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exxorr
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2007.04.05 05:46:00 -
[1]
Edited by: exxorr on 05/04/2007 05:42:58
Seeing as how you plan to replace the t2 lottery with invention, why not follow the same path with complex's. No one has any faith in complex's (except of course those that have been milking them) SO WHY NOT MAKE THEM ALL RANDOM AND ACCESSIBLE ONLY BY EXPLORATION????
It would solve a lot of the current contensious issues such as exploits, plex whoring to rl sell mods etc etc etc.
Anyway, some mature input only please.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.04.05 05:52:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/04/2007 05:48:56
As I said in another thread, I'd love this.
Right now, static complexes give a huge edge to two sets of players:
1) Farmers, both in empire and in 0.0, who can lock most players out of the complexes if they're good
2) Huge 0.0 alliances like Band of Brothers, Red Alliance, Dusk and Dawn, and others, who run absurd numbers of complexes for billions of ISK.
Anything that would reduce their strength and give a boon to newer players would be good for EVE.
IMO, all static complexes should be moved to exploration only, and made a great deal harder (currently even most 10/10s can be run with two or three battleships).
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio (back up, new address!) |
Hail Xenu
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Posted - 2007.04.05 06:03:00 -
[3]
I like them. Unlike unlimited resources like ratting, mining, missions and exploration complexes then they force you to fight. Some of the best fights I've been in occured on complex gates.
If you want a piece of the action then you'll have to take it.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.04.05 06:11:00 -
[4]
I agree completely.
I am amazed that CCP let these things in like this. It is nothing new to MMOs to have people camp stuff 24/7 when you have a static spawn that drops great loot. I cringe at memories of Everwait (Everquest) going after some item only to find 50 people camping it. They should have seen this coming a mile away.
In no way does this promote good or fun gameplay. Go run a COSMOS mission and see all the peeps camped on a can. I just want my one run through and whatever rewards I can get from it. Instead I have to contend with someone who sits on a can and has it perfectly timed to nab whatever is in there (or perhaps a macro helping them...whatever...just try for the what pops in there and it you'll see it is an exercise in futility).
Weird part is CCP already has the basis for changing this in place in the form or Exploration. Why they remain so silent on the matter and leave things be is beyond me.
I hate having to don my tinfoil hat but the only reason I can see is as players in Alliances they (or their Alliance whichever ones they may be) benefit from them so much they are reluctant to change. It seems such an obvious and necessary change. Can anyone defend the things as they are?
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Rikeka
Amarr
Eye of God
X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.04.05 06:28:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Rikeka on 05/04/2007 06:26:12
This reminds me of the Jedi spawn points in the SWG game.
Sony had to give us Dark Jedi Masters chars to counter this guys spawn points, kill them, and free the spawn.
If Sony, which screwed up a game so good as Star Wars Galaxies, learned from this, I expect CCP will do too...
In time, of course. It`s CCP.
[EDIT] LOL, been told that it`s possible those Jedis farmers are now in EvE, and that now they know who I am.
You know what? Bring it!
HAHAHAHA!
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Malcanis
Galactech Industries Ltd.
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.05 06:30:00 -
[6]
Agreed. Static complexes add nothing to the game, with the possible exception of the level 1-2 ones for the benefit of new players.
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Voculus
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.05 07:50:00 -
[7]
CCP has no plans to alter the current state of static complexes, as it would affect the bottom line of their favorite alliance.
_________________________________________________________
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exxorr
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2007.04.05 07:54:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Voculus
CCP has no plans to alter the current state of static complexes, as it would affect the bottom line of their favorite alliance.
Which allaince you refering to? BoB or RA?
Cause it seems to effect each quite a bit but only one of them plays the game just for the complex's and the yeilds within.
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Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.05 08:02:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Del Narveux on 05/04/2007 07:59:01
If anything they need to be adding *more* static plexes, and up the quantity of drops. It would be nice if someday plex drops (talking about faction frigs/cruisers, specifically) become common enough to be more than a collectors item for rich people who never use them.
