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Gravitas Deficit
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2017.01.01 16:34:53 -
[1] - Quote
At 6-7 mil, they can easily make up half the cost of a well fitted T1 frigate. A small ancillary shield booster costs 34k. |
Seer Profitus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2017.01.01 16:55:39 -
[2] - Quote
If you can't afford it, then don't buy it.
May the market bless you and keep you;
May the market make its opportunities shine upon you and be profitable to you;
May the market lift up its margins upon you and grant you ISK.
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Wander Prian
Art Of Explosions Hole Control
338
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Posted - 2017.01.01 17:02:34 -
[3] - Quote
CCP already increased the droprate of the blueprint. It takes time for the new stock to replace the old one. Also, as long as you are willing to pay, there's no reason to lower the price.
Wormholer for life.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27256
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Posted - 2017.01.01 19:10:31 -
[4] - Quote
Player driven economy; very little on the market is not player made.
If people are willing to pay what you see as an inflated price for an item, why should the sellers drop their prices?
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Gravitas Deficit
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2017.01.01 19:56:37 -
[5] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Player driven economy; very little on the market is not player made.
If people are willing to pay what you see as an inflated price for an item, why should the sellers drop their prices?
What is the justification for armor tanked T1 frigates costing twice as much as shield tanked ones? |
Memphis Baas
2630
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Posted - 2017.01.01 20:01:54 -
[6] - Quote
Supply and demand is the justification.
Everybody rushes to do the high end profitable data and relic sites, and nobody bothers with the low ends that drop the BPC's that are the only ways to manufacture the things.
Thus there's no supply.
CCP has done something about it, too; they increased the drop rate, and supposedly the deluge of new Alphas should have taken care of it. Not their fault that everyone sent the Alphas to nullsec instead of trying to get them to do exploration sites. |
Gravitas Deficit
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2017.01.01 20:11:59 -
[7] - Quote
A bit of searching revealed that the drop rates for the BPC were increased on December 13. So far this appears to have had no effect whatsover as average prices in Jita have increased from about 5m to 5.5m.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27262
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Posted - 2017.01.01 20:47:11 -
[8] - Quote
Gravitas Deficit wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Player driven economy; very little on the market is not player made.
If people are willing to pay what you see as an inflated price for an item, why should the sellers drop their prices? What is the justification for armor tanked T1 frigates costing twice as much as shield tanked ones? People are willing to pay more for armour tanking modules than they are shield tanking modules, taking advantage of that is the only justification needed.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Quincyy
Mobius Industries
4
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Posted - 2017.01.01 22:21:24 -
[9] - Quote
My answer to everyone that says something is too expensive;
Build it yourself. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
1472
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Posted - 2017.01.02 02:22:01 -
[10] - Quote
Gravitas Deficit wrote:At 6-7 mil, they can easily make up half the cost of a well fitted T1 frigate. A small ancillary shield booster costs 34k.
CCP doesn't set prices. If a module is so strong that everyone automatically adds it to their fit, then CCP will probably nerf it, and prices will fall, but they don't do this to change the prices. They are worried about game balance.
6-7m is chump change for a module. If you can't afford it now, just work on your income generation and eventually you will afford them.
Quote: A bit of searching revealed that the drop rates for the BPC were increased on December 13. So far this appears to have had no effect whatsover as average prices in Jita have increased from about 5m to 5.5m.
More people = more demand, prices rise even though they seeded BPC, apparently not many alphas are making them.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1815
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Posted - 2017.01.02 03:45:41 -
[11] - Quote
Gravitas Deficit wrote:
What is the justification for armor tanked T1 frigates costing twice as much as shield tanked ones?
Market Forces |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1815
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Posted - 2017.01.02 03:50:52 -
[12] - Quote
Gravitas Deficit wrote:A bit of searching revealed that the drop rates for the BPC were increased on December 13. So far this appears to have had no effect whatsover as average prices in Jita have increased from about 5m to 5.5m.
Maybe they would have been over 10 Million if CCP had not increased the DR.
It is Christmas time and lots of kids home from school for the holidays. Also lots of employed folks with more time off. Drop rates are not the only thing affecting price.
Edit: A smart player would see an opportunity to make isk here not an opportunity to whine. |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2601
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Posted - 2017.01.02 05:45:52 -
[13] - Quote
Armour-tanked ships frees up midslots for exploration modules. Hence...more demand = higher prices. There ya are. Player-driven economy in EvE, not market prices set by CCP.
edit: Yes, you could build those and sell them for a profit, you know... Ferengi time!
