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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:11:00 -
[1]
Situation: About 20 KIA bs jumping into about 20 Coalition ships camping the gate. Lag was simply unbearable (i,m sure the Coalition guys will back us up on this).
I literally had 3 screen shots for 3 minutes if teh fight.
Wtf is going on with the servers, why is it like this? Totally unplayable now for 20 v 20???
Loses I understand are being petitioned from both sides, but its not the losses we care about, we wanted that fight, we'd been waiting all night for it, is it just Khanid? or is the phenomona (and I am not exaergarting at all, and it isnt me or my machine etc, the entire gang complianed about the same thing) present throughout Eve?
I swear things used to be so much better, HOW can it just simply continue to get worse?
KIA EVE Home
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Dregann
Amarr Trading Company
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dregann on 11/04/2007 21:14:17 I remember about a year ago i would love going into 30V30 Fleet fights... No lag at all The Good Old days...
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LeMoose
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:17:00 -
[3]
i really dispise the fact that ccp are putting more manpower into developing the game rather than making it playable... ofc we need new stuff but walking around in stations wtf
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Havras
The Syndicate Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:18:00 -
[4]
The condition of the servers these days is pretty much why I'm inactive for the most part. It is simply no fun playing under the lag conditions as they stand. In fact I'm about to set 2 month skills training and cancel for a while.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:20:00 -
[5]
Copy pasting what I wrote in a gen.forums thread: As soon as we jumped from jachanu to them, most of our clients froze for almost a minute. I got my first frame right before the 1min passed cause I uncloaked right after that, only to lock-up again for a good minute and a half.... then it seemd to smooth out...
This is not "lag" as we're used to. Not delay to activate modules etc....
And some ppl need to stop offering advice about ppl's PC's... you don't seem to "get it".
The client freezes completely (didn't even register my fraps shortcut key) and it's not a slideshow.... it's a hickup!
Point is... we had only 50 or so pilots involved.... surely 4 years after the game's launch we can have that kinda of "epic" fights? Right?
Very dissappointed with you guys at CCP.
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Kalissa
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:20:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kalissa on 11/04/2007 21:17:58 I'm absolutely with you on this Eddz, the lag is absolutely atrocious. We're even having trouble with lag in fights with no more than 30 in system. Ships wont align, modules wont activate ruining the enjoyment for all concerned. C'mon CCP get your act together here. You can't blame this on more people being online, it's not even just happening at peak times either. (btw this is in Venal so it's obviously not just localized)
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Glassback
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:26:00 -
[7]
Problem is that the lagg is specific to the node. So you can have low numbers in your system but be caused problems by high numbers in other systems.
Doesnt make it any more bearable though.
G.
I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about.
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TheMantisCH
Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:29:00 -
[8]
Totally agree eddz, that fight was a nightmare, after about 3mins of a frozen screen it seemed to clear up and i was uncloaked and had 3 targets locked. so the server still seems to register commands, hell, we even lost a maelstrom to concord after he got disconnected.
- Mant
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Evil Thug
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: TheMantisCH
we even lost a maelstrom to concord after he got disconnected.
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JFxSummoner
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:34:00 -
[10]
agreed 100% here, maybe stop worrying about goign forward with all your wonderfull kali/revalations stuff's and get this lag sorted.............
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Frools
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Evil Thug
Originally by: TheMantisCH
we even lost a maelstrom to concord after he got disconnected.
quoted cos thug said so
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GO MaZ
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Evil Thug
Originally by: TheMantisCH
we even lost a maelstrom to concord after he got disconnected.
QFT (Quoted for Thug)
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Haffrage
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:36:00 -
[13]
TBH this wouldn't be the fault of the server, it's the client. Some people say it happens, some don't, both claim to know about computers. I'd say it's a drivers issue with the last patch. I know I suddenly can't gang warp with 20 people since the last patch, but I can do it fine alone. -----
Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers |
matty01
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Evil Thug
Originally by: TheMantisCH
we even lost a maelstrom to concord after he got disconnected.
quoted for thug __________________________
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: LeMoose i really dispise the fact that ccp are putting more manpower into developing the game rather than making it playable... ofc we need new stuff but walking around in stations wtf
This is only reason i play eve tbh, walkng in station ftw ! Who need to optimizie eve... In before: - the lock - the snip --- Alexandra Frigaro > These RISE guys have a better spawn rate than angels... |
Mobius
Amarr Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:38:00 -
[16]
well it's the north and u know it's never gotten the attention it deserved for fleet engagements. Although it does seem to have grown even worse lately.
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Beyond Horizon
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dregann Edited by: Dregann on 11/04/2007 21:14:17 I remember about a year ago i would love going into 30V30 Fleet fights... No lag at all The Good Old days...
signed
I'll backup KiaEddz on this... the lag in this game is getting more and more retarded... -
siggy won't work :( |
Dave Tehsulei
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:40:00 -
[18]
Alt post removed - post with your main! If this is your main, see the rules for details on how to stop your posts getting removed - Serathu ([email protected])
I need a sig :(
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Vando
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Evil Thug
Originally by: TheMantisCH
we even lost a maelstrom to concord after he got disconnected.
Quoted For Thug
--
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Imode
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:42:00 -
[20]
There's all sorts of different kinds of lag in this game.
"Type a line of text, hit enter and end up with a wall of line breaks" lag
"Start out okay, and end up at 1 frame every 15 seconds" lag
"Completely playable except I've been trying to target this guy for 5 minutes" lag
Hooray for diversity!
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Jenessa
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:43:00 -
[21]
It's not just in PvP this is happening. Me and a corpmate today were doing a 8/10 in Venal. When we got to the 2nd stage and my corpmate in his Nighthawk began tanking the spawn both our clients locked up for a good 30-40 seconds before everything settled down.
30-40 seconds lag in a system with just the 2 of us in it? And it's not just this system it's all over, the server performance is just not acceptable. It's to the stage now where if CCP were to advertise about how wonderful fleet battles are in Eve then you could actually see them getting screwed for false advertising.
The game is actually getting worse not better as far as performance goes. Fleet battles are unworkable and not it's got to the point were a 10 on 10 fight is a struggle.
Pull your finger out CCP, at least tell us what you are doing to fix this and that you recognise there is a problem.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Haffrage TBH this wouldn't be the fault of the server, it's the client. Some people say it happens, some don't, both claim to know about computers. I'd say it's a drivers issue with the last patch. I know I suddenly can't gang warp with 20 people since the last patch, but I can do it fine alone.
Anyone with half a clue about computers knows it's not a driver issue.
"Something" on "some" occasions makes the client freeze while it's ... dunno wtf it's doing.
On some occasions I'm convinced the gamedata xfer is queued in someway and the X of the pilots insystem are getting things normally while the rest are very slowly trying to catch up with the current state.... only not doing it and having the client continuously "on pause".
I witnessed this firsthand by having horrendous lag on my main about 1 month ago in another fight, while my alt (on the laptop, same net connection) had perfectly fluid action.
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lles
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:51:00 -
[23]
Too bad for words, even Concord got lagged out and started shooting ppl.
THe only one I could shoot and target was KIAEddz for a while in my enyo...THe only thing I heard was my guns running out of ammo....
Would have been a really and interesting fight, as we were outnumbered but still planning to kick ya ass
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nickky01
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Evil Thug
Originally by: TheMantisCH
we even lost a maelstrom to concord after he got disconnected.
QFT (what the said, but i just woke up so i missed it)
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Horza Otho
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:54:00 -
[25]
Tell me about it, last 4 times i have died have been lag/frozen screen retardation.
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Scylla V
VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:55:00 -
[26]
I saw what you were talking about KIAEddz. It was completely unacceptable. It's not even your usual kind of lag. It's a slideshow with a very very long 'next' picture setting. Like 1 picture every minute or so.
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:56:00 -
[27]
The lag does seem strangely horrific, you are right.
The other day a jump-in of 20 ships into a system caused my screen to lock, icons to dissapear, and all I saw was the starry backdrop and the sound of my ship dying.
I petitioned of course, but as you say its not the loss itself, its the sheer fact that PvP is supposed to be a fun experience.
---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
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Kilostream
Caldari Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:56:00 -
[28]
Yup, Lag ruined that fight - I died without firing a shot.
I was looking forward to a decent scrap, as I'm sure you were - thanks for turning up, shame the server couldn't handle it.
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BlackPrince
Amarr Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:02:00 -
[29]
Edited by: BlackPrince on 11/04/2007 21:59:33 PvP has been much been reduced to who's lag is the least unbearable. Kind of pointless if you ask me.
Walking around in station isn't going to make anything more enjoyable for me, or for those of us who play for PvP. Maybe CCP should look at fixing current problems before adding more variables to the equation.
I have an idea; why don't we ritualize fleet combat? Fleet's form up on opposite ends of a Region and send in individual champions to fight it out. They're only allowed to send another champion after one has been destroyed. Continue until one fleet runs out of ships. It would make the lag bearable then! -=BlackPrince=- "Fair fights are for suckers." |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kilostream Yup, Lag ruined that fight - I died without firing a shot.
I was looking forward to a decent scrap, as I'm sure you were - thanks for turning up, shame the server couldn't handle it.
Indeed.... and if you noticed, when we jump from kihtaled to jachanu there was no lag at all.... they're on different nodes maybe?
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Hyllekjeks
Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:06:00 -
[31]
lag is worse now then ever before. They stated that with the removal of bookmarks things would be so much smoother. Guess they were referning to another game then. Lag is worse then ever and is 1 of many things that makes this game crap atm. But for gods sake, lets get more newbies into this game. Lets make new stuff. Go ccp
I mean there is a fun in beeing hated, it puts a fire in your ass and it gets ******* boring to be loved by everyone |
cptblood
Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:06:00 -
[32]
Originally by: KIAEddZ Situation: About 20 KIA bs jumping into about 20 Coalition ships camping the gate. Lag was simply unbearable (i,m sure the Coalition guys will back us up on this).
I literally had 3 screen shots for 3 minutes if teh fight.
Wtf is going on with the servers, why is it like this? Totally unplayable now for 20 v 20???
Loses I understand are being petitioned from both sides, but its not the losses we care about, we wanted that fight, we'd been waiting all night for it, is it just Khanid? or is the phenomona (and I am not exaergarting at all, and it isnt me or my machine etc, the entire gang complianed about the same thing) present throughout Eve?
I swear things used to be so much better, HOW can it just simply continue to get worse?
Its getting worse all the time.
Had a 6 vs around 12 server could not handle it lost a sleipnir petition got refused( fight was in venal btw), alot of people think its due to the new gang system.Personally i think its due to to much content being added all the time,and not enough effort being put into making the game more playable.
I personally have been playing this game for 3 years and yet again i watch ccp do nothing as things start to mess up, If its all about money ccp you soon wont be getting anymore of mine.Unless i see a vast improvment very soon.
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Schneiderr
Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:14:00 -
[33]
/signed
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Dahin
Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:14:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Dahin on 11/04/2007 22:11:29 The lag we had tonight was client-side.
Even the right-click menu's wouldn't load. After it took me 2+ mins to load something after jumping I could fly around and see normal fps.
EDIT: and I jumped in last, it was prolly the fact that I had a better puter than the rest that got me to load first. I also noticed that every time someone warped or jumped into the gate there would be a "lagspike" of about 10-15 secs.
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Zigadenus
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:19:00 -
[35]
Rabble rabble!
Indeed, anything but small-scale pvp has gone down the toilet in this game. I've given up on it completely. My comments on game review sites reflect my opinions as well as my de-activated accounts. Every unreimbursed lag loss = 3 accounts deactivated for a month. That's about a $45 penalty on CCP everytime it happens, which is about everytime I get into an engagement with > 7 vs 7. Meh, mountain biking in Moab 4tw, Eve 4tl tbfh. If it keeps up much longer I'm gonna completely cash out of this pile of cr*p.
________________________________________________ Kyle > Why do you have to ask me all these complicated questions? Zerodragon > Dude, IÆm trying to save your setup from complete suckage. |
Aramark
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:19:00 -
[36]
last 3 times i was in a little fleet fight (under 100) lag was sooo bad. you can even ask deathgrip i was asking him in local if i was dead yet. cus my ship was just sitting there not moving. thank goodness he was a nice enough guy to tell me "you died a long time ago" somethign along those lines. also today i have got about 50 jump Qs jumping into a system that noone was in.
just awesome.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Aasia: |
Tearavygh Quillam
Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:21:00 -
[37]
I'm starting to get tired of this. I'm currently running 2 accounts, but one will go away as soon as the current subscription ends.
This is too much of a mockery. You want to enforce a system player cap, fine, make it 50-60 players, but at least make it good.
This game loses in popularity due to terrible technical problems.
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:34:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Evil Thug
Originally by: TheMantisCH
we even lost a maelstrom to concord after he got disconnected.
All laughing aside and I do take these comments in good humour, I am really p'd off that I lost that ship. I have a good track record of kills to losses and am somewhat proud of my record.
No matter why i died the lag was horrendous, I mean really really really unplayable and I've been here 3.5 years and have been in some big lagfests.
It's getting to to point where to play the game you have to disable every feature it has and still it cant cope. It's just not really fun anymore. Thats the saddest part here. I am actually not enjoying the fights anymore half the time because i sit there on what is primarily a very high spec machine with a decent conn speed watching my pc freeze up whilst my mem is at 30% usage and my cpu barely passing 50% usage.
Click here to visit our site
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Kayleigh Lothian
Minmatar KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: Kilostream Yup, Lag ruined that fight - I died without firing a shot.
I was looking forward to a decent scrap, as I'm sure you were - thanks for turning up, shame the server couldn't handle it.
Indeed.... and if you noticed, when we jump from kihtaled to jachanu there was no lag at all.... they're on different nodes maybe?
I found this strange as well. When you sat on the Kihtaled gate in Jachanu and we jumped in I had no freeze, no lag. Since you jumped into Kihtalded I guess you had no lag/freezes then either, but when we came into Kihtaled again... The second frame I got was my uncloaked phoon, the third had stuff on the overview. I clicked on my modules and clicked on the primary on the overview and hoped I did not click on something in space behind the overview. Next frame I see my tank is running and I am running low on cap, noone has targeted me and I have not targeted anyone (no NOS so the tank had drained 70-ish% of my cap).
Should we have to get one from each side on a common TS/vent and jump around until we find a system which works for us all? Or do we have to play POS-wars to be able to signal in advance that a POS is comming out of reinforced at a surten time so we can get a 'Jita-node'?
That fight should/would have been awesome and something we could have teased those not online about Maximum filesize allowed for a signature is 24,000 bytes. Email us if you have questions -Eldo ([email protected]) |
SentryRaven
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:38:00 -
[40]
This cannot be client side.... I had one target which I started locking and the time was going down and suddenly reset to start point again. I wasn't able to fire a SINGLE shot nor get a lock on anything else than a corpse (it popped)....
With best regards, SentryRaven KIA Noobship Pilot
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Aramark
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:39:00 -
[41]
i would say get out of empire, but 0.0 is lag as hell too
-------------------------------------------------------------- Aasia: |
BlackPrince
Amarr Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:40:00 -
[42]
The Bossman sums it up perfectly.
It just ain't fun anymore. I've been around, under one guise or another, since the very beginning. I've seem some god almighty clusterfornications go about, but this takes the cake on the absolute misery it causes. -=BlackPrince=- "Fair fights are for suckers."
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Daedal Virtu
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:49:00 -
[43]
Personally I think the lag is largely caused by the client side, some of the time its definitely server side too, but its much less common than client side lag.
Its ridiculous that if I disable the interface I go up by 30-40 FPS. CCP needs to redesign their interface so it doesn't slow down the game so much. FLA Patsy http://fla.killerspace.com/forum/ <No tree's were harmed during this transmission. However, a great number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced> |
Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.04.11 23:01:00 -
[44]
Agreed wholeheartedly with the OP. This is should be CCP's absolute single highest priority at the moment.
Normal day to day operations in Empire are laggy as h*ll. Mid-sized gang combat can be utterly atrocious. This has gotten substantially worse over the last year.
There is nothing I'd rather see CCP work on above getting ordinary game play with an ordinary amount of usage (and yes, that means including systems that people actually want to travel in) consistantly functional.
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Bombcrater
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.11 23:04:00 -
[45]
The kind of lag we got during that fight in Kihtaled is even worse than the usual kind where the client is just waiting on a lagged server to catch up.
This problem isn't just lag, it's a bug. The whole client code simply freezes up -- no screen updates, mouse clicks ignored, window minimise/maximise calls ignored, the main window doesn't re-paint after its damaged.
It doesn't really matter if the node is lagging too, because when this happens the client is so locked up you can't do anything anyway. Something is causing it to go comatose for anything up to a minute at a time and that's just plain unacceptable.
CCP has to fix this garbage. It's turning combat into a frustrating game of chance. I survived this 'battle' with KIA, but I'd rather have gone down in a fun fight than make it out because everyone is staring at a frozen screen |
Toppar Wear
STK Scientific Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.04.11 23:08:00 -
[46]
I can only but a agree with the OP.. and it saddens me like h*ll..
I have been playing for a long time and the lag has just gotten badder with each patch.. Its getting to a point where CCP needs to come up with a VERY detailed plan of what they are planning to do..
CCP needs to think about their priorities, who gives a fricking f*ck about new stuff if u can only look at it in the station!!!
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Lowa
Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.04.11 23:14:00 -
[47]
Shame to hear that a possibly great fight got flushed down the crapper.
But the real mind killer here is why we keep running into these things and then suddenly we can do a fight with 200+ people, 600 fighters and its "ok" to play in?
This debate has been talked over and over and there was a very good Blog about it too that I cant find at the moment but it talked about these sort of things. The problem here is that CCP really cant go out with too much information, its simply confidential so that no other company can steal the ideas. Basic stuff really.
Its frustrating for us though and it needs to find a solution or at least we should get a good explanation, that can be done without dishing out the goods about EVE software design.
Cheers, Lowa
What if the truth was something else? |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.04.11 23:16:00 -
[48]
Yes, it can suck pretty bad. However, we've been fighting with 200-300 people in local, 200+ on grid for a couple weeks now out in Pure Blind and Fade and while the lag is pretty bad, most of the time it's actually been playable. This is also with 100-150 fighters from both sides zooming around the grid as well.
*shrugs*
After over three years, I still can't make heads or tails of how the lag affects people. TBH, I've had more lag in fights like what Eddz describes than in epic 200 ship slug fests. Bah... -
Vid - 'P-2 Defense' |
Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar Momentum. Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.11 23:16:00 -
[49]
Totally agree with OP, lag is getting worse. Even 20v20 battles are now messed up.
I believe the usual response to a thread like this, when your enemy complains of lag, is to say something like "u suxor omg, we are 7e3t, we wtfpwnd d'U"
but when all sides are reporting the same thing, there might just be a grain of truth in it.
Few months back, much larger battles were enjoyable, now its a case of defending against lag first, then fighting.
but of course, we all want to walk in stations...so forget this lag nonsense If we are docked walking about, we wont even see it...thats the plan
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Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar Momentum. Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.11 23:25:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Seleene while the lag is pretty bad, most of the time it's actually been playable.
well maybe thats coz you dont have your own 400 fighter drones on overview
and I was shocked to have you lock my crappy little typhoon, and stick a gazillion fighters on it in C4C, ( did you smell my NOS )
I lost about 12k armour to you, warped out and was popped by Emily at a POS. No offence, but she is a way sexier, and I died with a smile on my face
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Flapp
Dog Tags
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Posted - 2007.04.11 23:36:00 -
[51]
Account cancelled!
Your account is set NOT to automatically renew at the end of the current cycle.
Click here to keep playing
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.04.11 23:41:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Originally by: Seleene while the lag is pretty bad, most of the time it's actually been playable.
I was shocked to have you lock my crappy little typhoon, and stick a gazillion fighters on it in C4C, ( did you smell my NOS )
I lost about 12k armour to you,
Damn you all! Stop fitting plates so you pop more quickly!! -
Vid - 'P-2 Defense' |
Jake Stevens
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Posted - 2007.04.11 23:44:00 -
[53]
Its not even your normal, click module, watch it activate 20secs later lag. Its, holy **** my fps is 0 lag. Seriously CCP, fix whatever is causing this soon or else you're gonna see alot of accounts being cancelled ------------- yarr :( |
Paltar
Eternal Rising EternalRising
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Posted - 2007.04.12 00:02:00 -
[54]
One of the things that has always made EvE THE game for me is the fact its not really a "twitch" pvp game... its more cerebral.. about tactics and setups.
But when your reduced to less lag wins it applys the old Twitch/FPS "lower ping ftw" type mentality of computer not good enough can't play/compete..
except in this case it appears none of us in this thread are good enough and i've seen some decent pvp'rs complaining in here. - which should ring as odd.
But generally all round lag is unpleasant - its always going to be an issue in an mmo.. but it does seem to be worse than ever in eve compared to in the past.
www.eternalrising.net |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.04.12 00:27:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/04/2007 00:26:46 Sounds like the same problem KIA and us had back in 3-F a week ago.