Also there needs to be a whole lot more cosmos constellations, like assign one or two content guys to do nothing but add cosmos related stuff all across the cluster. The problem wiht them now is you have all the farmers and such crammed into a couple of systems.
_________________
[SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler
Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Ozzie Asrail
Exploited
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Posted - 2007.04.05 08:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Del Narveux
Edited by: Del Narveux on 05/04/2007 07:59:01
If anything they need to be adding *more* static plexes, and up the quantity of drops. It would be nice if someday plex drops (talking about faction frigs/cruisers, specifically) become common enough to be more than a collectors item for rich people who never use them.
Also there needs to be a whole lot more cosmos constellations, like assign one or two content guys to do nothing but add cosmos related stuff all across the cluster. The problem wiht them now is you have all the farmers and such crammed into a couple of systems.
Not really. Many faction cruisers are less than the price of a hac. Alot of the cheaper faction modules (ie. not the best of type ones) are pretty affordable.
Personally I don't like that fact that these complexes can be farmed at all. Especially because of the way the keys work and the fact most the cosmos ones are in high sec.
-----
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.05 09:11:00 -
[11]
I want to support the OP.
Static complex are a bad idea.
The level 1-3 can be kept for the new players who haven't yet developed the skills to explore, the rest should be moving at least on the constellation level.
As CCP is trying to reduce isk inflow, complex are a source at least on par with the missions, if not larger, and done by way less people.
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Viktor VonCarstein
Amarr
Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.05 09:34:00 -
[12]
/Signed.
With exploration there is now no need for Static Complexes other than to be farmed for lots of isk/uber loot.
This will allow other people a chance at running these plexes whether they are in 0.0, Low Sec or High Sec.
http://sprayandpray.xippy.co.uk |
Nyana
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Posted - 2007.04.05 09:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I want to support the OP.
Static complex are a bad idea.
The level 1-3 can be kept for the new players who haven't yet developed the skills to explore, the rest should be moving at least on the constellation level.
As CCP is trying to reduce isk inflow, complex are a source at least on par with the missions, if not larger, and done by way less people.
Sounds good to me 
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.04.05 09:43:00 -
[14]
It is good to have places of big importance (like those complexes now) so that people can fight over them and wage wars to gain control over them!
Removing the static complexes and making everything completely random removes a nice feature from the game and the need to fight for them.
However, we hear all the time that they are bugged and procude billions and billons of isk each day (for RA, BoB and whomever else). That is not good and needs to be changed.
But to make the complexes totally random? I don't think this is good. Everyone can carebear then in 0.0-npc and there wouldn't be any need for true 0.0. I'm not sure if I would like this...
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.05 09:48:00 -
[15]
I was actualy thinking of complexes on the way to work this morning and came up with an alternative idea.
Each region has a set amount of complexes (There are far too many complexes down south but anyways I digress)
I propose the complexes move to random systems whithin that region every few days.
RP reasoning: What NPC faction in its right mind would contnue to rebuild ships to defend its assets in a complex when they keep on getting slaughtered. After they have lost too many ships they pack up and move to another system within that region.
It would also be nice that they didnt suddenly disapear and reapear in the next system, instead a convoy of these rats (of course not the whole complex full lol) would then move out to the next system set up camp (new complex location) untill they got farmed too much and moved camp again.
or of course just exploration, just wanted to share my idea with you lot, comments are welcome, flames arent.
This post is purely my opninion and does not represent that of my corp alliance or wife. |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.04.05 09:52:00 -
[16]
Static complexes have only 1 redeeming feature, they're great to fight over. I remember the awesome fights with Hedgehogs in a Fog (some alt corp, dunno whose anymore) over the D-F plex, with raging battles over the plex gate.
On the other hand, the continually returning bugs/exploits and the fact that its very much like an instance means that it should be changed IMO.
I could imagine CCP should/wants to reimburse people/alliances who have made their decisions based on the locations of these plexes though. Why not remove every 10/10 plex and replace it with making the system -1.0 ratting ground with an added 30 belts to what it was before, flooded with ark/bist/crok/mercoxit. Then they still are stuff you'd want to fight over in a strategic sense, but no longer the domain of a few people hogging them.
