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BluOrange
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.23 14:09:00 -
[1]
Agony Unleashed is pleased to advise that one of our students in yesterday's class has made a video recording of highlights from the class. Copies can be accessed using the following hyperlinks (don't try to access these while flying, they aren't suitable for shipboard computers):
Low quality version High Quality Version
Deepest thanks to Carbon Argon, who decided to record his first outing with Agony (I believe it was his first PVP engagement ever) and edited several hours of instruction into an enjoyable short reel. I hope I'll get to fly with him myself at some point.
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End Yourself
Core Domination Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2007.04.23 22:44:00 -
[2]
IBTJen
Btw crazy dual rep rifter setup. /me wonders wether that fits agony standards. And the overview. Holy mess!
--- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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Ecatherina W
Gallente Core Domination Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2007.04.23 23:18:00 -
[3]
End is of course, as always, absolutely right. And those who know me, know that this timid and meek wording is based on the facts that 1) it is awfully late 2) End can whoop my arse in any ship I fly 3) End is right...
The rifter fitting... oh, darn. Speed-tank, dearies, speed-tank. Not dual rep... The overview - it should have shown only hostiles...
But the concept and the fact that we got that Raven remains - and the Rifter got out alive which Carbon Argon must be proud of. He fought, he did his best and he lived to fight again. In this incident, two Domis and a Nighthawk, was also in the battle, on the side of the ... defenders? They docked or warped to a fiercely fighting group of tenacious frigs.
Thank you Agony for making frig fighting an enjoyable passtime. And thank you to Carbon Argon for recording and editing this. Good job!
;-) Kath
***** Ecatherina W ***** Empress of the Multiverse Co-Founder of Dromedary, Goat, Albatross and Fish - the corp that DGAF! Shoot them, loot them and recruit them!
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BluOrange
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.24 05:59:00 -
[4]
Yes, analysis of the video does reveal some errors on the part of our student. It's worth bearing in mind that this was the practical component of the Basic training class and that almost all of the pilots were very new to PVP and to group engagements. There's also a limit to how much information you can expect someone to digest in a theory component that runs for several hours.
The Dominixes in the reel are assisting the faction-fitted Raven that the students are attacking. The Raven kill can be found on the class killboard. Student losses do not appear on the class killboard because they are non-Agony pilots and would therefore show incorrectly as 'kills' rather than 'losses'. We are confident that the value of tech1 frigates lost in this engagement was significantly less than the value of the raven.
Agony has not received notification from Mordus Angels as for the reason for their recent war declaration, but the timing suggests that the Raven loss may have been a factor. Agony has been the target of war declarations in the past and classes will continue as scheduled. Appropriate precautions for student safety while the class is in high-sec have been implemented - since the practical component takes place in 0.0 the war declaration is of limited impact to students anyway.
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Raven DeBlade
Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.04.24 12:15:00 -
[5]
Sad to die to bugs in this game, have been petitoned though, but grats to the "kill" anyway. =)
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" |
BluOrange
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.24 12:37:00 -
[6]
You died to a bug? That sucks. What happened?
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Carbon Argon
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.04.24 13:17:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Carbon Argon on 24/04/2007 14:29:48 -edited- Don't read forums "before" you've had a cigarette :P
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Ecatherina W
Gallente Core Domination Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2007.04.24 14:06:00 -
[8]
Carbon, seriously, End is just pointing out that your fitting is not standard by the way Agony teaches. That being said, I think you made a great movie and you did a good job keeping that Rifter together at that point. I had to warp out twice I think - those Domis and their drones really, really hurt!
;-) Kath
***** Ecatherina W ***** Empress of the Multiverse Co-Founder of Dromedary, Goat, Albatross and Fish - the corp that DGAF! Shoot them, loot them and recruit them!
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End Yourself
Core Domination Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2007.04.24 15:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Carbon Argon I find a few of the things in your post offensive, considering I took the time to create this video with all the best intentions, I did not expect to be flamed for the finer parts of my set-up due to the fact that said set-up was purely based around the kind of video that was going to be taken and to survivability because I had no intention of moving - but I "did" fight and I "did" live, and thats the point.
My post was as constructive as it could get. If you consider that flaming, then sorry. I was trying to help you and others to learn something.
Before you read on and feel offended again let me tell you that there is of course a lot to learn in a short time and "mistakes" will be made by new pilots. As you are new to the subject that is just normal and excused. Beeing ignorant about it and unwilling to listen is NOT.
If you have read my complete post and still think your setup was good then please read the course material (again) and/or consider attending the course a second time. It's free.
Same goes for the "tactic" of "no intention to move" in a rifter. A frigate and especially the rather fast and paper thin rifter either moves or dies.
