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0raven0
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.02 05:28:00 -
[1]
So, zydrine is at an all time low, megacyte is rising and some of the low ends are absolutely soaring, but does anyone know why? I am sure some people study these things and it would be a great help if I could know why zydrine has crashed.
My only guess is it all has to do with the drops of drones in the new regions. If they are the reason than they need to be fixed so they don't drop high ends. An NPCer does not require skill investment as a hardcore miner does and now mining is becoming less and less profitable.
So last question is what should a miner do now with crashing prices if you have no access to ark? ------
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Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding Zzz
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Posted - 2007.04.02 05:56:00 -
[2]
My money would be on a mass macro miner ban. It would just show how much they contributed to the Eve economy. Now that a great portion of them are gone (or restarting), empire prices have reacted. Insured Research and Production Services Queues |
D Mackiller
Minmatar Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
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Posted - 2007.04.02 11:03:00 -
[3]
Originally by: 0raven0 So, zydrine is at an all time low, megacyte is rising and some of the low ends are absolutely soaring, but does anyone know why? I am sure some people study these things and it would be a great help if I could know why zydrine has crashed.
My only guess is it all has to do with the drops of drones in the new regions. If they are the reason than they need to be fixed so they don't drop high ends. An NPCer does not require skill investment as a hardcore miner does and now mining is becoming less and less profitable.
So last question is what should a miner do now with crashing prices if you have no access to ark?
Its probably most likely to do with the mineral drops from the drone regions. However, there is nothing wrong with this. Its just the natural rise and fall of mineral prices. If you don't have access to ark, mine something else. A lot of people don't have access to drone rats, I don't see them complaining. Also, a "hardcore" NPCer does require a fair bit of skill investment, probably about equal to a hardcore miner. There is no reason to take high ends out of the drone drops.
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Kritinana
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Posted - 2007.04.02 11:26:00 -
[4]
I highly doubt its a 'mass macro ban'. Most of the isk farmers/macro's do actually have a pilot behind the wheel of those minnie barge armies, and the difficulty w/ banning them lies in actually proving that they're using scripts/selling isk. I can say with 100% certainty that roughly 80-90% of the farmers i see today are the same characters that i saw a year ago. They've been reported countless times by myself and i'm sure many others...to no avail.
That said, I must agree w/ the fella above me. The drones from the new regions have introduced a large amount of zyd into the market that was not previously there. I'd go so far as to say that this also has a bit to do with who is bringing it into the market. Since it's coming from drones/rats you have combat oriented pilots bringing to market, many of whom i'm sure would've never bothered mining it from roids. Thus you have new 'psuedo miners' to compete with ').
What should you do? ......Mine something else, don't know what else say there. *shrugs*
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.02 12:42:00 -
[5]
biggest reason that those drone compounds are flooding the market is the lack of useful amounts of tritanium and such in those same drone regions. difficult to build things means the minerals are useless out there in the dark and are being dumped into the hisec markets by the carrier-load. boost the amount of tritanium out there.. by.. hrm.. fixing the asteroids? or at least increasing the drop of trit-producing drone compounds.
your milage may vary, of course.
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2007.04.02 14:06:00 -
[6]
Mineral price change key reasons:
-Macro ban now less miners for highsec minerals, will take some time to balance again. -War! Alliances dumping high end minerals to support long wars. -Drone region alot of rare alloy that gived high end yields -New ships Not a major problem now but they helped spike the prices. Prices get high quickly but fall slowly.
Fix -Time it will ballance after a while with more new players ect.
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Nicholai Thomasovich
Caldari Acerbus Vindictum
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Posted - 2007.04.02 14:43:00 -
[7]
The real REASON behind the changes is the fact that it's a free-market system. Factors such as macro-miners, wars, changes in production such as Tier 2 and Tier 3 ships and rigs, and drone drops all affect the system, but they're not the REASON behind the change.
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2007.04.02 14:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nicholai Thomasovich The real REASON behind the changes is the fact that it's a free-market system. Factors such as macro-miners, wars, changes in production such as Tier 2 and Tier 3 ships and rigs, and drone drops all affect the system, but they're not the REASON behind the change.
