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Draoidh
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.28 14:51:00 -
[1]
In a dev blog not too long ago they stated that they have not forsaken the mission runners. Yet in the last patch they boosted the NPC's EW to the point of being overpowered. What the frack is going on???
I am on lvl 2 Blockade vs Guristas flying an Amarr Maller. First time I tried this I almost could not finish it do to 3 frigs that permajammed me with ECM. Tried ECCM, backup arrays and other tips from the forum. Only thing that worked was countless warp in and out until I finally dropped those frigs and could finish it.
Once again I am given the Blockade and I thought "Ok, this will take a while but at least I know what I must do". So I clear the first wave and get ready for the warp in/out yoyo. With the second wave I get ECM'd and when I look down the list for them I find not 3 this time but 4. Top it off last time it was 3 normal frigs but this time its 4 DIRE frigs. WTF?!?!
I am all for making things a challenge but there is a point where hard is too hard.
--D
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.28 14:54:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Draoidh In a dev blog not too long ago they stated that they have not forsaken the mission runners. Yet in the last patch they boosted the NPC's EW to the point of being overpowered. What the frack is going on???
I am on lvl 2 Blockade vs Guristas flying an Amarr Maller. First time I tried this I almost could not finish it do to 3 frigs that permajammed me with ECM. Tried ECCM, backup arrays and other tips from the forum. Only thing that worked was countless warp in and out until I finally dropped those frigs and could finish it.
Once again I am given the Blockade and I thought "Ok, this will take a while but at least I know what I must do". So I clear the first wave and get ready for the warp in/out yoyo. With the second wave I get ECM'd and when I look down the list for them I find not 3 this time but 4. Top it off last time it was 3 normal frigs but this time its 4 DIRE frigs. WTF?!?!
I am all for making things a challenge but there is a point where hard is too hard.
--D
There's something odd going on here. I have noticed a distinct drop in the frequency of jamming by Guristas. I can't say for other rats because only jamming really bothers me. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Please don't read this signature. |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.28 16:07:00 -
[3]
To me Guris seem to be weaker on their jamming (more failures than successes), but everyone else is stronger. And the number of ships that are jamming seems to be increased.
Plus they jam at 2-3x the range that a PC can jam, but at least I'm not getting hit by bloodclaws fired by frigates at over 110km away anymore
But I'm only running level 3s solo. <-----------> Keiron: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=427556&page=2
PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to the entire player base |
Biron Soringard
Caldari Helix Tech.
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Posted - 2007.03.28 19:18:00 -
[4]
I did the blockade L4 yesterday.. jammed 7 cycles in a row after warp in, got one or two cycles of locking then was jammed for 50%+ for the rest of the mission (until I mangaged to start killing off the NPCs which were doing the jamming, the dire murderers etc in this case. It seems to be that mission only though, I did GE after that and only got jammed once or twice.
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inSpirAcy
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2007.03.28 19:27:00 -
[5]
Tracking disruptors on Sansha ships are also getting a bit out of hand.
Just three frigates had me almost perma-disrupted (failing about 1 every 6 cycles) while fighting a huge group of cruisers on The Blockade L3. I had to give up, AB towards them (my drones were doing their best but Loyal Manslayers are tough beasts) web and kill before I could actually hit anything.
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2007.03.28 19:36:00 -
[6]
A level 3 mission against serps had me damped from 77km to 20km the other day.
It's frankly nuts. I understand how they want to make missions more realistic (fewer, more powerful NPCs) but they seem to have done the second part while forgetting the first. ----------------
If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a browser that supports .png. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.28 22:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dahak2150
It's frankly nuts. I understand how they want to make missions more realistic (fewer, more powerful NPCs) but they seem to have done the second part while forgetting the first.
So true. Instead of half as many ships, that are twice as tough, there as many ships as before, if not more, doing crazy things. :)
Perhaps this is an intermediate step, such things are common in Eve dev cycles. -AS |
Kyran Dussalt
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Posted - 2007.03.29 03:37:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kyran Dussalt on 29/03/2007 03:34:48 LESS JAMMING? YEAH RIGHT, Ive spent the better part of an evening being jammed to death (3hrs of non stop jamming one cycle after another) in a level 4 mission, Im actually contemplating quitting eve altogether cause I DONT NEED TO PAY FOR THIS LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION, I can sit & smash my grion with a rock for free. Please seriously for a finale to killing missions why dont you make every ship warp scram and web too? better yet shoot us with station guns as soon as we undock to make it quick and easy
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Marquis Dean
The Last Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2007.03.29 03:43:00 -
[9]
@ the poster above me. Easy now!
