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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1208
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Posted - 2017.02.06 14:47:52 -
[31] - Quote
=ƒÿƒ
@lunettelulu7
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3077
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Posted - 2017.02.06 14:55:52 -
[32] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:These forums have sucked for the last few years. Nowadays it's not surprising to find numerous threads that have been edited, moved, locked or outright deleted. The devs have basically abandoned any active participation in discussion here other than the occasional token comment or update - the irony of course being that these are the official EVE forums...
No one is really allowed to offer a strong, dissenting opinion anymore. Perish the thought of even offering constructive criticism, because it only takes one adverse misinterpreted comment to have it labelled as a rant and locked. Heck, you can't even post public service announcements without having them moved to a 'more appropriate forum' (read: burried).
So yeah, understandably players have flocked to Reddit which, while containing some gems - is filled with endless memes, killmails and general bullsh*t. That and Twitter, although now God forbid CCP seems to be embracing Facebook.
IB4TL.
Here you get locked/deleted if you have a dissenting opinion. On Reddit, you get downvoted into oblivion. The real result is the same at the end of the day. The only real difference is what is "dissenting" in each forum. |
Salvos Rhoska
2023
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Posted - 2017.02.06 14:59:27 -
[33] - Quote
Shiptoasting has always been shiptoasting.
The internet is already filled with so much useless content that to find a single useful and relevant post you must wade through pages of trash.
Over the years it has reduced my trust and faith in the sophistication and intelligence of humanity to almost nill.
Every idiot seems to think they are funny, informed or otherwise privileged to post their crap on any topic.
Its like swimming in a sea of sewage these days.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
15099
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Posted - 2017.02.06 15:01:33 -
[34] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:These forums have sucked for the last few years. Nowadays it's not surprising to find numerous threads that have been edited, moved, locked or outright deleted. The devs have basically abandoned any active participation in discussion here other than the occasional token comment or update - the irony of course being that these are the official EVE forums...
No one is really allowed to offer a strong, dissenting opinion anymore. Perish the thought of even offering constructive criticism, because it only takes one adverse misinterpreted comment to have it labelled as a rant and locked. Heck, you can't even post public service announcements without having them moved to a 'more appropriate forum' (read: burried).
So yeah, understandably players have flocked to Reddit which, while containing some gems - is filled with endless memes, killmails and general bullsh*t. That and Twitter, although now God forbid CCP seems to be embracing Facebook.
IB4TL. Here you get locked/deleted if you have a dissenting opinion. On Reddit, you get downvoted into oblivion. The real result is the same at the end of the day. The only real difference is what is "dissenting" in each forum.
That has not been my personal experience, I 'dissent' all the time there like I did here, generally you don't get downvoted unless your an a-hole about it.
Reddit offers way more freedom than this place does, so in an odd way, r/EVE is closer to the game than this place is, because EVE is ultimately a game about Freedom of action and choice and yet it's forum rules are very strict and unforgiving.
At Reddit we can be ourselves (warts and all), in a way we haven't been able to here for a long time. |
Salvos Rhoska
2023
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Posted - 2017.02.06 15:04:26 -
[35] - Quote
Reddit is the worst cesspool of cancer and useless comments.
Thats not even considering the partisan up/down voting, as well as willful moderation bias.
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Kaleb Mynwarra
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.02.06 16:15:44 -
[36] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Reddit is the worst cesspool of cancer and useless comments.
Thats not even considering the partisan up/down voting, as well as willful moderation bias.
Maybe its because Im a Finn from a different cultural background renowned for speaking only when you actually have something meaningful to say, with an abject contempt for bullcrap and empty nothings.
The forum rules here largely only require being ontopic, relevant, not to insult/disrespect others offhandedly for no purpose, and not to waste everyones time with crap. Not only are those not much to ask, they keep the board clear of trash and cancer, and is conducive to civil discourse as it is supposed to be.
Crap-posters spreading their sewage across the internet cos they think they are funny, witty, or have an opinion on everything, making pointless noise can all burn for all I care. Good riddance
I could agree with some of what you're saying but only some. True there's no place for vitriolic comments drenched in real world sexism, racism, and religious intolerance. That said I don't think you or I have power to proclaim what is and isn't funny or what is and isn't trivial or what is and isn't relevant. There's a myriad of subjects people find humorous, interesting, and compelling that I personally don't have any affinity towards. That said I don't think I've a place demanding that those topics be barred simply because I don't like them. As much as I liked what the forums were back in the day I passed by tons of posts that didn't interest me. Same can be said about many of the post today. As the old saying goes "youre either a Beatles fan or an Elvis fan but you can't be both" .
Btw my better half is Finnish American and I'm Swedish American . |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
15100
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Posted - 2017.02.06 16:22:37 -
[37] - Quote
We aren't really talking about why anyone personally likes or dislikes something. We're talking about why one (which is external) seems to be the more alive, vibrant and popular option (not just for the players but many times for the DEVs themselves) compared to the other (this place, owned by the game company itself).
Reddit has a EVE fitting section that has no drama at all, I've gotten better fitting ideas there than I have in the Ships and Modules section of these forums. News about changes/devblogs etc forEVE pops up in ONE PLACE on Reddit, on these forums I have to hunt for them. And so on.
