Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jacques d'Orleans
2871
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 21:23:40 -
[391] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Hey guys, do you think you can get that argument over another 5-6 pages, I just ordered me a Pizza and a Six Pack. You can get beer delivered? Damn.
Yeah, in Germany that's not a problem.
Have you seen Robocop? Many people don't know that it's actually a documentary.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5750
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 21:24:32 -
[392] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Hey guys, do you think you can get that argument over another 5-6 pages, I just ordered me a Pizza and a Six Pack.
I'll do my best.
Salvos,
Your bourgeois attitude is reflected in your post-deconstructionist belief structure that is hampering your ability to view this issue from a neo-syndicalist feminist perspective and just further reinforces your textual desublimination as being unsustainable. You really should start over and use a post-marxian and prepatriarchial feminism as the basis of your argument.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5752
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 21:25:20 -
[393] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Hey guys, do you think you can get that argument over another 5-6 pages, I just ordered me a Pizza and a Six Pack. You can get beer delivered? Damn. Yeah, in Germany that's not a problem.
How civilized.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Jacques d'Orleans
2873
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 21:27:56 -
[394] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Hey guys, do you think you can get that argument over another 5-6 pages, I just ordered me a Pizza and a Six Pack. I'll do my best. Salvos, Your bourgeois attitude is reflected in your post-deconstructionist belief structure that is hampering your ability to view this issue from a neo-syndicalist feminist perspective and just further reinforces your textual desublimination as being unsustainable. You really should start over and use a post-marxian and prepatriarchial feminism as the basis of your argument.
Nice text, can somebody explain it to me? I'm over 50. *roflmao*
Have you seen Robocop? Many people don't know that it's actually a documentary.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27349
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 21:31:39 -
[395] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Hey guys, do you think you can get that argument over another 5-6 pages, I just ordered me a Pizza and a Six Pack. You can get beer delivered? Damn. Yeah, in Germany that's not a problem. Same here in the UK, my local takeaway sells alcohol and delivers.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5752
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 21:32:17 -
[396] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Hey guys, do you think you can get that argument over another 5-6 pages, I just ordered me a Pizza and a Six Pack. I'll do my best. Salvos, Your bourgeois attitude is reflected in your post-deconstructionist belief structure that is hampering your ability to view this issue from a neo-syndicalist feminist perspective and just further reinforces your textual desublimination as being unsustainable. You really should start over and use a post-marxian and prepatriarchial feminism as the basis of your argument. Nice text, can somebody explain it to me? I'm over 50. *roflmao*
It is just some gibberish I threw together from a postmondern text generator. It is actually harder than it sounds.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5752
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 21:35:36 -
[397] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Hey guys, do you think you can get that argument over another 5-6 pages, I just ordered me a Pizza and a Six Pack. You can get beer delivered? Damn. Yeah, in Germany that's not a problem. Same here in the UK, my local takeaway sells alcohol and delivers.
Jesus Christ...why can't we have this here in the U.S.? I blame gay marriage.
P.S.: FYI, for the literalists, that part about blaming gay marriage is a joke. I'm fine with gay marriage. Marry whomever you want so long as everyone consents....I just don't care. Good luck.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27349
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 21:43:16 -
[398] - Quote
IIRC McDonald's sells beer in France and Germany. That's what 2000 years of civilisation and the Romans do for you
*rubs some salt in*
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5754
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 22:20:01 -
[399] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:IIRC McDonald's sells beer in France and Germany. That's what 2000 years of civilisation and the Romans do for you *rubs some salt in*
Gee thanks.
That and the U.S. and it's temperance inclinations.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Jacques d'Orleans
2874
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 22:31:32 -
[400] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:IIRC McDonald's sells beer in France and Germany. That's what 2000 years of civilisation and the Romans do for you *rubs some salt in*
I'm bavarian, sometimes I have beer with my breakfast!
Have you seen Robocop? Many people don't know that it's actually a documentary.
|
|
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
28
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 22:39:25 -
[401] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Am I now allowed to talk about statistics?
You didn't actually mention the statistic. Just skipped to the conclusion that "ganking is good for player retention" because Rise said so. The number that preceded this conclusion was One Percent. I don't have a degree, but even I can work out that 99% stayed when not illegally attacked as newbro. Ganking is neither good or bad, it's just irrelevant to the factors of player retention.
