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Stefx
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Posted - 2007.04.15 20:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Stefx on 15/04/2007 20:33:53 Hi
There seems to be a flaw in the game
example: A PvP corp declares war to a production corp (non-combat oriented) For a measly 2-4 million a week they "buy" the right to attack them in high sec space. They then ask for a ridiculous ransom or have fun podding those poor miners and traders which are not combat-oriented.
Shouldn't the cost be higher? It's basically an open door to pirating in high sec space.
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Sidster
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.15 23:00:00 -
[2]
Welcome to Eve, it's about PVP :)
A production corp should have a better income than a PVP corp. Consider how that income might be used to your advantage :) |
Leonardo Sabrioski
Caldari Veritas Praetorian Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.15 23:12:00 -
[3]
Merc corps ftw ----------------------------------------------
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.04.15 23:53:00 -
[4]
Ultimately, its up to you to protect yourself here. Think about what you have in terms of assets...
More members than them? More cash? Better personnel in terms of combat experience, SPs, etc...? Connections that you can use?
If you don't defend yourself, people will walk over you in this game. Learn how to defend yourself and you'll be a lot better off in this game, but I'll say this in advance, docking and letting them grief you is the worse thing you can do.
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Karl Chroimcer
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.04.16 00:53:00 -
[5]
I agree with what most of the other posters have said, EVE is a game where if you do not defend yourself people will walk all over you.
You pretty much have 2 options if this happens to you. Stay docked and wait for them to get bored, or fight back. If they take too many losses to make it worth the war dec and losing their own ships, they will probably end the war.
The Aussie Mod |
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Evachece
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Posted - 2007.04.16 01:42:00 -
[6]
cowards way out would be this
1, have everyone in your corp create a second character
2, have those characters join your corp
3, move all the characters you use to a different corp
4, laugh as one of their combat pilots shoots a character you use(one in the new corp) and gets blown up by concord
5, when the wardec is over transfer back to the original corp
repete whenever wardeced
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Synapse Archae
Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.
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Posted - 2007.04.16 02:04:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Synapse Archae on 16/04/2007 02:00:59
Originally by: Evachece cowards way out would be this
1, have everyone in your corp create a second character
2, have those characters join your corp
3, move all the characters you use to a different corp
4, laugh as one of their combat pilots shoots a character you use(one in the new corp) and gets blown up by concord
5, when the wardec is over transfer back to the original corp
repete whenever wardeced
You WILL get banned if you do this. It's considered an exploit of the game mechanics and can (probably will) be petitioned by the corp who attacked you.
- - - These elite slaves are exceptionally well suited for physical labor. |
DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings D-L
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Posted - 2007.04.16 02:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Stefx For a measly 2-4 million a week
War decs cost 50 mil per week. ______________________
Interested? |
scabbsssjr
Gallente M'8'S
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Posted - 2007.04.16 02:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: DubanFP
Originally by: Stefx For a measly 2-4 million a week
War decs cost 50 mil per week.
No, thats when involving alliances. This is corp on corp which is 2.1m last I looked.
I think it should be 10m a week but thats just me. I think the system is working fine when dealing with war decs and who can and can not be decced.
You chose a game that is focused on pvp, who do you think buys all the stuff you sell? ---------------------------
Originally by: Ductoris At this rate I'm going to ask for a BOB sub-forum.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2007.04.16 03:20:00 -
[10]
See sig for answer.
Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
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Takayoru
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Posted - 2007.04.16 05:02:00 -
[11]
Perhaps this does not help the OP, but I would like to post it anyway as this seems like an appropriate place. I'm sure that a mod will correct me if I am wrong.
Many people like to compare EVE to real life. The argument is usually this:
I play MMORPGS to avoid real life issues. When I play a game it is to get away from real life. It is to have fun. EVE is too much like real life. People can cause me harm. I can lose cash. I can die. This is wrong. I am here to play my game and relax.
This is partially true. Except for the relax part. In EVE you can relax in a station, true. But there is more to the issue.
For the most part, EVE is like real life. You can be scammed, robbed, beat up and killed. But that really just comes down to being annoyed, no? It is just a game. If the annoyance of EVE is getting to you, perhaps you have to think outside of your box (so to speak).
In real life you can't hunt down the annoyance and scam, rob, beat up and kill them. In fact, in real life if you annoy someone enough, you can go to jail.
Tagline: In EVE if someone annoys you, annoy them back. Harder.
Thank you for your time...