We can react in partisan "but Im a EVE Forum poster!" fashion or we can understand why their seems to have been a shift in preference. But we can't do both lol. |
Kaleb Mynwarra
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.02.06 16:30:35 -
[38] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:We aren't really talking about why anyone personally likes or dislikes something. We're talking about why one (which is external) seems to be the more alive, vibrant and popular option (not just for the players but many times for the DEVs themselves) compared to the other (this place, owned by the game company itself).
Reddit has a EVE fitting section that has no drama at all, I've gotten better fitting ideas there than I have in the Ships and Modules section of these forums. News about changes/devblogs etc forEVE pops up in ONE PLACE on Reddit, on these forums I have to hunt for them. And so on.
We can react in partisan "but Im a EVE Forum poster!" fashion or we can understand why their seems to have been a shift in preference. But we can't do both lol.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that you're suggesting that the lack of 'vibrancy' here is in some part due to players preferring Reddit over Eve forums ?
As I've stated, I'm new to playing, but aren't there specific threads on the Eve forums for topics like ship fitting?
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Salvos Rhoska
2024
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Posted - 2017.02.06 16:36:22 -
[39] - Quote
The difference is between useful content, and useless content.
Rules are there to encourage the former, and remove the latter.
Reddit boards are partisan, systemically, by Up/down voting and attacking content with crap. Unrepresentative/noncommitted moderators exhibit bias frequently.
Here, on this board, moderators are required to remain non-partisan. Rules here enforce constructive discussion.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5313
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Posted - 2017.02.06 16:58:05 -
[40] - Quote
If the devs made a concerted effort to get involved with these forums it would really change things. Honestly, it wouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes every few days...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Kaleb Mynwarra
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.02.06 16:59:43 -
[41] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The difference is between useful content, and useless content.
Rules are there to encourage the former, and remove the latter.
Reddit boards are partisan, systemically, by Up/down voting and attacking content with crap. Unrepresentative/noncommitted moderators exhibit bias frequently.
Here, on this board, moderators are required to remain non-partisan. Rules here enforce constructive discussion.
I believe someone said that many of the moderators are also players. If true there's legitimacy in the claim that moderator bias could influence what's deemed acceptable and what's not. Of course I've no real proof that has happened just pointing that it could be possible. Given the fact that Eve has officially responded to posts made on other forums suggests that they've some issues communicating with their player base on their own moderated boards.
I appreciate your input though |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
15102
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:13:34 -
[42] - Quote
It just struck me that these forums are a cautionary tale for the game itself.
For YEARS people complained about how nasty these forums were, how "Toxic" it was, and for the need for the powers that be to do something.
Well they did, and we get forum posts like this asking where the fun with, and other posts complaining about Reddit and Twitter and the rest.
For YEARS people complained that EVE was too harsh and unforgiving, and filled with "Toxic" people and how there was a need for the powers that be to do something...
Anyone else seeing a pattern?
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Salvos Rhoska
2024
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:19:14 -
[43] - Quote
Reddit is:
-An anonymous format, unlike this board. -Less moderated, or partisan moderated, or community moderated by up/down vote, all of which are attractive to shiptoasters. -As anonymous, does not involve repercussions for posts that might have consequences here. -Populist, so groups can up/down vote antagonists/friends. -Mods are not held to the same restrictions/controls as here.
TLDR: Reddit allows for shiptoasting without identification or repercussions, biasing discussion with up/down voting, and biased moderation.
I dont see any of those as a good thing. Hence, I stay here.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5314
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:19:15 -
[44] - Quote
Yeah. You might get away with a handful of errant posts or threads, but CONCORD eventually sweeps in and clears the field. This isn't so much about the EVE Forums vs. EVE Reddit than it is the devs having more or less abandoned these forums.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Salvos Rhoska
2027
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:31:14 -
[45] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:This isn't so much about the EVE Forums vs. EVE Reddit than it is the devs having more or less abandoned these forums.
This is a problem.
Devs should be here, not on a 3rd party format. Especially when that third party platform involves partisan up/down voting, anonymity, shiptoasting that is not allowed by CCP here, and currying favor with biased moderators.
Basically players have managed to extricate Devs off the official moderated sanctioned and ruled board bound by TOS/EULA and the Devs own contracts, to a 3rd party system, for purposes of influencing said Devs.
Its like AWOX of CCP Devs to a 3rd party platform. Im sure the community there provides "incentives", but its for their own purpose of pissing in their ear on a separated system.
Players love to subvert Devs. Considering Reddits format compared to here, that is exactly ehy they are doing so. To draw them to a format where neither they, nor the Devs, are restricted by the constraints (which exist for good reason) here.
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1208
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:45:33 -
[46] - Quote
CCP needs both forums for different reasons, most importantly being able to talk out of both sides of their mouth.
I've only ever seen moderation truly be questionable once here but that's thread-lock-talk so :zip:
I think the others are right, giving the average sociopathic Eve Online player an anonymous soapbox to spew their beliefs and just in base design, threads can derail within threads and those discussions are easily closed if you're not interested in the usual highsec tough talk or semantics or nullsec F1.
