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Emaya Young
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2017.01.08 07:07:25 -
[1] - Quote
Since CCP is making or has made some of the strongest features blocked by a pay wall I thought... "Why not put invulnerability in the mix too". Now, it's not god mode but something else, an invulnerability license. What this does is make players unable to be shot at by other players, but at the same time it locks you out of any pvp actions (player killing, podding, can swapping, warp bubble, etc.) though if you get caught in a warp bubble you will be tortured as anyone does but just won't be shot down. Now, to lessen the chance of abuse, it would be locked to Alphas. This gives each side it's own unique advantage. The Omega pays to get stronger ships and passive isk making while Alphas get an efficient isk making (though less in most cases) and invulnerability to players (npcs will still pulverize you). The point of this is to add (by technicality) a PVE Eve in a way that CCP would like and make the game more fun for alphas that don't like player interaction, etc...
Given the game's player base, I doubt players would approve (Omegas/vets) but this doesn't directly concern them, more so alphas that are new and would like a choice since there is no real PVE Eve. And, players will have to find a new way to harass other players. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5671
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 07:13:47 -
[2] - Quote
Emaya Young wrote:Since CCP is making or has made some of the strongest features blocked by a pay wall I thought... "Why not put invulnerability in the mix too". Now, it's not god mode but something else, an invulnerability license. What this does is make players unable to be shot at by other players, but at the same time it locks you out of any pvp actions (player killing, podding, can swapping, warp bubble, etc.) though if you get caught in a warp bubble you will be tortured as anyone does but just won't be shot down. Now, to lessen the chance of abuse, it would be locked to Alphas. This gives each side it's own unique advantage. The Omega pays to get stronger ships and passive isk making while Alphas get an efficient isk making (though less in most cases) and invulnerability to players (npcs will still pulverize you). The point of this is to add (by technicality) a PVE Eve in a way that CCP would like and make the game more fun for alphas that don't like player interaction, etc...
Given the game's player base, I doubt players would approve (Omegas/vets) but this doesn't directly concern them, more so alphas that are new and would like a choice since there is no real PVE Eve. And, players will have to find a new way to harass other players.
Nope.
-1
Want to not be shot by other players, go play another game.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11339
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Posted - 2017.01.08 07:23:32 -
[3] - Quote
Not Supported.
What you propose is the antithesis of EVE.
How did you Veterans start?
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46540
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 07:30:16 -
[4] - Quote
PLEX, Skill Injector, high value loot hauler all over the game in complete safety?
No thanks. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3283
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 07:42:28 -
[5] - Quote
I like this idea of an "anti-PvP" license, excluding people from every PvP. Of course this means, they can only ever trade and exchange stuff with NPC, and the great portfolio they offer. Every player-made item will be confiscated upon activation of the license.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3682
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 09:04:02 -
[6] - Quote
Gtfo.
Players that don't like player interaction are playing the wrong game.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3057
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 09:15:33 -
[7] - Quote
Emaya Young wrote:Since CCP is making or has made some of the strongest features blocked by a pay wall I thought... "Why not put invulnerability in the mix too". Now, it's not god mode but something else, an invulnerability license. What this does is make players unable to be shot at by other players, but at the same time it locks you out of any pvp actions (player killing, podding, can swapping, warp bubble, etc.) though if you get caught in a warp bubble you will be tortured as anyone does but just won't be shot down. Now, to lessen the chance of abuse, it would be locked to Alphas. This gives each side it's own unique advantage. The Omega pays to get stronger ships and passive isk making while Alphas get an efficient isk making (though less in most cases) and invulnerability to players (npcs will still pulverize you). The point of this is to add (by technicality) a PVE Eve in a way that CCP would like and make the game more fun for alphas that don't like player interaction, etc...
Given the game's player base, I doubt players would approve (Omegas/vets) but this doesn't directly concern them, more so alphas that are new and would like a choice since there is no real PVE Eve. And, players will have to find a new way to harass other players. I don't get the purpose of your license. Just to allow alpha players to make ISK in absence of competition with the other players? If so, that is already in the game. Just change your server from 'Tranquility' to 'Singularity' on the launcher and you will spawn in a version of New Eden where CCP explicitly disallows non-consensual attack. You can move about New Eden, enjoying the sights and running any of the PvE you choose without fear of player interaction.