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.04.16 05:41:00 -
[12]
What it comes down to is there is almost no one to hold your hand here, save CONCORD and sentry guns . I love the fact that the reason I propser and am able to fight as well as I do is a direct result of the time and effort I've put into the game and my character, and because of it I don't fear a lot of things that terrified me when younger.
Yes, you can dock up and avoid it, but it will happen again in the future. Fighting back is liberating in many ways, and its quite fun most of the time tbh .
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Evachece
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Posted - 2007.04.16 07:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Synapse Archae Edited by: Synapse Archae on 16/04/2007 02:00:59
Originally by: Evachece cowards way out would be this
1, have everyone in your corp create a second character
2, have those characters join your corp
3, move all the characters you use to a different corp
4, laugh as one of their combat pilots shoots a character you use(one in the new corp) and gets blown up by concord
5, when the wardec is over transfer back to the original corp
repete whenever wardeced
You WILL get banned if you do this. It's considered an exploit of the game mechanics and can (probably will) be petitioned by the corp who attacked you.
if thats the case it should be taken out of the stickied guide in this forum http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=437508 New CEO under attack guide http://evefiles.mysterious-mysteries.com/eve-online_war_target_guide.html bottom of the page, under Reassignment
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Bashirr Avallon
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.16 07:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: scabbsssjr I think it should be 10m a week but thats just me. I think the system is working fine when dealing with war decs and who can and can not be decced.
Considering that such a noob as me (~20 days of playing) can profit 10 mln ISKs a day (2-3 hours daily on EVE, sometimes less), so even the 10m war dec fee will be just funny and ridiculous. Should be 100m a week - having a war with someone isn't a cheap thing.
Regards --------------- Bashirr Avallon |
Vasiliyan
Gallente Ordnace Research and Development
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Posted - 2007.04.16 08:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Synapse Archae
You WILL get banned if you do this. It's considered an exploit of the game mechanics and can (probably will) be petitioned by the corp who attacked you.
Can you name anyone who's actually been banned in the last year for doing this? --------- Currently offering high-sec POS standings service for 0.5 systems within the Gallente Federation. Evemail me for details. |
Countess NotFarOut2
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Posted - 2007.04.16 08:07:00 -
[16]
Quote: You WILL get banned if you do this. It's considered an exploit of the game mechanics and can (probably will) be petitioned by the corp who attacked you.
And why is this considered an exploit? Is this mentioned somewhere as being an exploit? Seems to me a splendid way of avoiding a wardec. But why even populate your old corp with alts? Just leave the wardec corp and create another. I can't possibly think of reasons why this should be banned.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.16 08:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Synapse Archae Edited by: Synapse Archae on 16/04/2007 02:00:59
Originally by: Evachece cowards way out would be this
1, have everyone in your corp create a second character
2, have those characters join your corp
3, move all the characters you use to a different corp
4, laugh as one of their combat pilots shoots a character you use(one in the new corp) and gets blown up by concord
5, when the wardec is over transfer back to the original corp
repete whenever wardeced
You WILL get banned if you do this. It's considered an exploit of the game mechanics and can (probably will) be petitioned by the corp who attacked you.
To put it right: you will be banned if you do this repeatedly.
Leaving a corp to avoid a war declaration is allowed.
Leaving and rejoining as soon as the waris ended, especially if done often can get you banned.
The same for disbanding a corporation and reforming it under another name.
If a character play the jo-jo leaving a corp as soonas it is war declared and reeentering as soon as the war end it is cleary visible in his employement history, and, if petitioned, will get him a warning or a ban.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2007.04.16 15:47:00 -
[18]
As far as getting banned for leaving/joining corps to avoid wardec, I highly doubt it is bannable.
The corp system is part of the PVP ruleset, which exists to encourage ruthless competition while making sure n00bs can't get griefed.
Think of joining a corp as a pvp on/off toggle.
pvp /on = Join corp pvp /off = Leave corp
The price you pay for chickening out of a war is the 24 hours you have to wait to remove roles, during that time you either stay docked or your arse is legal tender.
The insurance system is the backbone of PVP.
Platinum insurance makes frigate loss insignificant, which means that young corps can afford to field frigate swarms indefinitely.
That is the reality of the Eve PVP system, people think it is harsh, it is not.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.04.16 16:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cipher7 As far as getting banned for leaving/joining corps to avoid wardec, I highly doubt it is bannable.
You're wrong.