@ everyone. Has there been a single Dev response to any of the numerous threads on this topic? --- Mods stop nerfing my sig! Err - what sig? - Timmeh Yes quite! |
Riho
Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:31:00 -
[10]
serp blockade.... erf... its sick.
i jump in... sit there whit 7km lock range on a raven about 40% of the time...
rest of the time im damped to about 20 and lock time is over a minute or something on those 250k cruisers that damp :(
atm moved to minni space... havent tryd lvl4s yet becouse im like 0.5 standing away to get a agent :D hope i get alot of angels :D --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog ----------------- |
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.29 09:15:00 -
[11]
I did Guristas Pirate Invasion last night. Actually it was about the same as it always has been. I'm wondering - I do L3 missions in a Rave:Could that be making me significantly more immune to jamming than more typical L3 ships? -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Please don't read this signature. |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2007.03.29 09:38:00 -
[12]
What annoys me most is that the missions have been hard, but doable before. They had the right number of ships to be challenging bis you could do them if you knew your way around the mission.
Then Electronic Warfare was added. This makes the mission take longer as the NPCs are harder to kill.
Have the numbers of NPCs been reduced?
Not noticeably.
So they take a situation that is borderline dangerous and add more danger to it.
Good, this affects drone users less than those who need a locked target to kill NPCs, but it sure does increase the time needed to complete a mission by orders of magnitude that make it boring.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Getschi
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.03.29 10:03:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Getschi on 29/03/2007 10:02:17 Edited by: Getschi on 29/03/2007 10:02:08 OMG there are now some new heavy Lev. 4 Missions!
If you cant handle this new Missions alone go to Lev. 3 Missions and dont whine in the Forum!
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Apoc Affirm
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:11:00 -
[14]
I guess I should feel lucky that I just graduated from lv3 missions an now doing lv4 missions in my Drake and am having a blast with how tough it can get sometimes. I wont ever know how easy some of the missions were previously.
All this means is I have be stronger, faster, and smarter than my enimey.
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Sanzorz
Amarr EVEfan.dk
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:26:00 -
[15]
In Amarr space I only seem to cross Sansha, Blood, Guri and Mercs. Sansha dosen't seem to use alot of EW. Bloods tend to use NOS and tracking distruptors, but missiles and drones help for that matter.
Guris spend alot of time using target distruption, which really only take extra time. It dosen't make them more deadly :-P
Rarely see Mercs use EW. They just spit missiles instead. --- Currently flying a PvE geared Crusader and Prophecy |
Leandro Salazar
Bravehearts Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Andrue I did Guristas Pirate Invasion last night. Actually it was about the same as it always has been. I'm wondering - I do L3 missions in a Rave:Could that be making me significantly more immune to jamming than more typical L3 ships?
It is just that in L3s you don't encounter the main EW ships in large numbers like you do in lvl4s. I have run lvl3s against all factions bar Serpentis now and it has not impaired my Sleipnirs performance much. Maybe 2-3 jam cyles each Guristas mission, a little tracking disruption from Sanshas that did not seem to keep me from hitting the NPCs, and no noticeable NOSing from Bloods.
But from all I hear and from the ship stats in the DB, it is completely different in lvl4s, where the sheer mass of jamming ships (especially elite frigs/cruisers which rarely if at all appear in L3s) permajams you in Guristas L4s, where Sanshas tracking-disrupt you down to 10% of your optimal and tracking, where a spawn of 6 Blood Battleships nosses your cap dry in one fell swoop from 40 km range...
So don't discount the horrible effect the new EW has on lvl4s when you have only done lvl3s. The two are completely different in that regard. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
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Elain Reverse
Caldari Shokei
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Getschi Edited by: Getschi on 29/03/2007 10:02:17 Edited by: Getschi on 29/03/2007 10:02:08 OMG there are now some new heavy Lev. 4 Missions!
If you cant handle this new Missions alone go to Lev. 3 Missions and dont whine in the Forum!
Yay, i find out you find chalenging to be permajamed for half hour by 4 stupid cruisers or nosed to dry in maybe 20s or damped to 8 km with faster ships orbiting you at 20.
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Ghan Tylous
Caldari The Graduates Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Getschi Edited by: Getschi on 29/03/2007 10:02:17 Edited by: Getschi on 29/03/2007 10:02:08 OMG there are now some new heavy Lev. 4 Missions!
If you cant handle this new Missions alone go to Lev. 3 Missions and dont whine in the Forum!