Lesser plexes could also be similarly reimbursed but to a (lesser) extent, relative to the profitability of the plex.
--------------
In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.05 10:10:00 -
[17]
You know what my thoughts are? Remove all effects from plex's, nerf the loot drops and also have all plex's respawn once every hour. Also nerf the ability to cloak in a complex. This will make people fight for plex's and aim to control these over a period of a day, and also means that pirates spotting a plex can give it a run and try to gank those inside. With no effects, inflationary mesures are controled to a degree, and the system becomes fair to all regardless of timezone. Obviously loot drops need to be nerfed to prevent everyone having a stockpile of centus gear, but overall spread the reward over the day rather than over the hour before DT and the hour after DT as the current system has now.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.05 10:10:00 -
[18]
You know what my thoughts are? Remove all effects from plex's, nerf the loot drops and also have all plex's respawn once every hour. Also nerf the ability to cloak in a complex. This will make people fight for plex's and aim to control these over a period of a day, and also means that pirates spotting a plex can give it a run and try to gank those inside. With no effects, inflationary mesures are controled to a degree, and the system becomes fair to all regardless of timezone. Obviously loot drops need to be nerfed to prevent everyone having a stockpile of centus gear, but overall spread the reward over the day rather than over the hour before DT and the hour after DT as the current system has now.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Adrian Kerensky
Caldari
STK Scientific
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.04.05 10:27:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Adrian Kerensky on 05/04/2007 10:25:54
Originally by: Dark Shikari
These complexes make more than any tech 2 BPO, but unlike a BPO, cannot be acquired by any player regardless of wealth unless he joins the alliance controlling it.
They can be acquired by people forming up and taking them by force rather than sitting on their backsides and whining about it...
The trouble with this community is that those big alliances with the resources worked hard to get there in the first place, and those that whine about it can't be bothered to do anything about it. They'd rather whine at CCP and hope they get it for free and no work rather than do something worthwhile and have a sense of achievement at the end.
Since when was EVE fair? It isn't, would have thought you of all people would be used to this by now.
I for one wouldn't have it any other way.
[EDIT] Here's a catchy tune: 'If you want the good PvE, you have to do the PvP'
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil
258 bytes over!  |
Cadiz
Caldari
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2007.04.05 10:35:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Cadiz on 05/04/2007 10:32:15
Considering that you can now get deadspace drops from exploration 'plexes (an escalated exploration 'plex I ran with some corpmates of mine a few days ago coughed up multiple Pith C-Type mods upon completion), I'd say it's about high time that they finally got rid of those ridiculous static complexes. Yes, yes, the unlimited isk works are fun, but I think EVE is sufficiently developed that we can move away from such ridiculously abusable pieces of game design and onto more interesting & dynamic content.
Not to mention it'd be a nice kick in the teeth for some of the more prominent isk-farming teams, and anything that hampers isk farmers can only be a good thing. 
------
Director, No Quarter
"There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.04.05 10:36:00 -
[21]
Although I support this idea, I think there maybe a problem with the still somewhat buggy state of exploration.
Remember that exploration has only been implemented for a short while now and some issues still need ironing out with it. As soon as that is done (with some effort this could be soon) then I don't see any problem with removing all static complexes except the noob-plexes.
I don't see how plex whoring is a worthwhile contribution to the game as a whole.
--
Originally by: Kieron
If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.05 10:39:00 -
[22]
In my 3 years of playing I've never completed a complex. They are always camped or the spawns are broken with farmers.
Something needs to change with complexes to allow everyone to use them.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:00:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 05/04/2007 10:56:36
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
In my 3 years of playing I've never completed a complex. They are always camped or the spawns are broken with farmers.
Something needs to change with complexes to allow everyone to use them.
Yep. My idea is they should make all static plex's respawn every hour, prevent cloaking, remove all effects and adjust the loot drop rate to compensate for a 1 hour respawn.
