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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
356
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Posted - 2017.01.15 13:38:51 -
[1] - Quote
EVE should courage more solo play while still allowing group play when time is right. I personally hate forced group play that many MMOs offer. Group play should be optional. When time is right then doors are open... In chat channels I have seen wishes for more solo play options for EVE.
There is structure system that suits also for advanced solo play. You have to put up corporation to use it. If you later want to join in to group play you need to join in to alliance with your corporation or start recruiting people to your corporation. I think putting up full corporation for advanced solo play is very poor option.
I propose one man corporation 1m corporation. 1m corporation... - allows anchoring capsuleer structures. - can be wardecced. - gives extra contract slots. - uses personal bounty for 1m corporation infrastructure. - uses personal wallet for bills. - has 1m corporation description. - is optimal advanced solo play tool with strong risk vs reward system. - allows you to join full corporation when time is right. - allows easy transfer of personal property. - cannot rent corporation offices.
I humbly bring this fruit of thinking for CSM discussion.
edit:
I made similar suggestion to other forum area years ago. Now I offer this idea for CSM discussion.
Mikhem
Link library to EVE music songs.
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Jin'taan
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
105
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Posted - 2017.01.15 14:35:25 -
[2] - Quote
You can already make a one man corporation by making your own corporation and not recruiting anyone.
This gives you almost everything you talk about here. Anchoring structures doesn't have a playercount minimum, you can be wardecced, gives you extra contract slots via the corp contract function, has an extra wallet (with divisions) for you. The only thing missing is the slightly vague 'risk vs reward' and the restrictions you've suggested. |
Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
746
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Posted - 2017.01.16 09:22:22 -
[3] - Quote
I think you'll find most serious industrialists have ALT corps for their industrial characters. Shared hangars is a basic requirement for industrial activity. This does not stop you from being in a larger player organization at the same time - you just need multiple accounts. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3520
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Posted - 2017.01.16 13:30:05 -
[4] - Quote
Mikhem wrote:EVE should courage more solo play while still allowing group play when time is righ
Mate this is an MMO I think your priorities are backward with this
BLOPS Hauler
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Mala Zvitorepka
A.I.R.
2
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Posted - 2017.01.16 14:20:51 -
[5] - Quote
Well, you can get all the advantages you mentioned by being in your own alt corp. The only thing you don't get are restrictions and vague risks you mentioned. And indeed, this is something that could be looked at. But it is hard to make a sensible system here. To have corp cost X/month, which is easy to do, would be either prohibitive for a group of new-ish players, or a trivial and meaningless expense for a serious mission runner that will still prefer his own corp for 0% tax (compared to NPC corp) and safety it provides (compared to corps with more members). |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
277
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Posted - 2017.01.16 23:24:01 -
[6] - Quote
The fundamental core of MMO is the solo player.
From the solo player all growth comes.
Marketing though, has other ideas. Recruit a Friend, Like us on Facebook, forced game design favouring gang, or herd, behaviours. It's like Marketing just found out about social networking, and hasn't really thought about it, because they are just so gosh darn excited. Aren't you excited! Let's all bounce passionately! Passion! Passion! Passion!
Hmmph...
If the Marketing ideas worked, their games would all be fantastically popular.
Basically if you can attract the solo female gamer, your game will thrive. Let the solo players build their own networks, rather than force them into something that feels as icky as speed dating on Tinder for gang bangs.
One man corporations aren't designed for solo players really, it's just a coincidence a solo player can run one. I'm sure a Marketer will try to force some sort of flocking behaviour by requiring five players to start a corporation. Other games do.
I'm convinced that forcing group play drives solo players away. It's as if people think an MMO means you absolutely have to play in groups.
An MMO should allow you the option to play in groups, an option to watch others play their way, an option to be part of a diverse and fascinating variety of game styles.
To be a unique part of a something too large to completely see.