Utterly pathetic. The lag gets worse every patch, even with the so-called "need for speed" and so forth
What is really strange is some people are having 100-200 man fights that are just great but the 30-50 man fights are lagging worse than F-TE.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio (back up, new address!) |
Sivona
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.04.12 00:35:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Originally by: Seleene while the lag is pretty bad, most of the time it's actually been playable.
well maybe thats coz you dont have your own 400 fighter drones on overview
and I was shocked to have you lock my crappy little typhoon, and stick a gazillion fighters on it in C4C, ( did you smell my NOS )
I lost about 12k armour to you, warped out and was popped by Emily at a POS. No offence, but she is a way sexier, and I died with a smile on my face
The cunning 'no self-respecting FC will call a typhoon' fleet survival choice :D
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Louis DelaBlanche
Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.04.12 00:55:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
but of course, we all want to walk in stations...so forget this lag nonsense If we are docked walking about, we wont even see it...thats the plan
Exactly. If they introduce walking in stations, then well be too busy all "socialising" in the stations bars to be out shooting eachother. will almost be like 2ndlife in space. Then again. Imagine what the station lag will be like in jita 4-4. Will be alot of avatars walking into walls with that lag
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Aceformat
Valiant Logistics Inc. Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 00:58:00 -
[58]
I have to agree, even 10 v 10 is lag infested these days
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True Ace
Gallente Knights of the Rose
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Posted - 2007.04.12 01:00:00 -
[59]
I left guild wars because i heard this game had better pvp, but when i hear vets complain it makes you think. I think you guys have several options.
Vote with your money. Take all of your fights to empire so the entire community gets fed up that way they have no choice but to fix it. IM YOUR KING'S KING. |
Akov Stohs
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 01:11:00 -
[60]
Its how they promote smaller blog fests...by making them unplayable >:D
although, I have noticed tons of cosmetic changes being added in with the patches...ie dreadnaught guns sliding out when in seige mode. Can't help but wonder if some of that is having an effect, but it gets turned off when x number of people are in system? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
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Biosman
ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.12 01:25:00 -
[61]
Yes its getting worse,earlier a few of us,4-5 pilots were camping a gate and a Rifter jumped in...THE LAG WAS HORRIFFIC!!!! I heard the ship exploding way before the wreck appeared,in fact it was on fire at the time all weird like
Joking aside,OP is absolutely on the ball here,and this isn't the only thread about this.Something is wrong and Eve is broken and Infinity is looking good.
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Cartiff
Darwin With Attitude RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 01:34:00 -
[62]
we had an incident in Querious last week, our gang was sat on the ED_ gat ein 3-F, an enemy mega just warps to the gate at 0 and jumps through, so we all hit jump, nothing, the entire gangs screens froze. After 4mins i tried to close eve, but couldn't. Eve refused to close even via the task manager in windows, most of the gang had to restart their computers.
Totally unbelievable, damned mega got away :( Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why -Sahwoolo
"Uggs386 > omfg i like little boys" |
Raketefrau
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 01:46:00 -
[63]
It seems that the devs really want people to get into cap warfare, but man, fighters are SO lagtastic it hurts. We were in a great battle the other night until 8 carriers popped in and launched fighters....
It was horrendous. It really, really, TRULY sucks when a game is SO tactical, and battles are determined more by server capability than player capabilities.
Makes one lose faith.
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Plaetean
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.12 01:47:00 -
[64]
/signed op.
Lagging out on a 10 vs 10 is not on.
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True Ace
Gallente Knights of the Rose
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Posted - 2007.04.12 01:49:00 -
[65]
Another question guys. Are these lag spikes so to speak only in 0.0? IM YOUR KING'S KING. |
Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.04.12 03:23:00 -
[66]
My biggest problem, a problem I've never had before, is when moving with fleets my client cannot handle all the ships decloaking, my client comes to a dead stop for up to a minute. I've managed to find ways to minimize the problem(IE zooming all the way in, turning EVERYTHING off, even the depth buffers), but my client can still just lock up, no combat, just people uncloaking at a gate. This is new, seems client side, something has been screwed up.
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Sentar Manar
Amarr NailorTech Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.12 03:26:00 -
[67]
You should try missions in Rens ugggg....
But as I like to come up with solutions here is what I think will take the Lag down a few notches.
#1: Remove Jove space from the servers. It exists as proven by Scanners however there is nothing there. Several hundred solar systems eating up space and adding to lag doing nothing. Remove ethem from the server untill they are ready for the players to use.
#2: ***** down on Macro miners. Just clean it up, less fake people less lag.
#3: Remove Jet cans in asteroid belts, if you live in empire many belts as you know become infested with empty anchored jet cans. Clean these about once a week (don't know if they do that or not).
#4: Remove unused stations. Stations that are used by no one to a few people can be removed in a multiple station system and the Agents moved elsewhere. I can think of lots of stations that can go.
#5: Last ad more Severs to share the load. We like extra content but lagged up its useless just add some more severs (yes I know its expensive) particularly before updates that have huge amounts of extra content that the server needs to deal with (e.g Wrecks.) :End Transmition: |
Phrixus Zephyr
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.12 03:44:00 -
[68]
We had a similar situation with D2 a couple of nights ago. 20 pilots reporting ridiculous lag.
CCP told us in a round about way to get bent and that the logs 'Showed nothing'. This was in Fade or Dek I think.
Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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Aramark
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.12 04:02:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Aramark on 12/04/2007 03:59:39
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr We had a similar situation with D2 a couple of nights ago. 20 pilots reporting ridiculous lag.
CCP told us in a round about way to get bent and that the logs 'Showed nothing'. This was in Fade or Dek I think.
yep CCP has told me that too. thats why i fly with fraps now. a GM told me that there was no problems in XXX system. i wrote back " oh really i have fraps of the system going to SH!T would you like to see it."? 2 hours later i had my ship back, and i still have all the fraps from every fight i have been in the last 6 weeks. and screen shots that show my buring ship for 20mins.
good times, i CAN'T WAIT to walk in the *** ass stations cus we need WOW in space oh and walk on the planets too. can't forget about that. i want to do that sooo back CCP forgot about fixing the servers i want to walk around in the station and "chuck norris" Deathgrip in hand to hand combat. love ya Deathgrip just pickin on ya
edit: remember deathgrip z-a
-------------------------------------------------------------- Aasia: |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.04.12 04:40:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Lowa ... without dishing out the goods about EVE software design.
Erm, which goods are you thinking about? From what I see I cannot identify much good design. Especially the scaleability is horrific. It is the bad software design which causes the problems now and which is the reason why a solution is so very difficult to get because you would have to rewrite a good deal of the software
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LePrince
Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.04.12 04:44:00 -
[71]
I give my vote to the walk-in-station feature if having those guys hang around inside will decrease our lag in space.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Krystian
Caldari No Quarter.
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Posted - 2007.04.12 05:18:00 -
[72]
Originally by: cptblood Had a 6 vs around 12 server could not handle it lost a sleipnir petition got refused( fight was in venal btw), alot of people think its due to the new gang system.Personally i think its due to to much content being added all the time,and not enough effort being put into making the game more playable.
I personally have been playing this game for 3 years and yet again i watch ccp do nothing as things start to mess up, If its all about money ccp you soon wont be getting anymore of mine.Unless i see a vast improvment very soon.
o/
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Baby Exit
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Posted - 2007.04.12 05:27:00 -
[73]
I think it might be something empire/wreck releated, cant tell is it client or server or depending or Both. about 2 Month ago we had battle about 20vs20 or so in 0.5 System in Devoid where war targets undocked mostly middle of us. In that second they undocked My client started those hickups, still managed to lock 3 targets, after that nothing couldnt be locked.
After first ships went down (and wrecks come) my client started hickupping badly, and for others in our gang too and for hostiles also. I saw like 1frame / minute saw shields going down in 1, next one showed me in hull but last one showed me again with half shields (armor and partly hull gone still). After every War target was dead /left things started run better but still had hickups.
Then we moved to 0.0 for month, we had there upto 100v100 battles, and just minimal lag, and fps problems where sighted and those 'normal' jumping lag spikes. But no hickups, whene there was even tens of wrecks, and tens of ships still on battle field.
after that period we had smaler fight again in Lowsec at Domain, 10v10 or so, and again everyone reported hickups, client freezes. i jumped 3min after battle from gate to place where battle has happened. There was like 10 wrecks around gate, and my client started hickupping immidietly. After every wreck was salvaged hickup was gone.
But it realy seems that fights in empire are over, unless they are not realy small, more like 1v1, 5v1 or so. But seems that server realy cant scope even small scale battles in low populated/used ares, cant tell anything about high sec ares thoe they give me goosebumps anyway ;)
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AntiReal
Caldari Cohortes Vigilum Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 05:38:00 -
[74]
Edited by: AntiReal on 12/04/2007 05:40:44 Edited by: AntiReal on 12/04/2007 05:37:38 I think it might be something empire/wreck releated, cant tell is it client or server or depending on Both. About 2 Month ago we had battle about 20vs20 or so in 0.5 System in Devoid where war targets undocked mostly middle of us. In that second they undocked My client started those hickups, still managed to lock 3 targets, after that nothing couldnt be locked. Target caler was changing on the fly becouse there wasnt lots of people who could call targets becouse of hickups /client freezes /ctd's.
After first ships went down (and wrecks come) my client started hickupping badly, and for others in our gang too and for hostiles also. I saw like 1 frame / minute. First saw shields going down in 1, next one showed me in hull but last one showed me again with half shields (armor and partly hull gone still). After every War target was dead /left things started run better but still had hickups.
Then we moved to 0.0 for month, we had there upto 100v100 battles, and just minimal lag, fps problems wore sighted and those 'normal' jumping lag spikes. But no hickups, game was playable 'all the time' when there was even tens of wrecks, and tens of ships still on battle field.
After that period we had smaler fight again in Lowsec at Domain, 10v10 or so, and again everyone reported hickups, client freezes. i jumped 3min after battle thru gate to place where battle has happened. There was like 10 wrecks around gate, and my client started hickupping immidietly. After every wreck was salvaged hickup was gone.
But it realy seems that fights in empire are over, unless they are not realy small, more like 1v1, 5v1 or so. But seems that server realy cant scope even small scale battles in low populated/used ares, cant tell anything about high sec ares thoe they give me goosebumps anyway ;)
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Sola Sola
Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.
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Posted - 2007.04.12 05:41:00 -
[75]
I was in that fight Eddz and I 100% agree with you. It seemed out fleets both jumped at the same time...then you guys jumped back through and that was it for most of our gang. One frame it is clear....the next there are 10-15 battleships on the overview...next frame Eddz is in half armour...next frame he is full shields....next frame I'm dead.
I didn't petition my ship for the fact that both sides experienced horrible horrible lag and we were outgunned to the point that the outcome wasn't in our favor anyways. Was shaping up to be a nice fight though
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Twoside
Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 06:29:00 -
[76]
spot on Eddz, lag was just insane. Even with everything imaginable turned off regarding effects, damage messages, logging, resolution, playing in windowed mode, using ramdisk, turning off all electrical equipment in my appartment and castrated my cat - 3 frames per minute.
This is just not sad, but is inexplainable and proves this game is broken beyond recognition.
/whinemode off, you cant have my stuff!!! |
Father Weebles
North Face Force Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.12 06:43:00 -
[77]
meh yeah sometimes lag is horrendous for no reason
One time some of NFF and allies fought MM and their allies in Jachnau which is a couple jumps out of Agil. The lag there was horrible, and for no apparent reason since there was about half a dozen ships on both sides and no more than 30 in local. That's EMPIRE. 00 wouldve been a lot worse.
/me empathizes with KIA hope your ships get reimbursed
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
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papaPadla
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.12 06:51:00 -
[78]
Well things are strange lately... i mean way back when... was pretty simple and easy to figure out... put more ppl get more lag... but still you could have a decent 100vs100 fight nowdays... you have module lag for no obvious reason, freeze times, oh and i love the halfload thing... you know... when everyone in gang sees only 2-3 targets and sees that no matter what's going on on the battlefield, jump in and jump out lag... and so on. And dun tell me bout the new features... as 90% of em still do nuthing good, just messing things up: Gang/fleet thing only makes a gang harder to manage with no actual benefits unless they implement more stuff for it. Voice... same deal... needs alot more features to beat TS/ventrilo etc walking in stations... yeah right etc -------------------------------------
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Ewa Quillam
Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 07:22:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam I'm starting to get tired of this. I'm currently running 2 accounts, but one will go away as soon as the current subscription ends.
This is too much of a mockery. You want to enforce a system player cap, fine, make it 50-60 players, but at least make it good.
This game loses in popularity due to terrible technical problems.
I'll be for auction in November/December, what would you like more HACS5 or CS5?
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Varrakk
Chosen Path Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.04.12 07:24:00 -
[80]
My desktop with a NVIDIA card, took a huge hit in fps from the last patch. I thought it was in general.
My AMD dual core 7800gtx had 11,2fps (Vista machine). The alt on a Acer Ferrari with a ATI 9700mobile was running at 29,2fps.
Both at the same battle
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Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 07:30:00 -
[81]
Can someone please explain to me how it is that sometimes I cant see the enemies appear on overview( although some of my corp can) but the moment one of them pops his wreck appears even though I still cannot see any enemies?
I mean this shows that my client is recieving some information from the server but not all of it. And I am then able to move, align, warp off and back but never see anyone to shoot!
F4T4L Recruitment |
mr bighelmet
EnTech Pax Familia
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Posted - 2007.04.12 07:35:00 -
[82]
i'm running two account from same computer, both are set the same. Even when they both fly in same system sometime one of them got lots of lag and the othet is happy lag free monky. Something is really ****** up with the code.
If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest |
Eta Carinea
Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 07:36:00 -
[83]
I was looking at this thread located here yesterday.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=394291 (Its the Best movies ever thread)
The G V FOE video was about the time i joined the game. Those were the days, you can clearly see 80+ ship battles with little or no LAG. It does raise the question as to whether CCP is taking this game in the right direction. My thoughts at the momment are it will work out in the end lag will get a lot better and such fights will return to the EVE universe. However, as time goes by it gets harder and harder to believe this.
Eta MercU Forums
Quid si coelum ruat - What if heaven falls? |
31i73
BGG Alektorophobia
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Posted - 2007.04.12 08:13:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Dregann Edited by: Dregann on 11/04/2007 21:14:17 I remember about a year ago i would love going into 30V30 Fleet fights... No lag at all The Good Old days...
"the old times" I remember, was when ppl remembered being able to have lagfree 100vs100 fights.
Now we look back and remember how 30vs30 was working well..
I guess next year we all look back at this moment how 5vs5 fights were lag free. Oh the good old days...
I guess BoD/CCP is trying to save EVE by making ppl want to stop playing so it'd be playable again for those that stay.
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WraithFire
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Posted - 2007.04.12 08:15:00 -
[85]
Edited by: WraithFire on 12/04/2007 08:12:51 Could not agree more Eta. I miss the days when lags are non-existent or even minimal in large fleet engagements, but as time goes by, lag became the norm, which is quite unfortunate in every degree. I truly believe that it is not the client nor our computers that is the root of the lag phenomena, but rather the insensitivity of CCP to fix the problem that may cost them subscribers.
Personally I own 3 accounts, and I cancelled one this year. I am just playing the remainder for my two accounts then I am off. I believe that Eve's strong point is in a large-lag free fleet battles, but since CCP forgot that strong point, I just don't know if its worth it at all to stay and be aggravated by slide shows in every freakin' battle.
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Davin Intaki
The Graduates Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.04.12 08:45:00 -
[86]
I can only say I have had bad lag in stations, and we have had strange things happen in fleet movements, like half of a fleet end up at the wrong stargate for some reason. I also have had problems with my cargo and station containers not updating quantities. It didnt do this until the last big patch.
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INZi
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.12 08:47:00 -
[87]
with eve getting more and more developed your computer specs has to evolve with the game. i bet that 75% of lag reported here is due to your own computer specs beeing outdated.
ccp wants the game to develop graphiclly as well as functionlly (?) and im sure u guys wants that as well or do you still wanna be back to 3 yos again?
my "lag" decreased _alot_ when i upgraded my computer, and i meen _alot_
all moaning is sick
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hantwo
S.A.S Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.04.12 09:07:00 -
[88]
Originally by: INZi with eve getting more and more developed your computer specs has to evolve with the game. i bet that 75% of lag reported here is due to your own computer specs beeing outdated.
ccp wants the game to develop graphiclly as well as functionlly (?) and im sure u guys wants that as well or do you still wanna be back to 3 yos again?
my "lag" decreased _alot_ when i upgraded my computer, and i meen _alot_
all moaning is sick
i bet 75% of all stats you quote are made up
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dan drorgar
Minmatar principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.12 09:20:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Utterly pathetic. The lag gets worse every patch, even with the so-called "need for speed" and so forth
"Need for Speed" is a marketing initiative to keep players from cancelling their subscriptions, it's unlikely that they're doing any real coding. They can't be THAT bad at it, can they?
PROMO Director of Not Speaking For My Alliance.
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Cardassius
Seraphin Technologies S.E.R.A
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Posted - 2007.04.12 09:35:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Dahin
EDIT: and I jumped in last, it was prolly the fact that I had a better puter than the rest that got me to load first. I also noticed that every time someone warped or jumped into the gate there would be a "lagspike" of about 10-15 secs.
This is pure harddisk access ;)
I've change my cache folders to temp ramdisk and voila 95% less lag with fleet fights (warping in/out etc accesses your harddisk very often and when 50 ppl jump/warp in you load a ****load of data).
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geewiz
InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.12 09:37:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Noluck Ned Can someone please explain to me how it is that sometimes I cant see the enemies appear on overview( although some of my corp can) but the moment one of them pops his wreck appears even though I still cannot see any enemies?
I mean this shows that my client is recieving some information from the server but not all of it. And I am then able to move, align, warp off and back but never see anyone to shoot!
I have exactly the same problem mate. I've tried everything I can think of and it seems completely random, sometimes in big fights I see all the reds can pick them from overview when FC calls them no problems, other times I see 30-40% of reds and it's almost impossible to focus fire which if your enemy has a full overview can swing a whole fight.
And to OP /signed
I'd much rather be in a great fight and go down in flames shooting away than win a fight to lag monster as to me it is a hollow victory.
gee
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DANGEROUS
Omega Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.12 09:43:00 -
[92]
I support UTTERLY the concept that CCP should be working on making the game PLAYABLE AND NO MORE NEW CONTENT RUBBISH UNTIL WHAT WE HAVE WORKS.
Lag is ALSO a major reason for me being inactive and both my accounts cancelled at this time (although i have a long time left till they expire).
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mr bighelmet
EnTech Pax Familia
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Posted - 2007.04.12 09:43:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Cardassius
Originally by: Dahin
EDIT: and I jumped in last, it was prolly the fact that I had a better puter than the rest that got me to load first. I also noticed that every time someone warped or jumped into the gate there would be a "lagspike" of about 10-15 secs.
This is pure harddisk access ;)
I've change my cache folders to temp ramdisk and voila 95% less lag with fleet fights (warping in/out etc accesses your harddisk very often and when 50 ppl jump/warp in you load a ****load of data).
I'm not going to start complaining about using hard disk cache in the age of 1GB + computers and the fact that the client does not come with option to run the game in memory. I agree it create less lag i also know that it's not solving the problem, my cache is on ramdisk and even though it solve some of the problems it does not a big part of them. What does **** me is the fact that CCP seem to not take those issue into account when they develop new fetures, the game is worse then it was a year ago not better and that is the unacceptable fact. it's not that there is lag in 30V30 fight or in heavy trafic system, it's the fact that 8 months ago there was much less lag in the same senario then there is now, as most people that posted here said we want to look at the future and say it's going to be better not that it's going to be worse.
If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest |
Crellion
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.12 09:51:00 -
[94]
You are all missing the point:
Thats precisely why they prepare walking around in station game. So that you can go do that when the lag in the actual game is too much.
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Chronos VIII
Amarr S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.
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Posted - 2007.04.12 09:55:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Sentar Manar You should try missions in Rens ugggg....
But as I like to come up with solutions here is what I think will take the Lag down a few notches.
#1: Remove Jove space from the servers. It exists as proven by Scanners however there is nothing there. Several hundred solar systems eating up space and adding to lag doing nothing. Remove ethem from the server untill they are ready for the players to use.
#2: ***** down on Macro miners. Just clean it up, less fake people less lag.
#3: Remove Jet cans in asteroid belts, if you live in empire many belts as you know become infested with empty anchored jet cans. Clean these about once a week (don't know if they do that or not).
#4: Remove unused stations. Stations that are used by no one to a few people can be removed in a multiple station system and the Agents moved elsewhere. I can think of lots of stations that can go.
#5: Last ad more Severs to share the load. We like extra content but lagged up its useless just add some more severs (yes I know its expensive) particularly before updates that have huge amounts of extra content that the server needs to deal with (e.g Wrecks.)
#6: Kick people from the server who idle more than 20 minutes!
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DeathGrip
Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.12 10:02:00 -
[96]
TBH I dont know whats up with CCP and the lag issue.
