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Yukiyo
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Posted - 2008.01.26 03:26:00 -
[31]
I like the idea of this a lot. I think the subject of the killright should be notified if someone has 'bought' the kill right though.
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Mic Grarob
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Posted - 2008.01.30 15:07:00 -
[32]
I typed this up before reading this thread. Most of what follows has already been suggested and dismissed as exploitable. Sorry if that annoys you.
Anyways...
What I would like to see is a section in the bounty window for players who have received kill rights to place a 'lawful' bounty. In this window the player may assign kill rights to either a player, a corporation or an alliance. They may only choose one. There is a flat rate charge based on the targets security status payable to CONCORD.
The issuing player may also assign isk to the bounty but this is optional. Any isk assigned to a bounty is immediately held by CONCORD once a party accepts the contract. If the kill rights expire before the bounty is collected then any isk assigned is lost (CONCORD thanks you for you kind donation).
If contracting to a corporation or an alliance then the receiving organisation head must assign the kill rights to a specific player (who has the right to refuse) within the organisation in their acceptance of the bounty contract.
Once a contract is accepted, the issuing party transfers the kill rights. ie. the issuer no longer has kill rights. Again this is only if the contract is accepted.
On fulfilling a contract the assigned hunter will recieve any bounty payable less tax from the organisation who accepeted the contract. This tax is assigned at the time of accepting the contract and before an organisation assigns a bounty hunter. The bounty is free of an organisations normal taxation.
The bounty target and bounty hunter will see each other as if at war in the overview. CONCORD will not interveen, regardless of who shoots first.
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The next bit im not so sure about, it could be abused to start 'war decs' on the cheap.
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A contracted bounty hunter may form a gank fleet. Only members in the same squadron as the bounty hunter will receive kill rights while part of the fleet. Squadron members will appear to bounty target as if at war in the overview. CONCORD will not intervene, regardless of who shoots first. All isk received from a bounty is distributed evenly between members of the squadron. Isk received may be taxed by the organisation who accepted the contract.
If the bounty target is in a fleet only the bounty target may be attacked. If any members of the bounty target's fleet choose to assist the target then all members within that squadron will appear to the bounty hunter and bounty hunters squadron as if at war in the overview. CONCORD will not intervene as long as the bounty target's fleet fired first.
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Aw hell that went on a lot longer than i intended. Sorry. |
Sloth Arnini
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
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Posted - 2008.02.28 00:00:00 -
[33]
Kill rights as they stand are more or less useless. A lot of the time, the character who gets suicide ganked or blown away in lowsec canÆt do anything about it. TheyÆre either newbies, industrial alts or full time carebears with no PVP experience. In short, the people who receive kill rights are in no position to exploit them. One general change is that kill rights should remain useable for the entire month, no matter how many times the subject of those kill rights gets blown away (I think killrights currently expire when the target loses their ship, though IÆm not 100% on that). Pods should also be destroyable under killrights. The person who has killrights on a player should not be made known to that player. ItÆs one thing to have your T1, insured gank Brutix destroyed, quite another to risk implants (although most people will have implant-less jump clones when serious about suicide ganking).
On the other hand, there are many people who very rarely receive killrights, but are quite able to exploit them. One section of the EVE community can get hold of a resource that another part would like to have. If game mechanics did not intervene, kill rights would have been traded long ago. Transferable kill rights would have one immeasurably beneficial effect and would not adversely affect other parts of the game.
Bounty hunting would become a viable trade. People engaging in non-Concord sanctioned violence now have to watch their backs wherever they are. The shuttle and hauler gankers might get scared, the serious PVPers will relish the challenge. Pirates could be hunted without security status hits, suicide gankers could be effectively hunted full stop.
Transferable killrights offer a means for honest industrialists to get revenge, but do not unduly protect idiots. Stupid People Need Killing. An afk hauler pilot with a hold full of expensive goodies DESERVES to be killed. If you want to move valuable stuff around, take precautions. Guess what? I take precautions and have never been suicide ganked. There is a simple cause and effect chain there. If youÆre worried about suicide ganks on your Hulk, why should you think you can get away with cargo expanders for that extra 20% capacity? Tank the Hulk and suddenly become more resistant to opportunistic ganks. You canÆt have your cake and eat it. A PVPer canÆt tank, tackle, ewar and gank all at the same time, they have to make decisions. ItÆs only fair that a miner/hauler should have to make similar decisions about whether they should maximise their mining efficiency, or maximise their resistance to ganks.
But enough fluff about why transferable kill rights should be added, letÆs consider a mechanism. Note that I do not intend to make it scam proof. Scams are part of what makes EVE great and smart people should be able to use their intelligence to get the better of stupid or inattentive people. ItÆs great that a significant portion of the game doesnÆt require a massive investment in skill points. Anyway, on to my thoughts...
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Sloth Arnini
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
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Posted - 2008.02.28 00:02:00 -
[34]
A player gets their ship destroyed, they get killrights but canÆt make use of them. They then create a contract, offering a certain price for the destruction of their ganker (possibly including a bonus for terminating the pod as well). This price may be paid out each time the hostile is destroyed while the killrights are active, or just once. The bounty contract is free to create. This bounty contract can take two forms: it can be issued to an individual or to a corp/alliance and they can be public or private.
Contracts issued to individuals work as follows: a bounty hunter takes the contract, gains the kill rights, and when they destroy the target, they receive the reward. The public contract terminates when the accepting pilot eliminates the enemy once. However, the kill rights are then transferred back to the original owner, and can freely be reissued. Conditions can also be added e.g. ôtarget must be destroyed within 7 daysö, which would prevent an alt of the ganker taking the contract and holding it so that legitimate bounty hunters cannot execute the contract. It is also of course made impossible for the person on whom the kill contract has been issued to claim that contract. The biggest issue with transferable killrights is the possibility for an alt of the ganker to claim the contract and then execute the subject. To combat this, the creator of the kill contract can decide whether or not to release the bounty money when the target has been killed. They also have the right to withdraw the contract at any time if they are unsatisfied with the bounty hunter. If they suspect collusion between bounty hunter and target (e.g. the bounty hunter is a two day old char and the target a 3 year old veteran), they can withhold the cash. However, if the bounty contract issuer repeatedly withholds cash when the contract is fulfilled, this shows up on the record.
Transferable killrights need a global database to function. On this database, one can examine the contract record of bounty hunters and bounty issuers. It includes information such as whether payment was withheld, and from whom the bounty issuer withheld the reward, so that other hunters can decide whether the issuer was trying to get free work, or whether he simply suspected collusion. On the bounty hunterÆs side, the successfully and unsuccessfully completed contracts are recorded. This allows the bounty issuer to judge whether the hunter who took their contract was likely to succeed, and so allow an informed decision on whether or not to withdraw the contract. The database also provides information on the subject of the kill right, in particular how many successful and unsuccessful attempts were made to claim the bounty. This allows the bounty hunter to estimate how likely he is to score the kill, and allow him to make an informed judgement on whether the bounty offered is worth the effort.
An example: a contract was issued by Ian requesting the termination of George. Bob took up the contract. Ian studied BobÆs bounty hunting record, and discovered that he had killed George many times and had never killed anyone else. Ian withdraws the contract, because he believes Bob is colluding with George.
Private individual contracts are obviously offered directly to a named bounty hunter. These might include payments for multiple terminations, and contracts both successfully and unsuccessfully completed can be made public at the discretion of the hunter. Obviously making your record public has advantages for advertising purposes, but if a person is transferring killrights from alts to mains, they may not want that known.
Continued...
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Sloth Arnini
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
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Posted - 2008.02.28 00:03:00 -
[35]
Public corporate contracts work in much the same way as public individual contracts, with the same information presented in the bounty database and the same conditions for contract completion, save that the recipients are obviously a corporation rather than an individual, and so any member of that corporation can claim the bounty, or several of them can split it. Bounty hunting corporations should have the opportunity to decide whether bounties are deposited straight into corp wallet, for later distribution or for general corporate purposes, or whether the bounty is divided amongst the bounty hunters who scored the kill.
Private corporate contracts are issued direct to individual corporations and work in much the same way as private individual contracts.
This has been a long read, but I feel my idea offers a comprehensive way of allowing kill rights to be transferred to people who can use them, whilst at the same time, the obvious abuses of the system are prevented. Idiots are still not protected, the system is challenging and requires intelligence to use, and there is a lot of information to weigh up, but EVE needs more intellectual stimulation, not less.
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Cyphr Sonic
Caldari
The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:33:00 -
[36]
Warning LONG Wall of text (it has some windows though )
Currently the bounty system is fatally flawed. At the moment it provides no real way to be a bounty hunter as a profession as you still take security hits for attempting to claim the bounty. After some thought and some discussion on IRC, some friends and I came up with a system that could be much better than the current system. This system would revolve around trading kill rights via an auction system as outlined below.
