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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2996
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Posted - 2016.12.22 01:01:41 -
[31] - Quote
On this episode of, "What's Reaver completely wrong about today..."
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:An ORCA is the same size and cost as a full size freighter
The mineral cost of an Orca is a little more than half of a freighter.
It's not even close without T2 rigs.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.22 01:49:16 -
[32] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:On this episode of, "What's Reaver completely wrong about today..."
The mineral cost of an Orca is a little more than half of a freighter.
It's not even close without T2 rigs. They are approximately the same relative to DSTs and large T1 industrials. The Orca fails miserably as a light freighter. This has been explained in-depth too many times to count, yet you people persist in saying that the Orca works as a mini-freighter.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise Sherwood Hisec Industrial Technologies
307
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Posted - 2016.12.22 02:43:49 -
[33] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:On this episode of, "What's Reaver completely wrong about today..."
The mineral cost of an Orca is a little more than half of a freighter.
It's not even close without T2 rigs. They are approximately the same relative to DSTs and large T1 industrials. The Orca fails miserably as a light freighter. This has been explained in-depth too many times to count, yet you people persist in saying that the Orca works as a mini-freighter.
If I understand you right, you are going off a per m3/ISK value. Max yield ore hold Orca 187k ore bay (I haven't sit in my orca for a few weeks, my number might be off) 40k fleet 100k cargo
327k m3 if all you moved was ore. At the average price for an Orca is 750 million (will be higher due to rig cost for cargo) I think if math done right, you are looking at 2.1k ISK per m3.
My max yield on my obelisk is like 1.2 million (not perfect skills) and I paid like 1.2-1.5 billion so I runs about 1250 ISK per M3.
With the changes that Alpha clones bring, it might just be a good time to have another industrial ship pass through.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.22 07:15:31 -
[34] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:If I understand you right, you are going off a per m3/ISK value. I'm mostly just talking about its cargo size (not counting ore bay) being not much larger than a DST while it aligns close to the speed of a freighter. A light freighter would reasonably align a bit faster than an Orca while hauling significantly more stuff.
HAULING CAPACITY DST: . . . . .####### Orca: . . . . ############ Freighter: ################################################################################
ALIGN TIME DST: . . . . .########################## Orca: . . . . ####################################################### Freighter: ################################################################################## (also consider: low powergrid and high mass of the Orca means it cannot easily fit a prop mod to align faster the way a DST can)
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2834
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Posted - 2016.12.22 07:22:04 -
[35] - Quote
Orcas align in 10 seconds flat or you're doing it wrong. And if you have a line on Orca-priced freighters I'll take five. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.22 08:14:21 -
[36] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Orcas align in 10 seconds with a MWD that uses up 80% of their powergrid.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2998
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Posted - 2016.12.22 15:49:53 -
[37] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Orcas align in 10 seconds with a MWD that uses up 80% of their powergrid.
Which might matter if it actually needed that grid for anything else when fit for hauling, but it doesn't.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.22 16:43:39 -
[38] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Which might matter if it actually needed that grid for anything else when fit for hauling, but it doesn't.
Regardless:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:HAULING CAPACITY DST: . . . . .####### Orca: . . . . ############ Freighter: . ################################################################################
There's no way an Orca can act as a light freighter with that amount of cargo.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2998
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:14:06 -
[39] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Which might matter if it actually needed that grid for anything else when fit for hauling, but it doesn't.
Regardless: Reaver Glitterstim wrote:HAULING CAPACITY DST: . . . . .####### Orca: . . . . ############ Freighter: . ################################################################################ There's no way an Orca can act as a light freighter with that amount of cargo.
That's funny, because I actually use an Orca for expressly that purpose and find it to be exceedingly adequate. 140K general storage, combined with the ore hold and 10s align, is actually pretty amazing for T2 production mats.
Battleship mass makes it handy for low-class WHs, as well.
There's no need, and no overarching benefit, in being able to dial-a-cargohold to whatever size you need. If you need mass cargo, fly a freighter. If you don't, select whichever other option is most appropriate.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.23 02:30:56 -
[40] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:That's funny, because I actually use an Orca for expressly that purpose and find it to be exceedingly adequate. 140K general storage, combined with the ore hold and 10s align, is actually pretty amazing for T2 production mats. Have you used a DST before? It hauls half the stuff but with 7.5s align time, 65% faster warp, half the EHP but under 7% of the sig radius, under a tenth of the mass, fits a MJD, reps itself rapidly, same capacitor (effectively much stronger because of the sig radius and smaller modules). So it's far safer and, considering its faster align and warp, not a whole lot weaker in terms of direct haul throughput. If you have to make multiple trips through a wormhole, the DST is far less likely to collapse it, and also quite a bit less likely to get caught in a camp. And finally, though price of the ship may fall short of the value of cargo, nevertheless the DST is a fourth of the cost of an Orca, ~200 mil vs ~800 mil.
I'm not saying that you're making the wrong choice to use an Orca instead of a DST, but I am saying that for the increased effort and risk, it's not a fair increase in hauling capacity. I'll go back to what you said at the end of your post:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:There's no need, and no overarching benefit, in being able to dial-a-cargohold to whatever size you need. If you need mass cargo, fly a freighter. If you don't, select whichever other option is most appropriate. There exists a titanic chasm in cargohold sizes between subcap industrials and freighters. There is absolutely a reason to add light freighters to the game. You yourself could use one, as you are sadly limited to flying that poor Orca on a job it wasn't built for and which it doesn't do very well.
Saying the Orca is enough would be like if there were no battlecruisers in the game, and you said it's fine because the Porpoise can pretend to be a battlecruiser.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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