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Cloora
APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:05:00 -
[1]
I am a miner. I train mostly mining skills and I read all the mining related posts. I see all the complaints about mining made by miners and the people that complain they cant stand mining and think we are all looney or macroers.
I had an idea. It would require a lot to implement and would be controversial but I think it would solve some problems. It may create some as well but that is what you people need to discuss about this idea.
Make mining FPS like.
I can hear it already, "What? Are you crazy? How do you do such a thing?"
Well I was thinking like this: I pull my barge up to a rock, I target a roid and I fire my strip miner laser. In current EVE I now sit and wait for 3 minutes until it is done and then shuffle ore to hauler via jet can. It is boring and tedious. BUT, I can surf the web, DJ APEX radio, go get a drink, watch a movie and all sorts of things while checking back every 3 minutes. ACtually with the limited cargo hold of my Retreiver its 1.5 minutes ebcause I have to stagger my lasers to not overflow my tiny cargo hold. (but that is a differant subject).
So this style of gameplay leads easily to macro miners and bored people. (unless you multi-task)
So why not make mining take more of your attention? Make it so you fire the laser and a targeter zooms to a FPS style looking at your beam. You now direct your beam accross the roid, blasting rock and and looking for veins of ore. As you sweep over veins you pull in the appropriate ore. Maybe make skils effect how easy you can find veins in the rocks. Higher skill means you are finding veins easier and smaller ones that you could not see you can now see.
This would be kinda fun I think. Make the graphics pretty of the rock blasting away and the laser sucking up the ore. This constant attention would make macroing almost impossible.
This would lead to several difficult things: implemting this new gameplay would require Dev work. And we all know devs dont give a lick about mining anyway.
Current miners that like the semi-afk mining style might not like it.
What do you think? I know its far fetched but I think it is worth discussing. ======================================== Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited
I don't want to be forced to Jet Can mine or buy a hauler alt to mine effectivly. BIGGER CARGO HOLDS IN BARGES NOW! |
Captain Campion
Amarr Dark Horizons
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:12:00 -
[2]
if you want to fps, go play cs.
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Jex Jast
Go for the booty
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:13:00 -
[3]
It sounds nice, but here's the issue:
1) Macrominers wouldn't stop at all, they'd make a predetermined pattern to sweep the roid. They wouldn't get optimum yield but they'd get yield, and that's the part they care about.
2) There's a reason we don't turn our ships manually - precision control is not for Eve. Too much lag, and with all the people on one server...well...
3) I afk mine with my alt a lot. Doing this would force me to stop, or to start macromining as otherwise I'd just have the laser sitting on the same part of the roid. Thus, I wouldn't like it. Thus, it's a bad idea .
So it sounds reasonable but I don't think it's worth the dev effort. Besides, you mining types can get your homework/post-work work/housework/bills/other stuff done while you mine. And chat. And eat.
And sing. Well...I guess anyone can sing while they play, unless they're in TS or Ventrilo with their corp. Then they ought to refrain. ----- :::Need to be cleaned:::
Fixed it. Happy? Quite . -HornFrog I'm not happy, it doesn't have a goat!- Tirg Oh look we're hi-jacking his sig again - Timmeh |
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:14:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Captain Campion if you want to fps, go play cs.
Yeah i knew I could get intelligent contructive criticism like this.
There are games with excellent gameplay with FPS style of play.
DDO is one that comes to mind.
I am not saying change combat. I think combat is pretty cool in EVE thats why I am here. I am talking about making mining more interesting. 40 views and this is all I get? ======================================== Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited
I don't want to be forced to Jet Can mine or buy a hauler alt to mine effectivly. BIGGER CARGO HOLDS IN BARGES NOW! |
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:18:00 -
[5]
Yeah Jax that was the counter arguement to this going into it. But I think lag could be controlled. The servers dont need to keep track of anything. All that stuff could be handled client side. ======================================== Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited
I don't want to be forced to Jet Can mine or buy a hauler alt to mine effectivly. BIGGER CARGO HOLDS IN BARGES NOW! |
Motorcycle Emptiness
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:24:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Motorcycle Emptiness on 28/03/2007 20:29:15 So your method would force people to stare at a rock for hours on end?
I imagine the fact you can semi-afk when you mine is the attraction for many people :)
OH wait i see the light, you mean you'd have to zoom in on the 'roid, find the ore then just start the laser and you're set?
Sounds good to me, can't see how a macro would get much ore at all with that method.
Flashing White Box (rank 1) |
shady trader
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Motorcycle Emptiness
I imagine the fact you can semi-afk when you mine is the attraction for many people :)
It is for me espicaslly then mining with two account and chatting with mates in game.
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Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:30:00 -
[8]
Interesting idea.