~
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Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3704
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Posted - 2017.01.16 23:54:48 -
[7] - Quote
You also have it backwards.The whole point of an mmo, even back when they were text based, is playing with and against other players.
If the point was to play solo, they wouldn't make an mmo, they'd make fallout 4.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5190
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Posted - 2017.01.17 00:04:57 -
[8] - Quote
I have to ask.
Do you people know what MMO actually stands for? |
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Ventures Apocalypse Now.
53
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Posted - 2017.01.17 21:02:16 -
[9] - Quote
Multiplayer doesn't mean everyone should be forced to group up. Some people just don't like the commitments group play brings, that doesn't mean they don't want to play in a game with other players.
There is nothing wrong with solo play in an MMO so stop acting like there is no room for it. |
Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
36
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Posted - 2017.01.17 21:31:31 -
[10] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:You also have it backwards.The whole point of an mmo, even back when they were text based, is playing with and against other players.
If the point was to play solo, they wouldn't make an mmo, they'd make fallout 4.
I would point out that not being part of a group doesn't in any way prevent playing against other players.
Even if all you do is run a manufacturing corp... you're still competing with other players for the isk of customers.
About the only thing that's really solo in eve (even if you never join a corp) is mission running/ratting... and even then if you sell loot and salvage to the market you're interacting with other players.
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2895
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Posted - 2017.01.17 22:06:53 -
[11] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:I have to ask.
Do you people know what MMO actually stands for? Counter question: Do I have to be in a corp with other people to play with other people? Seriously, your (plural, also including Daichi and Lugh) perspective on "multiplayer" is a tad bit limited. Just an example: I do not want to have any other player in my personal alt's corporation, yet I play, communicate, deal, fight, banter, scheme with other people every day via chats, mails, forums. Furthermore, I just tried that "multiplayer" part in Rivr's corp with a production project and what can I say, I am not overly enthusiastic about doing that again. I could have finished that project with just my alt quicker, with less hassle and when and how I needed things.
Not that I like that idea, Jin'taan has it right; but being against solo-playing just because the game is a multiplayer is ridiculous.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5191
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Posted - 2017.01.17 22:15:04 -
[12] - Quote
I'm not against solo playing, but I do not feel that it should be a priority. There are people in this thread claiming that the game should encourage solo play, and that 'The fundamental core of MMO is the solo player'.
You're actually interacting with people. Mikhem and Hir Miriel (who, in fairness, I suspect is going for a bizarre tumblr-stereotype concern troll) seem to be under the impression that this is intended to be a single player game. |
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
80
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Posted - 2017.01.18 10:20:33 -
[13] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Not that I like that idea, Jin'taan has it right; but being against solo-playing just because the game is a multiplayer is ridiculous.
you'll find a lot of people thinking like that because they assume thats how MMO's are supposed to be played and dont consider the other options that are there. Every aspect of this game in some way ties players to dealing with other players which I could say for every other MMO i've ever played.
if you want to mine, you have to deal with code if you want to mission run, you have to deal with people invading your missions to flip your cans or salvage them. if you want to do planetary interaction, you still have to pay to extract your products to another corporation.
if you get a good drop from a mission / npc / officer spawn and want to sell it for a nice payday due to its rarity, dealing with players is the only option worth considering.
Danika Princip wrote:There are people in this thread claiming that the game should encourage solo play, and that 'The fundamental core of MMO is the solo player'.
I always thought that the fundamental core of an mmo was to attract customers *coughs* players to extract money from them. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3524
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Posted - 2017.01.18 11:05:21 -
[14] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Danika Princip wrote:I have to ask.