PVP is really weird atm. I have jumped into 10 hostiles and lagged out horrible, and then other times I have jumped into 40-50 hostiles, and nothing, plays smooth.
Anything over 40-50 vs 40-50 is end game atm. Your going to lag horrible, your going to have overview bugs, half the time you will lose your ship before you know its lost, and you will be locking a target that has been destroyed for 3min.
I recall with station ping pong we fought with 50-100 vs 50-100 and very little lag issues. I think POS's have probably destroyed this game lag wise, and a few other ways I don't care to discuss. Everyone said it was the BM's creating the lag, but that is not the case anymore.
What I think has caused the lag increase:
More people on server pretty much any time of the day now POS's If you recall when eve first started, guns hit anything, missles hit anying, moving or not. Well now there is a lot of calculations if your gun its, or how much damage that missle does. I think in fleet battles there is just way to much to calculate for any computer. But still dosnt explain why you can jump into a system and not see the hostiles on the gate with you. Nobody is shooting so kinda voids this point some.
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Darth Maule
Pitch Black Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.04.12 10:11:00 -
[97]
I have played in other mmo and it was usualy the same problem. When the game would first go live lag wasnt much of a issue. As content gets added it creates additional load on the servers,hence more lag.I have seen some decent mmo become so laggy they were almost impossible to play . Their Dev's were more intent on content than performance, when it is nice to have more content more ppl will stick around a good game if the performance dosent go down the drain.Just my thoughts on the matter. Darth Maule
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Liam Galagher
Savey
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Posted - 2007.04.12 10:22:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Liam Galagher on 12/04/2007 10:19:25
Originally by: Crellion You are all missing the point:
Thats precisely why they prepare walking around in station game. So that you can go do that when the lag in the actual game is too much.
lol, a good one!
maybe thats the way as crellion said, when 40% of the gamers will be busy snooping around inside the stations, the lag in space would finaly decrease...
_________________________________________
*** i¦ve got the finger on the button *** |
Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.04.12 10:26:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Liam Galagher Edited by: Liam Galagher on 12/04/2007 10:19:25
Originally by: Crellion You are all missing the point:
Thats precisely why they prepare walking around in station game. So that you can go do that when the lag in the actual game is too much.
lol, a good one!
maybe thats the way as crellion said, when 40% of the gamers will be busy snooping around inside the stations, the lag in space would finaly decrease...
Lmao sooo true :P --- Alexandra Frigaro > These RISE guys have a better spawn rate than angels... |
The Dokter
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.04.12 10:47:00 -
[100]
I think it is an overview and/or wreck isseu and maybe something to do with empire.
The worst lag so far I had when I was carebearing around in a cosmos system. The moment I warped in on a complex, my client froze up for more then a minute. The problem seems to get worse with more stuff on your overview (in this case more npc's and wrecks) and also with wrecks added to your overview. Because the day after, the complex wasn't done before, and my client loaded rather fast but still with some lag and when I did a mission in the same system with only 5 npc's there was no lag at all and everyhting was going fine. Thought it was maybe this complex but also missions with more then 10 npc's freezes up your client.
You also see that when you are jumping in on a gate camp in 0.0, the more stuff on your overview, the more lag it generates, especially with wrecks and cans lying around the gate. And the nasty part is that it doesn't stop with the "normal" jump in lag, but it stays for the rest of the battle.
Agree with the op, would love eve that would run normal up to 50 vs 50 or even 100 vs 100. After that small lag wouldn't be that big of a problem, because otherwise nobody would ever us that very nice walking in station feature
"It is a good idea to "shop around" before you settle on a doctor. He can kill you." |
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Caer Dallben
Die Apokalyptischen Reiter Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.12 10:50:00 -
[101]
signed
Lag is so unbearable , the average player just cant be bothered. And the new fleet system simply s*cks (canculations creating lag also?) A lot of ppl skilled those gang bonis ships that are now useless while moving due to lag. Imho at least let the "gang" have double so many members + bonis.
We fight the game mechanics anymore, not each other
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.04.12 10:55:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Crellion You are all missing the point:
Thats precisely why they prepare walking around in station game. So that you can go do that when the lag in the actual game is too much.
I can imagine some of the dialogues in stations now ...
A: how does it look outside? B: calm, but extremely laggy A: I'll stay in here and go fondle that CONCORDE blonde in the corner then ...
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.12 11:02:00 -
[103]
Was some odd lag in Citadel today (4/11) too, weird bacwards warps, modules that would not stop the reload bliking, capcitor going up while active tank was wide open, rats bouncing around in space. Derelik and Devoid seemed fine thoug. -AS |
hantwo
S.A.S Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.04.12 11:05:00 -
[104]
Edited by: hantwo on 12/04/2007 11:02:17 i brought this up here http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=496928
eve atm is a sad state of affairs
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Takahashi Arran
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.12 11:13:00 -
[105]
I agree with all of the above- lag is ridiculous, by far the largest problem in eve- look at the people complaining here ccp this is not an alt moan this is a real serious problem that is crippling pvp combat throughout eve. Furthermore its an ongoing problem- during the last tournament lag was directly resposible for cora/sani losing a match when hardeners could not be activated. If you can't get it right 5v5 in controlled conditions then think how much worse it is in the real eve :(. I hope this is not going to become another thread like the amaar one and you'll have the prudence to reply before then.
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Ortu Konsinni
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 11:24:00 -
[106]
To add to the sentiment of this topic, all I can do is confirm that my experience is the same. The fight from yesterday which Eddz brought up in the first post took place in two parts, pretty much. The first part was playable although still unjustifiably laggy, considering the number of ships involved. Playable nonetheless. The second part took place 15 to 20 minutes later and was an utter ****fest that leaves me wondering how any kills even took place. Ships I meant to lock actually showed up as lock a few minutes after I asked the game to lock them, and it seems I (somehow) got on a few killmails, but this isn't how things should be. Obviously. It is, for lack of a better word, STUPID, and indeed it used not to be like that. I've always been used to an amount of lag in fleet battles, but smaller skirmishes like the ones I've been involved in lately should not be unplayable, ever. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships! |
Darcuese
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.12 11:34:00 -
[107]
This is some new situations. You might call it lag or something else, but freezing expirianced by many different ppl all around with quality PC's is ,,,,,bad.
I miss those day knowing someone is shooting (even though i dont see them) but screen was acting normal at least.
Or those 2 - 3 min of late modules activation.
But this now, well, its just scare me. Every time i enter a combat im scared that my PC will blow in to my face me, myself and I ------> |
Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.12 13:56:00 -
[108]
Were you using the new-and-improved-lag-reducing-skill-point-based fleet system that was supposed to revolutionize how we fight fleet battles? The one that reduces lag by locking up everyones client for several seconds whenever someone in the same fleet on the same grid tries to do anything.
Convert your fleet back into a gang and start chewing through your opposition while they are still trying to get their mouse to move to lock you! A real kick in the teeth for anyone who trained leadership skills.
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Alrione
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.04.12 14:13:00 -
[109]
Originally by: INZi with eve getting more and more developed your computer specs has to evolve with the game. i bet that 75% of lag reported here is due to your own computer specs beeing outdated.
ccp wants the game to develop graphiclly as well as functionlly (?) and im sure u guys wants that as well or do you still wanna be back to 3 yos again?
my "lag" decreased _alot_ when i upgraded my computer, and i meen _alot_
all moaning is sick
So, are you telling me that my pc, that runs almost any new game on highest settings (EG, I had Gothic 3, highest settings, when it just came out and everyone was whining about how much of lag they have) Is struggling to run 5 year old game engine? Sorry, but I believe you lost this argument. What it is, in my opinion, is that CCP keeps adding things, new features, graphic updates, to this old engine and it simply cannot cope. I am waiting for a new client and I hope that will improove situtaion with client side lag and hiccups. As for the server lag, I cannot say much since I havnt expirienced it in full "glory". --------------------------------
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Zabir Kal'Uragan
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Posted - 2007.04.12 14:35:00 -
[110]
I simply want to know from CCP when they plan on doing a major upgrade of the hardware.
If the reply is that the hardware is sufficient then when will the software be sufficient to run the game reliably throughout the empire and 0.0 for battles of say 5, 20, and 30 ships on each side on a moderate spec system without lag becoming a factor. By that I mean I dont mind the odd 2-3 sec slow down but when you suddenly go from smooth to complete system halt for 30-90 seconds, often losing conn or ship or both it's unplayable.
If the issue is software, instead of hiring 300 new content ppl, lets see the blogs about you hiring 100 new programmers with no job but to improve the system coding so that the game doesnt fall over every time someone undocks and decides to shoot someone.
I honestly think we're getting to the point now where the engines age is showing and I hope they fix things before my desire to continue playing is whittled away.
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Sieges
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Posted - 2007.04.12 14:50:00 -
[111]
Please do not focus on new content until all Bugs and Lag have been resolved. The lag is very frustrating.
We don't need Walking In Stations or "Heat" added to our guns. We want to be able to fight and warp into systems smoothly. We want the client to stop randomly freezing up for a few seconds. Focus on fixing these types of issues and you will keep your player base happy. -- 2ó |
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.12 15:10:00 -
[112]
This has been the case for a while now, certainly down south. I think every op I've been on has been affected by lag, and we're not just talking about 300+ pilots in a system, I am talking about when there are 70-80 pilots in an engagement. To see that 20-pilot engagements are lagging out is just shocking.
What winds me up the most, is that 9/10 times "our logs show nothing". Whereas guys like this one can whine on the forums about a Raven lost during a mission and miraculously they get their ship back.
I think the only realistic solution we'll see is either a major rewrite of the code responsible for load balancing (passing a system onto a dedicated node dynamically), or CCP having to install 5000 or so nodes in London.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Gekha
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Posted - 2007.04.12 15:22:00 -
[113]
I had one of those screen freezes of 20-30 seconds with 2 (!) reds warping in. I was orbiting a gate in jump range with my ranis, my autopilot was set to the next system, but I was killed and podded even though I activated the auto when I saw them warping in. The system had a mere 4 ppl in it.
petition rejected, 100 million down the drain inclusive implants.
cheers ccp
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ARGH69
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Posted - 2007.04.12 15:59:00 -
[114]
why isn't anyone addressing the fact that ccp deployed their blade servers about a year ago?? there was supposed to be 3 times the server power and when the blade servres were deployed lag was greatly reduced, i remember. i take a 6 month break from the game to come to pre-blade server lag and the eve population has not trippled!! what is going on here? I WANT SOME ANSWERS AND I WANT THEM NOW!
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.12 16:02:00 -
[115]
Originally by: ARGH69 why isn't anyone addressing the fact that ccp deployed their blade servers about a year ago?? there was supposed to be 3 times the server power and when the blade servres were deployed lag was greatly reduced, i remember. i take a 6 month break from the game to come to pre-blade server lag and the eve population has not trippled!! what is going on here? I WANT SOME ANSWERS AND I WANT THEM NOW!
You have to bear in mind that of the 10k or so extra players we have online at any one time (when compared to this time last year), are concentrated mainly in empire.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
cptblood
Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.12 16:23:00 -
[116]
Edited by: cptblood on 12/04/2007 16:19:49 I think some sort of response from ccp would be nice, If only to proove they actually read what the people of eve are thinking about.Also this might show they give a s**t about what their customers think.
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ARGH69
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Posted - 2007.04.12 16:39:00 -
[117]
no the average player count has remained about the same with the exception that *sometimes* it is higher at peak player count from last year.
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 16:56:00 -
[118]
There are two kinds of lag;
Loss of frames per second and unresponsive client.
Server lag that leads to targeting lag, module lag, ships jumping around the screen or just disappearing, that kinda stuff.
I've hardly ever had server lag, but what does get me killed too damn often is client lag and loss of FPS.
If I can run a latest generation game like Supreme Commander, with all settings on max, and get 30 frames per second when an army of 400 units smashes into an enemy base of 300 odd units and 150 structures, all with calculated trajectory weapons doing calculated damage, with awesome graphics and sophisticated models....
...How come I get lagged down to 5 frames a second when 50 tiny dots surrounded by white squares with a little red box's next to them warp in on me?! And that’s zoomed right out, God help me if I'm zoomed right in and they come in at 0km!
I know that all the different stuff in eve is handled by different departments and cells, but imho CCP should push ALL effort possible into rebuilding the graphics engine from scratch, offloading all the graphics stuff to the graphics card like it should be, and fixing the UI.
And Fixing the UI includes all the stuff that’s missing, like clear indication that I'm being warp scrammed, because lag combined with lack of UI indications plus losing a BS because one moment your warping and then **FPS FREEZE**..... **TIME PASSES**.... "speed : 0 m/s" and suddenly finding an interceptor and 20 fighter drones on your ass is Not Fun.
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Twoside
Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 17:03:00 -
[119]
Originally by: KIAEddZ Loses I understand are being petitioned from both sides, but its not the losses we care about, we wanted that fight, we'd been waiting all night for it, is it just Khanid?
Mine got bounced, nothing to support the claim. Guess we're all seeing things.. or... it's not a bug, it's a feature! ;) |
Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.04.12 17:52:00 -
[120]
So what's the best path to escalate this effectively?
What does it take to make CCP understand that this is the serious sh*t ?
EVE should be getting better, not worse :( And truthfully, parts of it are, we just can't experience them as well now because the basic functionality is hosed.
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.04.12 17:59:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Na'Khan
But i seriously think they will give us a
"We will be working on it, in the next patch"
When the next patch comes..
"We upgraded the crappy hardware we had, with "blah blah blah", things should run abit smoother"... 1 month down the line its back to square one..
Precisely ... The marketing people will answer again and promise to fix stuff, while the lag keeps increasing and the devs are busy doing some other pointless things.
Quote:
Also, walking in station's, even if this lag wasn't happening, WALKING IN STATIONS... wtf is the point ??
Well now that EVE is slowly becoming RMT, this is a great opportunity to attract Second Life customers. Then in 2008 we will have EVE Sims Online where you can buy nice clothes with real $ while a handful of 2003 PVPers who still know the hidden "undock" option can duke it out in lagged 0.0 somewhere (in their Titans).
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.12 18:02:00 -
[122]
The Devs play the game. We know this. They MUST know about the problems.
Personally, just a "we know there are severe gamebreaking lag/framerate/rescource/bug problems ever since the last patch, so stfu while we try to fix it" would be nice.
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.04.12 18:06:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Soporo The Devs play the game. We know this. They MUST know about the problems.
Personally, just a "we know there are severe gamebreaking lag/framerate/rescource/bug problems ever since the last patch, so stfu while we try to fix it" would be nice.
TBH nothing they could possibly say would help, they've promised stuff far too often and they never fixed the lag (or drone bugs etc. etc.). They simply have to sit down and fix the damn problems, till then they'd better keep quiet and humble about it.
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KaptnSparrow
Caldari TARDZ Gods of Night and Day
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Posted - 2007.04.12 19:00:00 -
[124]
this is weird. I get bad lag sometimes but only when I jump in systems like jita.
And honestly I can't remember when I got the last time lag which made the game unplayable (except lokcing bug...) Maybe its more related to your used technologies? Or to the region you are playing in?
And yes i'm active in small gang to medium fleet fights.
my specs:
PC 1; 2.8 GHz Pentium HT, 1 GB Ram, 6600 Geforce AGP (3 years old or so) windows XP PC 2; IBM X60 1 GB Ram, dual core, windows vista
my main regions:
feyth - small/medium gangs and medium fleet combat esotiria - small/medium gangs and medium fleet combat heimatar - solo or small gang molden heath - solo or small gang
Some parts are related to server issues like the locking bug or module activation bug (only got it in motsu/aramachi)
other parts are related to client issues with freeze on jumpin or black screen of death during undocking.
just ideas.
...eve's worst pirate...
...if I missed killmails of the past, please update the killboard! |
Aramark
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.12 19:39:00 -
[125]
alot of good points in this thread and alot of sad stories that is CCP's fault. the only thing we can do as players is keep this topic up and keep putting in our stories about it.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Aasia: |
Twoside
Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 19:45:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Aramark alot of good points in this thread and alot of sad stories that is CCP's fault. the only thing we can do as players is keep this topic up and keep putting in our stories about it.
the key is at ccp reading, caring and/or responding ;) |
ARGH69
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Posted - 2007.04.12 19:56:00 -
[127]
I WANT ANSWERS NOW!! WHAT HAPPENED TO THE POWER OF THE BLADE SERVERS?!
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Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2007.04.12 20:50:00 -
[128]
You are all clearly imagining the lag.
We'll cut down on the amount of drones, that'll sort it out.
erm
Take away bookmarks and have WTZ instead. Yeah it's them darn bookmarks loading down our servers. And you lot of ingratiates are copying them and making it worse.
erm
But wait, we can have fleet battles with thousands of ships, can't we?
erm
Look at that interesting thing. Over there. Behind you. <runs away>
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.12 21:33:00 -
[129]
I love when you jump into a system (like Niarja) and it takes like 60 seconds before anything happens, and after those 60 seconds, you're in a station 30 jumps away! xD - supposedly killed by 4 people you never saw.
Awesome stuff CCP!
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.12 21:33:00 -
[130]
Originally by: ARGH69 I WANT ANSWERS NOW!! WHAT HAPPENED TO THE POWER OF THE BLADE SERVERS?!
I already told you:
In November (?) we got 66 nodes, increasing the then 102, to 168. Whilst each node can run multiple systems, we know that single systems cannot be split over multiple nodes. That is why Jita, a system with a dedicated node and commonly reaching 700 pilots has to have stations, gates, agents, and asteroid belts removed in order to manage the population. Judging by the recent 700 pilot cap in the Alliance/Coalition battle, I suspect this is towards the upper limit of what a single node can handle.
As there are 5000 or so accessible systems in Eve, those nodes must run on average 30 systems each. Probably a little more when you consider systems like Jita have a dedicated node. You have to also consider that there are more pilots in empire than in 0.0; I'd estimate a 2/3 split in favour of empire (eg. 10 systems per node in empire, 20 systems per node in 0.0). Taking that into account, our maximum limit of 700 pilots on a dedicated node, drops to 230 pilots when that node carries 20 systems. No wonder nodes crash on 100v100 pilots, but 10v10 is still shocking.
In that time between November 06 and April 07, we've got roughly, on average, 7-8k more users at peak times. Increasing the 25k users online at once, to 33k users online at once. That's a 52% increase in pilots after they have upgraded the hardware by 64% in order to cope with existing lag.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
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ARGH69
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Posted - 2007.04.12 22:00:00 -
[131]
they replaced the entire TQ cluster with brand new dual core AMD blade servers from IBM. when they did this i remember i logged on to find virtually no lag in my daily activities in the game. then i lost interest and put my account into hibernation only to come back 5-6 months later to find the kali patch implemented...and the lag to be at pre-blade server levels (and worse it seems). there is supposed to be WELL OVER 2x the server power from this new blade server cluster compared to the older TQ cluster. i was under the impression that EVE is safe from lag until we hit 45k peak player limit.
7k peak players (and thats not even every day ffs!) should not be crippling the non-asian TQ cluster! something is happening. has ccp decided to split the blade servers to accomidate the growing EVE asian market or what?....what happened to the server power?...
WE WANT ANSWERS!!!!!!!!
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Ortu Konsinni
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 22:09:00 -
[132]
I'd like to say something on lag based on another experience tonight; there were about the same amount of people involved as in the fight mentioned in the first post, so it was a comparable situation. It was also in the same location, so yeah.
Anyway, we gathered for a fight, it happened, and what I did (because I heard about it today) was turn my overview off (by pressing Tab) before I jumped in. Well lo and behold, I had no lag at all. Actually, I did, but it was all client side (like when I'm outside of Jita) and very mild.
The downside was that I didn't dare bring the overview back up, but that to me at least shows that this whole lag problem may well be caused by the overview (reminder: a consistent source of bugs and problems) Some of my corpmates who did experience insanely bad (just like yesterday) did have their overviews up so.... yeah.
Probably something for CCP to look into right there. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships! |
Phoebus Athenian
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 22:17:00 -
[133]
More than agreed... If we can't have 20 vs 20 battles then WTH?
---
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Fojar
Caldari Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 22:20:00 -
[134]
My Kihteled Lag : http://www.fojart.co.uk/vids/KihtLAG.wmv (today's fight)
It stayed like that until i had to relog
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 22:20:00 -
[135]
Same again tonight tbh, 20 vs 20, they jump into us, all of our clients lock up, and then I am dead n podded even though I am 50 off the gate and aligned to warp out t safe...., the fight losses and kills are about even so this isnt whining etc, this is a heart felt complaint about the state of the game I love.
WHat on EARTH is going on with this game, 40 man fight and its totally unplayable??
Its not my fkin pc either, its not my specs, and if its a client problem then its a code in the client problem, most of my guys are proper geeks, with high end geek pcs.
SO SO SO tired of this. Eve is fast becoming no fun, and i am struggling to get my guys to agree to engage right now!!!?