If you repeatedly corp-jump to avoid wars, it is an exploit.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio |
Simon Jax
Gallente Freedom Guard Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.16 17:21:00 -
[20]
Wardecs such as this destroy industrial corps. Not because they lose mining barges/haulers. Not because they get camped into a system. Not because they pay exorbitant ransoms. Not because they are harried into and out of stations. Not because they pick up and move to new systems. Not because they pay mercenary corps to take on their aggressors.
It destroys industrial corps because every once in a while the members of the industrial corp fit lasers, missiles and guns on their ships and do their best to fight back. Why does this type of event destroy industrial corps?? Because those that fight back realize how much fun PvP can be and leave their cushy industrial corp to run off and shoot at other players.
Enjoy the fight! Remember that if you take 10 T1 fitted Cruisers and manage to blow up just ONE attacking battleship or HAC youÆve just cost them more than your entire fleet. Many of these PvP corps donÆt expect you to fight back, or expect you to do so ineffectively letting them gank you. Fly together, fight together, and rend holes in their fleets and make them really pay for their unjust aggression. You could make the cost of a war 10, 20 or 50 million isk and it wonÆt hurt the PvP corp as much as the loss of one well fitted battleship. Asking CCP to up the cost of the war wonÆt really help you. You ripping their ships apart will.
Minimize your fleet investment. Field more ships than they can handle. Go for the expensive ships first. Focus your fire on one target. Lose every one of your ships but be the side to walk away laughing. Watch as your corp disintegrates as its members go off to find more people to shoot instead of rocks. Welcome to EVE.
--Wherever you go, there you are.
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Domitianvs
Amarr MCL Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.16 17:22:00 -
[21]
Quote: You're wrong.
If you repeatedly corp-jump to avoid wars, it is an exploit.
How and Why?
Could you please show me what rule states that a person cannot join and leave a corp at their own will? The only one that I know of is the 24 hour cool down period after giving up roles.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.04.16 18:47:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Domitianvs
Quote: You're wrong.
If you repeatedly corp-jump to avoid wars, it is an exploit.
How and Why?
Could you please show me what rule states that a person cannot join and leave a corp at their own will? The only one that I know of is the 24 hour cool down period after giving up roles.
Most "exploits" are not mentioned anywhere in the manual.
Common exploits that you can be banned for include parking a dreadnought outside a station to instabump everyone undocking, or using suicide ships full of bookmarks ("bookmark bombs") to lag out your enemies. Both of these aren't mentioned anywhere, but you can get banned outright for using them.
The reason that constantly disbanding/recreating a corporation to avoid a war is an exploit is because it allows you to get the benefits of a corporation without the risks, since all wars take 24 hours to activate, in which time you can all leave and create a new corporation.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio |
Easy Target
Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.16 19:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Domitianvs
Quote: You're wrong.
If you repeatedly corp-jump to avoid wars, it is an exploit.
How and Why?
Could you please show me what rule states that a person cannot join and leave a corp at their own will? The only one that I know of is the 24 hour cool down period after giving up roles.
Most "exploits" are not mentioned anywhere in the manual.
Common exploits that you can be banned for include parking a dreadnought outside a station to instabump everyone undocking, or using suicide ships full of bookmarks ("bookmark bombs") to lag out your enemies. Both of these aren't mentioned anywhere, but you can get banned outright for using them.
The reason that constantly disbanding/recreating a corporation to avoid a war is an exploit is because it allows you to get the benefits of a corporation without the risks, since all wars take 24 hours to activate, in which time you can all leave and create a new corporation.
Of course it is only an exploit if it can be proved that is what you are doing.
Cleverly named corporations and it gets very very gray... -----------------------------------------------
No i'm not good... but i have never claimed to be -------------------- |
Kevin Poster
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Posted - 2007.04.17 04:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Simon Jax Wardecs such as this destroy industrial corps. [... ...}] It destroys industrial corps because every once in a while the members of the industrial corp fit lasers, missiles and guns on their ships and do their best to fight back. Why does this type of event destroy industrial corps?? Because those that fight back realize how much fun PvP can be and leave their cushy industrial corp to run off and shoot at other players.
So it destroy the combat corps too...Ships dont grow from tritanium seeds, nor respawn after downtime. Mining, manufacturing and trade are part of EVE like combat. And there are a lot of pvp in industry side of game, Im pretty sure the harder and most cruel pvp in EVE is the market. Sure the insdustry corp need to figrh back, but this dont need to be with guns, missiles and drones, there are lots of other options to try.