"Dude", these missions shouldn't be that hard. They should be doable without getting frustrated about being perma jammed, NOSed to death in less than 30 secs. --- It have always fallen to a few to sacrifice for the good of many
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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Johnny Wiseacre
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Posted - 2007.03.29 13:15:00 -
[19]
FINALLY, a use for FOF missiles
Seriously, being jammed or damped should be no issue for any missile boat.
Add tracking disruption and its difficult for gunners, sure, but the upside is when you do shoot you do more damage. Its the same in PvP. Biggest mission issue IMO is the hike for NPC Nos boats - but hey, look, there are energy transfer modules and ... wait for it ... you can fit nos yourself !
CCP have always said they wanted to encourage more co-operation. I guess this is just another step in that journey. If you want to complete these missions in the same time you used to, or you need too many different modules and can't maintain DPS - take a friend ... or 2 .... or 5. Or train for a bigger range of ships / weps / modules. There are still many alternatives to the one-ship-grind you have been used to. Time to adapt.
Just make sure you manage the aggro
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Jukhta Mein
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Posted - 2007.03.29 13:17:00 -
[20]
I think this just means missions have got to be done with other human players.
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Xaroth Brook
Minmatar Doomcraft
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Posted - 2007.03.29 13:19:00 -
[21]
one word:
DRONES.
you only need 1 lock cycle to have them engage, and they automagically switch targets when their target dies... problem, problem solved. (I do this with the L4 variant.. take all aggro, start tanking, send out drones.... then wait for the jamming to decrease. ) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook [Datacore - Quantum Physics] x 40 |
Norcuron
Caldari Community for Justice G.U.A.R.D.
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Posted - 2007.03.29 13:56:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Norcuron on 29/03/2007 13:54:12
Originally by: Xaroth Brook one word:
DRONES.
I am a hardcore drone user. Yes, you only need 1 lock to send your drones on an attack. After the first enemy is down, drones automatically switch targets... Correct. But I am using the word "targets" here: First of all, drones are dumb as a brick. They donŠt attack a single target together, instead they spread out and each of them attacks a different target. And did you ever try to take down a 250k Cruiser with a single drone, no matter if heavy or medium? The moment you encounter jamming bs, good luck
Next thing:
Take all aggro????? YouŠre either insane or have one hell of a faction tank on your ship. Did you ever try tanking a whole stage in a lvl4 mission? Some are possible with good equipment and some decent skills. But in most of them, the moment you got stage aggro, itŠs time to warp out. If you donŠt have stage aggro and youŠre drones are on a rampage since youŠre perma jammed, they unfortunately tend to fly close to enemies, that donŠt have aggroed you yet. What happens is that you see your drones go down...and getting a heavy drone back from 70km takes some time. Usually itŠs down before completing half the distance.
In addition to the jamming, the big problem in my eyes are the scramblers... How can I take them out while being jammed? You need about 30sec to a minute to target them when youŠre dampened.. That is, if youŠre lucky that enemies only dampen.
I agree that some missions have become really hard, some you canŠt master alone. Ok, CCP wants us to encourage to fly in teams, but what they are doing is forcing us to. So in the end, the question is, do we have the time and the human ressources to gang up for a lot of lvl4 mission?
Just my 2 cents.............
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Kery Nysell
Caldari Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.03.29 14:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Xaroth Brook one word:
DRONES.
you only need 1 lock cycle to have them engage, and they automagically switch targets when their target dies... problem, problem solved. (I do this with the L4 variant.. take all aggro, start tanking, send out drones.... then wait for the jamming to decrease. )
Yes, they switch targets when their current one dies ... and they also often choose a different target each, meaning that in some cases they won't be able to kill their next target as one drone doesn't do enough damage to break some tanks ... and before you flame me, I have 6 millions in Drone skills, maxed Drone Interfacing/Combat Drone Operation/Heavy Drone Operation, and all specs to 4, so no, it's not my skills that suck ... it's the drone AI ... IF they could stay "in pack" and all go to the same target, the problem would be solved indeed ...
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.29 14:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Johnny Wiseacre FINALLY, a use for FOF missiles
Seriously, being jammed or damped should be no issue for any missile boat.
Now go away and learn how FOFs work...
Their range is tied to your ship's max locking range. Jammed has no effect - but if you are damped, then so are your FOFs...if YOUR locking range is 20km, then it's 20km for your FOFs too.
If you don't believe me, go run some tests with a corp mate. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Johnny Wiseacre
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Posted - 2007.03.29 16:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Johnny Wiseacre FINALLY, a use for FOF missiles
Seriously, being jammed or damped should be no issue for any missile boat.
Now go away and learn how FOFs work...