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
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Seer Profitus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2017.01.02 06:00:31 -
[14] - Quote
Gravitas Deficit wrote:At 6-7 mil, they can easily make up half the cost of a well fitted T1 frigate. A small ancillary shield booster costs 34k.
Maybe you can get some BPCs, manufacture them, and sell them for 34k ISK.
May the market bless you and keep you;
May the market make its opportunities shine upon you and be profitable to you;
May the market lift up its margins upon you and grant you ISK.
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Loreen Parker
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2017.01.02 09:56:59 -
[15] - Quote
I make all my isk exploring and found not one last year!
In fact, a year ago when the price skyrocketed, i was going through my stuff and discovered that i only found two 60x BPCs ever.
After they anounced a higher droprate i also did more data sites.
If i remember correctly one of the two BPC i found i got from a drone in drone space.
So where am i supposed to find them?
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Trevor Dalech
Absolute Obedience
263
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Posted - 2017.01.02 10:23:45 -
[16] - Quote
Loreen Parker wrote:
So where am i supposed to find them?
I found most of my supply years ago, back when I was still exploring in high sec. That may have changed over time, but after the hacking changes a couple of years back (no more rats) most explorers now rush straight to low/null/WH it seems as the rewards there are better. This may explain the lack of supply. |
Loreen Parker
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2017.01.02 11:02:02 -
[17] - Quote
Trevor Dalech wrote:Loreen Parker wrote:
So where am i supposed to find them?
I found most of my supply years ago, back when I was still exploring in high sec. That may have changed over time, but after the hacking changes a couple of years back (no more rats) most explorers now rush straight to low/null/WH it seems as the rewards there are better. This may explain the lack of supply.
But it would not explain why only the small AAR is affected.
Im sure that some major market manipulation is going on.
But whatever the reason is, it hurts T1 frig pvp and ccp should do something about it.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27272
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Posted - 2017.01.02 11:27:22 -
[18] - Quote
Loreen Parker wrote:Trevor Dalech wrote:Loreen Parker wrote:
So where am i supposed to find them?
I found most of my supply years ago, back when I was still exploring in high sec. That may have changed over time, but after the hacking changes a couple of years back (no more rats) most explorers now rush straight to low/null/WH it seems as the rewards there are better. This may explain the lack of supply. But it would not explain why only the small AAR is affected. Im sure that some major market manipulation is going on. But whatever the reason is, it hurts T1 frig pvp and ccp should do something about it. CCP tend to leave the market and prices well alone, while they may tweak things like drop rates and material costs they leave the prices up to us.
Interfering in the market sets a precedent, if they do it for one item they'll be inundated with people demanding that it's done to serve their interests too.
TL;DR CCP are extremely unlikely to directly interfere with the price of any modules.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
1476
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Posted - 2017.01.02 11:29:53 -
[19] - Quote
Loreen Parker wrote:Trevor Dalech wrote:Loreen Parker wrote:
So where am i supposed to find them?
I found most of my supply years ago, back when I was still exploring in high sec. That may have changed over time, but after the hacking changes a couple of years back (no more rats) most explorers now rush straight to low/null/WH it seems as the rewards there are better. This may explain the lack of supply. But it would not explain why only the small AAR is affected. Im sure that some major market manipulation is going on. But whatever the reason is, it hurts T1 frig pvp and ccp should do something about it.
Urm, no.
EVE is about player action not crying to devs and having the Devs fix your problem. Yes market manipulation happens, although usually for higher value items, because market manipulation only works for a short time. If someone were to come in and buy all the SAAR off the market and resell them for 100m each, it would work, for a few days maybe, then traders and industry that monitor the market would suddenly start cranking out SAAR and flooding the market until the prices fall again.
Seriously, if you intend to play eve, then you need to drop the attitude that CCP needs to fix your problems. Eve is a game for problem solvers. If you see a problem, the concept of finding your own solution should excite you. Because that is what Eve is about.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Marcus Binchiette
Pyrotech Creations
61
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Posted - 2017.01.02 12:56:15 -
[20] - Quote
Gravitas Deficit wrote:At 6-7 mil, they can easily make up half the cost of a well fitted T1 frigate. A small ancillary shield booster costs 34k.