BTW there are lot of fun to be discovered in Insdustry side of EVE, dont limit yourself to combat to have fun.
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FGxHalsey
Freedom Guard Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:09:00 -
[25]
Edited by: FGxHalsey on 18/04/2007 18:09:02
Originally by: Kevin Poster So it destroy the combat corps too...Ships dont grow from tritanium seeds, nor respawn after downtime. Mining, manufacturing and trade are part of EVE like combat. And there are a lot of pvp in industry side of game, Im pretty sure the harder and most cruel pvp in EVE is the market. Sure the insdustry corp need to figrh back, but this dont need to be with guns, missiles and drones, there are lots of other options to try.
BTW there are lot of fun to be discovered in Insdustry side of EVE, dont limit yourself to combat to have fun.
You don't need to lecture Simon Jax on PvP versus Industry, he is head of industry in a pvp corp. He tries to keep our sorry butts in good ships while getting some fights himself. Truly an amazing fellow.
To the original poster, has it occurred to you that the pvp corp that is harassing you might have been hired by a production corp to eliminate their competition? Just a thought... The only 2 things that limits someone in this game is fear and the depth of their imagination.
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Kevin Poster
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.04.19 05:29:00 -
[26]
Ok, my apologizes if I misundertand Simon Jax. But i think destroy its not the word, maybe evolution. In fact lots of industrial corp need to developt combat capacities and combat corps need some suport form industrial types. I dont disagre with Simon Jax, the change in industrial corp is real. I strongly disagree with Stefx, its not preying most of time (sometimes maybe but not always). Sometimes it can be simbiose or anything between this extremes.
In time,
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Rez Valintine
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Posted - 2007.04.19 12:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Karl Chroimcer I agree with what most of the other posters have said, EVE is a game where if you do not defend yourself people will walk all over you.
You pretty much have 2 options if this happens to you. Stay docked and wait for them to get bored, or fight back. If they take too many losses to make it worth the war dec and losing their own ships, they will probably end the war.
This mentality is why most places are barren.
But you people seem to like that. I for one, regret prepaying 3 months.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.19 13:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Evachece cowards way out would be this
1, have everyone in your corp create a second character
2, have those characters join your corp
3, move all the characters you use to a different corp
4, laugh as one of their combat pilots shoots a character you use(one in the new corp) and gets blown up by concord
5, when the wardec is over transfer back to the original corp
repete whenever wardeced
The main thing that is wrong in that is the 4. If they get shot by concord, it means you changed corp when they were chasing you and you played with the cache update time, and this is the real exploit! They will see you as war target because of cache and when they shoot at what they see as a wartarget, concord comes in and crushes them. I hope people get banned (at least warned and then banned if doing it again) for doing such things.
If you leave your corp before the fights begins, you should not be seen as a war target (at least I hope) and it will not cause any unfair ship loss to the attackers, it's just lame, they paid to fight and there's no one to fight, it's very close to chasing targets that are always docked, you sit in space, not knowing what to do. No one gets banned for being docked in a station and not wanting to fight (it's boring for you too!), as no one gets banned because he was bored of war and joined a player corp.
The real wrong is using the game's cache delays to make the attackers suffer losses by concord. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Flying Vexor and Ishkur, Myrmidon was too slow, got ganked by 3 BC and a Megathron... |
Faust Raajih
Minmatar Omega Mining and Manfacturing
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Posted - 2007.04.19 13:57:00 -
[29]
My suggestion for what it is worth would be two fold: -Hire mercs to defend your corp, If you are strapped for ISK and can't pay a ton now...(If you are low on ISK you might want to think about working harder on keeping the Isk instead of heavily investing it in the corp.)you can do several other ways of payment like building them things they don't have or could use a lot more of. (I.E. Ships, modules, weapons and crap load of Ammo) -Hire another team of Mercs to take the fight to the corp that is warring with you, two prong attacks usually cause confusion and worry, no one is immune to having unknown people popping your ships in multiple areas, and best of all it cost them attacking and defending and that is the beauty of EVE. Oh and another suggestion if you have not already look for other Corps in the same boat and offer alliances, Friends can save your can more than most know.
I judge others by there actions not the items they possess, anyone can get the money to buy a Battleship, it is what you do with it that make the difference! |
Agent Li
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2007.04.19 14:17:00 -
[30]
Since they changed the costs of wardeccing, a lot of this has been nerfed. Not completely, but the tidal wave of wardecs should stop.
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