/thread
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5754
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 22:58:23 -
[402] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Am I now allowed to talk about statistics? You didn't actually mention the statistic. Just skipped to the conclusion that "ganking is good for player retention" because Rise said so. The number that preceded this conclusion was One Percent. I don't have a degree, but even I can work out that 99% stayed when not illegally attacked as newbro. Ganking is neither good or bad, it's just irrelevant to the factors of player retention. /thread
Wow....
Yes, 1% of the sample were ganked. That right there should tell you something:
-That ganking is not a significant problem for new players. You have about a 1% probability of being ganked in your first 15 days.
And the result is not invalid simply because looking at the categories allocates a small percentage fall into one category.
And actually, what CCP Rise said in the presentation suggested that those ganked and killed legally stay about the same. No he did not produce any sort of statistical tests, but he did say that while those who were ganked stayed with the game longest, those killed legally stayed almost as long. Now, if we had the data we could take those estimates and construct confidence intervals (if we stay inside the frequentist paradigm) and see how much those intervals overlap. If the overlap is large enough--i.e. each interval contains the point estimate for the other group, then those two point estimates are statistically identical. So it may not be a mere 1% but more like 15% or about 12,000 out of the 80,000.
The conclusion, which is not proven here but is an opinion based on the numbers and statistics, is that player-on-player interaction is good for retention. This is even true for ganking. It would be nice to see if other interactions have the same effect but they are harder to isolate. You would probably need to construct a sample and then follow those players over time and collect data on their interactions with other players...essentially construct a panel data set. Then we could look into building fixed effects models and random effects models. My guess/hunch/belief is that player-on-player interaction has a positive effect on retention, even if that interaction is "negative" i.e. combat where there is a ship loss.
But don't mind me, I'm just a dummy when it comes to statistics.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5756
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 23:07:52 -
[403] - Quote
Let me put it this way. The notion that preventing ganking of players less than 15 days old, according to this study, will most likely not improve player retention. This follows for two reasons:
1. Players less than 15 days old are very rarely ganked. 2. Players who are ganked stay with the game longer.
If these results are TrueGäó then the effect on retention will be either zero or negative.
Now you can disagree with that, but you have literally nothing for evidence. I mean nothing. Your beliefs are not evidence.
What would be really awesome is if CCP replicated the study. See if the same or similar results hold.
But again, apparently I don't know **** from shinola when it comes to statistics.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Keno Skir
1181
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 00:08:04 -
[404] - Quote
Loving this thread
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
Including ISK Bonus & In Game Assistance - Piracy / Wormhole Space / Covops PvP
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5757
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 02:02:17 -
[405] - Quote
And while CCP cannot release the actual data providing more of the analysis and such would be great. Like calculating confidence intervals for example. Confirm that it is a randomized sample. Provide and overview of how they tried to weed out alts, if they did do this.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46611
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 03:05:42 -
[406] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Provide and overview of how they tried to weed out alts, if they did do this. In the look at the 80,000 players, CCP Rise stated in the presentation that it was individual people, not alt accounts.
He didn't elaborate further, but there's no reason to doubt what he said:
https://youtu.be/A92Ge2S8M1Y (@2min 31sec) |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3497
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 06:39:52 -
[407] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:IIRC McDonald's sells beer in France and Germany. That's what 2000 years of civilisation and the Romans do for you *rubs some salt in* I'm bavarian, sometimes I have beer with my breakfast! Wow, and here I was thinking that the definition of breakfast is that it is the meal without alcohol.
Mind blown.
Switzerland has beer in McDonald's too
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5762
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 06:56:50 -
[408] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:IIRC McDonald's sells beer in France and Germany. That's what 2000 years of civilisation and the Romans do for you *rubs some salt in* I'm bavarian, sometimes I have beer with my breakfast! Wow, and here I was thinking that the definition of breakfast is that it is the meal without alcohol. Mind blown. Switzerland has beer in McDonald's too
Okay to show there at least some civilized parts of the U.S., I have it on good authority that you can buy alcoholic beverages at drive thus in and around New Orleans so long as they leave the straw wrapper on the tip of the straw and you don't take it off...the drink is considered a "closed container" so long as that bit of paper is there.