KIA EVE Home
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Marlon Shakespeare
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Posted - 2007.04.12 23:01:00 -
[136]
We've experienced exactly the same symptoms over the past few weeks. In one engagement we lost 16 BS ships in a row during a 20 v 20 (with not a single kill apart from our initial primary - no-one in our gang was able to even lock the secondary target), purely since our entire fleet was lagged for 15 minutes, when our opponents jumped in a carrier.
Although we would have lost the engagement overall, the ratio and experience was so bad it's simply not worth going out in anything other than small gangs. Suffice to say not a single petition was granted stating "no evidence". I would hope that this swelling body of evidence is enough to get a response on the matter.
In addition, over the past week I have been experiencing chronic disconnections on two seperate machines (while TS and other net connections stay alive), having never had DC problems before...anyone else having this problem?
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roadrage639
Caldari Velites Praefectus
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Posted - 2007.04.12 23:08:00 -
[137]
Lag is ment to be a feature in order to keep the GM's employeed answering the loss peitions. ---------------- If You Can't Kill It, Slap It! The Man Who Runs Will Fight Again
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jnky
Obsidian Inc. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 23:09:00 -
[138]
wtb fps
Its not even funny looking forward to an engagement then not being able to enjoy the experience....Cant remember the last good fight I had, win or loose its the lag which hurts the most :(
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Beetle Boy
Minmatar Obsidian Inc. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.12 23:27:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Beetle Boy on 12/04/2007 23:25:53 Dev's stop doing all these stupid "Walking In Stations" and "Flying on Planet Surface" and start Re-writing this damm code. You though the server would not brake this 29k barrier but now is almost 29k a night. We see when new server hardware installed we find a great improvement but then you add stuff the game doesn't really need. Whats the point of playing a game that wouldn't lag with 40v40 but lags now. I might aswell cancel my subscription and play that bloody world of warcraft. The Fleet System still create tons of laggggg. POS spammed system are crap to try to jump to. The way i see it the old guys of EvE will get tired of lag with a same fleet battle and will leave. Just either improve the servers or re-write the code and get a decent game engine rather than we one atm which probely hasn't changed since the start of the game |
Acronikosvz
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Posted - 2007.04.12 23:35:00 -
[140]
I totally agree, Late on the topic, But I was in Egghelende* I know it infested with dirty pirates. Meanwhile I was undocking in my transport ship hoping for a lucky run from the station to a damn gate ... Undock with atleast a crummy 9million isk worth of crap (cleaning up assets, had nothing to fly for) ... loading ... loading, Finally I undock, Lag from frame to frame, freeze for about, what 5 seconds, look at local about one person in, he comes storming in with his ship shoots the sh*t into me, all I can hear is sounds, 10 seconds later I end up in scolluzer ... I mean WTF ? Now you know why im not taking my new ships for a ride but playing it smooth on chat channels and empire. Sort it out or you're going to loose some nice players. - |
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Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.13 06:22:00 -
[141]
i dont know how many people will not cancel his account if the lag is not fixed in the nexts few months. There isnt anything more worse on an online game than be killed without a chance to defend himself
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Gaius BaItar
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Posted - 2007.04.13 08:44:00 -
[142]
Old characters have always been in favor of increasing the number of players in Eve. Bring us more targets! We need more people to shoot with or against! Now we discover Eve has limitations and itÆs not ready for all of us. As a new Eve addict, I donÆt know how it used to be, but I see how it is now. Having more than 100 in a system is so bad, almost unplayable. What are we suppose to do?! I have a good computer, a good connection, yet it seems IÆm not able to meet the requirements for this game. I donÆt know what needs to be done, but something must be done and quick.
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Denrace
Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.
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Posted - 2007.04.13 10:28:00 -
[143]
Was a good fight, props to KIA - however the lag when my gang went back to dock was horrible...for about 2 jumps either way.
It was as if 300 players were fighting, let alone 60~...
Damn lag.
Den ________________________________________
Holder of 21 Hobo Points. See my bio for info |
Denrace
Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.
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Posted - 2007.04.13 10:31:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Denrace on 13/04/2007 10:27:49
Originally by: Sniser i dont know how many people will not cancel his account if the lag is not fixed in the nexts few months. There isnt anything more worse on an online game than be killed without a chance to defend himself
Lost an Armageddon in the "RKK Capyard" battle. Stared at the words "jumping" for 45 minutes, only to see my insurance money flash in my wallet shortly after. Checked my killmail - a VEXOR!! WTF!??!
I petitioned and they told me their logs "showed nothing unusual" occured.
Bizarre, considering they probably had about 500 similar petitions that very night from just those players involved.
Its disgusting. ________________________________________
Holder of 21 Hobo Points. See my bio for info |
Lucita Thoron
Minmatar ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.13 10:55:00 -
[145]
Originally by: BlackPrince Edited by: BlackPrince on 11/04/2007 21:59:33 PvP has been much been reduced to who's lag is the least unbearable. Kind of pointless if you ask me.
Walking around in station isn't going to make anything more enjoyable for me, or for those of us who play for PvP. Maybe CCP should look at fixing current problems before adding more variables to the equation.
Well said.
"In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies."
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.13 11:18:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Viqer Fell on 13/04/2007 11:15:42 I think what I'd like to see is a formal and honest comment from a Senior Developer on how CCP view the current state of the game in both hardware and software terms focussing on performance.
It's getting to the point where I'm almost tempted to suggest that they should be apologising for the poor state things have got into but maybe that's being a little too optimistic.
Now i know you'll most likely want to come back to us and talk about how yes you know its a problem but you have xyz optimisations on way to hopefully fix it but step back from that comment a second.
Let us hear about why the removal of the bookmarks hasn't improved matters, about how the overview seems to be causing some serious issues for a lot of people, how the client itself seems to freeze up even on very high end spec machines for minutes at a time or until they are rebooted.
I think it is important that we are given some indication of how much of a problem you see lag as in the game at the moment? Is it a) more important than new content? b) less important than fixing other known issues (that may or may not have an impact on some of the lag) c) a fact of life now and that without millions of pounds of new hardware will have to be considered just part of the game although we're continuing to reduce it as much as possible just don't expect any miracles soon.
I just want to know where we stand tbh. I look at other MMO's and can see why I love EvE so much and can justify all the money I've spent on EvE from e-on to store stuff to the CCG to the number of accounts i have. Then I look at EvE now and I wonder how long i can keep up my entusiasm to play when the game is becoming such a huge victim of its success.
I am not suggesting that you stop new content or the web cell or get staff from the eve store working on lag or anything else as I know that these people shouldnt be let loose on the coding but what I would like to see is that in addition to the tens and tens of staff you employed to design new content and shiny gfx that you have employed a solid amount of pure programmers to fix the massive issues that plague some of the main aspects of the game in its current format.
Click here to visit our site
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.13 12:19:00 -
[147]
Open source the EVE client. It'll never happen but a man can dream :)
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Eye of God X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.04.13 12:29:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Beetle Boy Edited by: Beetle Boy on 12/04/2007 23:25:53 Dev's stop doing all these stupid "Walking In Stations" and "Flying on Planet Surface" and start Re-writing this damm code. You though the server would not brake this 29k barrier but now is almost 29k a night. We see when new server hardware installed we find a great improvement but then you add stuff the game doesn't really need. Whats the point of playing a game that wouldn't lag with 40v40 but lags now. I might aswell cancel my subscription and play that bloody world of warcraft. The Fleet System still create tons of laggggg. POS spammed system are crap to try to jump to. The way i see it the old guys of EvE will get tired of lag with a same fleet battle and will leave. Just either improve the servers or re-write the code and get a decent game engine rather than we one atm which probely hasn't changed since the start of the game
Oh for christ sake, stop commenting on things you dont know. Essentially all of CCP already are working on fixing the lag...the development of walking in stations and so on, are done by totally different departments.
I'm sorry to hear that you're lagging so bad, but seriously - If you dont know EXACTLY whats going on behind the scenes and whats causing the lag, don't fecking tell CCP to rewrite their code, no offence ...just don't.
Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Eye of God X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.04.13 12:45:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 13/04/2007 12:41:30
Originally by: Viqer Fell Edited by: Viqer Fell on 13/04/2007 11:15:42 I think what I'd like to see is a formal and honest comment from a Senior Developer on how CCP view the current state of the game in both hardware and software terms focussing on performance.
Why does have to he have to be senior? And why do you think getting a comment is going to fix the problem any faster? Because unless I am mistaken, a comment not only has no practical value, it also diverts attention away from actual real work.
Originally by: Viqer Fell
It's getting to the point where I'm almost tempted to suggest that they should be apologising for the poor state things have got into but maybe that's being a little too optimistic.
Apologise for what? Just about everytime there has been something like this and it's been on their end, they've come out and said "Hey guys listen...so and so is causing the server to lag, we're working on it, sorry about any inconvinience".
You're treating them like they're stuck up and never talk to you..NEWSFLASH, no other company talks as much to their playerbase as CCP does - You're spoiled thats your problem. Just give it time.
Originally by: Viqer Fell
Now i know you'll most likely want to come back to us and talk about how yes you know its a problem but you have xyz optimisations on way to hopefully fix it but step back from that comment a second.
Why? Do you have a better idea?..No really..think about that for a second. Theres how many people employed with CCP?..and all of them have no clue what they're doing?
Originally by: Viqer Fell
I think it is important that we are given some indication of how much of a problem you see lag as in the game at the moment? Is it a) more important than new content? b) less important than fixing other known issues (that may or may not have an impact on some of the lag) c) a fact of life now and that without millions of pounds of new hardware will have to be considered just part of the game although we're continuing to reduce it as much as possible just don't expect any miracles soon.
Why is that important? See I think I already know the answer, and if I have to pick between your choices, it's c), and I'm betting you if you start being honest with yourself, you knew that answer too. So...why is it important?
Originally by: Viqer Fell
I just want to know where we stand tbh. I look at other MMO's and can see why I love EvE so much and can justify all the money I've spent on EvE from e-on to store stuff to the CCG to the number of accounts i have. Then I look at EvE now and I wonder how long i can keep up my entusiasm to play when the game is becoming such a huge victim of its success.
That sucks I'm sorry to hear you're loosing your enthusiasm, however that's no justification for having things your way, and dare I say - Thank god for that. No offence intended.
Originally by: Viqer Fell
I am not suggesting that you stop new content or the web cell or get staff from the eve store working on lag or anything else as I know that these people shouldnt be let loose on the coding but what I would like to see is that in addition to the tens and tens of staff you employed to design new content and shiny gfx that you have employed a solid amount of pure programmers to fix the massive issues that plague some of the main aspects of the game in its current format.
They do have lots of people hired specifically to do just that, they've said that several times, but people like you keep bringing it up like it's some sort of revelation they haven't thought of.
Sorry, but just a little informed commenting, less rabble rabble, please.
Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
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Red Rumurder
5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.13 12:56:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Red Rumurder on 13/04/2007 12:53:12 since my run ins with lag in the marginis campaign and others afterwards, i have moved out of 0.0, avoid fleet battles and pvp, now i only run missions cause I know there its lag free. i am not going to leave cause i have faith in ccp that they will fix it eventually. who knows when that could be. maybe they'll let us cross bread and bang each other out while we're walking around in station and create new races. its the new invention that ccp hasn't told you about. i only found out cause I found one of the hamsters who ran away. there were rumors from him of awful things being done to him by the devs so i can't in good conscience send him back. until they decide to change their ways i'll do what i can to liberate the hamsters, if only they were treated nicely
/SIGNED
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.13 13:01:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Cadela Fria stuff
Say as you will, but I have 40+ people telling me that they no longer want to play.......
SOMETHING has to be done, its getting worse and worse, not better. Improvements would be handy, but communication and assurance would go a long way to quell the rising fears that this game is going down the pan fast.
You act all high n mighty, like you know something we all don't, but 1000s of pilots are complaining, many many are quitting.... its a matter that should be addressed, not swept under the carpet by condescending and tbh down right disrespectful posts like yours.
AND to rub salt into the wound. No re imbursements are happening for us or our enemies in these engagements, its a fkin joke tbh.
KIA EVE Home
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ShuPac the3rd
Amarr Obsidian Inc. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.13 13:05:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Twoside spot on Eddz, lag was just insane. Even with everything imaginable turned off.....turning off all electrical equipment in my appartment and castrated my cat - 3 frames per minute.
OMG You made me laugh there mate!!
btw i was in that battle too. When we jumped back from Jachanu to Kithaled I got one frame in which I saw a lot of war targets in overview! I did tried to lock down first target called and while the picture was frozen I even pressed F1, F2, F3, F4...etc..I'm not sure if I shot something, I'm not sure even if anything happened but I'm 100% positive that next frame showed me in a pod floating helplessly!!!
There is no lag in EVE!!! ----- There's no lag in EVE!! |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Eye of God X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.04.13 13:06:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 13/04/2007 13:03:15
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Cadela Fria stuff
Say as you will, but I have 40+ people telling me that they no longer want to play.......
SOMETHING has to be done, its getting worse and worse, not better. Improvements would be handy, but communication and assurance would go a long way to quell the rising fears that this game is going down the pan fast.
You act all high n mighty, like you know something we all don't, but 1000s of pilots are complaining, many many are quitting.... its a matter that should be addressed, not swept under the carpet by condescending and tbh down right disrespectful posts like yours.
AND to rub salt into the wound. No re imbursements are happening for us or our enemies in these engagements, its a fkin joke tbh.
I don't act like I know something, I DO know something, and it's very simple public information posted by CCP themselves. As far as my post being disrespectful? Oh give me a sodding break, you're the one in CCP's face with no regards to the actual people in that company, like they're a bunch of evil daemons whos only purpose is to deceive you and take your money.
Talk about the pot in the friggin' kettle. I mean no disrespect with my post and underlined that a few times aswell, and if you can't deal with the reality that while I may agree with you that the lag is annoying and needs to be fixed, I don't agree with your attitude.
Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
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Apothiz
Amarr Demonic Retribution Pure.
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Posted - 2007.04.13 13:10:00 -
[154]
It was indeed laggy, I think there were more numbers than mentioned however. Anyways I really enjoyed the fight :)
Most of the Lag happened towards the end, maybe its all the wrecks
Anways GF and bring on the next one
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.13 13:19:00 -
[155]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 Judging by the recent 700 pilot cap in the Alliance/Coalition battle, I suspect this is towards the upper limit of what a single node can handle.
What you have to bear in mind is that the load generated depends as much on what you're doing, as how many are in the system. 700 people crammed into one grid generates masses more load than 700 people spread out between a number of gates, station exteriors, station interiors etc. It's a simple squared relationship: one grid = 700*700=490,000. split between 10 grids: 70*70*10=49,000 Hence, a 700-man fleet fight is going to kill a node that could handle jita just fine.
It's a slightly different issue if you're looking at the lagging mission hubs. The load issues there are around the spawning, maintenance and despawning of NPC's and other mission stuff. There's a map mode that lets you see the 24-hour average of NPC's killed. If you look at that, you'll see the insane number of NPC's that are got through in those systems. If you assume the profile over the day matches the online player count profile, you easily get more than 1 NPC spawning every second in those systems. And that's not to mention the structures, asteriods, clouds and other objects that exist in mission areas, the creation and destruction of mission BM's, spawning of mission items and rewards, applying and removing deadspace restrictions etc.
Originally by: FireFoxx80 Taking that into account, our maximum limit of 700 pilots on a dedicated node, drops to 230 pilots when that node carries 20 systems. No wonder nodes crash on 100v100 pilots, but 10v10 is still shocking.
Not so shocking when you follow through more of the logic you've already used. If there's 20 systems per node, and a fleet fight is causing lag in one of those systems, then anything in those other 19 systems is going to lag as though the fleet fight is going on there, even if there's only you in that system.
Originally by: ARGH69 there is supposed to be WELL OVER 2x the server power from this new blade server cluster compared to the older TQ cluster. i was under the impression that EVE is safe from lag until we hit 45k peak player limit.
2x the power does not mean 2x the number of players supported. See the squared relationship above.
One of the fundamental principles of a cluster is that it will only achieve it's maximum performance if the load is spread evenly over all nodes. As long as load is predictable, and isn't too big in any one system, the load-balancer can move systems around each DT to make this the case. However, when the load is not predictable (e.g. a 100v100 fight comes to a system where local has never been over 5 for the whole of the week), or where the load in a single system exceeds the capability of a node (e.g. massive blob fleets, Jita, Motsu etc), then performance issues will occur regardless of the overall capacity of the cluster.
There is also a more complicated reason why increasing server performance may yield little or no observable improvement in lag. To see this, you need to view the server as a queue process, lag as the waiting time. Requests come in, and are served in turn. When the number of requests is very much below the capacity of the server, there is little or no queue, hence no lag. As the number of requests approaches capacity, the queue length increases, manifesting in observable lag. When you're at this stage, improving server capacity will have a demonstrable effect on waiting times.
However, that is not the situation in most lag problems in Eve. In Eve, most of the stubborn lag promlems are in the range where requests are greater than the server capacity. Simple queuing theory says that in that situation the queue will grow indefinitely (which in eve terms results in a node crash when the queue exceeds a given length). However, that doesn't happen, because eve is not the simple case. In eve, an increase in waiting time will result in a decrease in requests. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.13 13:20:00 -
[156]
This is fairly simple to understand...after all, if you're stuck in lag for 5 minutes, you can't be making the other requests (module activations, warping etc) that you would have made if you had not been stuck.
Therefore, we introduce the idea of desired requests, and actual requests. Desired requests are what would happen if there was no lag (i.e. no queue waiting time). Actual requests are what actually happens, and reflects the desired requests less the ones that weren't made due to waiting times. This also accounts for people that would go to a place if it wasn't laggy, as a server improvement that makes that place not laggy will mean they move in, increasing demand and lag again.
The longer the waiting time, the more desired requests that will not occur. So eventually you will get to a level of waiting time that reduces the number of actual requests down to the capacity of the server. This will give you a steady state with the server running at max, a significant waiting time, and lots of pent-up demand.
If, from that position, you increase server capacity, it does not necessarily follow that waiting time will be reduced by the same proportion, if at all. Assuming the server capacity is still below the desired requests level, then you'll still end up in a position where waiting time is used to reduce the number of actual requests. At this point it's important to bear in mind that it's waiting time that's important, not the number of requests in the queue, so the speed of the server is irrelevant to the waiting time needed to achieve a given reduction in demand.
The only thing improving the speed of the server will change is the reduction in activity required (i.e. desired requests - server capacity). So lets look at examples.
If we assume a linear demand reduction of 5% per minute of wait. Say the base server capacity is 1000, and we improve it to be 1250 (25% performance boost). Lets look at a number of desired demand situations:
Desired demand = 1500 Base Reduction Required = 33% Base Lag = 6.6 minutes Upgraded Reduction Required = 17% Upgraded Lag = 3.3 minutes (50% improvement in lag for 25% server improvement)
Desired demand = 2000 Base Reduction Required = 50% Base Lag = 10 minutes Upgraded reduction required = 37.5% Upgraded Lag = 7.5 minutes (25% improvement for 25% server improvement)
Desired demand = 3000 Base Reduction Required = 67% Base Lag = 13.4 minutes Upgraded reduction required = 58% Upgraded Lag = 11.7 minutes (13% improvement for 25% server improvement)
This demonstrates that where desired demand is very much greater than server capacity, it is entirely possible for a significant increase in server performance to result in a much lesser reduction in lag. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.13 13:53:00 -
[157]
The only problem with your wall of text is that we're talking about previously playable battles being unplayable now.
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roadrage639
Caldari Velites Praefectus
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Posted - 2007.04.13 14:38:00 -
[158]
I lost a CNR and all its setup due to lag. Cost me about 2 bil.. I peititoned it and CCP tell me to get lost.. I am thinking about cancelling my subscriptions as the GM's and the designers clearly don't have a dam clue. ---------------- If You Can't Kill It, Slap It! The Man Who Runs Will Fight Again
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Niraven
Obsidian Inc. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.13 14:41:00 -
[159]
Originally by: INZi with eve getting more and more developed your computer specs has to evolve with the game. i bet that 75% of lag reported here is due to your own computer specs beeing outdated.
ccp wants the game to develop graphiclly as well as functionlly (?) and im sure u guys wants that as well or do you still wanna be back to 3 yos again?
my "lag" decreased _alot_ when i upgraded my computer, and i meen _alot_
all moaning is sick
Unlikely. I was in the fight the OP mentioned and experienced the exact same thing, 1-2 minutes lock up on jump in, than some frames dropping in every now and than and only after a few minutes a framerate that allows to actually do and see something. I was running a brand new PC, windows XP installation less than a day old (and yes fully updated, tweaked and what not) 8800gs gfx, ee6600 cpu to give some specifics, i had 160+ fps in station and about 120 fps in front of it with a fleet of 20 pilots. I quote from teamspeak: "Primary is in armor, I just got a frame." Not fun.
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Niewinter
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.13 17:53:00 -
[160]
Its been unimaginable. like what eddz said. 0 fps for a bout 1 min then 2 fps every further min. What on earth is going on here ? ive had fleet battles 100 vs 200 and its been a walk in the park compared to that "fight" lol :(
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.13 20:07:00 -
[161]
Cadela,
whilst I understand what you are saying you have to realise that the lag that we are currently experiencing goes beyond normal occasional lag into the bounds of making the game completely unplayable.