The price of the module is dictated by supply and demand and CCP does not set the prices. I'd suggest that for an economical fitting that you do not fit ancilliary armour repair. Stick to the capacitor driven modules. I would recommend Small Accommodation Vestment Reconstructor I, or Small Armour Repair II if you have the skills.
Ancilliary repair uses a nanopaste charge, so you are consuming charges with every single repair cycle. They are really meant for high end PvP, and dual rep fittings. So unless you want the Rolls Royce PvP frigate I'd suggest you use something cheaper and more economical to replace. |
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Gravitas Deficit
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2017.01.02 13:12:53 -
[21] - Quote
CCP agrees that there is a problem that must be fixed (as seen from their unsuccessful intervention in December). So spare me this talk about wanting rolls royces, having a bad attitude, etc. This is hurting armor tanked frigate pvp. There is no reason why certain fits should be at such a disadvantage. |
Quartz Jori
Pan Eden Industries
10
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Posted - 2017.01.02 13:22:07 -
[22] - Quote
Gravitas Deficit wrote:CCP agrees that there is a problem that must be fixed (as seen from their unsuccessful intervention in December). So spare me this talk about wanting rolls royces, having a bad attitude, etc. This is hurting armor tanked frigate pvp. There is no reason why certain fits should be at such a disadvantage. If it's such a big problem that you can't stand to pilot an armor tanked frigate then fly something else. It's simple as. CCP does not interfere in market prices except in the case of PLEX or other limited availability items, which they manipulate through occasional sales/handouts.
Either that or go and actually find some BPCs to make your own. |
Hakawai
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2017.01.02 13:33:22 -
[23] - Quote
It's not just "Supply and Demand".
Input costs influence the supply side of that equation. So does the possibility of "Economic Rents" due to limited access to key inputs (notably BPs).
CCP sets the raw material requirements and the BP cost (or drop rate for some categories of BP ) for stuff like this - both obviously influence price via supply. Clearly CCP could influence the final price by changing these.
If they've made a genuine mistake they have no obligation to correct it, or even to share their insight - but then they deserve questions like the OP's. Of course if they see a mistake they want to correct they have a "legacy problem" - an overnight change cost would affect the value of existing inventory. Perhaps their answer to questions like this will always be "it's too much hassle to deal with it". |
Loreen Parker
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2017.01.02 13:37:06 -
[24] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:Loreen Parker wrote:Trevor Dalech wrote:Loreen Parker wrote:
So where am i supposed to find them?
I found most of my supply years ago, back when I was still exploring in high sec. That may have changed over time, but after the hacking changes a couple of years back (no more rats) most explorers now rush straight to low/null/WH it seems as the rewards there are better. This may explain the lack of supply. But it would not explain why only the small AAR is affected. Im sure that some major market manipulation is going on. But whatever the reason is, it hurts T1 frig pvp and ccp should do something about it. Urm, no. EVE is about player action not crying to devs and having the Devs fix your problem. Yes market manipulation happens, although usually for higher value items, because market manipulation only works for a short time. If someone were to come in and buy all the SAAR off the market and resell them for 100m each, it would work, for a few days maybe, then traders and industry that monitor the market would suddenly start cranking out SAAR and flooding the market until the prices fall again. Seriously, if you intend to play eve, then you need to drop the attitude that CCP needs to fix your problems. Eve is a game for problem solvers. If you see a problem, the concept of finding your own solution should excite you. Because that is what Eve is about.
Im fine thanx.
but if ccp did something to the droprate then they created the problem in the first place. So they should fix it.
Nobody is able to suddenly crank out SAAR because nobody friggin finds any.
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Quartz Jori
Pan Eden Industries
10
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Posted - 2017.01.02 13:40:50 -
[25] - Quote
Loreen Parker wrote:
Im fine thanx.
but if ccp did something to the droprate then they created the problem in the first place. So they should fix it.
Nobody is able to suddenly crank out SAAR because nobody friggin finds any.
CCP's last alteration increased the drop rate, so they've actually taken steps to make the module more accessible already. |
Loreen Parker
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2017.01.02 14:05:41 -
[26] - Quote
Quartz Jori wrote:Loreen Parker wrote:
Im fine thanx.
but if ccp did something to the droprate then they created the problem in the first place. So they should fix it.
Nobody is able to suddenly crank out SAAR because nobody friggin finds any.
