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Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.04.17 21:24:00 -
[1]
Spoon climbs onto his soapbox in the main atrium, Jita M4 CNAP and clears his throat
"There is no skill in manufacturing / crafting in-game items in Eve. Any skill involved in the whole industrial side of things is in the selling, knowing what to sell and where and for how much
Add to the fact that for both T1 and T2, a large % of stuff will just never get made as it is unprofitable (for various reasons) and it becomes clear that manufacturing is not like other areas of the game. There is a "best" way, and if you don't do stuff that way, you're at a serious disadvantage (not that there is much you can do different in manufacturing).
Compared to say combat pvp, where one setup can counter another, but skills can still win the day, where choosing to train one skill, or fit a particular module over any other makes the difference.
A manufacturer can't choose to make something more cheaply but that module be less reliable. Nor can he make a "better" module by adding this extra ingredient or spending more on worker's wages. And so on
However you look at it, once you have PE V and Industry V, that's pretty much it. Stick minerals in, get item out. No options, no skill"
Khaldari Research Services BPO Shop KPA Recruiting! |
Leonardo Sabrioski
Caldari Veritas Praetorian Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.17 21:32:00 -
[2]
how about the skill of researching bpo? - Invention...?
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jbob2000
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.17 21:35:00 -
[3]
What about acquiring those minerals? Or the money to buy them? ________________________________ KIA Recruitment
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Marowak
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Posted - 2007.04.17 21:39:00 -
[4]
There is alot of skill in production/retail. Just because it doesn't involve rapid reflexes doesn't mean its not there. There's a reason some players have made vast amount of ISK in industry and some haven't gotten anywhere and I'd suggest only a small part of it is luck...
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.17 21:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
A manufacturer can't choose to make something more cheaply but that module be less reliable. Nor can he make a "better" module by adding this extra ingredient or spending more on worker's wages. And so on
Thats not a bad idea, really. Being able to, for example, speed up a manufacture process in exchange for risking a "failure" and completely losing a portion of your production run, with the odds of "failures" being higher the faster you push it.
Similar idea might be being able to include special modification items (not unlike in invention) that could have some positive AND negative effects (aswell as the "failures" thing, you could have modules that make mineral requirements less and time production times longer, and vice versa, for example). --------
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Holden Monaro
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Posted - 2007.04.17 22:14:00 -
[6]
Considering the amount of skilling towards mineral refining etc etc that you need to make a profit efficiently, I'd say theres a lot skill and experstise in all manufactured modules.
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Dao 2
Suicidal-Kushan-Pirates
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Posted - 2007.04.17 22:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dao 2 on 17/04/2007 22:17:30 when I go through the market I do NOT want to see "worn armageddon" or "1400mm +1" and have like 2039029302932 useless different items :| Stuff like that isn't really feasible in eve because you need equipment all the time :| Unlike most other MMOs that you keep that equipment until you sell it ;p Stupid death penalties ;p
edit: "slightly paint scratched tempest" for sale! oh wait no one call tell the difference , PRISTINE TEMPEST FOR SALE! ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
My blog abou |
Haffrage
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.17 22:33:00 -
[8]
There's no skill in pvp either. All it is is F1 F2 F3. There's skill in finding targets and making setups but no actual skill in pvp.
There's no skill in finding targets. All you do is look at the map and scanner over and over. There's skill in making setups for pvp and actual pvp.
There's no skill in selling items. There's skill in acquiring and hauling them, but all you do is reprice and reprice to make sure you have the lowest sell order by .01 isk.
There's no skill in moving items, all you do is train skills and buy ships. There's skill in acquiring and selling, but none in hauling.
There's no skill in acquiring items to sell. All you do is ***** something else to make isk and then buy them.
There's no skill in mission running. All you do is accept a mission and kill one blob at a time.
There's no skill in npcing. All you do is fit a cloak and stabs to your raven.
There's no skill in mining. ...No sarcastic counter-argument.
Etc.
There's no "skill" in any one thing, but there's skill in doing multiple things. If you're getting bored or losing profits because you have people supplying you materials and buying what you build right away at a set rate then kick out a middle man and take up two jobs.