Even though it is a free market and a open market there is a catalist to the change. Unlike what T2 used to be and somewhat still is was changing by a whim minerals have to have a reason to change. increase demand for low end and over supply of high end minerals is the reason.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.04.02 19:52:00 -
[9]
Akita T has explained the mineral market in a lot more complexity and depth and what I believe is accuracy than anyone else.
His basic assertions are that there is a minimum price that mineral prices can reach. There is also a maximum price that certain minerals can reach. The maximum is due to NPC goods that can be melted down for minerals. The minimum price is due to insurance payouts on destroyed ships. The price for minerals won't go below this value overall because otherwise people would just buy up minerals, buy ships and pay for insurance and blow it up for a profit.
Because of this, if the price of one mineral is going up then other minerals need to drop in price. The more minerals going up in price the more other minerals need to drop to offset this. So basically overall the market needs to maintain some level of balance. Now it may be that the products you're producing are raising or lowering in price because they require more or less of the minerals that are going up or going down currently. But overall the market will never change too drastically because it can't.
As to the specific reasons for prices, it is always going to be a combination of many things.
1. Much easier access to Zyd in the new regions. Increasing Zyd supply means that prices will drop due to supply being greater than demand at the current price point. As Zyd prices it forces up prices of other minerals.
2. Macro-Miner bans. Decreasing high sec mineral supply means that prices will rise as there is not enough supply to meet current demand. This causes prices of low end minerals to drop to keep overall prices somewhat in check.
3. Massive wars down south. The large wars with lots of capital ships and battleships getting blown up causes an increase in the demand for these ships, as replacements. Thus all sorts of minerals are required heavily, but some more so than others... meaning the most heavily required minerals will raise while the others will drop a bit to compensate.
4. T2 market is crashing. I really don't know exactly what impact this will have... but it definitely will have some impact on the mineral market. If wealth becomes more evenly spread out across the field then this will be a very good thing for the market in general as the little guys will have more money to spend on more items and the big guys will not be making absurd amounts off these little guys anymore.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Ezra
Gallente Calista Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.02 23:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vincent Almasy Mineral price change key reasons:
-Macro ban now less miners for highsec minerals, will take some time to balance again.
Fix -Time it will ballance after a while with more new players ect.
Minimal to zero effect actually. Even if most macroers are banned, a good portion of highsec empire systems are basically depleted of roids. You can't even find good scord roids in a 0.5. There's no point in mining scord/veld in 0.4 or less (risk/reward not worth it). As a result, trit/py prices are soaring because there simply aren't enough roids.
The macroers have been focusing on ice rather than normal ore for a LONG time due to this "pebble roid" phenomenon.
CCP added a bunch of new 0.0 regions that increased highend mineral supply and added new ships that increased demand for all minerals, but did nothing to increase supply of lowend minerals. End result - massive spike in lowend prices, up to just below NPC-set market caps. (I forget the exact values, but it's something like 2.7-3 ISK/unit for trit and 9ish for pyer. Prices would probably be higher if not for these "infinite NPC supply of refinable item" market price caps.)
Fix - Definately not time. Either an increase in roid growth rate, or adding new empire regions to complement the 0.0 regions and relieve crowding. ------------ Ezra Cornell
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0raven0
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.02 23:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: D Mackiller
Originally by: 0raven0 So, zydrine is at an all time low, megacyte is rising and some of the low ends are absolutely soaring, but does anyone know why? I am sure some people study these things and it would be a great help if I could know why zydrine has crashed.
My only guess is it all has to do with the drops of drones in the new regions. If they are the reason than they need to be fixed so they don't drop high ends. An NPCer does not require skill investment as a hardcore miner does and now mining is becoming less and less profitable.
So last question is what should a miner do now with crashing prices if you have no access to ark?
Its probably most likely to do with the mineral drops from the drone regions. However, there is nothing wrong with this. Its just the natural rise and fall of mineral prices. If you don't have access to ark, mine something else. A lot of people don't have access to drone rats, I don't see them complaining. Also, a "hardcore" NPCer does require a fair bit of skill investment, probably about equal to a hardcore miner. There is no reason to take high ends out of the drone drops.