Edit: Best part of this thread, the discussion of booze.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5176
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 07:06:10 -
[409] - Quote
I know the Jita scammers aren't complaining...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3498
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 07:56:41 -
[410] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:so long as they leave the straw wrapper on the tip of the straw and you don't take it off...the drink is considered a "closed container" so long as that bit of paper is there. Haha, I love bs laws like that. We have something similar. When I was young RedBull was just invented and you could order it in every bar with Wodka. Then some idiots drank too much and died, which probably happens with every beverage if only you wait long enough, just because there are a lot of idiots. But because RedBull was new it was somehow the "new bad guy" and killing children. Since then you can still order the beverage, but they are not allowed to mix it, you just get a separate can of RedBull and a glass of Vodka.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
|
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
277
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 11:01:33 -
[411] - Quote
Eh?
Ganked players stay longer?
I wonder when CCP will consider the implications.
*pictures swarms of CCP employees out ganking alpha clones*
I guess it depends what the ganked stay around to do. Maybe they dedicate themselves to ganking? The circle of gank.
CCP has so much information that all of it must seem like noise.
When CCP Rise mentioned that new players were fascinated by planets, but he didn't know why. That seems like a very interesting opportunity for CCP.
I'm glad I can sit here in space, just reading, without having to make virtual life and death decisions over a game's future.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
|
Yebo Lakatosh
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 11:20:42 -
[412] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Ganked players stay longer?
Players that were ganked in their first 15 days stay longer - so I hear. I can imagine how this is the case. Losing a few 1-3mil worth of ships doesn't feel like a huge break in one's career, but the victims might learn what to expect.
However, picture a new player who (let's say) mines undisturbed for more than two weeks, never learns the First Rule of EvE, but proceeds to buy the flashiest, best equipped capital he can afford. Now imagine how long that ship, and the owning player's enthusiasm will last. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
606
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 11:20:44 -
[413] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Eh?
Ganked players stay longer? Yeah, I know it's hard to wrap your pretty little head around.
In the end, it doesn't really matter whether it was getting ganked or getting blown up in lowsec or whatever. At least something exciting happened and I think this is why the notion that people who gets ganked stays longer. Mining or missioning are pretty boring activities and if you as a new player don't get your ship blown up, then you may think EvE is all about that ISK grinding in highsec. You eventually burn out during the first weeks and don't come back to EvE again. After all, their prejudice that EvE is all about those spreadsheets online just got confirmed.
It could be pretty cool to actually make study of the EvE playerbase, but from personal experience, then I can only confirm that PvP is what people play EvE for and what makes the game exciting. The PvE aspects are only there to finance your PvP activities. |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
277
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 11:34:13 -
[414] - Quote
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:Ganked players stay longer? Players that were ganked in their first 15 days stay longer - so I hear. I can imagine how this is the case. Losing a few 1-3mil worth of ships doesn't feel like a huge break in one's career, but the victims might learn what to expect. However, picture a new player who (let's say) mines undisturbed for more than two weeks, never learns the First Rule of EvE, but proceeds to buy the flashiest, best equipped capital he can afford. Now imagine how long that ship, and the owning player's enthusiasm will last.
Yeah I watched the 2015 presentation.
I'd love to look at the numbers, and what the remaining players do.
It's an interesting beginning of an idea. Perhaps these people find a protaganist, a bad guy for their story. Perhaps these people like negative interactions. Perhaps they like combat. Perhaps those players who got ganked were very exploratory compared to others and were way outside secure space looking for something to happen.
As you say mining is hardly going to keep anyone engaged, apart from oddballs like myself.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
|
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
277
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 11:36:37 -
[415] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:Eh?
Ganked players stay longer? Yeah, I know it's hard to wrap your pretty little head around. In the end, it doesn't really matter whether it was getting ganked or getting blown up in lowsec or whatever. At least something exciting happened and I think this is why the notion that people who gets ganked stays longer. Mining or missioning are pretty boring activities and if you as a new player don't get your ship blown up, then you may think EvE is all about that ISK grinding in highsec. You eventually burn out during the first weeks and don't come back to EvE again. After all, their prejudice that EvE is all about those spreadsheets online just got confirmed. It could be pretty cool to actually make study of the EvE playerbase, but from personal experience, then I can only confirm that PvP is what people play EvE for and what makes the game exciting. The PvE aspects are only there to finance your PvP activities.