Some things are meant to be simple. Some are meant to be complicated. Taking multiple simple things and doing them all yourself will more than likely make them complicated. -----
Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers |
Kurlieu
Gallente The Ore House
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Posted - 2007.04.17 23:48:00 -
[9]
I do like the idea of things "wearing out", or maybe not being of quite the same quality. Sounds a lot like "Ryzom", which I played on-line for about 6 months a year or so ago. Stuff wears out all the time and you can make whatever quality you want up to your max skill.
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 00:01:00 -
[10]
Manufacturing is just clicking. You don't need to judge when to click or where to click. Just click, click, clickety click.
But given that is what CCP seems to want us to do then I will learn this click, click, clickety click skill. All you industrial corps have been whining at us Privateers about how you do PvP too.
Well, come the Privateer nerf, battle will be joined.
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.04.18 00:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Banana Torres Manufacturing is just clicking. You don't need to judge when to click or where to click. Just click, click, clickety click.
Not just that,, it's a bit of planning and forethought. Items I manufacture regularly rise to lots of profit for me,, and also dip so far as to pulling a loss. Identifying these trends isn't just a case of looking at the market once a day. Logistics and delivery of goods to fulfill contracts, esp when venturing into low sec, is also a big part of indy stuff.
While I agree that actually manufacturing stuff is a fairly simple task (buy bpo, buy/get materials, manufacture) it's not the be all end all of indy.
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Afreeq
Minmatar Freeqs of EVE
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Posted - 2007.04.18 00:28:00 -
[12]
Dont forget that mineral prices dont stay the same either. Like now, better to BUY your Zydrine thane to MINE it.
Granted, once an item is built, its the same. However, the cost and time it takes to make that item is completely up to your dedication and "skill".
I ran a huge industry in SWG, and gathering the best materials, to make the best quality stuff, to put on the market highy confuses and congests the market. That was one swinging economy there.
CCP is smarter than you think. We dont understand the backlash of certain features. Invention is CCPs new way of adding spice to the industry. But having a WCS made from high quality ingredients so that the buyer can have 1.0543 points instead of 1 is not a good way to help our EVEconomy.
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Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.04.18 00:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Leonardo Sabrioski how about the skill of researching bpo? - Invention...?
Originally by: jbob2000 What about acquiring those minerals? Or the money to buy them?
Originally by: Marowak There is alot of skill in production/retail
You guys didn't read the second line:
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
Any skill involved in the whole industrial side of things is in the selling, knowing what to sell and where and for how much
(or alternatively, how much to buy stuff for/etc)
Anyway, not qutie sure what the upshot of my rant was, but I feel the point has been made.
Khaldari Research Services BPO Shop KPA Recruiting! |
Clair Bear
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Posted - 2007.04.18 00:37:00 -
[14]
/me looks at her Prototype 1400mm. "We don't have different quality tech1 goods?"
I do think some game mechanics to procure/produce the items which currently only drop off of NPCs (hello, player driven universe, anyone?) would be an excellent addition.
I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later. Mmmm higher quality tech2 goods...
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.18 00:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Clair Bear /me looks at her Prototype 1400mm. "We don't have different quality tech1 goods?"
I do think some game mechanics to procure/produce the items which currently only drop off of NPCs (hello, player driven universe, anyone?) would be an excellent addition.
I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later. Mmmm higher quality tech2 goods...
Asked to the dev some time ago.
The replye was:
NEVER!
* cut short for empahsis, but that is the core of the reply
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Dao 2
Suicidal-Kushan-Pirates
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Posted - 2007.04.18 01:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Banana Torres Manufacturing is just clicking. You don't need to judge when to click or where to click. Just click, click, clickety click.
But given that is what CCP seems to want us to do then I will learn this click, click, clickety click skill. All you industrial corps have been whining at us Privateers about how you do PvP too.
Well, come the Privateer nerf, battle will be joined.
only something so stupid could come from someone so bitter ;p All any game is is clickign and pressing keys! and for MMOs its pretty much the same damn 8 keys so yeah, its just clicking and pressing buttons! OMG SURPRISE! I never knew :o ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
My blog abou |
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