But, of course, the real game on 'Tranquility' is all about player interaction. If you want to enjoy the rewards of your PvE which are only given value by the fact other players want them, then you have to be vulnerable to those same players interfering with your gathering of those items. It's literally the core idea of the game.
So -1.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Fek Mercer
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
25
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Posted - 2017.01.08 09:51:28 -
[8] - Quote
This liscence might work if it only extended over 1 gate and could not be used in nullsec or while in a corp under a wardec |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
387
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Posted - 2017.01.08 10:23:17 -
[9] - Quote
+1
so how much would it be? 24 hours, a week, a month? how much $10 for 24 hrs 100+ for a month? add in details because this would be limited to people that is either space rich or have their black credit cards. I could see lots of incursion runners dumping massive amounts of isk so when they run they wont have to worry about a gank fleet getting them insite or on the way.
We need details. and it to be for omegas if CCP is going to cash in on this
Quote:Fek Mercer Posted: 2017.01.08 09:51
This liscence might work if it only extended over 1 gate and could not be used in nullsec or while in a corp under a wardec
Ill take that idea, it could even be limited to empire, but war decs would encourage more people to buy them.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
723
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Posted - 2017.01.08 10:59:56 -
[10] - Quote
Eve is balanced around risk and reward. Reduce the risk for an activity, more people will do it and the value of that activity drops. Increase the risk, fewer people participate and the value rises. That's the essential characteristic of a player driven sandbox.
The closest thing to an invulnerability license is knowledge. I fly billions of ISK around New Eden in Blockade Runners every day. In 3 years, I've been caught 3 times (once in Jita, twice in nullsec). Each time it was my fault - complacency!
I disagree that CCP is hiding the best parts of the game behind a paywall. Alphas can and are, participating and contributing to some of the biggest battles in the games history. It's true they're not flying Titans but it's hard for me to imagine a scenario where you would be willing to spend a year acquiring the character skill and player knowledge to fly a capital ship and not be willing to pay the 35 cents a day CCP wants for a subscription - given that most of that 35 cents will be used to pay the development teams who are making the game better. |
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Kenrailae
mind games. Suddenly Spaceships.
711
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Posted - 2017.01.08 11:23:42 -
[11] - Quote
yeah........ No. All the invulceptors to move mah valuables all over da place!
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27314
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 11:55:08 -
[12] - Quote
A licence that locks you out of PvP would lock you out of every activity in Eve that involves competing with other players, pretty much everything in Eve involves exactly that so nope, not supported.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5157
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 12:46:55 -
[13] - Quote
I think you may be playing the wrong game, friend.
And why would a faction warfare player even ask for this? |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3684
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 12:51:23 -
[14] - Quote
So they can offensively farm without the risk of getting shot at.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5157
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 12:56:44 -
[15] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:So they can offensively farm without the risk of getting shot at.
They do that anyway. |
Hiasa Kite
Brutor tribe Minmatar Republic
443
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 13:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Doable, but the licence would only be active in HiSec and only if you're flying a pod with an empty clone (edit: as in, no ship, just pod flight).
I'm not sure there's much point to such a system.
<^.^> I'm a cat lol
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18310
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 20:03:28 -
[17] - Quote
Emaya Young wrote:Since CCP is making or has made some of the strongest features blocked by a pay wall I thought... "Why not put invulnerability in the mix too". Now, it's not god mode but something else, an invulnerability license. What this does is make players unable to be shot at by other players, but at the same time it locks you out of any pvp actions (player killing, podding, can swapping, warp bubble, etc.) though if you get caught in a warp bubble you will be tortured as anyone does but just won't be shot down. Now, to lessen the chance of abuse, it would be locked to Alphas. This gives each side it's own unique advantage. The Omega pays to get stronger ships and passive isk making while Alphas get an efficient isk making (though less in most cases) and invulnerability to players (npcs will still pulverize you). The point of this is to add (by technicality) a PVE Eve in a way that CCP would like and make the game more fun for alphas that don't like player interaction, etc...