Or the "point" of "i did fight and i did live". Survival of your own ship must NEVER be the main goal of your setup. The main goal must be to say "i did fight and i did support my gang mates as good as i could for best team performance" later. This is achieved by packing as much of a punch and EW as possible. The midslots/EW of that setup was pretty good btw, the damage output was not. Two out of three of your low slots and ALOT of your powergrid(the repairers) did not help your survival at all btw.
Originally by: Carbon Argon Also, as per your saying "Fitting Agony's standards" - the last I checked, I opted in to this course so that I could actually meet those "Standards" you speak of - thats the whole purpose of the course, "Pvp - Basic".
I said i _wonder_ wether your setup fits agony standards. The smilies and the rest of the post should have indicated i _know_ neither the low slot nor the high slot setup does. And standing still in a frigate does not as well.
Btw great job Agony is doing there, for a very small fee. Can only be recommended! --- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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End Yourself
Core Domination Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2007.04.24 15:25:00 -
[10]
Edited by: End Yourself on 24/04/2007 15:24:47
Originally by: Carbon Argon Edited by: Carbon Argon on 24/04/2007 14:29:48 -edited- Don't read forums "before" you've had a cigarette :P
Hehe, sorry you were tooooo sloooooow still so i allready managed to reply.
/me chucks carbon a coffee
--- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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BluOrange
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.24 15:28:00 -
[11]
I agree - getting a frigate out in one peice when it's being hammered by drones is difficult. There was not much time available to do it!
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BluOrange
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.24 15:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: End Yourself
I said i _wonder_ whether your setup fits agony standards. The smilies and the rest of the post should have indicated i _know_ neither the low slot nor the high slot setup does. And standing still in a frigate does not as well.
To clarify on that point, it doesn't. Our recommendation when fitting frigates is to set them up so they don't get hit, as we see in the video there's near-zero tank possible on a tech1 frigate. So either istabs for maneuverability, or weapon upgrades in the low slots.
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Jazzmine Daze
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Posted - 2007.04.24 15:50:00 -
[13]
I'm downloading the vid now (stupid slow connection here :() Was a good evening overall and I look forward to further classes with Agony.
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TeaDaze
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Posted - 2007.04.24 15:51:00 -
[14]
Mental note, choose correct character again after preview...
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BluOrange
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.25 01:41:00 -
[15]
Some visitors to the Agony infonet have reported difficulty getting the reel to play properly. This guide to video playback formats may help. ------
Agony Unleashed is recruiting. www.agony-unleashed.com |
Carbon Argon
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.04.25 01:42:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Carbon Argon on 25/04/2007 01:39:55
Originally by: End Yourself Edited by: End Yourself on 24/04/2007 15:24:47
Originally by: Carbon Argon Edited by: Carbon Argon on 24/04/2007 14:29:48 -edited- Don't read forums "before" you've had a cigarette :P
Hehe, sorry you were tooooo sloooooow still so i allready managed to reply.
/me chucks carbon a coffee
Ok, in your post you state that I "should" be looking after buddies, helping with ewar etc etc - insinuating that I am greedy and don't think of these things, or simply do not do them.. Which is fasle.
I am actually quite selfless, but then - you don't really know how I work - as you have seen one video, so I can forgive that assertion and I respect where you are coming from.
You also state that speed is my tank, which is 100% obvious next to the color of oranges - but orbiting or spiraling in that case would have made some of the footage I intended on taking near impossible - and that is the "only" reason I semt like a floating log, so again - while you do state the truth - it kind of makes me look stupid in that you also assume I didn't already know that.
I'm no skywalker, not even close - but the only thing i can agree with your post about is my low and high slot fittings, and the only reason they were that way is because i could buy nothing where we were docked before we left (I wanted gyro's and some tech2 turrets but they were all 8+ jumps away) - and yes, thats my problem for not having organised that long before we left - but then - it was 4:00am and I was not thinking straight.
So I do completely understand your point, if I were stupid enough to know no better - but I'm not, and the reason I replied the way I did is because there is nothing worse then being patrionised about the blatant bloody obvious, but then again, I'm a (*puts on ghey voice*) "Sensitive boy" sometimes :P
Thanks for your advice though, I do understand where you are coming from and the motive is appreciated :)
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Vandamsel
Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:18:00 -
[17]
cool vid, but holy ****, that 1st song is so annoying
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Ash Vincetti
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.25 16:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Raven DeBlade Sad to die to bugs in this game, have been petitoned though, but grats to the "kill" anyway. =)
That is too bad. You put up a good fight and lasted a long time. Props to the Rook & Blackbird pilots that were assisting from 150km off, and overall a well executed defense from the troops supporting you. We were curious as to why you weren't docking, especially after seeing what was destroyed. Good luck with the powers that be.