Unless I am wrong there has not been an in depth commentary on the state of the server hardware and client/server software for some time so yes whilst CCP are a very open company ( i never once said they weren't) I do think the current problem requires attention beyond the usual (we're looking at it response).
Why a senior Dev? because I feel that the issue is serious enough to warrant attention from someone fairly high up in CCP tbh I couldnt care less who replies as long as someone does, I just would like to see my concerns and the concerns of the community taken somewhat seriously.
I will not call you a fanboi etc as I think that demeans the points you make but I must say I wholeheartedly disagree that assuming a company is fixing the lag is the same as getting a formal comment from them on the problem. I've assumed that every time they told me they were fixing lag over last 43-44 months that they were, and tbh they were trying, what im asking for now is a confirmation that they see it as a serious game disrupting problem and are trying a bit harder. I don't think getting someone senior to comment on the issue is taking away that person from fixing the problem unless you're suggesting the problem can be fixed in the 30 minutes they can spend addressing the communities problem.
Of course I think they will say c) in my previous example, it was a trite comment but the underlying point is that a reply is better than nothing.
Don't get me wrong if i didnt love the game I wouldnt have spent a crap load of my real life inside of it. And yes we're talking multiple accounts, well over 30-40 hours a week for coming up to 4 years now. I love eve, i am just getting really down about how much its own success is causing it issues.
Click here to visit our site
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Citizen X
Domination.
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Posted - 2007.04.13 20:15:00 -
[162]
/signed
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Trebor Locke
Gallente Round Table Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.13 20:24:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Trebor Locke on 13/04/2007 20:21:25 Watch me get flamed for this but, I've never had lag. Not in combat, not when flying in to a system, none, nada, zippo. Maybe a little client side lag when opening up the market or my wallet but, thats it.
I get 35fps on average and things run just fine. I think I had server side lag once in Jita but, that was a few months ago.
I used to have a similar problem a long time ago with the client freezing up for a few seconds while entering a system. Now that I have 1.5GB worth of RAM, that doesn't happen anymore.
Something tells me that either people are lying, have largely bad internet connections, or bad computers. The only real lag I get is when my University's internet connection wants to go crazy.
EDIT: Also note, when 50+ people enter a system at the same time with 50 people wanting to gank those 50, a lot of server side lag can be created from the amount of data the server needs to give. See why CCP wants to get rid of blob combat? It is what is now causing lag. -------------- Round Table Enterprises
Your friendly heavy production corporation. |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.13 20:28:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Cadela Fria ....stuff.... Just give it time. ...stuff....
We've given it time. 4 years actualy.
Every time there is a thread like this since the very launch of the game, everyone with half a clue knows that we're never-ever going have the game we've been "promised" unless: -They rewrite the net code to get dynamic load balancing -Tweak the godawful client (I realy don't even want to start ranting on this )
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JonLuc McPew
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Posted - 2007.04.13 20:31:00 -
[165]
I have a MUCH better system than I had 6 months ago. Back then a 50 vs 50 man fight was enjoyable. Now a 50 v 50 is asking for it, bigtime, its just not playable. Period. Something flaky has been done, something very bad for Fleet combat. Couple all this with the fact that new people join every day and what do you have? Unplayable Fleet Combat, controversial caps put on systems in dispute, more and more ****ed off players. Either do something radical to repair it, pull some magic bullet out of your ass or SHARD the damn thing. I don't really care at this point. I am pretty much sick and tired of CCP's behavior anyway. The day some genre competition appears is the day EVE begins to die. *shrugs*
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.13 20:42:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Trebor Locke Watch me get flamed for this but, I've never had lag. Not in combat, not when flying in to a system, none, nada, zippo. Maybe a little client side lag when opening up the market or my wallet but, thats it.
Maybe you're not playin the game like we are
Originally by: Trebor Locke Something tells me that either people are lying, have largely bad internet connections, or bad computers. The only real lag I get is when my University's internet connection wants to go crazy.
You should realy see my PC... costing about 5.000euros. Honestly, you should ask yourself what kind of PC "should" be needed to play eve... With the poor graphics it has compared to latest games, a 3year old computer should be zoooooming fine. We actualy don't see any of the graphics since we're all seeing a bunch of white flashing red squares buzzing around. To suggest that (even though I do it), to play the game you should have no sound, no gfx, no chat windows, no..... IT'S THE YEAR 2007 ffs... playing a game with no sound and Spectrum ZX graphics just doesn't seem right
Originally by: Trebor Locke EDIT: Also note, when 50+ people enter a system at the same time with 50 people wanting to gank those 50, a lot of server side lag can be created from the amount of data the server needs to give. See why CCP wants to get rid of blob combat? It is what is now causing lag.
You seem to need some glasses to read what we're saying better.... at one point around the year of our lord 2005 and beyond, we could very easily have 100vs100 battles, on my (at the time) meager athlon 1700+ with a mere 512megs of ram...
I'm through for now tbh... you a dev alt or something? Can you make my fighters mwd back to my carrier after 1 year and a half since they were introduced?
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Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.04.13 21:07:00 -
[167]
There's a specific "your game locks up and you are hung" lag that seems to occur at a certain activity level.
It seems to happen most when entering grid with a large group (or when they are entering yours). Combat is definitely a factor, probably due to the increased burden of drones and gang updates.
At that point you're not just slow, you're utterly hung. You may or may not ever recover from it.
Any time you experience this it gives you a decided 'why the f* do I play this game?' because it just took all your skill, planning, and invested work and tossed it into the trash, then spit on you for good measure. It doesn't matter who you are, you simply just lost your ship and pod, have a nice day.
That needs to go away. There is no bug or feature I consider more important.
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RedFall
Irreligion
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Posted - 2007.04.13 21:09:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Mistress Suffering There's a specific "your game locks up and you are hung" lag that seems to occur at a certain activity level
Yeah, I hear that all the time.
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AntiReal
Caldari Cohortes Vigilum Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.13 21:20:00 -
[169]
Edited by: AntiReal on 13/04/2007 21:22:16
Latest Report , Amarr 50v50 or so
We started fighting at Sarum Prime gate in Amarr, hostiles used some snipers we kept warping in and out trying to get them, and they tried get us. All worked fine some time, just minimal lag even if there was wrecks and 'lots' players at same grid.
We moved our force out from gate, just few remained. Their snipers come range, and ceptors started going towards them. Few our ships popped at gate, then 1 ceptor got to snipers and i warped towards them (Rapier cloaked at same grid saw everything) before gang got order.
Immidietly when i pushed warp to member, everyhing froze up. after while screen updates, i saw i was uncloaked but overview showed hostiles at 200km still.
And same time our gang was droping out of warp and basicly everyone started crying lagging out, and client totaly frozen up. there was like 1 frame / minute and this happened basicly to 'all' even people in Amarr local was crying about lag.
I just waited like 5min, and it kept same nothing changed. then i tried ctrl Q to close client but nothing. I kept pushing it few minutes but no. Alt F4 ? shutted only Ventrilo, Irc clients etc. but not EvE. Task Manager, ok Finaly i could kill EvE task. (others said same thing, so it just wasnt me. and i know 1 just updated hes machine to lates top specs)
Logging back, fine, entering game fine, warping back to gate fine, onlining cloak fine. Fropping out of warp and BAM 1 lag strikes again while there is just 10-20 random person on gate and maybe 5-10 wrecks. managed to warp out to safe, but still got random spikes. After while i warped back to gate at range, and BAM lag strike with full force again. and there is even less stuf left an locals still *****ing about lag.
Warping around system after that and thigns ran preaty smooth everywhere else, but still random lag spikes (whole game freezing). This realy killed all joy from fight, i dont even care anymore how we or they did fight but CCP realy won that, and im not going to fight anymore in empire with gangs. GG CCP, maybe you should make this strategic game only and showing only strategic display not any 3d graphics, that way would might get some fighting done without totaly lagging out and waiting when computer will explode to our face.
over and out
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.13 21:49:00 -
[170]
Originally by: James Duar The only problem with your wall of text is that we're talking about previously playable battles being unplayable now.
I see just as many "X vs X lags too much" threads today as I did 2 years ago. Overall, I see no indication that the situation for any given value of X is worse today than it has been over the last 2 years of Eve. The variations between individuals perceptions of it is explained far more by their luck on the nodes as by any actual long-term variation.
I would also point out that back when I started to play, the thought that you could get 700 in one system at all, regardless of it lagging, would have been a pipe-dream.
Originally by: Viqer Fell what im asking for now is a confirmation that they see it as a serious game disrupting problem and are trying a bit harder.
There is the whole "Need for Speed" initiative and focus, that has been a big theme in Oveur's blogs for the last few months. The whole Factional Warfare element that was planned for Revelations 2 has basically been put back in storage to make room for Need for Speed.
The Revelations 1.4 patch featured changes to over 100 missions which changed NPC makeup, arrangement of other in-space items and use of triggers to reduce the load they place on the server.
The problem they have is that there is currently no hardware solution that will provide the required per-node power, and while re-coding the server to span a system across nodes is apparently on the drawing board, that sort of re-tool is many, many months work.
But they're not just sitting there using technical limitations as an excuse. What we've heard of Revelations 2 so far suggests that there will be fundamental game design changes to reduce the need for huge blobs in the first place. This won't just help the fleet fights, but the dozens of other systems that get lagged out through sharing a node with a fleet fight.
Originally by: ElCoCo Every time there is a thread like this since the very launch of the game, everyone with half a clue knows that we're never-ever going have the game we've been "promised"
That's because the demands of the player base are always growing to outstrip the capabilities of the system. Back in the day, people were complaining cause a 400-man fleet fight would crash a node. They upgraded and optimised. Now we're seeing alliances bringing 1000+ to a battle.
And of course, one thing that has definitely improved since then are hub systems and the handling of dying nodes. I can remember a period when the nodes serving the hub systems would die regularly at weekends, and 8pm Sunday became a fairly regular unscheduled downtime due to the mass hub node deaths taking down the whole server. Now we get a situation where Valar kills 6 nodes trying to keep a fleet fight going and the rest of the server copes just fine.
Originally by: ElCoCo -They rewrite the net code to get dynamic load balancing
There is a reason they aren't keen on doing this. The technical problems with it are mind-boggling.
Originally by: ElCoCo Tweak the godawful client (I realy don't even want to start ranting on this
The majority of the client's CPU usage is the graphics rendering engine. Bear in mind that there are still some software shaders in there (Eve was using vertex and pixel shaders back in the days before graphics cards supported them). But that's why an entire new graphics engine is in development. But again, stuff like that takes months, if not years to develop. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.13 22:43:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Matthew That's because the demands of the player base are always growing to outstrip the capabilities of the system. Back in the day, people were complaining cause a 400-man fleet fight would crash a node. They upgraded and optimised. Now we're seeing alliances bringing 1000+ to a battle.
That's why dynamic load balancing is the only way to go for the future of Eve. Don't forget that what instigated this particular thread were two fights of some 50-60 total pilots involved.
With the current funky net code, the nodepower is supposedly distributed based on average "action" taking place in systems. Result? After a while, some systems get reinforced and if by tough chance, a battle takes place in an adjacent system (very very typical scenario) that's on another heavily loaded node it all goes...Pete Tong.
If you think it's a nightmare to rewrite the code (understandable), I think in the long run, it's going to cost much much more to keep adding servers (but ofcourse have no facts to support this)
Remember that what we actualy experienced here is related, but not what we're used to as far as lag is concerned. Client freezes completely for actual minutes, not delay in module activation etc to which we're used to.
I cannot stress enough how dissappointed I am. I left the game because I got tired of POS warfare and crapola laggy alliance fights. Came back 8months later, merc corp, smaller but fun stuff.... this is ruining it. If I'm going to be affraid to even do some 30vs30 then it's all over for me and actualy for most of my corp
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Xanja
2H Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.13 22:45:00 -
[172]
/signed
The game has come be pretty much unbearable for pretty much ... anything really.
Forget the new fleet system, it will get you killed for sure even in small engagements.
Walking in Stations, EVE-Voice??? WTF??? CCP, before you can rake it in big, you must make the game playable or you end up like many of the other have-been MMO's!
Surely the devs are aware of this, is this a management (in-)decicion to focus on all that "extra revenue" crap?
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Bohoba
Caldari Dragons United Pure.
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Posted - 2007.04.13 22:52:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 13/04/2007 13:10:26 Edited by: Cadela Fria on 13/04/2007 13:03:15
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Cadela Fria stuff
Say as you will, but I have 40+ people telling me that they no longer want to play.......
SOMETHING has to be done, its getting worse and worse, not better. Improvements would be handy, but communication and assurance would go a long way to quell the rising fears that this game is going down the pan fast.
You act all high n mighty, like you know something we all don't, but 1000s of pilots are complaining, many many are quitting.... its a matter that should be addressed, not swept under the carpet by condescending and tbh down right disrespectful posts like yours.
AND to rub salt into the wound. No re imbursements are happening for us or our enemies in these engagements, its a fkin joke tbh.
I don't act like I know something, I DO know something, and it's very simple public information posted by CCP themselves. As far as my post being disrespectful? Oh give me a sodding break, you're the one in CCP's face with no regards to the actual people in that company, like they're a bunch of evil daemons whos only purpose is to deceive you and take your money.
Talk about the pot in the friggin' kettle. I mean no disrespect with my post and underlined that a few times aswell, and if you can't deal with the reality that while I may agree with you that the lag is annoying and needs to be fixed, I don't agree with your attitude - Then sorry, thats your own problem.
Quote: like they're a bunch of evil daemons whos only purpose is to deceive you and take your money.
unfortunately in todays world that is exactly the corporate thinking $$ at all cost it has gotten to be a sad world
Get Into the Game it makes it fun for all |
Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.13 22:59:00 -
[174]
Originally by: ElCoCo With the current funky net code, the nodepower is supposedly distributed based on average "action" taking place in systems. Result? After a while, some systems get reinforced and if by tough chance, a battle takes place in an adjacent system (very very typical scenario) that's on another heavily loaded node it all goes...Pete Tong.
The load balancer does also have some "headroom" code in it, afaik. Meaning that systems that are likely to see a variable load (i.e. 0.0 systems next to the 0.0 system that's been heavily reinforced due to battles there all week), will be put on a node with a lot of systems that very rarely see high load. The theory being that any one of them may see a high load, but it's unlikely two of them will at once. Systems that have a very stable load will be stacked up on a node and given less headroom. The point of the huge increase in number of nodes a while back was to give enough "headroom" nodes for this sort of thing to work with.
Originally by: ElCoCo If you think it's a nightmare to rewrite the code (understandable), I think in the long run, it's going to cost much much more to keep adding servers (but ofcourse have no facts to support this)
Well, there's really two ways to do it. The easier way is to simply "jump" the entire system to another node. However, this would mean effectively pausing the entire system, transferring it, then starting it up again. Everyone in-system would go through a jump-style reloading, completely unexpectedly, in the middle of a fight. Messy.
The trickier way is to try and live-move the system. The new node would effectively try and mirror the old one until the new one was ready, then players would be seamlessly handed over, then the old node closed. The trouble with that process is that it generates a huge amount of cross-node traffic during the start&sync process. which isn't going to help matters if your node is already on the point of dying.
Of course, none of that will help huge fleet battles unless you also make it that different grids in the system can be on different nodes, because the huge battles will bust even a dedicated node. The trouble with that is that every warp will potentially have to do the same as a jump does now.
Originally by: ElCoCo Remember that what we actualy experienced here is related, but not what we're used to as far as lag is concerned. Client freezes completely for actual minutes, not delay in module activation etc to which we're used to.
Ahh sorry, I hadn't fully appreciated that, but I have just experienced the "lock up" lag that you described. Looks to me like someone's introduced an evil blocking call where there shouldn't be one. logfiles in BR's may help the devs spot what's locking things up. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Razor Jaxx
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.04.13 23:04:00 -
[175]
Originally by: AntiReal Edited by: AntiReal on 13/04/2007 21:22:16
Latest Report , Amarr 50v50 or so
We started fighting at Sarum Prime gate in Amarr, hostiles used some snipers we kept warping in and out trying to get them, and they tried get us. All worked fine some time, just minimal lag even if there was wrecks and 'lots' players at same grid.
We moved our force out from gate, just few remained. Their snipers come range, and ceptors started going towards them. Few our ships popped at gate, then 1 ceptor got to snipers and i warped towards them (Rapier cloaked at same grid saw everything) before gang got order.
Immidietly when i pushed warp to member, everyhing froze up. after while screen updates, i saw i was uncloaked but overview showed hostiles at 200km still.
And same time our gang was droping out of warp and basicly everyone started crying lagging out, and client totaly frozen up. there was like 1 frame / minute and this happened basicly to 'all' even people in Amarr local was crying about lag.
I just waited like 5min, and it kept same nothing changed. then i tried ctrl Q to close client but nothing. I kept pushing it few minutes but no. Alt F4 ? shutted only Ventrilo, Irc clients etc. but not EvE. Task Manager, ok Finaly i could kill EvE task. (others said same thing, so it just wasnt me. and i know 1 just updated hes machine to lates top specs)
Logging back, fine, entering game fine, warping back to gate fine, onlining cloak fine. Fropping out of warp and BAM 1 lag strikes again while there is just 10-20 random person on gate and maybe 5-10 wrecks. managed to warp out to safe, but still got random spikes. After while i warped back to gate at range, and BAM lag strike with full force again. and there is even less stuf left an locals still *****ing about lag.
Warping around system after that and thigns ran preaty smooth everywhere else, but still random lag spikes (whole game freezing). This realy killed all joy from fight, i dont even care anymore how we or they did fight but CCP realy won that, and im not going to fight anymore in empire with gangs. GG CCP, maybe you should make this strategic game only and showing only strategic display not any 3d graphics, that way would might get some fighting done without totaly lagging out and waiting when computer will explode to our face.
over and out
I concur. The numbers aren't absolutely correct (35 in our gang), but that's not really the issue here. I experienced the very same problems AntiReal did (I had to Ctrl+Alt+Del to kill the EvE process eventually), and getting 1 frame every 3 or 5 seconds isn't really my cup of tea.
Yes I had taken all necessary precautions - zoomed out, no effects, no sound, minimized overview, minimized gang window, minimized chat, no logging, mail blink off, etc etc etc. Good thing I was aligned and the FC managed to warp us out, or I would've been toast, with zero chance of reimbursement through petition ("Our logs show nothing").
This is really getting asinine. Players are going to extreme length to prepare for epic fights and then? Lag. Such a downer. Not to mention I've pretty much forgotten what sound a howitzer makes, or what a sensor booster effect looks like, or how pleasant it is to sort your overview in mid-fight and still be able to lock targets with some semblance of quickness and fluidity.
All in all, sort this mess out and keep the further candy for later, please. And if it's a client-related issue, please let us know what are the true hardware/OS reqs that will allow for normal, fluid, unhindered play. Thank you.
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.13 23:28:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 13/04/2007 23:25:38 I just spent 3+ hours getting into a fight to only lock 2 targets and watch a frame per 30 seconds - minute slide show. What a ******* waste of time.
Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.14 02:08:00 -
[177]
This really really needs a dev comment, or better, a fix - now.
From the posts I've seen, this seems be to lag that manifests when you warp in short range on a gang of ships. The battle I saw it in was where we were doing exactly that - we had a WTZ solution on the snipers, warp in loading short range but then everyone was lagged to hell even once grid loaded the client was just locked up.
It's too bad we can get a large number of people together to test out where this is happening, because it definitely seems like a new bug in the client, rather then any type of serverside lag.
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.14 08:02:00 -
[178]
Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 14/04/2007 08:00:25 Matthew, yes you are right about the numbers I used. I completely forgot about grids when I made my argument.
I guess a solution would be to not necessarily have n systems per node; but in fact to have m grids per node/process. You'd have to change the code substantially to keep with this idea, but it allows for far more flexibility.
Edit: I am certain at one point the devs were investigating the possibility of pre-loading the target grid (and models, etc) whilst in warp. Though I've no idea how the warp mechanics work; whether you warp immediately from grid A to grid D, or whether you pass through grids B and C in the process. The answer to this would certainly explain whether we can or cannot have mid-warp loading of target grids, and potential mid-warp interdiction.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.14 10:37:00 -
[179]
I don't actually have anything to contribute. However experience has shown that when you keep something in General for long enough, CCP acts somewhat sooner rather then later.
Now, normally with lag I wouldn't do this. However since this seems to be almost certainly a new client side bug, I am.
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Ortu Konsinni
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.14 11:39:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Matthew logfiles in BR's may help the devs spot what's locking things up.
Yes... except no. Unless the GMs have access to different logs than BRs, but GMs claim their logs show zilch.
Originally by: Matthew Looks to me like someone's introduced an evil blocking call where there shouldn't be one.