Given the game's player base, I doubt players would approve (Omegas/vets) but this doesn't directly concern them, more so alphas that are new and would like a choice since there is no real PVE Eve. And, players will have to find a new way to harass other players.
Sounds great, can I get a license to cap the price of anything I buy to the NPC cost? I mean I guess it would suck a bit for the industrialist who put all that work into researching, copying, inventing, producing, hauling and marketing those goods, but hey, sucks to be you buddy, I just gave CCP some dollah dollah so all that effort and expertise counts for nothing, you can't touch me lol!
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1549
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 23:20:11 -
[18] - Quote
No. Just no.
I can't believe we actually signed on to help people like you in fac war. I'm going to have to punch Itko in the throat.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20016
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 23:50:51 -
[19] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:No. Just no.
I can't believe we actually signed on to help people like you in fac war. I'm going to have to punch Itko in the throat. why not shoot the op in the face instead (in game obviously).
shiptoatster head hunting can be fun from time to time.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1550
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 00:34:41 -
[20] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Elenahina wrote:No. Just no.
I can't believe we actually signed on to help people like you in fac war. I'm going to have to punch Itko in the throat. why not shoot the op in the face instead (in game obviously). shiptoatster head hunting can be fun from time to time.
We're not supposed to shot people in our militia.
How much would it cost me to have you act as my proxy hunter?
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20028
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 04:14:28 -
[21] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Elenahina wrote:No. Just no.
I can't believe we actually signed on to help people like you in fac war. I'm going to have to punch Itko in the throat. why not shoot the op in the face instead (in game obviously). shiptoatster head hunting can be fun from time to time. We're not supposed to shot people in our militia. How much would it cost me to have you act as my proxy hunter? I'll have a word with the powers that be
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
25
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 06:35:16 -
[22] - Quote
Invulnerability? No. Highsec Pve is already plenty safe for the average player especially if you can find a remote area that is dominated by a friendly corp.
That said there are some things that I would consider to be able to enhance a player's safety when they are prepared. The main one being the ability to 'always bring a gang along with you'. This, sadly is no real option for the vast majority of players that spend most of their online time doing solo activities. But I say if you can't bring real friends then hire them. So I would suggest the possibility of implementing an NPC escort summoning option.
To implement this I would suggest that players with sufficient standings with an NPC faction within the NPC faction's owned space be able to summon an escort. This will cause several escort ships of that faction to warp in/spawn, to accompany and protect the player for a limited time. This would likely be tied to an LP purchased item, perhaps with several grades to depend on length of time and/or strength of ships involved, and will likely only be able to be activated when certain timers are not active against a player. These ships will attempt to follow and accompany you for a designated time, or jump distance from when they are summoned but are incapable of following to another factions space. While escorting they will engage any ship or Rat that attacks anyone within your group. Attacking an escort ship will cause a player to go suspect with some standings hit, but destroying one will cause a larger faction standings hit to the player who summoned them, and so can be worthwhile as a target in themselves. They will also be capable of being warp disrupted to prevent them from following their 'client' on a warp out.
These escort ships would immediately attack anyone who aggresses, and rep you for damage with a response that is faster and more useful than concord and perhaps even warn away or engage harassing players or bump lockers (meaning bump locking teams would likely need to keep log-off timers active on their target to prevent summoning of them after the fact), but the system may be more useful in lowsec or Faction Null to spawn a temporary gang for complexes or baiting tactics.
I don't expect most summoned escorts to be exceptionally powerful, except for super expensive ones, but they will consist of either an armor or shield repper, warp disruption + webs from frigate to cruiser sized ships and likely one type of faction ewar along with the damage from these 4-6 ships.
All of the above is merely a prototype idea though so don't expect all the mechanics and balancing to be perfectly worked out. At it's core it is merely "The ability to Summon/Rent NPC Support Ships" |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3058
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 06:55:21 -
[23] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Invulnerability? No. Highsec Pve is already plenty safe for the average player especially if you can find a remote area that is dominated by a friendly corp.
That said there are some things that I would consider to be able to enhance a player's safety when they are prepared. The main one being the ability to 'always bring a gang along with you'. This, sadly is no real option for the vast majority of players that spend most of their online time doing solo activities. But I say if you can't bring real friends then hire them. So I would suggest the possibility of implementing an NPC escort summoning option. Wait, don't you already get a free, omnipotent NPC response force whenever you are attacked in highsec in the form of CONCORD? What would these NPCs do that CONCORD doesn't already? Would these NPCs-for-hire replace CONCORD?