Do you people know what MMO actually stands for? Counter question: Do I have to be in a corp with other people to play with other people? Seriously, your (plural, also including Daichi and Lugh) perspective on "multiplayer" is a tad bit limited. Just an example: I do not want to have any other player in my personal alt's corporation, yet I play, communicate, deal, fight, banter, scheme with other people every day via chats, mails, forums. Furthermore, I just tried that "multiplayer" part in Rivr's corp with a production project and what can I say, I am not overly enthusiastic about doing that again. I could have finished that project with just my alt quicker, with less hassle and when and how I needed things. Not that I like that idea, Jin'taan has it right; but being against solo-playing just because the game is a multiplayer is ridiculous.
my point was just about encouraging solo play fist and group whenever
hence priorities backwards
and besides if you are doing all that you are not playing solo
BLOPS Hauler
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3860
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Posted - 2017.01.19 13:17:57 -
[15] - Quote
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:Multiplayer doesn't mean everyone should be forced to group up.
nobody is forcing you to group up...
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2898
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Posted - 2017.01.19 13:33:54 -
[16] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:I have to ask.
Do you people know what MMO actually stands for? Living in a one-player corp (OPC) is not the same as solo gameplay. I have been in a one-player corp for several years because it suits my erratic schedule better than being in a corp with other players, but I hardly consider myself a solo player. It also makes it far easier to move assets and manage industry across my characters than if they were all in separate NPC corps.
To the OP: You can do everything you're describing with the existing corporations with minimal effort. There is absolutely zero need for what you're describing.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
I predicted FAUXs
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
84
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Posted - 2017.01.26 22:24:13 -
[17] - Quote
I am running for CSM XII to represent solo players and micro corporations. Check my campaign thread out.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46706
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Posted - 2017.01.27 00:02:38 -
[18] - Quote
Does that mean you are going to take the OPs proposal to CCP if you win a place on the Council? |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3721
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Posted - 2017.01.27 00:08:57 -
[19] - Quote
At no point has anyone said you are forced to group up, or that they are 'against' solo player. But designing features solely around a player who wants to isolate themselves (especially when such players never stick around for more than a month) is poorly conceived at best.
You can play solo if you want, but special snowflake solo features ONLY accesible by being im a one man corp? Don't be ridiculous.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2911
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Posted - 2017.01.27 03:14:33 -
[20] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:At no point has anyone said you are forced to group up, or that they are 'against' solo player. But designing features solely around a player who wants to isolate themselves (especially when such players never stick around for more than a month) is poorly conceived at best.
Sigh. I know I'm a special ******* snowflake but I've gotten by solo or nearly solo for almost 11 years now.
Having said that? Just make a regular corporation. Seriously. What's the advantage of making some special type that can only have one person in it? |
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
392
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Posted - 2017.01.27 07:28:46 -
[21] - Quote
eve does promote solo play, more so when you use your wallet to run multiple accounts. we have people playing with over 60 accounts because they wanted to solo incursions.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
84
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Posted - 2017.01.27 08:39:40 -
[22] - Quote
Mikhem wrote:EVE should courage more solo play while still allowing group play when time is right. I personally hate forced group play that many MMOs offer. Group play should be optional. When time is right then doors are open... In chat channels I have seen wishes for more solo play options for EVE.
I can absolutely recognize myself in that statement.
I too find that the game is leading new players too much toward larger groups, where I believe Eve is also a great game to play solo.
I have heard many "pundits" stating that they only play Eve because of their friends. I do not. I play Eve because I like the game and its mechanics, its unforgiving nature and single Universe for all players. I find some features and support lacking for solo players. I do have friends in-game, but they are not the reason I continue to play Eve.
Mikhem wrote:There is structure system that suits also for advanced solo play. You have to put up corporation to use it. If you later want to join in to group play you need to join in to alliance with your corporation or start recruiting people to your corporation. I think putting up full corporation for advanced solo play is very poor option.
I propose one man corporation 1m corporation. 1m corporation... 1- allows anchoring capsuleer structures. 2- can be wardecced. 3- gives extra contract slots. 4- uses personal bounty for 1m corporation infrastructure. 5- uses personal wallet for bills. 6- has 1m corporation description. 7- is optimal advanced solo play tool with strong risk vs reward system. 8- allows you to join full corporation when time is right. 9- allows easy transfer of personal property. 10- cannot rent corporation offices.