I have NPCed level 4 missions and done 0.0 ratting for almost 2 years now. Being able to do level 4 missions does take some skills but not near that of what a miner in a hulk requires. NPCing in 0.0 requires little to no skills, just fit a tank, damage and your done. You can have everything perfect after 2-3months from game start not including learning skills, a good ratting setup costs about 50-70m while a hulk was at 600m until two weeks ago. In no way should NPCing ever bring near the ISK flow of mining, EVER. Mining is more skill intensive, repetitive and boring. ------
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0raven0
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.03 00:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shadarle Akita T has explained the mineral market in a lot more complexity and depth and what I believe is accuracy than anyone else.
His basic assertions are that there is a minimum price that mineral prices can reach. There is also a maximum price that certain minerals can reach. The maximum is due to NPC goods that can be melted down for minerals. The minimum price is due to insurance payouts on destroyed ships. The price for minerals won't go below this value overall because otherwise people would just buy up minerals, buy ships and pay for insurance and blow it up for a profit.
Because of this, if the price of one mineral is going up then other minerals need to drop in price. The more minerals going up in price the more other minerals need to drop to offset this. So basically overall the market needs to maintain some level of balance. Now it may be that the products you're producing are raising or lowering in price because they require more or less of the minerals that are going up or going down currently. But overall the market will never change too drastically because it can't.
As to the specific reasons for prices, it is always going to be a combination of many things.
1. Much easier access to Zyd in the new regions. Increasing Zyd supply means that prices will drop due to supply being greater than demand at the current price point. As Zyd prices it forces up prices of other minerals.
2. Macro-Miner bans. Decreasing high sec mineral supply means that prices will rise as there is not enough supply to meet current demand. This causes prices of low end minerals to drop to keep overall prices somewhat in check.
3. Massive wars down south. The large wars with lots of capital ships and battleships getting blown up causes an increase in the demand for these ships, as replacements. Thus all sorts of minerals are required heavily, but some more so than others... meaning the most heavily required minerals will raise while the others will drop a bit to compensate.
4. T2 market is crashing. I really don't know exactly what impact this will have... but it definitely will have some impact on the mineral market. If wealth becomes more evenly spread out across the field then this will be a very good thing for the market in general as the little guys will have more money to spend on more items and the big guys will not be making absurd amounts off these little guys anymore.
Your post hit the nail on the top of the head for me, you and Akita T have my gratitude. ------
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Topaz Skydiver
Minmatar Narrative Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.04.03 04:33:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 03/04/2007 04:30:01
Originally by: 0raven0
Originally by: D Mackiller
Originally by: 0raven0 So, zydrine is at an all time low, megacyte is rising and some of the low ends are absolutely soaring, but does anyone know why? I am sure some people study these things and it would be a great help if I could know why zydrine has crashed.
My only guess is it all has to do with the drops of drones in the new regions. If they are the reason than they need to be fixed so they don't drop high ends. An NPCer does not require skill investment as a hardcore miner does and now mining is becoming less and less profitable.
So last question is what should a miner do now with crashing prices if you have no access to ark?
Its probably most likely to do with the mineral drops from the drone regions. However, there is nothing wrong with this. Its just the natural rise and fall of mineral prices. If you don't have access to ark, mine something else. A lot of people don't have access to drone rats, I don't see them complaining. Also, a "hardcore" NPCer does require a fair bit of skill investment, probably about equal to a hardcore miner. There is no reason to take high ends out of the drone drops.
I have NPCed level 4 missions and done 0.0 ratting for almost 2 years now. Being able to do level 4 missions does take some skills but not near that of what a miner in a hulk requires. NPCing in 0.0 requires little to no skills, just fit a tank, damage and your done. You can have everything perfect after 2-3months from game start not including learning skills, a good ratting setup costs about 50-70m while a hulk was at 600m until two weeks ago. In no way should NPCing ever bring near the ISK flow of mining, EVER. Mining is more skill intensive, repetitive and boring.
Hulk price is not really an argument, because the hulk is x-times more expensive than a covetor, but the difference in mining yield is not huge. My ratting ships are usually more expensive than a covetor with tech-2 miners and crystals e.g. I usually use a ratting raven with tech-2 launchers and 3-4 tech-2 ballistic controls, so by that argument I should have an advantage over the covetor.
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Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar ORKS
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Posted - 2007.04.03 05:43:00 -
[14]
I have been playing the game for a year and there have been many times that I have kicked myself for not being in on the various ISK money making opportunities like the low zyd prices.