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20028
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 06:59:23 -
[24] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Invulnerability? No. Highsec Pve is already plenty safe for the average player especially if you can find a remote area that is dominated by a friendly corp.
That said there are some things that I would consider to be able to enhance a player's safety when they are prepared. The main one being the ability to 'always bring a gang along with you'. This, sadly is no real option for the vast majority of players that spend most of their online time doing solo activities. But I say if you can't bring real friends then hire them. So I would suggest the possibility of implementing an NPC escort summoning option.
To implement this I would suggest that players with sufficient standings with an NPC faction within the NPC faction's owned space be able to summon an escort. This will cause several escort ships of that faction to warp in/spawn, to accompany and protect the player for a limited time. This would likely be tied to an LP purchased item, perhaps with several grades to depend on length of time and/or strength of ships involved, and will likely only be able to be activated when certain timers are not active against a player. These ships will attempt to follow and accompany you for a designated time, or jump distance from when they are summoned but are incapable of following to another factions space. While escorting they will engage any ship or Rat that attacks anyone within your group. Attacking an escort ship will cause a player to go suspect with some standings hit, but destroying one will cause a larger faction standings hit to the player who summoned them, and so can be worthwhile as a target in themselves. They will also be capable of being warp disrupted to prevent them from following their 'client' on a warp out.
These escort ships would immediately attack anyone who aggresses, and rep you for damage with a response that is faster and more useful than concord and perhaps even warn away or engage harassing players or bump lockers (meaning bump locking teams would likely need to keep log-off timers active on their target to prevent summoning of them after the fact), but the system may be more useful in lowsec or Faction Null to spawn a temporary gang for complexes or baiting tactics.
I don't expect most summoned escorts to be exceptionally powerful, except for super expensive ones, but they will consist of either an armor or shield repper, warp disruption + webs from frigate to cruiser sized ships and likely one type of faction ewar along with the damage from these 4-6 ships.
All of the above is merely a prototype idea though so don't expect all the mechanics and balancing to be perfectly worked out. At it's core it is merely "The ability to Summon/Rent NPC Support Ships" ... seriously?
NPC mercenaries ...
you realise this is literally what i do for a living right?
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5693
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 07:06:26 -
[25] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Deckel wrote:Invulnerability? No. Highsec Pve is already plenty safe for the average player especially if you can find a remote area that is dominated by a friendly corp.
That said there are some things that I would consider to be able to enhance a player's safety when they are prepared. The main one being the ability to 'always bring a gang along with you'. This, sadly is no real option for the vast majority of players that spend most of their online time doing solo activities. But I say if you can't bring real friends then hire them. So I would suggest the possibility of implementing an NPC escort summoning option. Wait, don't you already get a free, omnipotent NPC response force whenever you are attacked in highsec in the form of CONCORD? What would these NPCs do that CONCORD doesn't already? Would these NPCs-for-hire replace CONCORD?
Replace CONCORD and be even better.
Deckel wrote:These escort ships would immediately attack anyone who aggresses, and rep you for damage with a response that is faster and more useful than concord and perhaps even warn away or engage harassing players or bump lockers (meaning bump locking teams would likely need to keep log-off timers active on their target to prevent summoning of them after the fact), but the system may be more useful in lowsec or Faction Null to spawn a temporary gang for complexes or baiting tactics.
I want something so that after I buy it, when I log in every ship in the game explodes.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5693
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 07:07:56 -
[26] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Deckel wrote:Invulnerability? No. Highsec Pve is already plenty safe for the average player especially if you can find a remote area that is dominated by a friendly corp.
That said there are some things that I would consider to be able to enhance a player's safety when they are prepared. The main one being the ability to 'always bring a gang along with you'. This, sadly is no real option for the vast majority of players that spend most of their online time doing solo activities. But I say if you can't bring real friends then hire them. So I would suggest the possibility of implementing an NPC escort summoning option.