This gives everyone a chance to do them, and even makes it possible for pirates to raid a plex. At the moment, it is just Downtime wars and thats it - plex wars should happen throughout the day.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:10:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/04/2007 11:07:25
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
In my 3 years of playing I've never completed a complex. They are always camped or the spawns are broken with farmers.
Something needs to change with complexes to allow everyone to use them.
Yep. My idea is they should make all static plex's respawn every hour, prevent cloaking, remove all effects and adjust the loot drop rate to compensate for a 1 hour respawn.
This gives everyone a chance to do them, and even makes it possible for pirates to raid a plex. At the moment, it is just Downtime wars and thats it - plex wars should happen throughout the day.
100% agree. ( Sorry, have nothing more to add, just pointing out that there are more players out there, who'd appreciate such a solution. ^^ )
___________
Muuuhhh !!! |
Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:26:00 -
[25]
Static complexes suck.
I tried running complexes twice:
First time, an exploration complex, completed it, killed the battle stations, lost a NH in the process and our group got Miner I and crap like that!
Second time, a corp mate is running a 5/10 in low-sec that we know nobody had used for at least 23 hours (I had been on for that long :P) and the first stage doesn't drop a key or anything.
Solution. REMOVE COMPLEXES!
Mwhahaha.
-
BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Awox
Static complexes suck.
I tried running complexes twice:
First time, an exploration complex, completed it, killed the battle stations, lost a NH in the process and our group got Miner I and crap like that!
Second time, a corp mate is running a 5/10 in low-sec that we know nobody had used for at least 23 hours (I had been on for that long :P) and the first stage doesn't drop a key or anything.
Solution. REMOVE COMPLEXES!
Mwhahaha.
Some exploration complex's are bugged - just bug report them.
As for that static plex, somebody must have just logged in, ninja'ed the key and then logged off, so nobody else can do the plex until he is ready (probebly running another plex with his alts). Happens all time. I even once beat a ninja'er at his own game by carrying spare keys.
So the moral of the story is to carry spare keys where possible and do the plex that way. Not ideal, but better than nothing.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
heheheh
Singularity.
The Cartel.
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:39:00 -
[27]
complexs should indeed be random,
keeping them where they are is just proof that the devs favour BOB.
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Raem Civrie
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:45:00 -
[28]
Originally by: heheheh
complexs should indeed be random,
keeping them where they are is just proof that the devs favour BOB.
As much as I agree with this thread, you people really need to stop doing that. BoB isn't the only territorial alliance with an exclusive claim to the best complexes in their space.
----
All you do is bark. You never meow. |
Viktor VonCarstein
Amarr
Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Adrian Kerensky
Edited by: Adrian Kerensky on 05/04/2007 10:25:54
Originally by: Dark Shikari
These complexes make more than any tech 2 BPO, but unlike a BPO, cannot be acquired by any player regardless of wealth unless he joins the alliance controlling it.
They can be acquired by people forming up and taking them by force rather than sitting on their backsides and whining about it...
The trouble with this community is that those big alliances with the resources worked hard to get there in the first place, and those that whine about it can't be bothered to do anything about it. They'd rather whine at CCP and hope they get it for free and no work rather than do something worthwhile and have a sense of achievement at the end.
Since when was EVE fair? It isn't, would have thought you of all people would be used to this by now.
I for one wouldn't have it any other way.
[EDIT] Here's a catchy tune: 'If you want the good PvE, you have to do the PvP'
Whats free and easy about doing exploration in hostile 0.0 to find a plex, that anyone else can find and also come into to fight you for the rewards.
http://sprayandpray.xippy.co.uk |
Michayel Lyon
The Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:54:00 -
[30]
On one side, a complex is a great resource (if you control it).
On the other side, it is way too easy to farm, due to its static location and respawn times. Also, it makes no sense for "The _ber-secret Serpentis Shipyard" to be rebuilt every 12 hours or so, on the same location, over and over... Especially when it's marked with a beacon that shows up both on the overview and on the star map...
Ergo, move all complexes from 4/10 and up to the new exploration complex system. Spawn the 8/10 complexes anywhere in a particular region, and the lower ones in a particular constellation.
---
Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied?
Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions |
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