So mine the zyd like crazy and save it for the inevitable price rise. Ride the pyer/trit wave while you can and make your isk there.
At the current 'Eve-Central' Ore index prices you get the following amount per can of ore:
Veld: 2.0m Scord: 2.8m Pyrox: 2.2m Plag: 2.2m Omber: 2.4m Kern: 2.8m Jasp: 2.7m Hemo: 3.3m Hedb: 3.8m Gneiss: 4.2m Dk Ochr: 4.5m Spod: 2.6m Crok: 7.3m Bist: 8.8m Ark: 10.3m
Crok, Bist and Ark aside, ISK for risk shows that high-sec ores are the way to go for miners at the moment.
Mik
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Graalum
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.03 06:35:00 -
[15]
problem 1: not enough trit/pye/mex on the market in empire. Simply too few people mining in empire for low ends now days. Noone has mentioned it yet, but what effect have privateers had on this? I know that we have a guy with 3 hulk accounts that would sit in a .9 and suck veld/scord/plag all day and make like 30 mil isk an hour or something crazy like that. Now he's sitting in 0.0 mining ochre, crock and bistot.
Problem 2: Drones. Their drops need a good look into (too much zyd/morphite, too little trit/pye/mex/iso), they are far too easy to kill, and there are too many people ratting them. Further, drones have no hauler spawns and no refinable loot (a great and underutilized source of minerals imho). Finally, mining in drone regions sucks, all the rocks are empty, so its very tough to get low and mid-ends in reasonable quantities. That means that all those drone alloys come to empire, and zyd/morphite prices drop into the gutter.
I don't think the "macro ban" had much of an effect, In my opinion many/most of those weren't isk farmers but actually peoples alts used to fund their pvping and whatever. These people are tough to do much about, while they may be using bots, thats very hard to show, and there isn't much of an isk trail either.
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.04.03 08:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mik Nostrebor I have been playing the game for a year and there have been many times that I have kicked myself for not being in on the various ISK money making opportunities like the low zyd prices.
So mine the zyd like crazy and save it for the inevitable price rise. Ride the pyer/trit wave while you can and make your isk there.
At the current 'Eve-Central' Ore index prices you get the following amount per can of ore:
Veld: 2.0m Scord: 2.8m Pyrox: 2.2m Plag: 2.2m Omber: 2.4m Kern: 2.8m Jasp: 2.7m Hemo: 3.3m Hedb: 3.8m Gneiss: 4.2m Dk Ochr: 4.5m Spod: 2.6m Crok: 7.3m Bist: 8.8m Ark: 10.3m
Crok, Bist and Ark aside, ISK for risk shows that high-sec ores are the way to go for miners at the moment.
Mik
What are the exact prices you're using? My "napkin" calculations don't show as much of a spread on Crok vs. Scord for example. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Liv Dawn
PPN United Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.04.03 10:46:00 -
[17]
Quote: The maximum is due to NPC goods that can be melted down for minerals. The minimum price is due to insurance payouts on destroyed ships. The price for minerals won't go below this value overall because otherwise people would just buy up minerals, buy ships and pay for insurance and blow it up for a profit.
Because of this, if the price of one mineral is going up then other minerals need to drop in price.
this conclusion seems strange to me. it would be correct if you assume that your workforce and demand are in fixed relations. but since eve is a game the players try to max their fun and profit over time, so mining is a perfect example for that. the miners will mine exactly that what the market is asking for or what they expect to be their best bet in the future by stockpiling now lower selling but easier accessable ores.
so if low end minerals fall in price people will either specialise and try to max their current yield out to get the rest of profit available or they ll leave the business by paying the lock-in costs of learned skills and investing in a new profession. exploration comes to mind for me as a promising, easy to learn and close to the miner lying profession. those leaving miners now try to make much more money with exploration and occasionally strip the nice hidden belts in lowsec which leads to an andditional stream of mid-value ores which provide zydrine.
of course the other reason explain the price change too, some might even have a greater impact, like the drone regions, but personally i believe not many do actually like the profits of lowminmining and are attracted alot by new content, which is similar to mining activities. (sitting afk and waiting for your scan to complete)
in the end it will of course come to a balancing effect. but this wont be the old price or anything, just the value of zydrine compared to its risk, labour, investment costs to get it. the current low is just an overrated price shock if you ask me and speculating people will drive it up again.
as a sidenote - some economists believe that the market is always in balance and prices are always reflecting supply and demand. but dont be dazzled by economists too much. its just a describing model with assumptions like transport costs of zero and even more important total information and transparency of all participants, which you can easyly guess isnt true and opens alot possibilities to make money.