Their range is tied to your ship's max locking range. Jammed has no effect - but if you are damped, then so are your FOFs...if YOUR locking range is 20km, then it's 20km for your FOFs too.
If you don't believe me, go run some tests with a corp mate.
I am pretty sure FOF worked fine on the last Serps Assault I ran. Maybe your corp mate is the wrong thing to test NPC effects with ? Is he Jovian or something ?
Having said all that, I may be mad, and am happy to go poke a few more serpentis to see if I encounter what you describe. Perhaps you could also be a little nicer with your responses too.
If I see anything worth posting I will put it here.
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Zalathar
Minmatar Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.03.29 16:29:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Zalathar on 29/03/2007 16:26:46 so, the cynics scream DRONES!! or FOF missiles!! now stop a moment. think about the new missions. they always involve:
a) triggers: so, u want us to spam FOF missiles everywhere... now how about that little caracter frig (i'm thinking of damsel in distress here) u sure as hell dont want to pop that before u got everything else out of the way...
b) second spawns: second spawns are the nightmare of drone users. u end up having to recall your drones, as u watch them wilt under heavy enemy fire.
so, drones and fof are not the awnser here.
also,pve is meant to be less risky and less rewarding than pvp (which follows CCPs risk for ISK policy) now they are making the missions alot more risky. excuse the bad pun, but when are they going to get more ISKy?
~~~~~~ sig currently being remastered (it was too large) ~~~~~~ |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.29 17:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Johnny Wiseacre Perhaps you could also be a little nicer with your responses too.
Granted, and I apologise. I have had the week from hell, but shouldn't vent it on the forums.
I still think the information on sensor damping is correct though...and I don't see how you'd get a distinction between an NPC-induced lock rang of 20km and player-induce lock range of 20km...show info on your ship in boths cases stills says "20km"... and from the tests we did, a ship INSIDE that range would be FOF'd, OUTSIDE it would not. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
DRMALIKIA
United Technologies
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Posted - 2007.03.29 18:00:00 -
[28]
/signed with the above.
I forgot the level 4 I ran over the weekend but it was hell. Awesome bounties, lots of BS's, and if my Corp members, all five of them even farted side ways, the entire room of ships agroed the first person to release drones or shoot anything. I ended up having 4 ships boosting my shields just to complete the mission. 4 Ships! And it took the better part of 3 hours to run the mission because by the time I had a lock, firsed off 2-3 salvos of missiles I was jammed for enough cycles that the NPC I just fired upon healed.
Is this painting a picture for you? 5 peeople, running a LVL 4, with several 250K cruisers, at least 10+ BS, and some misc ships. It took roughly 3 hours with some high skill 20+ SP players, because the jamming was so constant and the BS cruiser, so regenerative, BAD ISK FOR TIME INVESTED.
5 way split on bounties, and 3 hours for a LVL4 with 5 people. Was a worthless Corp mission get together. I now want to gauge my eyes out with a sharp pointy stick.
Let's try some jamming,a lot fewer harder ships, larger bounties, and the ability to bring friends so the whole room does not agro one person and then you spend the next 3 hours warping between 3 jump gates just to kill 1 jamming cruiser or BS at a time.
The doctor is at your service. |
Sandeep
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Posted - 2007.03.29 18:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Grey Area I still think the information on sensor damping is correct though...and I don't see how you'd get a distinction between an NPC-induced lock rang of 20km and player-induce lock range of 20km...show info on your ship in boths cases stills says "20km"... and from the tests we did, a ship INSIDE that range would be FOF'd, OUTSIDE it would not.
Disagree
----- woot woot.. woooooot!! |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.29 18:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Grey Area s.
I still think the information on sensor damping is correct though...and I don't see how you'd get a distinction between an NPC-induced lock rang of 20km and player-induce lock range of 20km...show info on your ship in boths cases stills says "20km"... and from the tests we did, a ship INSIDE that range would be FOF'd, OUTSIDE it would not.
All other things being equal, I would agree. Of course with a player-induced lock you will be up against a couple of ships, not upwards of 50 in some missions. But there are other issues too:
Like NPCs that NOS you at 40km. Have you ever seen a player that can NOS that far? Dampeners hitting you at 100km +. Then light missiles (bloodclaws from frigates to be exact) hitting at that same range. I even had a frigate hitting me with a rail gun at 80km in a level 3. No, it wasn't doing any damage to me but there is still a serious issue there
I agree with the comments made above. It seems they made the ships a step or two more difficult (especially for level 4s), but forgot to reduce the number of ships. Oh well, at least they are coughing up a lot of bounty and good salvage <-----------> Keiron: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=427556&page=2
PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to the entire player base |
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