that I have caught several vets nicking. And I am tracking them as they move corp to corp and wardeccing them wherever they go.
Hows that for 'adapting'. Your a bad penny now to whatever corp you join. Untill you apologise of course and retunr the Isk money.
Saying that, its part of the game ATM, so all we can do is post and hope CCP change it. Otherwise loot thiefing is a valid career.
CCP: Killrights on anyone taking from a wreck for BOTH the wreck owner (the defeated party) and the guy who killed it (the victorious party) please.
Loot thiefing will still be perfectly possible if your quick and alert. It will still be a valid tactic. It just wont be totally Risk free like it is now
SKUNK
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