To implement this I would suggest that players with sufficient standings with an NPC faction within the NPC faction's owned space be able to summon an escort. This will cause several escort ships of that faction to warp in/spawn, to accompany and protect the player for a limited time. This would likely be tied to an LP purchased item, perhaps with several grades to depend on length of time and/or strength of ships involved, and will likely only be able to be activated when certain timers are not active against a player. These ships will attempt to follow and accompany you for a designated time, or jump distance from when they are summoned but are incapable of following to another factions space. While escorting they will engage any ship or Rat that attacks anyone within your group. Attacking an escort ship will cause a player to go suspect with some standings hit, but destroying one will cause a larger faction standings hit to the player who summoned them, and so can be worthwhile as a target in themselves. They will also be capable of being warp disrupted to prevent them from following their 'client' on a warp out.
These escort ships would immediately attack anyone who aggresses, and rep you for damage with a response that is faster and more useful than concord and perhaps even warn away or engage harassing players or bump lockers (meaning bump locking teams would likely need to keep log-off timers active on their target to prevent summoning of them after the fact), but the system may be more useful in lowsec or Faction Null to spawn a temporary gang for complexes or baiting tactics.
I don't expect most summoned escorts to be exceptionally powerful, except for super expensive ones, but they will consist of either an armor or shield repper, warp disruption + webs from frigate to cruiser sized ships and likely one type of faction ewar along with the damage from these 4-6 ships.
All of the above is merely a prototype idea though so don't expect all the mechanics and balancing to be perfectly worked out. At it's core it is merely "The ability to Summon/Rent NPC Support Ships" ... seriously? NPC mercenaries ... you realise this is literally what i do for a living right?
Are you able to do more damage and logistics than CONCORD? Well okay, you could out do CONCORD on logistics given they don't do logistics, but how about that DPS huh?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
25
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Posted - 2017.01.09 07:25:05 -
[27] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Are you able to do more damage and logistics than CONCORD? Well okay, you could out do CONCORD on logistics given they don't do logistics, but how about that DPS huh?
Obviously they would do less damage than CONCORD, and likely the most expensive version would also be less than Faction police, but they would already be present and ready with no time delay upon any gank, and so you may have a chance of living or being left alone where before you would die.
Obviously this would never be better than a fleet of experienced pilots but it has a convenience to it which gathering real players will never have. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1555
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 16:26:27 -
[28] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Are you able to do more damage and logistics than CONCORD? Well okay, you could out do CONCORD on logistics given they don't do logistics, but how about that DPS huh?
Obviously they would do less damage than CONCORD, and likely the most expensive version would also be less than Faction police, but they would already be present and ready with no time delay upon any gank, and so you may have a chance of living or being left alone where before you would die. Obviously this would never be better than a fleet of experienced pilots but it has a convenience to it which gathering real players will never have.
Or you could, you know, pay some real players to do the same thing. I'm just spitballing here but I bet you could find some players that would take your ISK to escort your ship around.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3690
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 20:50:41 -
[29] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Invulnerability? No. Highsec Pve is already plenty safe for the average player especially if you can find a remote area that is dominated by a friendly corp.
That said there are some things that I would consider to be able to enhance a player's safety when they are prepared. The main one being the ability to 'always bring a gang along with you'. This, sadly is no real option for the vast majority of players that spend most of their online time doing solo activities. But I say if you can't bring real friends then hire them. So I would suggest the possibility of implementing an NPC escort summoning option.
Pay players.
All this does is make everyone buy pets to maximise power. Name a game where you can have pets/companions but no one uses them?
Seriously....!
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5701
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 22:31:26 -
[30] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Deckel wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Are you able to do more damage and logistics than CONCORD? Well okay, you could out do CONCORD on logistics given they don't do logistics, but how about that DPS huh?
Obviously they would do less damage than CONCORD, and likely the most expensive version would also be less than Faction police, but they would already be present and ready with no time delay upon any gank, and so you may have a chance of living or being left alone where before you would die. Obviously this would never be better than a fleet of experienced pilots but it has a convenience to it which gathering real players will never have. Or you could, you know, pay some real players to do the same thing. I'm just spitballing here but I bet you could find some players that would take your ISK to escort your ship around.
Are you crazy!?!??!?! That might entail...you know...work.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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