I humbly bring this fruit of thinking for CSM discussion.
edit:
I made similar suggestion to other forum area years ago. Now I offer this idea for CSM discussion.
It seems to me that 1,2, 6, 8, 9 is covered by current corp rules.
For 2, I would differ. One of the way to grief solo players in their own corp is to wardec them, forcing them to remain in NPC corps with the higher taxes, or to jump corps often. As part of an upcoming wardec much needed overhaul, this is something that needs to be looked at from the solo player perspective.
3. I need more context about what you are asking.. more contracts slots from the maxed out skill a character can have? can these extra contracts be done through other alts, as I believe in using the system of alts fully.
4. bounty system is broken and extending it to corp infrastructures should be second to making the bounty system really work and the amount of bounty paid on someone something else than a joke...
5. why not, but it seems so eady to transfer ISKs from perso to corp. Again, may need more context on your meaning to discuss fiurther.
7. ok, more details needed there. Playing this game solo is the highest risk for the lowest reward if you talk ISK-wise, and highest reward if you talk achievements-wise. All depends on what risk/reward you are talking about...
10. make sense, not much point in renting an office as a solo player, but you can already chose not to rent one.
Unless you are trolling, I hope you can provide more details about what you mean for each of your points.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
84
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Posted - 2017.01.27 08:43:17 -
[23] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:You also have it backwards.The whole point of an mmo, even back when they were text based, is playing with and against other players.
If the point was to play solo, they wouldn't make an mmo, they'd make fallout 4.
Playing solo in a MMO is perfectly legit. Instead of facing dumb AI with predictive results, you face real opponents, sometime dumber than AI sometime not, and is more rewarding because of various players interactions in a sandbox, even if they each play solo.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
6
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Posted - 2017.01.28 16:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:The fundamental core of MMO is the solo player.
From the solo player all growth comes.
Marketing though, has other ideas. Recruit a Friend, Like us on Facebook, forced game design favouring gang, or herd, behaviours. It's like Marketing just found out about social networking, and hasn't really thought about it, because they are just so gosh darn excited. Aren't you excited! Let's all bounce passionately! Passion! Passion! Passion!
Hmmph...
If the Marketing ideas worked, their games would all be fantastically popular.
Basically if you can attract the solo female gamer, your game will thrive. Let the solo players build their own networks, rather than force them into something that feels as icky as speed dating on Tinder for gang bangs.
One man corporations aren't designed for solo players really, it's just a coincidence a solo player can run one. I'm sure a Marketer will try to force some sort of flocking behaviour by requiring five players to start a corporation. Other games do.
I'm convinced that forcing group play drives solo players away. It's as if people think an MMO means you absolutely have to play in groups.
An MMO should allow you the option to play in groups, an option to watch others play their way, an option to be part of a diverse and fascinating variety of game styles.
To be a unique part of a something too large to completely see.
Pro tip you can already do all of that
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
85
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Posted - 2017.01.29 10:08:48 -
[25] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:The fundamental core of MMO is the solo player.
From the solo player all growth comes.
...
To be a unique part of a something too large to completely see.
Absolutely agree, and MMO games should give new players hope that they can achieve something on their own, for those so inclined, regardless of when they join the game.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5793
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Posted - 2017.01.29 10:48:41 -
[26] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:The fundamental core of MMO is the solo player.
From the solo player all growth comes.
Marketing though, has other ideas. Recruit a Friend, Like us on Facebook, forced game design favouring gang, or herd, behaviours. It's like Marketing just found out about social networking, and hasn't really thought about it, because they are just so gosh darn excited. Aren't you excited! Let's all bounce passionately! Passion! Passion! Passion!
Hmmph...
If the Marketing ideas worked, their games would all be fantastically popular.
Basically if you can attract the solo female gamer, your game will thrive. Let the solo players build their own networks, rather than force them into something that feels as icky as speed dating on Tinder for gang bangs.