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0raven0
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.03 15:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Topaz Skydiver Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 03/04/2007 04:30:01
Originally by: 0raven0
Originally by: D Mackiller
Originally by: 0raven0 So, zydrine is at an all time low, megacyte is rising and some of the low ends are absolutely soaring, but does anyone know why? I am sure some people study these things and it would be a great help if I could know why zydrine has crashed.
My only guess is it all has to do with the drops of drones in the new regions. If they are the reason than they need to be fixed so they don't drop high ends. An NPCer does not require skill investment as a hardcore miner does and now mining is becoming less and less profitable.
So last question is what should a miner do now with crashing prices if you have no access to ark?
Its probably most likely to do with the mineral drops from the drone regions. However, there is nothing wrong with this. Its just the natural rise and fall of mineral prices. If you don't have access to ark, mine something else. A lot of people don't have access to drone rats, I don't see them complaining. Also, a "hardcore" NPCer does require a fair bit of skill investment, probably about equal to a hardcore miner. There is no reason to take high ends out of the drone drops.
I have NPCed level 4 missions and done 0.0 ratting for almost 2 years now. Being able to do level 4 missions does take some skills but not near that of what a miner in a hulk requires. NPCing in 0.0 requires little to no skills, just fit a tank, damage and your done. You can have everything perfect after 2-3months from game start not including learning skills, a good ratting setup costs about 50-70m while a hulk was at 600m until two weeks ago. In no way should NPCing ever bring near the ISK flow of mining, EVER. Mining is more skill intensive, repetitive and boring.
Hulk price is not really an argument, because the hulk is x-times more expensive than a covetor, but the difference in mining yield is not huge. My ratting ships are usually more expensive than a covetor with tech-2 miners and crystals e.g. I usually use a ratting raven with tech-2 launchers and 3-4 tech-2 ballistic controls, so by that argument I should have an advantage over the covetor.
Nah the difference is huge, a maxed out hulk pilot can mine almost 75% more than a maxed our covetor. Even something like a 20% difference would still be considered huge in the mining world. ------
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Christopher Dalran
Gallente Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.03 16:00:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 03/04/2007 15:59:36 Heres what i have noticed.
Drones in the new regions drop Ore that has alot of high end minerals in it (mostly zydrine) however the asteroid belts SUCK for trit and pyrite. For whatever reason those asteroids just pop way too fast and dont have enough in them.
Markets in 0.0 are also completly player run, there are no NPC corps seeding modules, and there are NO rats dropping them either (in drone regions) so EVERYTHING needs to be made by the people out there for sale to each other. All modules take alot of trit and pyrite mainly (also alot of mex) and sice those minerals are difficult to get in 0.0 drone regions there is only 1 option.
You MUST mine/rat the good ore and tow it into empire to sell , then you must use that ISK to BUY all the tri/pyrite/mex that you could ever possibly need and compress it to take out to 0.0 where to reprocess it back into minerals and manufacture modules for use/sale. There are NO bounties in drone regions so selling high end minerals in empire is the only way to get the isk to but the low end minerals
Its the massive importation of high end minerals into Empire space for sale and the massive exportation of low end minerals into 0.0 that is causing this.
In summary I believe the following points are DIRECTLY Cause the mineral price flux 1. High availability of high end minerals in new drone regions but shortage of low end minerals 2. Minerals drop instead of Modules (all must be manufactured) 3. No bounties on Drones, ALL isk must be obtained selling in empire
I believe all other issues (ie. wars) are not the CAUSE but do serve to exasperate the problem by increasing the demand for ships/modules in the 0.0 drone regions. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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Liv Dawn
PPN United Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.04.03 16:28:00 -
[20]
I doubt that the new regions do have such a huge impact on the mineral market. It is of course a regional problem but i think this would and will be solved by trade and the additional incentives higher lowminprices have. The question is, why does this take so long and where are all the lil' empire miners? Cause just because of new regions the total demand for minerals didnt switch sicnificantly.