I'm becoming increasingly convinced that it is a glitch in the overview. How client-sided or server-sided that is, I wouldn't know; I'm assuming it's in the EVE client itself. The only thing so far to make me doubt that assessment is that people in the same system had comparable lag even if they weren't in the grid. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships! |
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.14 11:39:00 -
[181]
Here's the previous week of same issue, This lag is absurd. And the week before that, Fix Fleet Lag
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Nadjer
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Posted - 2007.04.14 12:00:00 -
[182]
I'm fairly new to the game and haven't experienced any large scale pvp yet and all this talk about lag and people quitting over it is making me want to quit before i've even started.
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Spacian
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Posted - 2007.04.14 12:43:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Nadjer I'm fairly new to the game and haven't experienced any large scale pvp yet and all this talk about lag and people quitting over it is making me want to quit before i've even started.
I think it's more because of the fact that even if some CCP guy chimed in and acknowledged that the lag is an issue, it would take them years to fix it. Heck, it took CCP 10 months to change the trainable skill icons.
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F9OOEX
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Posted - 2007.04.14 12:56:00 -
[184]
As someone as pointed out before...Eve looks good on paper, the simple fact is Lag > Eve > Lag .... Until things improve, I'm using my ISK to buy GCs ,I can't be bothered paying $14.95 a month for this game anymore. Eve was my 1st MMORPG and it will be my last... To many new PC games coming out to bother that would provide better playability and very little lag. I can only assume the lag with get worse with new features are added.
I feel like where talking to ourself's here, preaching to the choir... this thread and many other threads like this you never hear CCP say anything. I maybe only 1 person, a small fish in a great big pond where all thats told to me is move to another system. But considering how wide spread the lag is, its simply unacceptable.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.04.14 13:21:00 -
[185]
It seems pretty obvious to me that Eve is suffering from multiple issues. The server lag has always been there, it has just varied by degrees of severity. I do think CCP's efforts have improved some issues with server lag. Jita for example, is still a laggy system, but it's average low end has improved.
The client on the other hand, has been getting more and more funky. I really think the seamless map brought all sorts of evil to the client that still has yet to be sorted. I know there have been many graphics and fps issues that came with kali, and many of those remain.
I think some of these issues are new since a month or so. For instance, the issue with freeze up or stutter on NPC missions where tons of NPC agro you at once, I noticed for the first time in the last month or so. It seems to be an effect buffering issue since it doesn't happen until a bunch of rats start shooting at you.
Something has changed lately and has piled on to the rest of the niggling issues. I really think we are nearing the threshold for common player tolerance. CCP needs to at least make a "here's the deal" statement.
------------------- Say What? |
Stray Spider
Gallente Magnetar Ltd Dark Synergy
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Posted - 2007.04.14 13:26:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Stray Spider on 14/04/2007 13:22:44 i bet CCP never thought there would be any bigger issue than the credibility issue (regarding t20) . i think LAG is the greatest enemy of EVE. Dronebugs, balancing, etc. seem tiny in comparison
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.14 14:48:00 -
[187]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 14/04/2007 08:00:25 Matthew, yes you are right about the numbers I used. I completely forgot about grids when I made my argument.
I guess a solution would be to not necessarily have n systems per node; but in fact to have m grids per node/process. You'd have to change the code substantially to keep with this idea, but it allows for far more flexibility.
They have mentioned the possibility of reducing the granularity of the process to be able to put different grids on different nodes. But it's always been in the context of a "when all else fails" measure, and something that would have a massive lead time on it. It's something they also avoided in the past because of the "stuck while jumping" issues, which would have become "stuck while warping" if you had grids on different nodes. There seem to be much less (non-lag-related) "stuck while jumping" problems than there used to be, so this may not be as much of a problem anymore.
Of course, that still wouldn't help the situation when your entire fleet wants to attack the same target simultaneously, as you'll still be cramming everyone into a single grid.
Originally by: FireFoxx80 Edit: I am certain at one point the devs were investigating the possibility of pre-loading the target grid (and models, etc) whilst in warp. Though I've no idea how the warp mechanics work; whether you warp immediately from grid A to grid D, or whether you pass through grids B and C in the process. The answer to this would certainly explain whether we can or cannot have mid-warp loading of target grids, and potential mid-warp interdiction.
I also remember them saying that. However, given that most of the benefits of pre-loading would probably be to ease client-side graphics related issues (loading models, textures etc), it could be that they put it back as a feature of the new graphics engine, rather than trying to re-tool an engine they were planning to drop anyway.
Incidentally, that's probably the reason why pretty much any non-game-breaking graphics issue won't be being addressed right now.
Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Yes... except no. Unless the GMs have access to different logs than BRs, but GMs claim their logs show zilch.
The logs you produce with the logserver are different to the logs the GM's can see. The GM's can see server logs, those the logserver produce are client logs. If your client is doing something insane, the server logs are likely to show nothing, but the client logs could be crammed full of error spam.
Still, I wouldn't expect submitting logserver files to help in a reimbursement petition, they can be faked if you're clever enough. But submitting them as a BR will at least help to get the issue sorted.
And before you suggest that the client should report logs to the server, bear in mind that 1 evening of play for me with the logserver enabled generated about 200Mb of logserver file, and that wasn't even doing anything paricularly serious.
Originally by: Spacian I think it's more because of the fact that even if some CCP guy chimed in and acknowledged that the lag is an issue, it would take them years to fix it. Heck, it took CCP 10 months to change the trainable skill icons.
Changing icons took time because it's a low priority change. Fixing lag takes time because it requires serious code and gameplay design changes. Those things take a long time to do regardless of how high a priority it is. At least if you want to make sure you don't wreck more than you fix.
Originally by: Roy Batty68 For instance, the issue with freeze up or stutter on NPC missions where tons of NPC agro you at once, I noticed for the first time in the last month or so.
Hmm, this is an interesting theory that might hold water. In both this situation and the PvP fleet fight, when the lag occurs is also when you'd expect a lot of locking to be going on. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.14 19:03:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: ElCoCo If you think it's a nightmare to rewrite the code (understandable), I think in the long run, it's going to cost much much more to keep adding servers (but ofcourse have no facts to support this)
The trickier way is to try and live-move the system. The new node would effectively try and mirror the old one until the new one was ready, then players would be seamlessly handed over, then the old node closed. The trouble with that process is that it generates a huge amount of cross-node traffic during the start&sync process. which isn't going to help matters if your node is already on the point of dying.
Of course, none of that will help huge fleet battles unless you also make it that different grids in the system can be on different nodes, because the huge battles will bust even a dedicated node. The trouble with that is that every warp will potentially have to do the same as a jump does now.
Originally by: ElCoCo Remember that what we actualy experienced here is related, but not what we're used to as far as lag is concerned. Client freezes completely for actual minutes, not delay in module activation etc to which we're used to.
Ahh sorry, I hadn't fully appreciated that, but I have just experienced the "lock up" lag that you described. Looks to me like someone's introduced an evil blocking call where there shouldn't be one. logfiles in BR's may help the devs spot what's locking things up.
and why not instead do this when the server is dying, just be a bit more foresighted and if One system have 200 - 300 guys in local or more but they arent fighting yet. Just give them a single node because if there are in one single system many guys is because its preparing a big huge fight.
CCP guys could have some special nodes with ultra huge hardware used only for those big fleet battles and the other nodes just for usually things
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Beetle Boy
Minmatar Obsidian Inc. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.14 21:11:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Roy Batty68 It seems pretty obvious to me that Eve is suffering from multiple issues. The server lag has always been there, it has just varied by degrees of severity. I do think CCP's efforts have improved some issues with server lag. Jita for example, is still a laggy system, but it's average low end has improved.
The client on the other hand, has been getting more and more funky. I really think the seamless map brought all sorts of evil to the client that still has yet to be sorted. I know there have been many graphics and fps issues that came with kali, and many of those remain.
I think some of these issues are new since a month or so. For instance, the issue with freeze up or stutter on NPC missions where tons of NPC agro you at once, I noticed for the first time in the last month or so. It seems to be an effect buffering issue since it doesn't happen until a bunch of rats start shooting at you.
Something has changed lately and has piled on to the rest of the niggling issues. I really think we are nearing the threshold for common player tolerance. CCP needs to at least make a "here's the deal" statement.
Don't start about jita why does ccp carry on like this stop jita have 700 people in on a night and have item sold at differnet places its stupid just make it minmatar good sold in minmatar space. caldari in caldari space and so on just small things could help |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.04.14 22:13:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Beetle Boy
Don't start about jita why does ccp carry on like this stop jita have 700 people in on a night and have item sold at differnet places its stupid just make it minmatar good sold in minmatar space. caldari in caldari space and so on just small things could help
Wasn't trying to justify Jita getting special attention, was simply noting that CCP made an effort towards addressing server lag and it seemed to help in the case of Jita.
Besides, lets not get lost in whats what. The latest problems seem to be stemming from the client somehow.
It would be nice to get a technical "Yo!" from CCP to give us hints on how we might help them track down the problems.
------------------- Say What? |
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Just Smith
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.04.14 22:25:00 -
[191]
ccp would never admit to they been a problem in the frist place, as it might cost them a few new players which are checking out the forums before they start and it would not change the fact that they is a problem.
All you can do is hope that the next patch fixs it and not makes it worse.
though they are some people that try to make lag to effect others but ccp will not take any action against them for the same reason as it would be to declare that theys a problem.
I just holding out hope for the new client when every that comes out.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.15 00:19:00 -
[192]
Here goes. The other threads died and I'm still bored of not being able to play Eve.
For those that insist that lag and Tranquility are to blame here, think again. Have a quick read of Molden Heath is the most laggiest region EVER? (Single page thread).
At the bottom I described a brief overview of the decoupling that both the client and server perform.
With said decoupling, framerate cannot directly be impacted by lag.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.15 02:29:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Solbright With said decoupling, framerate cannot directly be impacted by lag.
So how do you explain what we're experiencing? I have a pretty good idea what's happening.
And it has nothing to do with the (by definition) frames per second our PC can generate. The client is having hickups.
My guess?
Node can't handle stuff. But sends/receives data anyway at low rate. Client tries to keep up with the action, but with the low rate data comes and goes, it gets stuck on a catch-up loop and while it's at it, everything is frozen. The little video that was posted here isn't the actual terrible problem we're describing. That's normal network lag since you can move the camera etc as usual, but the system hasn't loaded up. Fraps actualy shuts down (!) when our problem occurs.
So in essence, it's not our PC's not being capable of drawing the little squares fast enough. Rhe client is just frozen and the rendering just happens on the first available moment where the client has caught up, even for just a split second, giving the impression of low fps.
So it's two things to blame simultaneously... node isn't up to the task and client has faulty code. As simple as that.
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Mister Zero
Synergy Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.15 04:00:00 -
[194]
It's pointless. EVE is and has been for a very long time, a solo (or small group) effort. Even then, getting ganked by a couple of pirates in a moderately crowded system is pointless. You can't fight back, even if you try, no telling if your mods/guns will actually be on.
EVE is f'd and all the promises from CCP are nothing but BS to milk more money out of subscribers.
CCP can rot in hell - or Iceland, I don't care.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.15 04:07:00 -
[195]
Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: Solbright With said decoupling, framerate cannot directly be impacted by lag.
So how do you explain what we're experiencing? I have a pretty good idea what's happening.
And it has nothing to do with the (by definition) frames per second our PC can generate. The client is having hickups.
I presume you mean the typical framerate that Eve produces? Hmm, true and false. Eve, like most if not all games these days, uses a rendering method that produces variable framerate. But generally agreed, the framerate should not be varying hugely like it is so we need to look for good reasons ...
Quote: My guess?
Node can't handle stuff. But sends/receives data anyway at low rate. Client tries to keep up with the action, but with the low rate data comes and goes, it gets stuck on a catch-up loop and while it's at it, everything is frozen.
Something in that logic don't fit. If the client receives some info then why not show it on display? Are you saying there is nothing at all arriving for a minute at a time? Or are you saying that it won't display the new info because it knows the info is out of date?
Quote: The little video that was posted here isn't the actual terrible problem we're describing. That's normal network lag since you can move the camera etc as usual, but the system hasn't loaded up. Fraps actualy shuts down (!) when our problem occurs.
Agreed.
Quote: So in essence, it's not our PC's not being capable of drawing the little squares fast enough. Rhe client is just frozen and the rendering just happens on the first available moment where the client has caught up, even for just a split second, giving the impression of low fps.
This might be the key. The client software is doing more than just rendering. We might want to think the renderer is the biggest code path but maybe that's not so, in the case of Eve. Dunno.
One thing is for sure, object count and new object arrival are biggies. And if you watch network traffic, say at a POS with plenty to look at, there is very little to no traffic at all and yet FPS really does suck, but not for lack of a good graphics card. Doesn't leave much headroom for times of action. You can see I'm interested in more than just the extremes. Client performance is affecting way more than just the big battles but clearly you lot are suffering the most.
Funnily enough, stutter hits when lag goes away. That's the indirect relationship they have. One theory I have is the optimisations for Tranquility are having a real impact now. No lag - massive stutter. Time to get the client codebase optimised too!
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.15 05:43:00 -
[196]
What's happened is, someone has hacked in some routine that just waits until it receives some type of normally fast update, rather then queuing it and then checking each frame if it's completed.
Something is getting done on a frame by frame basis that really shouldn't be, and it's a recent development. I'll bet it's overview related going off my experiences and those of others.
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Twoside
Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.15 06:17:00 -
[197]
Whats also pretty amusing is that when you bring it to CCP, you get different answers. From 'no evidence' to 'you're right!' to 'oh no, there really is no evidence' from one single petition. Pointing them to this thread asking to reply, so perhaps we can understand or even help fixing the problems, is also pointless (unless they post with an alt, claiming it's all our fault secretly, who knows?).
In short, we're all imagining things and we really arent dissatisfied ;) |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.04.15 06:23:00 -
[198]
Why be so completely silent on this issue? Surely they've noticed this thread by now.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - "We need to invent a new Clue Super Weapon... Something that distributes clue on a never before seen level." -Cpt Psycho |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.15 07:22:00 -
[199]
Well, just remember guys - these forums are completely public viewable by people not subscribed to EVE. Those people are potential customers to CCP if they're viewing these forums. So, the longer we keep issues like this on the front page of General Discussion, the more of a PR liability they become and CCP addresses them sooner rather then never.
And that is why forum whining is more effective then bug reports.
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mr bighelmet
EnTech Pax Familia
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Posted - 2007.04.15 08:04:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Twoside Whats also pretty amusing is that when you bring it to CCP, you get different answers. From 'no evidence' to 'you're right!' to 'oh no, there really is no evidence' from one single petition. Pointing them to this thread asking to reply, so perhaps we can understand or even help fixing the problems, is also pointless (unless they post with an alt, claiming it's all our fault secretly, who knows?).
In short, we're all imagining things and we really arent dissatisfied ;)
GM are not Devs, they know how the game play they don't really know how it's work so for most part there guess is about as good as your. I agree with what some people have said, there was a client code that was added in keli that make the client slow down. It could be the seamless map or it could be something else. One of my accounts is having problem with lag almost all the time, even when i docked the manues work slowly. My other accounts work much better and they both run on the same computer with the same network connection it does not metter what account log in first.
If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest |
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.15 10:02:00 -
[201]
If you want a little more to get worked up over here's the "recommended" spec for a quality gaming experience in Eve: --== snip ==-- Recommended system configuration for running EVE-Online OS: Windows« System 2000 SP2 / XP CPU: Intel Pentium« IV 1.5 GHz or AMD XP 1500+ MHz RAM: 1024 MB HD space: 6.0 GB Video: 128 MB GeForce 6200 class card or higher Network: Broadband Internet connection Drivers: DirectX« 9.0c (included) and latest video drivers --== snip ==--
Dunno about you lot, but I'd dearly love that to be so. Then we could get on with beating the crap out of each other ... :>
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.04.15 10:50:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Oh for christ sake, stop commenting on things you dont know. Essentially all of CCP already are working on fixing the lag...
How do you know? If you think you do, how many developers are actively working on fixing the lag? I've followed the game's progress very closely in the past 18 months or so (being a very active player) and I cannot imagine more than 2-3 people working on it since the result is so terribly bad (there's no other way to honestly put it).
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.04.15 10:51:00 -
[203]
Originally by: James Duar What's happened is, someone has hacked in some routine that just waits until it receives some type of normally fast update, rather then queuing it and then checking each frame if it's completed.
This is what I suspect as well. Things have been acting like there's a hardcoded wait state that just shouldn't be there. Makes me wonder if CCP have been doing peer reviews on their code.
Another interesting tidbit I found in the Ramdisk thread: Linkage
Originally by: Klikiss
Check out Process Monitor. It can show you ever single disk access going on, which program is doing it, and what file operations/filenames.
With it you can see that even with EvE set to only download icons on stuff you click on, it'll still download portraits for people and cache stuff for the browser when you are just flying along in warp not clicking anything. Sometimes a few per second. No idea why it is downloading those or what causes it. Yay for ramdisks.
I think I might just buy a copy of RamDisk Plus to have long-term, it's pretty nice/simple.
If Eve is indeed doing things like this unbidden, I could see this causing a lot of lag when warping into a blobbed grid.
Has anyone who has experienced these freezes also tried the ramdisk trick and seen an improvement in regards to the freezes?
------------------- Say What? |
Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.04.15 10:54:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
I don't act like I know something, I DO know something, and it's very simple public information posted by CCP themselves.
That's called marketing and PR. You have to take it with a grain of salt, only extremely naive people believe stuff like that without a second thought, esp. when it comes from a company that has such bold claims (epic fleet battles blah blah) to defend.
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.04.15 10:58:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
If Eve is indeed doing things like this unbidden, I could see this causing a lot of lag when warping into a blobbed grid.
Has anyone who has experienced these freezes also tried the ramdisk trick and seen an improvement in regards to the freezes?
People have claimed various degrees of success with a ramdisk, but it won't fix the issue with downloading stuff at warp-in. I'd like to find out more about why this downloading is happening, does the server initiate it on its own or does the client request it after determining that its local copies are nonexistant or out of date? In the latter case, it might be possible to avoid it by creating a bunch of dummy portraits and setting their time stamps to a time in the future for example.
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Sahne MuhMuh
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Posted - 2007.04.15 11:24:00 -
[206]
Who cares about your 20vs20 fleet battles?
All the server power is needed to maintain jita, the mission runner hubs und the bob homeregions.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.04.15 12:01:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Sahne MuhMuh Who cares about your 20vs20 fleet battles?
All the server power is needed to maintain jita, the mission runner hubs und the bob homeregions.
I read that as "homoregions". --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
Viqer Fell
Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.15 18:07:00 -
[208]
A lot of my pilots are losing enthusiasm to play, a few are talking about trying removing all their settings such sa the depth buffer as a semi fix.
Overall though I don't want to have to play on reduced settings. My pc is high spec enough and my ISP conn good enough to run pretty much anything i can throw at it at the highest settings. Why then do i have to play eve with the most important bits switched off
effects = off :(
turrets = off :(
sun occlusion = off :(
I would like to see the matter addressed in this thread by CCP and thus can we continue to keep the comments clean and lets keep the issue raised until something is done by CCP to respond to it.
Click here to visit our site
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Mister Zero
Synergy Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.16 01:54:00 -
[209]
CCP would have everyone believe that:
a; lag is due to network issues between you and EVE servers b; your system is not able to handle the graphics, etc. c; there's a DirectX conflict or that your drivers are bad/old.
Truth is, most system are MORE than enough to handle EVE's demands.
The issue is purely on CCP's end and their servers/nodes not being able to effectively manage the load.
CCP need to stop lying to its customers - 'persistent world' has become 'persistently lagged world'.
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Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.04.16 02:07:00 -
[210]
we all love lag just live with it.
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BlackPrince
Amarr Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.16 04:47:00 -
[211]
Recommended system configuration for running EVE-Online OS: Windows« System 2000 SP2 / XP CPU: Intel Pentium« IV 1.5 GHz or AMD XP 1500+ MHz RAM: 1024 MB HD space: 6.0 GB Video: 128 MB GeForce 6200 class card or higher Network: Broadband Internet connection Drivers: DirectX« 9.0c (included) and latest video drivers --== snip ==--
There is no lag, we're all just using 56k connections on old exposed copper wire in the rain on 486s. Obviously if we upgraded to the recommended system specs we wouldn't experience any problems.
Right, Mathew? *snicker* -=BlackPrince=- "Fair fights are for suckers."
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.16 07:06:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Mister Zero CCP would have everyone believe that:
a; lag is due to network issues between you and EVE servers b; your system is not able to handle the graphics, etc. c; there's a DirectX conflict or that your drivers are bad/old.
Trolling? I'll bite.
Quote: Truth is, most system are MORE than enough to handle EVE's demands.
"are MORE" => "SHOULD be more" There is no PC that is fast enough for the Eve client.
Quote: The issue is purely on CCP's end and their servers/nodes not being able to effectively manage the load.
While that can be true, it's not what causes stutter.
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.16 08:23:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Sniser and why not instead do this when the server is dying, just be a bit more foresighted and if One system have 200 - 300 guys in local or more but they arent fighting yet. Just give them a single node because if there are in one single system many guys is because its preparing a big huge fight.