Thanks for the compliment, but I have a girlfriend.
So you would suggest that CCP devs go out and gank every new play within the first two weeks?
I'd say there is something else going on.
Or is your contention that EVE is sooooo boring that getting killed is an improvement?
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
|
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
606
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 11:53:29 -
[416] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Thanks for the compliment, but I have a girlfriend.
So you would suggest that CCP devs go out and gank every new play within the first two weeks?
I'd say there is something else going on.
Or is your contention that EVE is sooooo boring that getting killed is an improvement? EvE PvE is pretty boring in its current state.
What I'm getting at, is that EvE is more fun if one is not a carebear like you and actually go out and risk your ship. Ships are expendable in EvE anyway, that is the whole point that EvE is built upon. The fact, that you actually risk some assets when you venture out is what makes it exciting.
Maybe I'm just different from you, but as mentioned before, from personal experience getting people out in the "wild", is what makes them come back to the game. Initially, I told my friends to just mine, cause it was easy ISK (cause it is). Took them one week to get bored of EvE and stop. Managed to get them into EvE again, however this time we went straight to WHs to make ISK. Turns out the risk of getting blown up from both players and rats, made the game more fun and kept them playing.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5762
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 19:06:27 -
[417] - Quote
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:Ganked players stay longer? Players that were ganked in their first 15 days stay longer - so I hear. I can imagine how this is the case. Losing a few 1-3mil worth of ships doesn't feel like a huge break in one's career, but the victims might learn what to expect. However, picture a new player who (let's say) mines undisturbed for more than two weeks, never learns the First Rule of EvE, but proceeds to buy the flashiest, best equipped capital he can afford. Now imagine how long that ship, and the owning player's enthusiasm will last.
My guess is it is player-on-player interaction. Other types of player-on-player interaction might have similar effects, but would be harder to find in the data, IMO.
You are correct that a playerGÇÖs decision to stay with the game will be dependent on their own personal experience, and some players ganked in various situations may leave right away. However, that is not inconsistent with the findings by CCP. They most likely were reporting either the mean or median value for time in game. So, what that means is that, on average, the ganked player stays longer than the non-ganked players.
Lastly, a 1 million ISK ship loss may not feel like a lot when you have say a billion ISK. But if you are a new player and you just bought that million ISK ship and glue fit it because you donGÇÖt have the ISK to fit better modules and then lose said shipGǪthat is a significant loss as it means you just lost the bulk of your EVE wealth. Losing a 2 billion bling fit ship when you have 4 billion in liquid ISK in your wallet, then the loss might not seem as bad.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Salvos Rhoska
1956
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 19:14:02 -
[418] - Quote
Stop killing noobs.
There is no profit in it.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Keno Skir
1184
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 19:20:00 -
[419] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:IIRC McDonald's sells beer in France and Germany. That's what 2000 years of civilisation and the Romans do for you *rubs some salt in* I'm bavarian, sometimes I have beer with my breakfast! Wow, and here I was thinking that the definition of breakfast is that it is the meal without alcohol. Mind blown. Switzerland has beer in McDonald's too Okay to show there at least some civilized parts of the U.S., I have it on good authority that you can buy alcoholic beverages at drive thus in and around New Orleans so long as they leave the straw wrapper on the tip of the straw and you don't take it off...the drink is considered a "closed container" so long as that bit of paper is there. Edit: Best part of this thread, the discussion of booze.
Having beer in McDonalds isn't civilized. A country with no McDonalds is civilized.
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
Including ISK Bonus & In Game Assistance - Piracy / Wormhole Space / Covops PvP
|
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
960
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 19:21:16 -
[420] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Okay to show there at least some civilized parts of the U.S., I have it on good authority that you can buy alcoholic beverages at drive thus in and around New Orleans so long as they leave the straw wrapper on the tip of the straw and you don't take it off...the drink is considered a "closed container" so long as that bit of paper is there.
Edit: Best part of this thread, the discussion of booze.
I used to live in Wyoming, up until not too long ago you could buy mixed drinks at drive through windows. no straw wrapper needed, but then again it has 9x more space then Denmark, and has 1/6 as many people. I was in a town of 400 people and the next closest town was an hour and a half drive away. That one had 1,500 people. Who are you really going to hit if you get drunk? |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |