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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.12 18:33:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Grey Area on 12/04/2007 18:29:12 I've seen a few posts about people asking why they can't jump in the*****pit and "fly" their ships a la Freelancer, Elite, or other "immersive" space sim.
The reason is simple, it's because EVE is a RPG. Your ability to control your ships is dependant entirely upon the skills you have trained for your character - so you simply CANNOT allow people to circumvent that by;
- hauling on the joystick hard to cover the fact that they only trained Spaceship Command to level 1
- getting their target dead in the crosshairs to cover the fact that they only trained "Motion prediction" to level 1
Put simply...EVE is about how good your CHARACTER is...not how good YOU are with a joystick.
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Aneroi
Amarr VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2007.04.12 18:55:00 -
[2]
I disagree on both of your points.
- The skill with the joystick/mouse/keyboard is still based on your characters skill. If you are in a ship that turns slowly you can't turn it faster by tilting the joystick more.
- it would still have the same sort of fighting system. Put the weapon systems online and let them shoot. Its still ingame skill based!
I would love to be able to fly my ship manually. not because it would help me fighting just that it would be a better playing experience if I could steer my ship _____________________________________________________________________
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.04.12 19:43:00 -
[3]
To make that sort of radical change after all the years that Eve has been around would turn it into a completely different game with different rules and tactics.
To say that the veterans would lynch anyone who brought in that sort of change to this game would be a gross understatement. If it aint broke, don't fix it Many of us took a long time to get used to the style of play we have now, many of us steer away from joystick driven games because we don't get on with them. Don't try to turn Eve into a Star Wars type game, if you like that sort of game, there are plenty already around.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.12 21:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Aneroi I disagree on both of your points.
- The skill with the joystick/mouse/keyboard is still based on your characters skill. If you are in a ship that turns slowly you can't turn it faster by tilting the joystick more.
- it would still have the same sort of fighting system. Put the weapon systems online and let them shoot. Its still ingame skill based!
No, it's really not...it becomes ingame skill INFLUENCED, but not BASED. I might have spaceship command level 5, but sill be losing out to someone who is more of a joystick junky, but only has it trained to level 1.
OK, it's an extreme example - but certainly people who had EQUAL skills might find that their "interface abilities" influenced the outcome of combat - and that is NOT how EVE works. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Khorian
Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.12 22:47:00 -
[5]
This would probably cause horrible lag, because the server would have to calculate more than straight lines or simple orbits.
--------------------- This is the signature |
emepror
Gallente gallant heavy shipyards
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Posted - 2007.04.13 01:10:00 -
[6]
also your in a pod so it has absolutly no backround (you control your ship with a thought, and CCP just flings you in a different direction when you try and crash you ship)
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Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.13 01:56:00 -
[7]
Allegiance.
Anyway, the real reason itll never happen is because Eve is all about capital ships. And I dont mean capitals in the sense of dreadnoughts and such, but big slow turret monsters that dont turn on a dime. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.13 05:20:00 -
[8]
It won't happen because of lag and that's the entire reason.
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John McDuff
Caldari Jovian Labs The Foundation.
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Posted - 2007.04.14 05:59:00 -
[9]
Edited by: John McDuff on 14/04/2007 05:59:38 Edited by: John McDuff on 14/04/2007 05:55:56 Edit1: spelling Edit2: PS
Originally by: James Duar It won't happen because of lag and that's the entire reason.
Right, even having the option to fly from a first person perspective would sell and ccp would be arses for not implementing it. They're in business, not idealists, idealists die on the game market. Its just that contemporary technology does not support it.
Come back in 5-10 years...
PS Might be handy to put up a new sticky with stuff that will never happen, so ppl might consider not speaking of it a few years... :p ---
HQ
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Karma
Gallente Mos Eisley Consortium
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Posted - 2007.04.14 08:56:00 -
[10]
it would be nice to have joystick support for moving around...
but for aiming? in EVE we can fire in any direction we want. wouldn't it be stupid to limit it to 'just in front of you'.
so my vote goes to 'let us be able to position the ship with a joystick... but keep the fighting system the way it is. also... it should be an OPTION. not a requirement. _________________ "No Worries" Karma, fool on the hull. |
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Emylissan
Gallente European Science Armada
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Posted - 2007.04.14 13:43:00 -
[11]
You dont really need a stick to improve the controle of the ship in eve. Some additional commands in the right click menu would be enough.
1. Turn ship to target 2. Turn ship away from target
And it would be nice if you could create a bookmark in empty space via the tactical interface. Like select a point on the grid than choose its height and safe it or fly there without safe it. (for that the tactical interface has to show the entire area you are in inside a cube with all three dimensions visible and selectable).
----------------------------------------------------- Everyone who finds a type error can keep it. ----------------------------------------------------- |
Imhothar Xarodit
Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.14 16:03:00 -
[12]
The reason this will never happen is mainly technical limitations of the server.
Right now, you only need to tell the server that you want to fly a straight line. After that has happened, the server, as well as the client know this fact and can compute your flight path independantly from each other. If anything influences your path then it is adjusted. But the flight itself does not need any communication between you and the server because both know whow to orbit and how to fly straight ahead.
The only thing you are telling the server and vice versa is direction/speed changes from user input or object collision etc.
This would still hold true if you fly your ship manually ß la Freelancer or X-Wing. But it would happen multiple times a second for every single person using it in EVE. This information then needs to be redirected to all other players in range, so the amount of traffic increases exponentailly. Right now this inforamtion is send between client and server only once a few seconds or minutes.
It is not about that much about server performance as it is about the traffic overload and bandwidth limitation.
I believe that is the true reason why this never has been implemented and probably will never happen.
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V'elan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.04.15 12:55:00 -
[13]
Edited by: V''elan on 15/04/2007 12:56:04 Edited by: V''elan on 15/04/2007 12:54:23 See how well this has worked in the Infinity project (fl-tw.com). Answer: Getting it to work smooth has been proven more of a challenge than the lead programmer thought and thus a rewrite or couple are expected for the network/ship position system.
However I'm not saying it's impossible. It certainly isn't in small combat as we've seen in other games. There's even a project to make Quake 2 scale to 1000 players in the same room to test how this could be made to work. However that project mainly addresses the transport and client side. Also in Quake you shoot 1 weapon and there are no smartbombs (Ok well BigFukinGun might count as one) and such so one player can only affect so many other players simultanously. Since in EVE a Titan can blast hundreds of players into oblivion, it's much harder to separate pieces of the fleet fight to happen in different processors and if you did now there would be much more of processing overhead by that due to servers negotiating parts of the fleet fight to happen in different places.
edit: not to mention anything about how tough it would be to get such code to work correctly. Knowing CCP it would be a trade of lag to slightly less lag and a lot of node crashes.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.15 13:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Imhothar Xarodit The reason this will never happen is mainly technical limitations of the server.
No, really, it isn't.
Even if it could be implemented flawlessly this afternoon, it should NOT be. EVE is NOT a space flight simulator. It's an RPG. You direct your ship in the same way you would with other strategic games...you click where you want it to go, or you click on something you want it to attack. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.15 13:30:00 -
[15]
What's hilarious about this thread is that the OP is in fact completely wrong.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.04.15 15:13:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Thor Xian on 15/04/2007 15:11:21 Fly-by-wire would not dramatically increase lag. But it would force a revolution.
And Grey Area...you are crazy if you think those are the reasons. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Star Commander |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.15 21:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Thor Xian And Grey Area...you are crazy if you think those are the reasons.
They would certainly be MY reasons...if I want to fly a ship, I'll play Freelancer or one of the many other sims that give me that ability and are more geared around it than EVE. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
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