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Marduk Felzhen
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Posted - 2007.04.13 18:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Marduk Felzhen on 13/04/2007 18:56:28 Ive always wanted to fly the apoc, its been my dream ship ever since i got into eve. However, looking through the various builds, i see all of them utilize some sort of gun/nos setup. Now i know, in pvp nos is king, however i find it silly that ships that boast 8 turret slots rarely have all 8 being used in pvp. I mean, why not just give it 7 turret slots then? (i know all turrets are utilized for fleet battles, but im talking about smallscale skirmishes)
What i want to know is, is it possible to have an 8 gun apoc setup (used in gangs, b/c solo pvp -in a bs no less- is stupid) and to have its mids filled instead of ab/scram/web but put in cap enhancing mods (injectors, batteries, what not), and have its lows set to close range as usual (LAR, EANM PLATE, HS, whatever).
For many other ships this might not be possible, but the apoc has a dual bonus to cap use, one for turrets and one for overall capictor. Anybody have any thoughts?
edit: furthermore, is the lack of nos capable of being mitigated by cap recharge/enhancing rigs?
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Mathias Orsen
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Posted - 2007.04.13 19:21:00 -
[2]
never flown an apoch myself... and in PVP, seems rare that i ever even see one. Close range + apoc = bad. The armaggedon is a much better ship for close range due to it's bonuses.
When looking for a close range damage ship, you want just that. The geddon is made for dealing high damge in short time. The apoc is better for sniping since tachs have higher PG fitting requirements.
With the geddon, you also get the use of those 5x heavy drones. These things more than make up for the apoc's extra turret as far as damage goes.
The end result.. close range geddon has 1 less turret, damage bonus and 5x heavy drones. The apoc lacks the damage bonus, lacks the drones, tries to make up for it with 1 extra turret. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get" |
Marduk Felzhen
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Posted - 2007.04.13 19:22:00 -
[3]
so the apoc is only usefull for tachyon long range fittings? as sniper support?
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Vaine Amarr
Amarr Upright Citizens Brigade
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Posted - 2007.04.13 19:49:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Marduk Felzhen so the apoc is only usefull for tachyon long range fittings? as sniper support?
Mega Beam dual large rep apoc ftw for missions. __________________________ It's great beeing Amarr, ain't it?
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Mathias Orsen
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Posted - 2007.04.13 20:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Marduk Felzhen so the apoc is only usefull for tachyon long range fittings? as sniper support?
I can't say that is the only use, but as far as I have ever seen, it really is. As above posted, Mega pulses are great for missions...
Is I stated before, I've never actually flown an apoc. I inly go by what I have seen. When comming from an apoc, I've never seen much.
The apoc is actually the only armor tanking ship that I have never cared to have... The geddon I do like though. If i had t2 pulse skills, I'd choose it over a blasterthron. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get" |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.13 20:14:00 -
[6]
There's another thread that speaks to an appoc with a bunch of 1400mm artys, and apparently it did rather well. -AS |
Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2007.04.13 20:30:00 -
[7]
Geddon beats the pants off apoc for short range because of the ROF bonus and larger drone bay, but apoc makes a better sniper because increased cap allows for longer firing and increased grid means you don't need double RCUs to fit a rack of tachs. ----------------
If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a browser that supports .png. |
Shirazz
Amarr Original Pirating Material
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Posted - 2007.04.13 22:56:00 -
[8]
Ok as the others said before, the geddon for pvp is the better choice because of its great RoF bonus and 125m2 drone bay. If you wanted to use an apoc, id use this setup:
--->Apoc
High Mega Pulse Laser II [1xConflagration L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xConflagration L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xConflagration L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xConflagration L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xConflagration L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xConflagration L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xConflagration L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xConflagration L]
Med Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I [4xCap Booster 800] 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array
Low Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I Type-D Power Core Modification: Reaction Control Heat Sink II
This setup gives good damage with a very nice tank and there should only be limited cap issues because of the double bonuses along with the injector and rechargers, this would be ideal for gang warfare. The tech 2 modules can be replaced with good named with around the same effect.
As far as the geddon is concerned I find that an all gank setup works nicley which means 7 MPLIIs, 3HSIIs and at least 1 TCII with a few 1600mmRTPs. Its just personal preference really.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2007.04.13 23:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dahak2150 Geddon beats the pants off apoc for short range because of the ROF bonus and larger drone bay, but apoc makes a better sniper because increased cap allows for longer firing and increased grid means you don't need double RCUs to fit a rack of tachs.
The Armageddon and Apoc both need to use 2x RCUs to fit full Tachyons. The Apoc has around a 14% stronger Alpha, while the Armageddon has around 14% more DPS.
The Apoc is far more sustainable in a sniping setup, though. Guess it really depends on how long you think you'll be shooting.
A short-range Apoc doesn't work so well, and even using Dual Heavy Pulse II with maxed skills, can't fit a dualrep tank and two heatsinks, needing to drop a HS II for a Co-Proc, which hurts it a lot.
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Monoklas
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Posted - 2007.04.13 23:50:00 -
[10]
Err, sai, the one above has 1 hs and 8 megapulses with 2 large armour rep IIs, im sure you could drop the N-type ENAM for another hs?
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Jayne Tamm
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Posted - 2007.04.14 00:11:00 -
[11]
i know this is a little off topic...
but.. are tachyons only good for sniping?...or do they perform well at say mid ranges...ie 30 - 60 km?
reason i ask..most pvp will be done at close ranges (not talkin solo..but gangs also), but the tracking of the tachs are not as good as say blasters or pulse lasers...but, with a tracking comp or 2..are they not still very effective, and high damage dealing weapons? (if not a bit cap intensive)
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Marduk Felzhen
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Posted - 2007.04.14 00:11:00 -
[12]
thanks shirazz, that sort of setup was exactly what i was looking for
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Shirazz
Amarr Original Pirating Material
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Posted - 2007.04.14 00:40:00 -
[13]
No probs mate, any time, it does require AWU 4 though. Happy hunting I suppose
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Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.14 00:58:00 -
[14]
Back in the day you used to see apocs in PvP all the time. Now, not so much. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might As well Train Another Race |
G Dabak
Magellanic Itg GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.04.14 01:50:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jayne Tamm i know this is a little off topic...
but.. are tachyons only good for sniping?...or do they perform well at say mid ranges...ie 30 - 60 km?
reason i ask..most pvp will be done at close ranges (not talkin solo..but gangs also), but the tracking of the tachs are not as good as say blasters or pulse lasers...but, with a tracking comp or 2..are they not still very effective, and high damage dealing weapons? (if not a bit cap intensive)
I'm not sure about the graphs but if it's a big/slow/far/webbed target they're great. Multifrequency or gamma should cover a close range engagement area fine. Scorch L works for this too though. Off the top of my head I can't remember which tracks better, but I think Scorch, based on the stuff I've been able to hit with it. The downside to that is the heavy EM damage and skill requirements. But yeah fitting long range guns for non-sniping is perfectly good if your gang is well composed.
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Gamesguy
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.14 02:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: G Dabak
Originally by: Jayne Tamm i know this is a little off topic...
but.. are tachyons only good for sniping?...or do they perform well at say mid ranges...ie 30 - 60 km?
reason i ask..most pvp will be done at close ranges (not talkin solo..but gangs also), but the tracking of the tachs are not as good as say blasters or pulse lasers...but, with a tracking comp or 2..are they not still very effective, and high damage dealing weapons? (if not a bit cap intensive)
I'm not sure about the graphs but if it's a big/slow/far/webbed target they're great. Multifrequency or gamma should cover a close range engagement area fine. Scorch L works for this too though. Off the top of my head I can't remember which tracks better, but I think Scorch, based on the stuff I've been able to hit with it. The downside to that is the heavy EM damage and skill requirements. But yeah fitting long range guns for non-sniping is perfectly good if your gang is well composed.
I hit inties with my tachs on an abbaddon from 15km away. As long as you have tacklers that web the target for you its not a problem.
For close range you want a geddon, however if you really want to use an apoc it can be setup like this.
8x Electron Blaster II
1x 100mn MWD II 1x Heavy Cap Booster II 1x x5 Web 1x Faint Episilon Warp Prohibitor (the 24 cpu scram)
2x LAR II 2x EANM II 1x IFF 2x Mag Stab II
2x The 10% hybrid cpu reduction rig, and you need the 5% turret cpu implant as well.
Fits with 1 cpu to spare.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.14 07:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gamesguy
I hit inties with my tachs on an abbaddon from 15km away. As long as you have tacklers that web the target for you its not a problem.
A ship with 400m/s transversal and 160 sig[a rather slow mwding 4km/s inty with a 90% web on] you will hit, at 15 KM with max skilled tachyons[1 TC, 2 TE] laser beams exactly 1% of the time.
A reasonably fast inty you will not ever hit at 15 km, not even with 3 TC IIs in your mids. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Gamesguy
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.14 08:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Gamesguy
I hit inties with my tachs on an abbaddon from 15km away. As long as you have tacklers that web the target for you its not a problem.
A ship with 400m/s transversal and 160 sig[a rather slow mwding 4km/s inty with a 90% web on] you will hit, at 15 KM with max skilled tachyons[1 TC, 2 TE] laser beams exactly 1% of the time.
A reasonably fast inty you will not ever hit at 15 km, not even with 3 TC IIs in your mids.
Thats nice, except there was more than 1 web.
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