One man corporations aren't designed for solo players really, it's just a coincidence a solo player can run one. I'm sure a Marketer will try to force some sort of flocking behaviour by requiring five players to start a corporation. Other games do.
I'm convinced that forcing group play drives solo players away. It's as if people think an MMO means you absolutely have to play in groups.
An MMO should allow you the option to play in groups, an option to watch others play their way, an option to be part of a diverse and fascinating variety of game styles.
To be a unique part of a something too large to completely see.
This is a sandbox...do what you want. Of course, if there advantages to working in a group, don't be surprised if you often get the short end of the stick when going up against groups while trying to play solo.
Why are groups going to have advantages? It will let players specialize. A group of 5 players can have players where each one is good at some aspect of game play, both in terms of SP and also skill at playing aspects of the game. With 10 players the advantages become even more stark.
The solo player by contrast has to do everything himself. As such he'll be a jack-of-all-trades but a master of none.
Now maybe some players want to play that way. Fine. Great. God speed. But don't come here whining on the forums like a bunch of brats because the choices you have made are not to your liking. You made a choice...now own them.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
289
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:00:57 -
[27] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:The fundamental core of MMO is the solo player.
From the solo player all growth comes.
...
To be a unique part of a something too large to completely see.
Absolutely agree, and MMO games should give new players hope that they can achieve something on their own, for those so inclined, regardless of when they join the game.
From the more poetic vision of letting people swim, or fish, or picnic, or waterski as they wish in our cyberstream; some game companies want everyone to waterski in groups of five.
Forcing multiplayer, usually along the lines of groups of five people running through dungeons, forces people to group up with pre-existing players or bring in their own group. So to do well in EVE you should bring your own large group to play. I'm guessing this is what the marketers are crossing their fingers for.
And back in the day WoW could force people to run in mobs of 40 to do raids and so forth, much more so than now. Not because players wanted to, but because players were entranced by the imaginary world they were in. They endured the imposition of forced group play, in order to be part of the world.
This forcing of groups limits growth of the game, or network. We see that with Blizzard shrinking the sizes of groups required.
Let's look at another network that grew quite well without forcing people to do things together.
Facebook.
Facebook tied in with Zynga games at that time, such as Farmville, to achieve fantastic growth. Without forcing anyone to do anything as a group. Sure you could recruit friends to Farmville and run around helping each other, but the emphasis was on solo play. I'd hate to guess how many Facebook accounts are "fakes", alts made to play games and so on, Facebook says 80 million or so, about 9%. So we could probably double that.
EVE has quite a history of alt making too, because people prefer to solo.
So we have two models; forced groups playing a certain way, or letting anyone link anyone into a game.
I'd rather we let every individual come and play with some variation in style and be rewarded with some fun.
The more styles that people can play, the better it is for everyone.
Sometimes I think that trying to explain the complexities makes it more incomprehensible, perhaps that's my style of talking. :)
I see these conversations quite a bit on the net, usually they polarize into name-calling; special snowflake, entitled, care-bears, griefers, gankers, scammers, casuals, blobs, and all the usual rest.
Here's how I see it.
People are generally nice and like doing things together. We saw that with Pokemon Go last year. But they don't like being forced, the game becomes like work then.
Everyone should be able to try running their own corporation. It lets them understand the mechanics, and the work involved. And would make them work better as part of another corp; as an ally or as a member.
Having two different styles of corporations, one for solo players and one for group players, isn't really necessary though. But everyone should be able to play solo and achieve their goals.
If nothing else it enables every person to be a CEO, at least once in their life.
And that's fun. :)
~
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Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
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~
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5793
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:14:22 -
[28] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:
From the more poetic vision of letting people swim, or fish, or picnic, or waterski as they wish in our cyberstream; some game companies want everyone to waterski in groups of five.
Forcing multiplayer....
What are you on about? Nobody is forcing anyone into a corp in game. And what is this bizarre fascination with the number 5?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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