Well, the trick is knowing if they are going to stay there to fight, or are just forming up to go somewhere else. If the code is too sensitive, it'll end up re-mapping every system on the pipe as your blob travels. That's not going to be pretty.
Then you have to allow for systems where 200-300 is a normal gathering and would not indicate a fleet fight, or indeed unusual load.
And also bear in mind that there are not an unlimited number of nodes available, so it really isn't feasible to give a dedicated node to every system that might play host to a fight.
Originally by: Sniser CCP guys could have some special nodes with ultra huge hardware used only for those big fleet battles and the other nodes just for usually things
Every node is a special ultra huge node. There simply aren't any more powerful blades available.
Originally by: Solbright Something in that logic don't fit. If the client receives some info then why not show it on display? Are you saying there is nothing at all arriving for a minute at a time? Or are you saying that it won't display the new info because it knows the info is out of date?
It's called a Blocking Call. When one of these happens in the client code, the client will not do anything else until that call is resolved. If the call requires a server response, and that response is slow in coming, then you will not get any more frames rendered until the server responds and the entire call is completed.
They are evil, are occasionally necessary, but should really be avoided at all costs. It seems a recent patch introduced one where there wasn't one before.
For example, if "who's locking me" has become a blocking call on the client, and you get locked by 100 people simultaneously, the server may lag a bit sending you the full list of who's locking you. If it wasn't a blocking call, that would just mean you'd see some of the locking indicators on the overview slightly late. But with it being a blocking call, you won't get anything rendered until the full lock list comes in.
Originally by: BlackPrince There is no lag, we're all just using 56k connections on old exposed copper wire in the rain on 486s. Obviously if we upgraded to the recommended system specs we wouldn't experience any problems.
Right, Mathew? *snicker*
I do hope that's not aimed at me. I have never denied that there is lag. I have never blamed lag on your PC or your internet connection. What I have done is explain why lag happens in systems you wouldn't expect it to, what I suspect is happening differently to normal in this specific case, and why the "obvious" fixes are not in fact as quick and easy as some people make out. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.04.16 08:57:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Matthew
Every node is a special ultra huge node. There simply aren't any more powerful blades available.
That made me laugh. First of all, blades aren't the most powerful hardware you can get, second the stuff IBM sold to CCP back then is already outdated by their current Intel based offerings, third even back then their Power(tm) based blades were probably suited better to the workload (yes, I know that CCP loves x86+Microsoft).
Quote:
They are evil, are occasionally necessary, but should really be avoided at all costs. It seems a recent patch introduced one where there wasn't one before.
The client has always been full of those ... System scanner, "show info" etc. etc. all could freeze the client indefinitely.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.04.16 09:05:00 -
[215]
Quote: That made me laugh. First of all, blades aren't the most powerful hardware you can get, second the stuff IBM sold to CCP back then is already outdated by their current Intel based offerings, third even back then their Power(tm) based blades were probably suited better to the workload (yes, I know that CCP loves x86+Microsoft).
a) Didn't they just get those? As in a month or two ago? You can't expect them to buy something like that every month.
b) Didn't they have to ask the military for permission to export them? They sound powerful enough to me.
c) It seems fairly obvious to me that all of this lag is not due to the quality of the hardware.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - "We need to invent a new Clue Super Weapon... Something that distributes clue on a never before seen level." -Cpt Psycho |
Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.04.16 09:33:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Frug
b) Didn't they have to ask the military for permission to export them? They sound powerful enough to me. I'm surprised someone is complaining about that, of all things.
That's probably a PR stunt since you can buy those things all over the world.
Quote:
c) It seems fairly obvious to me that all of this lag is not due to the quality of the hardware on either end.
Yes, it's due to sloppy programming, but the claim I was refuting was that the hardware was the best you could get, which it isn't. It's good for "processing power per m¦" but certainly not for "best affordable processing power".
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Amitabh Bachchan
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Posted - 2007.04.16 09:53:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Amitabh Bachchan on 16/04/2007 09:51:15 Lets be honest here. CCP really need to either optomise the client, or invest in supercomputers. Supercomputers tend to cost more than the annual turnover of CCP so I think we all know where the focus should be on then :)
Or just remove all these turret calculations etc etc so that the server is not bogged down calculating if the drone's optimal is enough to hit the traget hostile drones tranversal, taking ship and gang skills into account etc etc
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UndergrounD
Caldari Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks
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Posted - 2007.04.16 10:01:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: Sniser and why not instead do this when the server is dying, just be a bit more foresighted and if One system have 200 - 300 guys in local or more but they arent fighting yet. Just give them a single node because if there are in one single system many guys is because its preparing a big huge fight.
Well, the trick is knowing if they are going to stay there to fight, or are just forming up to go somewhere else. If the code is too sensitive, it'll end up re-mapping every system on the pipe as your blob travels. That's not going to be pretty.
Then you have to allow for systems where 200-300 is a normal gathering and would not indicate a fleet fight, or indeed unusual load.
And also bear in mind that there are not an unlimited number of nodes available, so it really isn't feasible to give a dedicated node to every system that might play host to a fight.
Originally by: Sniser CCP guys could have some special nodes with ultra huge hardware used only for those big fleet battles and the other nodes just for usually things
Every node is a special ultra huge node. There simply aren't any more powerful blades available.
Originally by: Solbright Something in that logic don't fit. If the client receives some info then why not show it on display? Are you saying there is nothing at all arriving for a minute at a time? Or are you saying that it won't display the new info because it knows the info is out of date?
It's called a Blocking Call. When one of these happens in the client code, the client will not do anything else until that call is resolved. If the call requires a server response, and that response is slow in coming, then you will not get any more frames rendered until the server responds and the entire call is completed.
They are evil, are occasionally necessary, but should really be avoided at all costs. It seems a recent patch introduced one where there wasn't one before.
For example, if "who's locking me" has become a blocking call on the client, and you get locked by 100 people simultaneously, the server may lag a bit sending you the full list of who's locking you. If it wasn't a blocking call, that would just mean you'd see some of the locking indicators on the overview slightly late. But with it being a blocking call, you won't get anything rendered until the full lock list comes in.
Originally by: BlackPrince There is no lag, we're all just using 56k connections on old exposed copper wire in the rain on 486s. Obviously if we upgraded to the recommended system specs we wouldn't experience any problems.
Right, Mathew? *snicker*
I do hope that's not aimed at me. I have never denied that there is lag. I have never blamed lag on your PC or your internet connection. What I have done is explain why lag happens in systems you wouldn't expect it to, what I suspect is happening differently to normal in this specific case, and why the "obvious" fixes are not in fact as quick and easy as some people make out.
Makes sense to me, thanks for explaining that in plain english. -----------------------------------------------
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.16 10:51:00 -
[219]
Cool, someone to butt heads with. Was feeling neglected by CCP...
Originally by: Matthew For example, if "who's locking me" has become a blocking call on the client, and you get locked by 100 people simultaneously, the server may lag a bit sending you the full list of who's locking you.
Won't even be the case internal to the client. Blocking against the server would be a really stupid action. It would entirely defeat the purpose of decoupling.
At any rate, it's clearly not blocking, from observation, because CPU usage doesn't fall to zero for those periods. Where CPU usage does drop-off a bit is when HDD accesses are occuring, so I'll agree that blocking calls are used for caching and the likes.
As for accidental blocking, not bloody likely. There will be untold layers of bloatware framework that the devs will be expected to utilise. Particularly for server interaction.
To rub some salt in here, the recent extreme cases are a "no lag" situatation according to server logs. I'd be inclined to accept atleast that much as being fact.
And actions like "who's locking me" just don't happen. Firstly, the client doesn't need to know such info to function. Secondly, such info will arrive in it's own good time, purely for displaying to the pilot. You can include all the little open menu and window stutters with this. There is no need for the client to block on this, and it won't be, the info will arrive for your viewing pleasure in due course. Mean while, rendering and user input continues.
What it will be doing is bogging down after the new packets have arrived, the client can't process the data quick enough without causing a stutter.
That's how bloated the client is.
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Flaming sambuka
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.16 10:55:00 -
[220]
Im totally getting ye OP, although it seems that it is only certain systems affected. A few days ago INFOD fought ED and battered them althought it, for me (and them) wasnt an enjoyable fight due to pretty much all of us having 1 fpm (not fps). Now this was in Skarkon? But yah, yesterday we had a fight with RIOT some place in 0.0 (gf btw) and there was hardly any lag. They had about the same numbers as the ED engagement and we had about the same too, they had carriers with fighters deployed too so i cant see it being fighters causing lag which has been suggested.
Anyway - CCP i know your rich gits so pull a fiver out and spend it on yarrdware and get this lag sorted.
My 0.23 isk.
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Gaius BaItar
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:08:00 -
[221]
I have a feeling that missions play a large part in raising the lag in empireÆs fights. Add 10 mission runners (every one of them spawning tens of NPCs) to 100 players in a system and you will certainly get lag. Suggestion: lower the number of NPC ships in missions and increase their strength.
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Caladarr
Caldari Thundercats
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:27:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Caladarr on 16/04/2007 11:29:18 I've also been a victim of the horrid lag monster recently and I think it's the Client which is the problem (or at least behaviour from the server causes problems in the client).
A few days ago I logged into EVE before DT and everything was fine. After DT, logged back in and started getting "freeze/pause" type lag. This happened when jumping through gates mostly, with a number of jumps ending in a warping/movement type graphic background with no overview or GUI loaded. I would re-log and found that I had been emergency warped. I also was unable to turn off modules after I had activated them (MWD for instance).
This went on for a while and I thought it had settled down... I joined a gang and we payed ED- a visit to see if FIX wanted to play. We stayed there for a bit then warped back to the gate to exit... we held there for a while (or so I thought).
At this point, my Client got completely "ignored" by the server... Everything looked fine, gang mates were sitting on the gate, client looked normal etc... In reality, the gang had jumped into the next system and was camping another gate with nothing happening... so even on TS I didn't think anything was wrong... then after 4-5 minutes, I get a rapid burst of activity on the screen, shield/armor/structure gone, a burst of updates in the chat windows etc... then the client froze again.
Admitting defeat, I closed the client and tried to logon again, but got stuck at the "setting up station" window... gave up in disgust and went to bed (sleep :P) got up the next day and still could not login. Petitioned it and got moved to another station which fixed the login problem... meanwhile I still had no ship (and had lost my pod).
I was killed and podded by a solo Rohk using 425mm T2's... I'm happy for him to get the kill but I was on the gate, no way he should have got me. Nothing showed in logs and combat log was completely empty! Re-imbursement was denied due to no proof... well It's hard to prove anything if the client simply doesn't recieve or process the data from server. heh.
All I can see of the "freeze" is in the chat logs.. here's the gang chat (I have edited and added "..." to replace edits)...
[ 2007.04.13 12:53:49 ] Retsej > ty mate [ 2007.04.13 12:54:13 ] Machiavelli7 > align to ... [ 2007.04.13 13:00:08 ] Machiavelli7 > wait on gate [ 2007.04.13 13:00:08 ] The GlaZee > ... [ 2007.04.13 13:00:08 ] Machiavelli7 > jump [ 2007.04.13 13:00:08 ] ZMasterz > yumpyump :) [ 2007.04.13 13:00:08 ] Kollgorholl > i'm not ... [ 2007.04.13 13:00:08 ] ZMasterz > watp to ... at optimal [ 2007.04.13 13:00:08 ] ZMasterz > k koll
I'm not worried about the loss at all but the lag situation is really out of hand. Before Revelations I used to take part in large fleet battles (200+) and the lag was present, but acceptable with sound, turret effects, all effects etc... turned off. Now it's simply unplayable for a lot of participants.
edit: fixed a typo
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Asuo
The Wild Hunt
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Posted - 2007.04.16 12:54:00 -
[223]
Its gotten so bad me and Derek have started baking cookies in prepration for the EVE-2 party. -----------------------------------------------
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.16 12:55:00 -
[224]
Here's my interpretation:
Originally by: Caladarr ... This happened when jumping through gates mostly, with a number of jumps ending in a warping/movement type graphic background with no overview or GUI loaded. I would re-log and found that I had been emergency warped. I also was unable to turn off modules after I had activated them (MWD for instance).
Common lag. Looks like you were having connection problems. Good idea to start ping'ing eve-online.com at such times and watch for fluctuations in the times.
Quote: At this point, my Client got completely "ignored" by the server... Everything looked fine, gang mates were sitting on the gate, client looked normal etc... In reality, the gang had jumped into the next system and was camping another gate with nothing happening... so even on TS I didn't think anything was wrong... then after 4-5 minutes, I get a rapid burst of activity on the screen, shield/armor/structure gone, a burst of updates in the chat windows etc... then the client froze again.
Lag followed by stutter then recovering then bombing out. Due to a big update arriving from server - ship loss and podding too quick for the client to process so goes bye-bye.
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Mister Zero
Synergy Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.16 14:04:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Solbright There is no PC that is fast enough for the Eve client.
Then you and everyone else here is a waterhead for paying for a game you cannot play.
Get a decade, bozo. Computers today have more than enough raw processing power to run EVE. Most gaming 'bottlenecks' occur in the graphics department and that is NOT the case with EVE.
In case you hadn't noticed, there's nothing on the screen, how can it be 'lagging' your computer?
The EVElag is caused by its server being unable to cope with the load. Period.
CCP know this but aren't about to come forward with it. Why do you think WoW uses instance dungeons? No amount of routine tweaking or hardware can currently keep up with server loads.
EVE's concept, while possible a few years ago, has outgrown its ability to deliver on promises.
Wake up. You and everyone else paying for this nonsense are being taken for a ride.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.16 14:11:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Mister Zero
Originally by: Solbright There is no PC that is fast enough for the Eve client.
Then you and everyone else here is a waterhead for paying for a game you cannot play.
Get a decade, bozo. Computers today have more than enough raw processing power to run EVE. Most gaming 'bottlenecks' occur in the graphics department and that is NOT the case with EVE.
In case you hadn't noticed, there's nothing on the screen, how can it be 'lagging' your computer?
The EVElag is caused by its server being unable to cope with the load. Period.
CCP know this but aren't about to come forward with it. Why do you think WoW uses instance dungeons? No amount of routine tweaking or hardware can currently keep up with server loads.
EVE's concept, while possible a few years ago, has outgrown its ability to deliver on promises.
Wake up. You and everyone else paying for this nonsense are being taken for a ride.
Actually the current fleet lag, which this thread was originally about, is being caused by the client doing something stupid on a frame by frame basis. Server lag is essentially when modules and actions are unresponsive, but framerates are unaffected.
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Flaming sambuka
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.16 14:13:00 -
[227]
Originally by: James Duar
Originally by: Mister Zero
Originally by: Solbright There is no PC that is fast enough for the Eve client.
Then you and everyone else here is a waterhead for paying for a game you cannot play.
Get a decade, bozo. Computers today have more than enough raw processing power to run EVE. Most gaming 'bottlenecks' occur in the graphics department and that is NOT the case with EVE.
In case you hadn't noticed, there's nothing on the screen, how can it be 'lagging' your computer?
The EVElag is caused by its server being unable to cope with the load. Period.
CCP know this but aren't about to come forward with it. Why do you think WoW uses instance dungeons? No amount of routine tweaking or hardware can currently keep up with server loads.
EVE's concept, while possible a few years ago, has outgrown its ability to deliver on promises.
Wake up. You and everyone else paying for this nonsense are being taken for a ride.
Actually the current fleet lag, which this thread was originally about, is being caused by the client doing something stupid on a frame by frame basis. Server lag is essentially when modules and actions are unresponsive, but framerates are unaffected.
So it's the code that is borked?
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Jonas Vance
Orion's Nebula Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.16 15:43:00 -
[228]
Whole thread
/signed
Everyone just hit Ctrl-Tab. Will fix all the client lag. Either that or Alt-F4 |
Viqer Fell
Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.16 17:06:00 -
[229]
It would appear that way yes sam.
This doesn't appear to be server side lag at all but more to do with the way the client freezes up for extensive amount of times but maybe the freeze up is due to something the client is asking the server to do, I do not know.
One way to simulate the effect is to simply have a fleet of maybe 20 ships of mixed types all jump through a gate in an average empire system, say add 10 people in local stations and travelling and a few mission runners. Assuming you all get through fine with no lag on the jump then have everyone stay cloaked. Then the FC warps the wing to a location. For maybe 2-3 seconds the client freezes up then suddenly off you go again and half of the fleet are already in warp. Now change circumstance and have the fleet jump into a fight and have the freeze last 90 secs..... 2 mins ......4 mins.....
The lag we are talking about here is exactly the same type of screen freeze but seems to go on and on....and on....and on....and on and then on some more and just when you think it's gone and your screen updates you are back watching a slide show again.
Click here to visit our site
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Aramark
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.16 19:54:00 -
[230]
"jumping................................................................................... ........................................................................................... ........................................................................................... ........................................................................................... ........................................................................................... ............................................................................................. ........................................................................................... ............................................................................................ ........................................................................................... ........................So you died? Well you have a Clone Grade XXXXX at XXXXXXX moon XXXXXX station. Enjoy your afterlife."
awesome
-------------------------------------------------------------- Aasia: |
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Shebee
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.04.16 21:00:00 -
[231]
I had no lag seeing a like 15 vs 15 battle or something.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.17 00:26:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Mister Zero
Originally by: Solbright There is no PC that is fast enough for the Eve client.
Then you and everyone else here is a waterhead for paying for a game you cannot play.
Agreed. Eve is really still in beta, not ready for the paying customer.
Quote: In case you hadn't noticed, there's nothing on the screen, how can it be 'lagging' your computer?
It's not nothing, the screen is frozen, nothing is when it's empty and you can still look around.
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Tractormech
Caldari Fortune's Fools
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Posted - 2007.04.17 01:35:00 -
[233]
This is really unnacceptable. Sorry to say but i think I'm done with eve for a while. I really enjoyed it for a near good year but its just to the point of being fed up. I'll be taking 4 other accounts with me aswell.
All the gameplay in the world doesn't make up for the sad joke that this game is right now.
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Mister Zero
Synergy Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.17 01:43:00 -
[234]
//signed.
If enough people act on it, maybe CCP will finally do something about it and we can return to a game we all *should* be enjoying.
The 'lag' monsters have been around for ages, well over 2 years, nothing's been done. In fact, CCP have only made the problem worse by their advertising blitz. Anyone notice the noob whordes lately? CCP fill their bank accounts while we fill the petition inbox.
FIX THE PROBLEMS ONCE AND FOR ALL, CCP!!!
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Phoebus Athenian
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.17 05:01:00 -
[235]
BP my pc is 4x of the game requirements... And as far as the connection, cable. There is no excuse, the game didn't run like this in the past...
---
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BlackPrince
Amarr Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.17 15:38:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Phoebus Athenian BP my pc is 4x of the game requirements... And as far as the connection, cable. There is no excuse, the game didn't run like this in the past...
I know PA, I was being facetious and using it to point out what a load of male bovine fecal matter it is.
My system surpassed the minimum specs when I first started playing, as my system has improved over the years, my playing experience has gone downhill. -=BlackPrince=- "Fair fights are for suckers."
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AproK
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Posted - 2007.04.17 20:23:00 -
[237]
/signed
Im already looking for another cool game, and when I find it, CCP can get **** from me. Sucks to be that I forgot to cancel my subscription, so that they charged me for another year.
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Mister Zero
Synergy Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:03:00 -
[238]
It seems obvious that no one at CCP in a position to do any real change is reading this or taking note.
EVE is crippled and it will take real change to fix it - not some lame patch or extended DT. Sure, expansions are cool, but only if they're playable! New content is pointless until the *serious* issues have been addressed in a real way.
Enough with the band-aids!!!
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:44:00 -
[239]
But guys! Freighters drop loot now! (actually that's a pretty decent change but WTH why don't they fix this damn client bug that's pretty much nuked fleet combat that used to be playable).
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.18 13:00:00 -
[240]
Use to be playable if you were lucky, now you have to be very very lucky.
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dor amwar
Occam's Razor Combine
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Posted - 2007.04.18 14:48:00 -
[241]
beside the 'need for speed' initiative, i have never heard ccp admit that there is a problem. for sure if you request a reimbursment due to a 1 fps battle loss your told that nothing was seen in the logs, nothing we can do, not our problem bla bla bla. so i can only assume that this is their short term tactic for reducing blobs.
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lles
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 14:54:00 -
[242]
They should ask some marketing employees how to get the job done,cause marketing seems to go well at ccp...
Sell a more and more crappy produkt, looks pretty tho..
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Kaylana Syi
The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.18 15:15:00 -
[243]
Lag is pretty crap atm for anything over 15 v 15. I've had one 50 v 50 fight in the past 3 months that was playable and that was vs Rise in RIT where the region is so big it must have multiple nodes running it.
I won't be quitting EVE over it tho but its fustrating as an FC. The gang system is the first problem, the way calculations are done on decloak. Why we can't be temporarily assigned gang bonuses like boosters for x amount of minutes is beyond me. Having to calculate gang bonuses after ever bloody jump in is retarded.