/ash
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.25 17:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: End Yourself
Btw crazy dual rep rifter setup. /me wonders wether that fits agony standards. And the overview. Holy mess!
Agony Unleashed does not advise tanking PvP Tech 1 Frigates participating in a general wolfpack at all and that information is in the enrollement materials. There is a distinction to be drawn, however, between Agony Pilots and a student of PvP who may require more education to understand the futility of tanking a tech one frigate. However, in the end it is your ship and if everyone in your gang ignores the advice of the course then you will get slaughtered.
There are some occasions for taking a specialized tech 1 frigate, such as interceptor hunting known as "fishing" but this ship's setup would not have survived that one either.
Originally by: Ecatherina W
Thank you Agony for making frig fighting an enjoyable passtime. And thank you to Carbon Argon for recording and editing this. Good job!
We thank you for your patronage and being one of many corps requiring our training for membership.
Originally by: Carbon Argon ... said set-up was purely based around the kind of video that was going to be taken and to survivability because I had no intention of moving ...
In actuality, setting up a Rifter to tank in an engagement with heavy ships is like armoring a marshmallow. Filming or not if that raven had precision light missiles and targeted you, you would have gone from 100% to 0% faster than you could turn on the reps. There are only a few specialized instances when you should be tanking a tech 1 frigate or destroyer and all of those are only applicable when you can control the engagement. In most situations when a heavy is able to target and track a tech one frigate, it goes "boom".
There are primarily three ways to survive an attack on your ship. 1) tank the damage -- repair it at least as fast as it comes in. 2) resist the damage -- Make the damage hit you less. 3) Avoid the damage -- use a combination of EWAR, maneuvering to deny tracking and smart engagement to avoid getting hit. A tech one frigate does 1 and 2 very badly but 2 pretty decently. You lived not because the setup ws right but because the EWAR on the target was significant enough to protect you. Like a roman legion, tech one frigates live by working together.
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.25 17:53:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Carbon Argon
ate that I "should" be looking after buddies, helping with ewar etc etc - insinuating that I am greedy and don't think of these things, or simply do not do them.. Which is fasle.
I am actually quite selfless, but then - you don't really know how I work - as you have seen one video, so I can forgive that assertion and I respect where you are coming from.
You simply made a mistake. One that is made by thousands of Eve pilots every day. The first time you get primaried by a HAC in a fight, you iwll learn the futility of the setup and consider other alternatives. You aren't the first to make the mistake and you surely wont be the last. If you learned from it then you gained. This was PVP-BASIC, not PVP-ADVANCED. This was only the start of your Eve PvP adventure. The only question is "did you learn and do you realize how much more you have to learn." None of the experienced AGONY PvP pilots or instructors was born that way.
Originally by: Carbon Argon
You also state that speed is my tank, which is 100% obvious next to the color of oranges - but orbiting or spiraling in that case would have made some of the footage I intended on taking near impossible - and that is the "only" reason I semt like a floating log, so again - while you do state the truth - it kind of makes me look stupid in that you also assume I didn't already know that.
There are some advanced camera tricks you can use to avoid that. The advanced camera menu will allow you to choose the raven himself or another stationary object as the parent for the camera. Enable the advanced camera in the General settings and then ask Rain Finale about some filming tips. he is great at it.
Originally by: Carbon Argon
I'm no skywalker, not even close - but the only thing i can agree with your post about is my low and high slot fittings, and the only reason they were that way is because i could buy nothing where we were docked before we left (I wanted gyro's and some tech2 turrets but they were all 8+ jumps away) - and yes, thats my problem for not having organised that long before we left - but then - it was 4:00am and I was not thinking straight.
We don't advise students use tech 2 on PVP-BASIC either. As for tech one, AGONY has that equipment in station and would have been happy to provide it for you free of charge. When you start out PVP you will get killed A LOT so we advise our pilots to start small. Dont get into cruisers until you have mastered tech one frigs and destroyers and so on. Avoid tech two til you have a good handle on PvP or unless you have 50 billion isk. You WILL lose it alot.
Originally by: Carbon Argon
So I do completely understand your point, if I were stupid enough to know no better - but I'm not, and the reason I replied the way I did is because there is nothing worse then being patrionised about the blatant bloody obvious, but then again, I'm a (*puts on ghey voice*) "Sensitive boy" sometimes :P
Psychological Operations rule number one is don't let your opponents (or perceived opponents) rile you. It will lead to bad decision making and poor problem resolution.
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Ironnight
Caldari x13 Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.26 04:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: BluOrange You died to a bug? That sucks. What happened?
He got killed by a bunch of frigs, must be a bug ;-) -- Please do not use your sig space to troll. -Elmo Pug I didnt! - Ironnight |
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