While I can see a few technical problems with it (lag, issues with defending yourself against belt rats while "zoomed in" on a roid, etc.) I do think the overall idea is nice. I know that alot of people in EVE will have an issue with the "FPS" comparison, so may I suggest amending that to a more technical comparison? IE: having to select the roid, and then target the individual strands of ore? Let the Ship's computer handle following the ore vein.
Obviously this puts a kink in the whole "stop the macro-miners" part of your plan, but it does make it more interesting to mine, and once you have targetted an ore vein, you can unzoom, and keep an eye out for rats.
Mostly I would like to see some attention paid to the overall look and feel of mining. Frankly, it looks like you are shining a laser pointer onto the roid and then it just disappears. I would like to see more of a light show, and some actual rubble and debris coming off the roid. Perhaps even a debris cloud that dissipates after a while. It could even be worked into game play. Too much rock dust and debris from mining, and you can't see well enough to target anything. That would help cut down on macromining too.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Hango ([email protected]) |
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bish Ounen Interesting idea.
While I can see a few technical problems with it (lag, issues with defending yourself against belt rats while "zoomed in" on a roid, etc.) I do think the overall idea is nice. I know that alot of people in EVE will have an issue with the "FPS" comparison, so may I suggest amending that to a more technical comparison? IE: having to select the roid, and then target the individual strands of ore? Let the Ship's computer handle following the ore vein.
Obviously this puts a kink in the whole "stop the macro-miners" part of your plan, but it does make it more interesting to mine, and once you have targetted an ore vein, you can unzoom, and keep an eye out for rats.
Mostly I would like to see some attention paid to the overall look and feel of mining. Frankly, it looks like you are shining a laser pointer onto the roid and then it just disappears. I would like to see more of a light show, and some actual rubble and debris coming off the roid. Perhaps even a debris cloud that dissipates after a while. It could even be worked into game play. Too much rock dust and debris from mining, and you can't see well enough to target anything. That would help cut down on macromining too.
Yeah that would be nice. I ahte how you get a massive Veld roid and it goes from huge to POP! its gone. That would be awesome if you saw the roid get eaten away or at least get smaller. ======================================== Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited
I don't want to be forced to Jet Can mine or buy a hauler alt to mine effectivly. BIGGER CARGO HOLDS IN BARGES NOW! |
Alora Venoda
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cloora
Yeah that would be nice. I ahte how you get a massive Veld roid and it goes from huge to POP! its gone. That would be awesome if you saw the roid get eaten away or at least get smaller.
yeah, when i first started i actually thought they would shrink like that... i was a bit dissappointed to learn they dont.
anyway, another major problem with the idea of manually finding veins on the asteroid "FPS style" is how most people often mine 2 or 3 different asteroids at once. i could only picture some kind of crazy split screen setup... now imagine that from a BS with 8 Miner II's...
the idea of having the computer "lock on to a vein" and handling it from there would make more sense. but it still adds a level of micromanagement that no other activity in EVE has. you dont have to tell your guns to target certain parts of enemy ships do you?
anyway, thats my 0.02 ISK.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Requiem of Hades
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Posted - 2007.03.28 21:01:00 -
[11]
Hear hear. I endorse this thread. Play mini-games to mine. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2007.03.28 22:55:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 28/03/2007 22:52:03 Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 28/03/2007 22:51:45
Originally by: Cloora if you want to fps, go play cs.
Yeah i knew I could get intelligent contructive criticism like this.
He does have a point though.
One of the reasons SWG turned into a fiasco with the NGE was just because they did what you propose: FPS controls! I dont want to see EVE following in their footsteps!
Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
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St Dragon
NexGen Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.28 23:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cloora Yeah Jax that was the counter arguement to this going into it. But I think lag could be controlled. The servers dont need to keep track of anything. All that stuff could be handled client side.
Problem with client side based software is that it can be easilly hacked. -----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
Stakhanov
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.03.29 00:27:00 -
[14]
It would be nice if mining yield were affected by your position relative to the roid - you'd have to move around to mine veins on all sides , or you would get basically nothing.
Even just requiring the miner to position himself correctly does a great deal against macromining - too many variables for a script to handle. Orbiting wouldn't work , especially with other roids in the way.
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Taria Caldar
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Posted - 2007.03.29 00:52:00 -
[15]
I mine... I mine all the time. I mine semi-AFK because while I'm mining I'm watching and playing with my two sons during the day. I like the mining system specifically because it allows me to mine while not requiring 100% of my attention. Now and then I get too distracted and my lasers stop. That's ok though. I don't like this suggestion at all. I don't get bored. I have a blast and love EVE because it allows me to spend time with my kids while I play without having to ignore them.
If they made this change I'd cancel my subscription. It's just that simple.
