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Waxau
Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.08 22:04:00 -
[31]
Well im a dedicated passive tanker in all honesty, and ive yet to use shield rechargers. SPR II, t2 resists, and LSE II do all i need. And thats all that needs to be known.
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Marquis Dean
The Last Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2007.04.08 22:22:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 08/04/2007 22:14:56 ôRattler is the only BS that can passive tank worth a damn. He speaks truth.ö A lot of battleships make great hitpoint base passive tanks. You donÆt always need HP regen if you have enough hitpoints it depends on what your doing. When it comes down to it there is no best setup or best tank it all depends on what your doing at the time in question.
ôIf I was brave enough to take a 1.5 bil isk ship into PvP, that would be a horrifying tank to face.ö Or you could spend over 1 billion fitting a command ship and get a crazy 3000+ dps tankable ship depending on what damage type hits you.
1 - I can't fly command ships (yet), only 14mil SP. And I only use the Rattler for PvE.
2 - I don't necessarily agree that the Rattle is the only BS passive tanker, although it's prodigious shield hp and 6 lowslots does lend it to that. I'm sure any of the BS can be bent into having a decent passive tank (at the end of the day you can make up for dodgy stats with mods, and BS have alot of slots).
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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.04.08 22:30:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Waxau Well im a dedicated passive tanker in all honesty, and ive yet to use shield rechargers. SPR II, t2 resists, and LSE II do all i need. And thats all that needs to be known.
The fact that you havn't used Rechargers simply means you arn't taking advantage of a mod that may occasionally be better. It does not mean they are not worth using. Just as someone who never uses shield amps and only uses shield hardeners may be missing out as well, there are some active tanking setups where passive > active and there are situations in which a passive tanker would rather use amps as well.
Restricting yourself because you "feel" like an item isn't as useful is something you should keep to yourself. If you're trying to help others learn the best ways to do things you should explain when those items actually are useful.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Waxau
Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.08 22:32:00 -
[34]
No. I meant i havent used it in a setup, because they suck. I can get roughly 25% extra hp on a BC with a shield extender. Compared to a shield recharger, which does 20%. Which ontop of that, is nerfed by stacking penalties.
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Santa Anna
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Posted - 2007.04.08 22:54:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Marquis Dean
2 - I don't necessarily agree that the Rattle is the only BS passive tanker, although it's prodigious shield hp and 6 lowslots does lend it to that. I'm sure any of the BS can be bent into having a decent passive tank (at the end of the day you can make up for dodgy stats with mods, and BS have alot of slots).
You can get insane peak recharge by passive tanking a 'geddon. You can't do much with it, but quickfit gave me like 320 HP/S without implants. |
Waxau
Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.08 22:56:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Waxau on 08/04/2007 22:52:44 General tip - Dont trust Quickfit. Very buggy, and innacurate. I was expecting a much greater tank than i have, when i first got my vulture :P
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.04.08 23:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Waxau No. I meant i havent used it in a setup, because they suck. I can get roughly 25% extra hp on a BC with a shield extender. Compared to a shield recharger, which does 20%. Which ontop of that, is nerfed by stacking penalties.
Yes, on your particular BC a recharger may be useless. But every single extender provides less benefit than the one before. I already said your personal lack of use of rechargers is your own business, it doesn't mean it's smart for everyone. There are many ships and fitting situations in which a recharger is better than an extender. It seems you're trying to disagree with me... which is a disservice to new players who shouldn't discount the module simply because you do not like them.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Agalantiri
Caldari Deadworlds Infrastructure Inc. Ice Storm Allliance
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Posted - 2007.04.10 11:14:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Waxau No. I meant i havent used it in a setup, because they suck. I can get roughly 25% extra hp on a BC with a shield extender. Compared to a shield recharger, which does 20%. Which ontop of that, is nerfed by stacking penalties.
Yes, on your particular BC a recharger may be useless. But every single extender provides less benefit than the one before. I already said your personal lack of use of rechargers is your own business, it doesn't mean it's smart for everyone. There are many ships and fitting situations in which a recharger is better than an extender. It seems you're trying to disagree with me... which is a disservice to new players who shouldn't discount the module simply because you do not like them.
I have to agree with Shadarle on this. And can even give an example. Due to power grid requirements upon a Nighthawk, when fitting 6 HML II's (And really, who doesn't?) You can fit at most 2 LSE II's. I've run the numbers back and forward, and unless you're throwing PDS left and right, you can only fit 2 LSE. And, in addition, your tank is better when you replace the third LSE with a Shield Recharger, and fit the 5 lows with SPR II's.
Like 100 hp/sec better. Of course with the advent of Invul Field 2's, You replace the second passive amp over to that, and assuming even moderate cap recharge skills, you can run that single mod indefinately.
And for the record, the Nighthawk setups on the 'Tanking Setups Compared' are blown away by replacing it with a Recharger. I've tested them all.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.10 11:18:00 -
[39]
Doesnt alter the fact that they suck.
Given the chance would you not prefer an extra LSE II? And its off topic, but i have 3 LSE on my nighthawk :S
And ontop of that, i never said they're not worth fitting 100% of the time. So dont take words out of my mouth.
Nine times out of 10, in a passive tank, you dont use Shield Rechargers, as hp AND recharge time are what make passive tanks. Not just recharge time.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.10 11:21:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Waxau No. I meant i havent used it in a setup, because they suck. I can get roughly 25% extra hp on a BC with a shield extender. Compared to a shield recharger, which does 20%. Which ontop of that, is nerfed by stacking penalties.
Yes, on your particular BC a recharger may be useless. But every single extender provides less benefit than the one before. I already said your personal lack of use of rechargers is your own business, it doesn't mean it's smart for everyone. There are many ships and fitting situations in which a recharger is better than an extender. It seems you're trying to disagree with me... which is a disservice to new players who shouldn't discount the module simply because you do not like them.
Hows it a disservice? We're debating which is more useful, which allows others to see the good and bad sides of the module. Its hardly a disservice. And secondly, yes it is my preference. Im not imposing it on anyone else. I stated my opinion and im backing it up. Ive yet to see you do such.
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Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.04.10 11:47:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Pottsey on 10/04/2007 11:45:53 ôDoesnt alter the fact that they suck.ö They donÆt suck and Shadarle is right a shield recharger can give more HP regen then a shield extender. You shouldnÆt tell someone to ignore and never use shield rechargers. It all depends which ship and what other modules they have fitted. You also said they have a stacking penalty but they donÆt.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Waxau
Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.10 11:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Pottsey ôDoesnt alter the fact that they suck.ö They donÆt suck and Shadarle is right a shield recharger can give more HP regen then a shield extender. You shouldnÆt tell someone to ignore and never use shield rechargers. It all depends which ship and what other modules they have fitted.
..........Im not denying theyre useful SOMETIMES. I believe they suck, because 9 times out of 10, i dont use them, and theres many other modules which would do a better job, or be of more use. And i know it all depends on which ship - Such on a BS, extenders would suck usually.
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