So yeh my solution is :
Join gang with squad commander pilot x is assigned bonus from squad commander for x amount of minutes like a booster. If the gang recieves a wing commander then pilot x is given another bonus injection that will stack like a booster on a booster. Rinse and repeat up the chain of command.
Then put a gang leader option to uplink with gang members to extend the bonus timers or recertify bonuses( like if a better bonus giver joins ).
But for heavens sake it needs to be fixed.
Team Minmatar
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.19 00:38:00 -
[244]
Just remember everyone that it's not lag that you are talking about here, momentary client lockups can not be generated by lag.
Instead of calling it client side lag, so as to avoid thinking it's related to lag, I've been calling it stutter.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.19 01:31:00 -
[245]
Also, and this one's especially for Mister Zero. Just because a program runs too slow, and in this case also freezes, doesn't mean that the hardware or config of said hardware is at fault. It can simply be badly written software which, obviously, should be cleaned up.
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Phoebus Athenian
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.19 02:53:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Solbright ...
Yeah its most likely client-side lag due to badly written code. Which, agreed, needs to be amended soon. But its still lag and experienced as such even if we call it something else... ---
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.19 03:55:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Phoebus Athenian But its still lag and experienced as such even if we call it something else...
Hmmm... Stutter and lag are two quite different beasts.
Lag has many reasons for occuring - from simple latency to various network problems to server processing interval, and many observable effects - from unresponsive commands to repeating or skipping actions to late or surprise events.
Stutter only has one reason - inattention resulting in badly coded program, and only one observable effect - momentary lockups.
Lag is also unavoidable where as stutter is entirely avoidable.
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ThunderGodThor
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.19 06:01:00 -
[248]
Originally by: ElCoCo
Node can't handle stuff. But sends/receives data anyway at low rate. Client tries to keep up with the action, but with the low rate data comes and goes, it gets stuck on a catch-up loop and while it's at it, everything is frozen. The little video that was posted here isn't the actual terrible problem we're describing. That's normal network lag since you can move the camera etc as usual, but the system hasn't loaded up. Fraps actualy shuts down (!) when our problem occurs.
So it's two things to blame simultaneously... node isn't up to the task and client has faulty code. As simple as that.
Elcoco when that used to happen we would LAG WARP.. cause the servers used to see it as a disconncet then it would catch back up eventually. When was the last time any one has lag warpped? Cause i havent for over what a year back during the end days of PA lag was so bad up there every gate u would LAG. So my question is did CCP disable it for the most part or completly.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.19 09:01:00 -
[249]
Originally by: ThunderGodThor So my question is did CCP disable it for the most part or completly.
It's the same function as logoff auto-warp except it'll be triggered internal to the server. It'll still exist. So what has changed?
The answer seems to me that the servers are no longer lagging enough to trigger it. In fact I'd guess the cluster is performing better than ever.
You can see where I'm leading with this. Less lag makes for more stutter. When stutter hits you it's individual to your client so the enemy has chance of free meal. It also mean your client is unable to issue a disconnect command so the auto-warp won't activate until you are logging back in.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.19 12:02:00 -
[250]
Stutter is entirely preventable. Completely, right down to no framerate variation at all. It's possible to lock framerate to a fixed figure - typically sync'd to vertical refresh.
Then we could get back to arguing about what cluster setups would be best performance for Eve. :)
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.19 22:58:00 -
[251]
Whatever semantics you argue about the fact is the client is still freezing up when it shouldn't. Call it stutter call it lag , dress it up in a bloody dress shave its legs and call it dame edna everage for all i care, it's still crapping on my gameplay when it never used to and i want ccp to recognise the problem and tell me how theyre trying to fix it please
Click here to visit our site
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.19 23:23:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Viqer Fell ... it's still crapping on my gameplay when it never used to and i want ccp to recognise the problem and tell me how theyre trying to fix it please
Exactly. Good to see this.
The reason why I'm getting picky is because there is so much anger at the supposed inability of CCP to fix the cluster but the cluster is working just fine. And then people start acussing CCP of lying about lag. That's just counter productive.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.20 06:06:00 -
[253]
The other part of what I'm up to is directing attention on the rather sorry state of stutter and the possibility of fixing it once and for all. This can be done - if the devs are willing.
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 07:29:00 -
[254]
Some of my last post may have been influenced by the large quantity of red wine i consumed after finally getting a completion date for my new house.
Apologies if it was phrased somewhat enthusiastically ;)
Click here to visit our site
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.20 08:34:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Matthew
Every node is a special ultra huge node. There simply aren't any more powerful blades available.
That made me laugh. First of all, blades aren't the most powerful hardware you can get, second the stuff IBM sold to CCP back then is already outdated by their current Intel based offerings, third even back then their Power(tm) based blades were probably suited better to the workload (yes, I know that CCP loves x86+Microsoft).
Sure, blades aren't the most powerful hardware around. But that isn't the only concern. Technically, BlueGene/L could run Eve wonderfully. But load the existing server software onto it and you're not going to be going anywhere fast. Could the software be recoded for it? Sure. Are you willing to wait a year for that to happen? I doubt it. It's also not really an economically viable solution.
At the time of the big server upgrade, CCP tested all the top-end blades available, and they picked the ones that ran their code the best (which afaik resulted in AMD nodes with an Intel DB cluster). While the Power based blades might be better for this type of work from a purely theoretical standpoint, that doesn't mean anything if that theoretical advantage is not realised in practical tests.
Computer hardware is outdated as soon as it goes out the factory gate anyway. If CCP started chasing every incremental new blade release, you'd end up with the server being a horrible mish-mash of different blades (can you say maintenance nightmare), not to mention the complications of load-balancing across those performance differences (which will likely vary with what type of load it is as much as how much there is of it). I would far rather see the proper, structured upgrade plans CCP actually pursue, rather than an ad-hoc bunging in of whichever blade is at the top of IBM's "new releases" list each month.
Originally by: Solbright At any rate, it's clearly not blocking, from observation, because CPU usage doesn't fall to zero for those periods.
I didn't mean it's blocking anything, and blocking doesn't necessarily mean that you're sitting there idle waiting. What I'm saying is that the rendering path in the client is being blocked by some other part of the client. For example, the incoming packet hander sees that the server has sent it a huge list of people that have just locked you. This list will need to be processed out of the incoming packet, into a cached list that the client is maintaining. But this cached list also needs to be read by the rendering process, to know who to draw nice flashing yellow boxes around. It is not unreasonable to think that maybe the render process is being blocked from accessing the list while the incoming packet handler is writing to it. It's not the best way to handle it, but that doesn't mean that's not what's happening.
You wouldn't see CPU usage drop hugely if this was the case, as nothing else other than that specific operation is being blocked. It's even possible that most of the render loop keeps going, but just times out at the bit that's blocked, drops the frame, and starts again.
Originally by: Solbright What it will be doing is bogging down after the new packets have arrived, the client can't process the data quick enough without causing a stutter.
Actually, that problem isn't about bloat, it's about what their machonet network handler was optimized for. It was optimised for lots of small packets, because that is the vast majority of traffic eve generates. The downside of these optimizations is that it tends to choke on very large packets. Hopefully this problem will be rectified by the new Slipstream system Oveur mentioned in his blog thread. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.20 10:44:00 -
[256]
Matthew: Congrats on doing some testing. Glad to have you on board.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.20 13:13:00 -
[257]
Now that I've got a little traction I'll pop my own bubble. The particular incident that started this thread clearly is more exceptional than common stutter.
It's hard to find a good reason why it is so much worse than Eve's norm yet still a rare event or maybe only happens in certain places. One idea that I keep thinking about is the old jpeg in the billboard bug. I haven't been in 0.0 for a while now but have been informed that billboards don't exist in 0.0 so another source has to be involved.
A bad texture maybe? If so then when would there be a rare texture usage at gates? Not likely to be the gate itself, there isn't very many types. Maybe a particular planet variant that is also visible from a gate? That just might be a good rare combo ...
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.21 04:03:00 -
[258]
Edited by: Solbright on 21/04/2007 04:03:56
That's interesting. Not in 0.0. Made an assumption there. Just went and checked it out, jumping from Jachanu into Sazre, nothing out of the usual even on this "recommended" spec'd machine.
It does however leave open the billboard option ...
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.21 07:50:00 -
[259]
Looking at some of the bug hunting reports, The beaten-with-the-ugly-stick-lag-monster thread, are making it look more like it's a general bahaviour now, rather than exceptional. Maybe I'm not so alone any more. :P
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.21 07:58:00 -
[260]
One thing that gnaws at me though, is that some fleet combat is not this bad according to other reports. Not that I would know, it's always been impossible on my setup.
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AproK
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Posted - 2007.04.21 18:04:00 -
[261]
Looking thru that topic you posted right now...
Looks like everytime its something with the overview / drones?
The problem I had with the 1fps lagshow was with suddenly getting 40 people on my overview.. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=506320
With that fight we lost around 25 ships while taking down 3 ships. Nuff said?
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.21 21:31:00 -
[262]
There's been drones in use without a major hiccup also, according to yet more reports. Gotta be something else.
Can you vouch for all your recent combat? Some big ones that didn't freeze up?
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DerArt1st
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Posted - 2007.04.21 22:09:00 -
[263]
Eve is going to be unplayable. Sometimes i think this doensn't deserve the title "game", i would prefer the term "diashow". If there is a fleetfight going on i often stuck with 1 fps and this is just not acceptable. Remove Fleetwar or fix it... but in the current state its just broken.
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AproK
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Posted - 2007.04.22 00:31:00 -
[264]
Our problem happend when the enemy suddenly uncloaked at the gate after they jumped through. Before that everything went fine with our little 25 pilot fleet.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.22 04:58:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Matthew Hopefully this problem will be rectified by the new Slipstream system Oveur mentioned in his blog thread.
*Rant mode on*
Being too hopeful, me thinks, given CCP's history with this issue.
Stutter has always killed gameplay and everyone has always complained about it. Although calling it lag may have been a bit confusing for the devs, surely they understood. Not to mention see it for themselves. It's not like stutter was a rare event that only a few setups encountered. It affects everything from clicking on window tabs right up to the bigest events!
*Rant mode off*
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Garrett Smith
ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.22 05:57:00 -
[266]
Yeah the lag is ****ing me off. Walking in stations? Who gives a damn!
WTS: Clue for CCP
Originally by: El Yatta they shouldnt have gotten involved in supercaps, because on the whole they are very dull, except for 2-3 people in the alliance who get to go "wheee, i cant be scrambled, pwn pwn". |
MightyGuy
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Posted - 2007.04.22 06:01:00 -
[267]
im seriously tired of the lag. please do somthing about it instead of adding lots of new content because your fanbase will die if you dont. you will get new people but they will quit because of all the bugs and game rating will go down the tube.
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VD ThatsNotRight
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Posted - 2007.04.22 06:19:00 -
[268]
http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?tab=av&q=eve+online+video&scope=all
i have to say.im a fan boy..but here we have a dev talking about 1000 ship fleet battle.and telling a bbc journo its possible..
this may have been posted before, but im too lazy to read the thread..all sounds very familiar
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Mister Zero
Synergy Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.22 09:29:00 -
[269]
Originally by: VD ThatsNotRight http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?tab=av&q=eve+online+video&scope=all
i have to say.im a fan boy..but here we have a dev talking about 1000 ship fleet battle.and telling a bbc journo its possible..
this may have been posted before, but im too lazy to read the thread..all sounds very familiar
Nice find. Here's a direct link to the WMP file:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news/video/81000/nb/81851_16x9_nb.asx
He mentions 1000 ship fleet battles twice, like it's common, or for the average player - when most of them lag out on fights of 3-4 ships.
What a load of CRAP.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.22 21:25:00 -
[270]
Edited by: Solbright on 22/04/2007 21:46:32
Can't help myself, just have to pick at it ...
Originally by: Matthew This list will need to be processed out of the incoming packet, into a cached list that the client is maintaining. But this cached list also needs to be read by the rendering process, to know who to draw nice flashing yellow boxes around. It is not unreasonable to think that maybe the render process is being blocked from accessing the list while the incoming packet handler is writing to it. It's not the best way to handle it, but that doesn't mean that's not what's happening.
Good try but doesn't quite add up with observation.
This cached list will be alot more. It'll be a world simulation on the client approximating the servers own larger simulation. From this you get complete decoupling which inturn removes any need for the rendering loop to ever block on anything server related.
One area where the renderer could have some improvement is with it's own caching. It is very much getting stuck fetching this stuff when it could just forget it until the material is available or use a little more RAM and preload everything from the HDD.
But, I'll come back to bloatware again. Generally the design of the client seems fine, just it's too slow. Maybe the packet handler is part of the problem. Dunno, doesn't really matter as it still equates to bloat if the client has to spend forever inserting such small amounts of info into it's simulation.
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Archamedez
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Posted - 2007.04.23 01:33:00 -
[271]
Have to agree with a lot of folks in this thread who cares about walking around in a station more interested in being able to play whats allready available with out any problems
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Highlord Nicolai
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Posted - 2007.04.23 05:39:00 -
[272]
Have the same problem, thought it was my machine, glade to see its not
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Audemed
Wraiths Reborn Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.23 21:37:00 -
[273]
/signed
I've got an alienware 9700 with a pair of 256MB 7900 cards, it's not my system. I used to be able to run a pair of clients no problem, now one runs decently and the other is lagged to hell. I've gotten into 5v5 fights where we can't move. I can't open my carrier's drone bay in space without nearly lagging out. Entering a plex/mission room freezes my computer for 20 seconds. Deploying recalling drones causes 2-3 second pauses.
Seriously, all I can say is WTF?!
I played this game for more than a year, spent time in 0.0 with 250 man fleet fights, lagged a bit sure, but it was playable! I've done POS sieges that have less lag than a freaking L4 mission nowadays.
If it needs to be done, rollback the most recent revelations patches, each one that's put in does more damage to the situation. Go back a bit to where it actually *worked* and then start over. Nerf priveteers whoo! Now people can die in the missions to rats from lag instead of at least dying to a player \o/
I'm not one to tell the devs what to do, as it *is* their game, but really, who gives a f*** about walking in stations right now? Y'all did something recently to mess this whole thing up to near unplayability with any small-moderate ammount of people, the fixing of that needs to take priority. ------ Currently stationed in Iraq, 190 days left to go!
PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.04.23 22:52:00 -
[274]
Bloated, unoptimized, buggy, conceptually absolete code. That's the only thing wrong with EVE. Both client-side and server-side. _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Nerogk Shorn
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:01:00 -
[275]
US central standard time This character.
My first note of lag was in Djimame. My corp and allies had a 10v20 battle or so at the gate. My lag was noticeable, but not horrible, probably around 5-10 fps, yet others in my group indicated that there was much worse lag on their part, with freezing and slide shows. So I ran into the system whose gate we were on, and when I returned after the battle, there were only about 7-10 people in local and around 20 wrecks. The lag then was aweful. I couldn't understand why my lag wasn't THAT bad during the battle, and afterwards with pretty much no action (like two others on the gate with me) I was getting around 2 fps. My friend also warped to the gate while I was there only to not be able to jump. He sat there trying to jump, at which a random dude jumped in and podded him. = /
On another note, I mission in Aring occaisionally, and I don't get lag often. Yet when I did one of the missions in the adjoining system Petidu, I got pretty bad lag. I don't think anyone was in the system at the time, and even jumping into the system lagged about 8 seconds.
Hope that helps = /
D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S |
eldaro
Gallente East Khanid Trading
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Posted - 2007.04.30 11:48:00 -
[276]
Really bad lag again all through the weekend, getting worse and worse until today when i get CTD twice within minutes. This was around the Khanid region and made it impossible to do missions and so frustrating when the market takes 30 sec to even load, come on CCP sort this out, EL Recruitment Thread EKT Website |
Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.30 12:24:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Nerogk Shorn ... My corp and allies had a 10v20 battle or so at the gate. My lag was noticeable, but not horrible, probably around 5-10 fps, yet others in my group indicated that there was much worse lag on their part, with freezing and slide shows.
Interpretation:
You are suffering from the packet-loss issue that appears to be hurting eastern USA subscribers. This adds a lot of lag to your connection which in-turn reduces stutter.
Most of your team mates would have had a good connection with very little lag. This allows stutter to hit them hard causing their PC's to freeze up for a bit. Also, all the extra objects on their displays compared with yours will reduce their average fps comparatively.
Quote: So I ran into the system whose gate we were on, and when I returned after the battle, there were only about 7-10 people in local and around 20 wrecks. The lag then was aweful. I couldn't understand why my lag wasn't THAT bad during the battle, and afterwards with pretty much no action (like two others on the gate with me) I was getting around 2 fps.
This time round you connection had cleared up leaving you with very little lag so stutter hit you hard.
Quote: My friend also warped to the gate while I was there only to not be able to jump. He sat there trying to jump, at which a random dude jumped in and podded him.
Your friend had effectively been disconnected.
I feel for you lot, I hope the ISP problem gets fixed soon. Then you can experience non-stop stutter like the rest of us. :/
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.30 12:33:00 -
[278]
Originally by: eldaro Really bad lag again all through the weekend, getting worse and worse until today when i get CTD twice within minutes.
I'll assume you are talking about low fps and stutter. Sounds like you might be suffering from thermal shutdown.
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Multimedia Carl
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Posted - 2007.04.30 13:24:00 -
[279]
Edited by: Multimedia Carl on 30/04/2007 13:21:03 Devs should read this thread!
we dont care about Walking in stations ( yet ) get the game running without the lag, the bugs, the DRONES PROBLEMS
Forget about putting more stuff into the game atm,, and get working on the stuff thats already there
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Mortecai
Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.04.30 13:28:00 -
[280]
Few days ago in Amarr we were hunting some privateers and found them at a station. There was maybe 10 or us with 4-5 privateers at most and the moment the shooting began eve turned into powerpoint edition with the client totally lagged out for me. As soon as shooting was over it was okey again. I never have such sucky fps in 0.0 in a small gang fight.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.30 13:36:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Multimedia Carl Devs should read this thread!
Don't worry, they have - your client performance and you - upcoming improvements
For further reading - Decouple Client Interface from Network
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Bund
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.23 05:24:00 -
[282]
Post Rev 2.0 patch, a 100 man fleet that had been going nearly two hours suddenly had the entire fleet overview turn to "No Gang" for everyone. It was still possible to invite to gang, but it was impossible to form new squads or wings. Dropping and relogging did not help. This made it impossible to continue taking invites, once the existing squads and wings filled up. I suspect this is newly broken in Rev 2.0, as I have never seen anything like it before. This problem was submitted via the bug report mechanism. |
solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.23 08:10:00 -
[283]
Why in Eve did you post that in this thread?! O_o
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Reycks Armunicus
Gallente CoreTech Industries E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.23 08:19:00 -
[284]
lag has been a bit much lately. It's good to see they are doing something about it
--------------- mods are strangely fixated on content... |
solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.23 08:26:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Reycks Armunicus lag has been a bit much lately. It's good to see they are doing something about it
Sadly, Rev2 has no improvement in it though. :(
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ThunderGodThor
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.23 08:49:00 -
[286]
Edited by: ThunderGodThor on 23/06/2007 08:48:05 Back back i say... necro is a bad thing mmkay
waits for mods clicky.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2007.06.23 08:52:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Tivookz on 23/06/2007 08:51:45 I still DEMAND a word from CCP saying that, yes this is a priority, and we ARE working on it.
Why? Because CCP are masters at saying stuff is on the way while it's not. I mean just by reading the game manual tells you the Jovians will soon be released.
Tiv
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Red Dreamu
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Posted - 2007.06.23 11:44:00 -
[288]
/Signed.
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Atynra
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Posted - 2007.08.06 14:38:00 -
[289]
okay, i'm only on a trial account, and i've only been playing for three days, but even I know you shouldn't get lag while mining a 'roid. I also know it's wrong to lose no less than 3 merlins consecutively because the game locks up as you enter a 'roid belt, and the next thing you see is your capsule warping to a station 5 minutes later. The game is gorgeous, the fights are fantastic (when you can see them) and the principle is perfect. Someone at CCP PLEASE do something about the facking lag!
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Laah T'Sin
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Posted - 2007.08.06 15:07:00 -
[290]
100% signed to the OP!
Having the same problems in all regions. Also the number of players involved seems only to have a minor influence.. i had a 60 vs 60 fight a few days ago with little lag (ie. 3-5 module activation but thats "smooth" compared to usual lag) and there was also no desync. Then a day later we try a lil 20 vs 20 and desync, lag up and disconnect.
oh well.. i don't really care about numbers anyway. I simply want a sollution and i'm slowly getting desperate.
I urge CCP to make "feature freeze" for the next 6 months and only work on the current issues. Then they can go on implementing new cool toys as soon as the game in it's current state fulfilles the following:
- server never crashes for 7 days in a row (outside of DT ofc) - no extreme lag for at least 7 days - no more reported desyncs
as soon as those basics are OK then CCP can think about waking sleeping dogs in form of new features. |
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