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Enaria Ferenic
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Posted - 2007.03.29 01:00:00 -
[16]
Like the poster above me i mine casue it allows me to do other things in RL (like study and write up college reports etc.). You cannot do this while mission running (combat missions anyway) or ratting. Plus all that minerals gets turned into shiney ships and weapons etc. which you and your corp can use for pewpewpew fun!
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William Hamilton
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Posted - 2007.03.29 05:00:00 -
[17]
Hmm, how about at the start of every cycle a window with a "grid" pops up, and each square of this grid has a little square in it. At the start of a cycle you select a grid square for each laser you wish to activate, larger squares have higher yields. After selecting a square the cycle runs as normal, you get your ore, and then the square is replaced by a new randomly generated square. You need to dump your cargo after every run anyways, so this wouldn't relay hurt the ability to mine and do something else.
To add a little spice perhaps the squares could get different colours, from green to red. After a cycle you get a random variation in your yield, green squares could have 0% variation, while red squares could have + or -10% and then we would have a spectrum of certainties in between. Maybe having survey scanners on your ship would passively make squares more "certain" by reducing the redness and then randomly adding or subtracting square size.
Of course, it would be easy to design a macro that just scanned the screen and clicked on the biggest square, so instead of squares it might be best to use more complex shapes that only the human eye can easily identify, same thing for colour.
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Davlos
Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.03.29 05:07:00 -
[18]
While I think it's a novel idea, it's for the wrong game and genre.
It's unfortunate, I know, but when such a thing becomes implemented for mining, what about combat? People will demand for that too. It'll change the game so drastically, I don't want to imagine what will happen next.
Eve is a game of statistics, figures, arithmetic, etc. I'd like it to remain that way. Could be something fun for a completely new space sim, however. ---------------
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Fader Bane
Black Knight Buccaneers Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 05:19:00 -
[19]
about we keep method we have now, with just lock and click and add a new method similar to what the OP is saying that gives a higher yield / better quality ore. in this way we can still afk mine when we want yet true miners can have a more interesting experience.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.03.29 05:21:00 -
[20]
Quote: All that stuff could be handled client side.
You can't handle anything like that clientside because that's where people hack it.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - "Your weapons deactivate as the eve servers begin to explode." |
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RaWBLooD
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:25:00 -
[21]
its a good idea, hasnt it already been discussed that in the new version of eve you will be able to traget specific parts of ships ? to leave mining in the rudimentary form it is in now would be lack of respect to the miners; lack of consistency to the game for that matter. miners-you can: switch, rob, wardec, nerf, scam them, buy below market, pirate them on their way to sell. mining < trading, ratting, manufacturing from market bought minerals,they still wont go away |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:35:00 -
[22]
Totally disagree. I have enoygh problems with RSI without adding a playstation element to the game. That would simply cut out mining for me.
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Shimizu Taiki
Gallente Terra Incognita Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:36:00 -
[23]
I am a miner. I train mostly mining skills and I read all the mining related posts. I see all the complaints about mining made by miners and the people that complain they can't stand mining and think we are all looney or macroers.
I had an idea. Let's leave it as it is.
Yarr! I pirated your words! ----------------------- Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil
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RingWraithe
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:56:00 -
[24]
right now mining is boring... however if u switched it to fpv then it would be tedious and boring.. the only way i can see it working is if finding the vein GREATLY increased your yeild.. then they could give u an option on which way u want to mine. so if u dont feel like thinking that day u can reg mine.. but if u want to make some fast cash then strap on the scope.. imo
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:10:00 -
[25]
I wouldn't want fps style when I run multiple accounts... so not signed on that idea. However I am all for finding veins to yield me some more Veldspar out of them tasty rocks
Help me help you. |
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:12:00 -
[26]
I think changing the way asteroid belts worked would be better honestly - give us much larger, denser belts with veins of good ores running through them that you can follow.
Additionally, I'd probably say add a utility hi-slot to every barge and exhumer so they can mount tractor beams and tow their jet cans as they wander through these bigger belts.
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WredStorm
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.03.29 13:53:00 -
[27]
FPS roid mining has now been implemented! Check it out here.
Wred ----- If everyone had to have at least a room-temperature IQ in order to post in these forums, we'd all end up reading a hell of a lot less verbal-diarrhea. |
Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2007.03.29 17:51:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Alora Venoda
Originally by: Cloora
Yeah that would be nice. I ahte how you get a massive Veld roid and it goes from huge to POP! its gone. That would be awesome if you saw the roid get eaten away or at least get smaller.
yeah, when i first started i actually thought they would shrink like that... i was a bit dissappointed to learn they dont.
Yup, me too. /sign for better mining animations!
This Space Reserved until my sexy new sig is completed. :) |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 21:15:00 -
[29]
Make mining a mini-game, like Bejewelled.
For every combo you clear, mins flow into your cargohold like chocolate covered raisins from the easter bunny!
//ps. those aren't raisins!
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