CCP's last alteration increased the drop rate, so they've actually taken steps to make the module more accessible already.
yes, we will see. if they drop more now the price should come down in the next months.
but as i said i actively hunting for them, even more so since this anouncement and i found none. |
mkint
1340
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Posted - 2017.01.02 15:03:16 -
[27] - Quote
"CCP doesn't set the prices."
That completely fails to understand basic economics. CCP has 100% control over supply, and it's supply vs demand that determines price. If CCP wanted to, they could put the BP in the rookie ship package. They choose not to. CCP 100% determines the prices of everything, they just have to do so indirectly, and can't control (though they can influence) how quickly the market responds.
Whether or not the price should come down, I'm not going to take a position, but the nonsense gibberish about how CCP somehow doesn't have access to their own game's economy needs to stop.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1816
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Posted - 2017.01.02 15:29:36 -
[28] - Quote
Loreen Parker wrote: But whatever the reason is, it hurts T1 frig pvp and ccp should do something about it.
CCP give us a sandbox and allows us to do what we want with it.
I will tell you that if CCP is to take any further action on this it will likely be to nerf the module. That is how CCP does things. If too many people are using one specific ship or module they nerf it until it's use fall more in line with similar items.
So you might want to watch yourself before you start begging for CCP to do something as you might get what you are asking for, which is to nerf the thing so hard it's usage drops to a small fraction of what it is now. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1816
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Posted - 2017.01.02 15:50:43 -
[29] - Quote
Gravitas Deficit wrote:CCP agrees that there is a problem that must be fixed (as seen from their unsuccessful intervention in December).
I don't see how you can say that "CCP agrees that there is a problem" just because they increased the DR. For all that you know that could have been an experiment to see what happened to use and pricing before making another move.
When CCP introduced these modules a few years back they intentionally made them BPCs that drop instead of BPOs that you buy off of the market like everything else. One of the stated reasons was so that they could control supply and use that as a balancing factor.
So I don't see how them following the original plan and using drop rates as a balancing factor is them admitting there is a problem. If anything that would indicate everything is working well.
Gravitas Deficit wrote: So spare me this talk about wanting rolls royces, having a bad attitude, etc. This is hurting armor tanked frigate pvp. There is no reason why certain fits should be at such a disadvantage.
The module must be very very powerful or you would not want it so much. So if the module is more powerful and more expensive that is not disadvantaging the fit. That is bringing balance to the situation.
I could make the same argument about officer mods and that they are too high in price and CCP must do something about the DR to make prices "reasonable" so that it doesn't hurt PvP. My argument would be no more valid than yours.
So yes you do have a "bad attitude" in the sense that it is one that does not work well in this game or more to the point flies in the face of very core concepts of this game and therefore is a poor choice of frame to come from.
I have no experience with the SAAR personally but from the sounds of the whinning about their price, to me, it sounds like you most certainly are looking for faction module power at standard T1 module pricing, or to fit the context here Rolls Royce performance at Chevy pricing.
Just as a note to how CCP typically acts: I am fairly certain that the office coffee maker at CCP HQ uses player tears to brew their morning get-up-and-go. CCP loves the tears of whinny, self entitled cry babies. So I say cry more, the if the devs read it they are likely to nerf the crap out of the SAARs like I stated in a previous post. |
Marcus Binchiette
Pyrotech Creations
62
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Posted - 2017.01.02 15:53:02 -
[30] - Quote
Gravitas Deficit wrote:CCP agrees that there is a problem that must be fixed (as seen from their unsuccessful intervention in December). So spare me this talk about wanting rolls royces, having a bad attitude, etc. This is hurting armor tanked frigate pvp. There is no reason why certain fits should be at such a disadvantage.
But why should we spare you the talk about wanting the Rolls Royce fitting? Economics is an essential aspect of fitting your ship. The market is under no obligation to provide you with the parts you need to fit the ship that you want. So if the modules are in short supply, or are too expensive, then you need to adapt. It is as simple as that.
You need to recognise that many of those items you are looking for are either manufactured by industrialists, or gathered by salvagers, and they have no obligation to provide you with the parts you need to fit your combat ship. Especially considering the likelihood that that ship could be used against them. Have you not considered that the high price could be a market based PvP instigated by industrial players?... So why should CPP lift a finger to stop it?
You either need to fork out more ISK, or Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. Either way you have not provided a compelling argument for anyone to do anything about it.
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