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elite11
Hakata Group Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.03 18:15:00 -
[21]
To all of you ratters saying that your setups are just as skill intensive as the miners' (me), and using that as a means of arguing that it's reasonable for you to get high end minerals out of ratting, here's a bit from a miner's perspective:
First off, it's NOT ok for you to be getting minerals out of ratting because it's caused a massive over-supply of Zydrine, which is now at an all time low. To put things into perspective for you, how would you like it if CCP introduced a new area where the roids, instead of yielding ore and hence minerals, yielded, say, officer items. How about us miners get an Estamel Tharchon roid that yields a nice officer item on a one hour cycle? Then all of your precious and once monopolized items would be flooding the market not just from your continued efforts, but from miners' as well.
Secondly, if you want to compare prices on your solo-fittings for ratting and mining in 0.0, that's an automatic loss. Mining solo in 0.0 means you have to fly a shield-tanked Hulk with mostly officer fittings to where the fittings alone cost upwards of 400m, not to mention the price of the Hulk itself. A T2 fitted raven costs, at worst, 350m with current T2 prices from invention.
Cheers.
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Christopher Dalran
Gallente Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.03 20:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Liv Dawn I doubt that the new regions do have such a huge impact on the mineral market. It is of course a regional problem but i think this would and will be solved by trade and the additional incentives higher lowminprices have. The question is, why does this take so long and where are all the lil' empire miners? Cause just because of new regions the total demand for minerals didnt switch sicnificantly.
Actually they do have a large impact, alot of people who mainly resided in empire moved into the new kali drone regions because the space was not claimed and basically empty. This gave alot of corps/alliances the opportunity to move into 0.0 so they did. Were not just talking about shifting the demand on minerals were also talking about losing Empire miners to the new 0.0 kali regions when their corps moved. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar ORKS
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Posted - 2007.04.03 22:08:00 -
[23]
As far as I can tell there were a number of incidents that have affected the ore prices.
1. The new BC's and BS's ontroduced with revelations saw a huge demand for mins, especially low end mins.
2. The new Drone regions have opened up a new flow of high end minerals.
3. CCP announced that they had banned a couple of hundred macro miner accounts. This reduced the available cheap low ends.
4. Mission loots have been reduced, thereby affecting the reprocessing supply of mins to non-miners.
5. Level 4 missions have been changed around (eg The Assualt) and more players lost BS's to it. I think this is a minor impact though.
Anyone else got other changes that have affected the min prices significantly?
AUSSIE AND KIWI EVE Fansite |
Kermis
Caldari BIGGA DAKKA INDUSTREEZ
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Posted - 2007.04.04 00:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: elite11 To all of you ratters saying that your setups are just as skill intensive as the miners' (me), and using that as a means of arguing that it's reasonable for you to get high end minerals out of ratting, here's a bit from a miner's perspective:
First off, it's NOT ok for you to be getting minerals out of ratting because it's caused a massive over-supply of Zydrine, which is now at an all time low. To put things into perspective for you, how would you like it if CCP introduced a new area where the roids, instead of yielding ore and hence minerals, yielded, say, officer items. How about us miners get an Estamel Tharchon roid that yields a nice officer item on a one hour cycle? Then all of your precious and once monopolized items would be flooding the market not just from your continued efforts, but from miners' as well.
Secondly, if you want to compare prices on your solo-fittings for ratting and mining in 0.0, that's an automatic loss. Mining solo in 0.0 means you have to fly a shield-tanked Hulk with mostly officer fittings to where the fittings alone cost upwards of 400m, not to mention the price of the Hulk itself. A T2 fitted raven costs, at worst, 350m with current T2 prices from invention.
Cheers.
Yeah, please stop looting the drones, damnit!
I think, if CCP should do anything at all, is increase the roid size in Empire (Everywhere I go, scord roids are nearly empty!), and maybe have drones drop more common alloys, or something else entirely. (Rig parts, anyone?)
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Ninjja
Minmatar Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2007.04.04 00:57:00 -
[25]
buy buy buy!
When mins go down, buy fast and build! mins go down faster than ship/mod prices.
dont forget to rip of your friendly neighborhood regions.