@lunettelulu7
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5314
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:49:39 -
[47] - Quote
Yes, but there's a block feature that is easily utilized.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Salvos Rhoska
2028
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:50:49 -
[48] - Quote
The Reddit access avenue is a means to extricate Devs from the (necessary and rational) restrictions of this board.
Its a way for players to subvert and influence Devs on a 3rd party platform without the requirements of identification or rules present here.
They tempt the Devs out with candy, invite them into their Reddit truck so to have their way with them.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5314
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Posted - 2017.02.06 18:26:06 -
[49] - Quote
Not that I necessarily agree, but I enjoyed the analogy.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
766
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Posted - 2017.02.06 20:01:34 -
[50] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sweet Adamas wrote:1. Remember when mintchiplol was made a Dev. I wasn't playing EVE at the time, but I did read quite about it afterwards... but you're right. A lot of the good-natured jabs and poking fun at others' expense just wouldn't happen now. Stick meet a**... CCP went overboard with the bans over that topic. You'd get a permanent forum ban for even mentioning mintchip. People obviously don't want to get their characters banned, and so I guess the moderation has had a freezing effect on the forums.
Personally I'd just say as long as you are not inciting violence or generally being offensive for the sake of being offensive, then you should be allowed to post whatever you want (as long as it is in the relevant thread/section).
Also what is the BS with not being able to link KMs.
Still the forums are better that reddit which is just full of absolute rubbish apart from a couple of good posts. And anything controversial or against the groupthink will get downvoted into oblivion.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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CCP Falcon
13570
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Posted - 2017.02.06 21:31:53 -
[51] - Quote
Hey Guys
Thanks for the comments, it's nice to know there's still a sizeable amount of people who care about the health of the forums, for sure.
We're actually in the middle of testing an entirely new forum system with the assistance of our Volunteer team, and we'll more than likely be looking to roll it out somewhere toward the summer
The rollout of these forums is going to include a complete rewrite of the forum rules (relaxing quite a few of them), re-organizing our forum categories and the introduction of a new mandate for ISD in terms of how moderation is carried out, as well as a few other things that the community team will be blogging about in the not too distant future (more than likely soon after Fanfest, which happens in April).
The idea will be to promote more open and direct (but civil) discussion, and give the community a more relaxed place to talk about spaceships
We'll have more information in the near future <3
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Ilan Ardishapur
Purity of the Throne
24
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Posted - 2017.02.06 21:35:05 -
[52] - Quote
Great news. Though I hope you don't lax the IGS rules to much. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5321
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Posted - 2017.02.06 21:35:30 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We'll have more information in the near future <3 Will we be seeing more of the friendly, smiling devs from CCP?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Julianni Avala
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
109
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Posted - 2017.02.06 21:36:49 -
[54] - Quote
Ilan Ardishapur wrote:Great news. Though I hope you don't lax the IGS rules to much.
This. It would be a shame to see doors opened to more of a mess than can already sometimes happen in IGS, even with current rules in place. |
Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46797
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Posted - 2017.02.06 21:37:34 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We'll have more information in the near future <3 Is this a Soon(TM) thing?
Just joking. Thanks for the post. Looking forward to seeing what rolls out. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1424
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Posted - 2017.02.06 21:38:54 -
[56] - Quote
That doesn't sound terrible. I will patiently be waiting to verbally rip it to pieces once it's there. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
574
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Posted - 2017.02.06 21:55:06 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: near future <3
Thanks make the forums great again
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Kaleb Mynwarra
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.02.06 22:19:01 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey Guys Thanks for the comments, it's nice to know there's still a sizeable amount of people who care about the health of the forums, for sure. We're actually in the middle of testing an entirely new forum system with the assistance of our Volunteer team, and we'll more than likely be looking to roll it out somewhere toward the summer The rollout of these forums is going to include a complete rewrite of the forum rules (relaxing quite a few of them), re-organizing our forum categories and the introduction of a new mandate for ISD in terms of how moderation is carried out, as well as a few other things that the community team will be blogging about in the not too distant future (more than likely soon after Fanfest, which happens in April). The idea will be to promote more open and direct (but civil) discussion, and give the community a more relaxed place to talk about spaceships We'll have more information in the near future <3
Thanks for the fast update Falcon ! Never would have expected such a fast response . I'll be looking out for the changes :) |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
389
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Posted - 2017.02.06 23:18:02 -
[59] - Quote
What really makes a forum fun is the differences of opinion that get exposed and argued out. Whatever moderation the new forums have, they should be open to potentially heated discussions where opinions clash. Eve has always been a world where different player groups come into conflict. I'd suggest dropping the shop front mentality in favour of a break room / coffee corner type vibe.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Leahzon
University of Caille Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2017.02.07 02:30:13 -
[60] - Quote
It's kind of hard to have real discussions when most of the threads end up locked in a matter of hours. I think the discussion has shifted to other sites.
To put some perspective into the thread locking epidemic, last night almost a third of the non-sticky threads on the first page of General Discussion were locked. |
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