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Esurnir
Amarr Bears Inc FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.04 01:18:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Esurnir on 04/04/2007 01:15:12 The new bs is a huge low end consumption, 13+ mil instead of 8+, that's a big increase. People want the best ? People want the "Insert your favorite t3 bs here". It's a huge trit/pyerite/mex sink.
Zydrine ? It's the drone region that cause it. There is a huge supply of zydrine hauled each day back to empire.
Megacyte? Frankly I don't really now, the drone region drop "a bit" of megacyte due to the rat, I got no problem to find arkonor (even if the droid are really litle), supply didnt changed a lot, the demand?
Oh and if you got no access to ark : mine bistot. And ark isn't that difficult to find. ----
Quote: Thou shall pew pew.
Book of Revelation 12, 51 |
Liam Money
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.04 19:05:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Liam Money on 04/04/2007 19:02:41 There are a lot of people building right now rather than selling minerals as you said Zydrine is at an all time low. Rather than take the "loss" of selling the Zydrine at low prices these people are buying up Trit, Pyre, and Mex as fast as they can to build ships and sell them. While some ship prices have dropped, they have not dropped that much, and thus helps the Zydrine hold its higher value. This is causing the high prices we see in Trit, Pyre, and Mex. If you fly around the belts in high sec you will see people are mining all the scordite and leaving the other mins, sometims they grab the pyroxeres, but thats about it.
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0raven0
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.04 20:43:00 -
[28]
So you guys think Zydrine will ever make it back up to 4k? ------ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Shufo ([email protected]) |
Firid Soulbane
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.04.04 23:02:00 -
[29]
I think exploration belts have a large impact on the fluctuating mineral prices. Have you ever found a large explo belt? There are huge amounts of ore in those and since the kind of ore you get there are allways equal to or better than what you would normally find, it means that a lot of miners are mining better ore.
Another thing is the huge amount of minerals being used in capital ship building. More and more pilots are flying capitals and dying too.
Someone posted mineral prices pr. can but you also have to take the refined volume into consideration. If you have a frig loaded with mega you would need a freighter to move the same value in trit. For this reason some ppl will prefer to mine higher end ore even if you could get same or better price for a lower end ore with a higher refined volume.
All in all this means that supply of high end minerals are increasing and low ends are decreasing/stagnating. Trit is pricecapped at around 2.5 due to reprocessing npc goods bought on market. Imagine what would happen if they removed this pricecap.
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Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar ORKS
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Posted - 2007.04.05 00:00:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Mik Nostrebor on 04/04/2007 23:58:56
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Originally by: Mik Nostrebor I have been playing the game for a year and there have been many times that I have kicked myself for not being in on the various ISK money making opportunities like the low zyd prices.
So mine the zyd like crazy and save it for the inevitable price rise. Ride the pyer/trit wave while you can and make your isk there.
At the current 'Eve-Central' Ore index prices you get the following amount per can of ore:
Veld: 2.0m Scord: 2.8m Pyrox: 2.2m Plag: 2.2m Omber: 2.4m Kern: 2.8m Jasp: 2.7m Hemo: 3.3m Hedb: 3.8m Gneiss: 4.2m Dk Ochr: 4.5m Spod: 2.6m Crok: 7.3m Bist: 8.8m Ark: 10.3m
Crok, Bist and Ark aside, ISK for risk shows that high-sec ores are the way to go for miners at the moment.
Mik
What are the exact prices you're using? My "napkin" calculations don't show as much of a spread on Crok vs. Scord for example.
The prices (as stated) came from the Eve-Central mine feed. The mine feed can be access via EveMon if you like or visit the http://eve-central.com site. As far as I know these are the average of the latest prices that players submit via the in-game export button in the market browser.
The current prices are: Trit: 2.39 (down a bit today) Pyer: 7.33 (down more today) Mex: 20.47 (Up a smidgeon) Iso: 85.41 (Stable) Nocx: 287.49 (Down a bit) Zyd: 1743.41 (Stable) Mega: 3081.66 Morph: 2816.18 (amazing)
The other factor to consider is that my refining skills are affecting the calcs, though I would have thought that would make the gap between low and high greater. I have refining 5, ref eff 3, and only processing skills for veld, scord, pyerox, plag to 3; omber to 1 and Jaspet to 1.
Mik
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