Auctions to bid for kill rights:
This system will replace the current bounty system with an auction type that strips the kill rights from the victim and transfer them to the bounty hunter. Unlike other systems this system bids DOWN essentially having the victim specify how much their revenge is worth to themselves.
Example: Miner A gets killed by Pirate B. at this point Miner A now has kill rights on Pirate B. Miner A posts an auction for his kill rights in the contract system setting a max price of 100 mil Isk. Bounty Hunter C bids 50 mil Isk and Hunter D bids 25mil Isk. At this point the bids are presented to the Miner A, who then decides who to award his contract to. This prevents people from accidentally awarding a Carrier kill to a 2 week old pilot in a destroyer. In this case letÆs say BH D is in the same corp as Pirate B this would let the Miner notice the fact they probably are just going to cash in for another 25 mil so he awards it to BH C instead. (it costs him more but it means he will actually get his revenge)
At this point BH C has to deposit fifty mil as collateral in case he does not actually kill the pirate. In return kill rights are transferred to him and he can attack B without consequence. If C manages to pop B he receives his collateral back as well as his bid of 50 mil form the miner. All in all miner paid 50 mil to D to kill B. (have I lost you yet it gets more complicated from here)
In essence this system is a reverse auction that allows you to simply buy kill rights. I also propose corps be allowed to purchase the rights for an entire corp. This will allow ant pirate corps to become viable û something the current system does not allow. However I suggest a percent of the award be taxed by concord. If a corp kills the pirate then the bounty goes to the corp wallet so it may be doled out appropriately by the corp owners.
ThereÆs my idea IÆm sorry itÆs a text wall. As a side note it would be cool if when pirate was killed it told him who the bounty hunter both the kill rights on, if only to upset him.
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Peter Powers
Master Miners
Intruders.
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:40:00 -
[37]
Cyphr Sonic: thats a good roundup of the idea we where talking about in the eve-radio chat.
/signed by a pirate - as promised
I love CCP Morpheus<3 xXx CCP Morpheus xXx <3
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Aneroi
Amarr
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:40:00 -
[38]
 Originally by: Cyphr Sonic
Warning LONG Wall of text (it has some windows though )
Currently the bounty system is fatally flawed. At the moment it provides no real way to be a bounty hunter as a profession as you still take security hits for attempting to claim the bounty. After some thought and some discussion on IRC, some friends and I came up with a system that could be much better than the current system. This system would revolve around trading kill rights via an auction system as outlined below.
Auctions to bid for kill rights:
This system will replace the current bounty system with an auction type that strips the kill rights from the victim and transfer them to the bounty hunter. Unlike other systems this system bids DOWN essentially having the victim specify how much their revenge is worth to themselves.
Example: Miner A gets killed by Pirate B. at this point Miner A now has kill rights on Pirate B. Miner A posts an auction for his kill rights in the contract system setting a max price of 100 mil Isk. Bounty Hunter C bids 50 mil Isk and Hunter D bids 25mil Isk. At this point the bids are presented to the Miner A, who then decides who to award his contract to. This prevents people from accidentally awarding a Carrier kill to a 2 week old pilot in a destroyer. In this case letÆs say BH D is in the same corp as Pirate B this would let the Miner notice the fact they probably are just going to cash in for another 25 mil so he awards it to BH C instead. (it costs him more but it means he will actually get his revenge)
At this point BH C has to deposit fifty mil as collateral in case he does not actually kill the pirate. In return kill rights are transferred to him and he can attack B without consequence. If C manages to pop B he receives his collateral back as well as his bid of 50 mil form the miner. All in all miner paid 50 mil to D to kill B. (have I lost you yet it gets more complicated from here)
In essence this system is a reverse auction that allows you to simply buy kill rights.
/signed
Originally by: Cyphr Sonic
I also propose corps be allowed to purchase the rights for an entire corp. This will allow ant pirate corps to become viable û something the current system does not allow. However I suggest a percent of the award be taxed by concord. If a corp kills the pirate then the bounty goes to the corp wallet so it may be doled out appropriately by the corp owners.
ThereÆs my idea IÆm sorry itÆs a text wall. As a side note it would be cool if when pirate was killed it told him who the bounty hunter both the kill rights on, if only to upset him.
Ever heard of mercenaries? this is the exact same thing.
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Cyphr Sonic
Caldari
The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:41:00 -
[39]
^ yes mercs are the same thing however even then they sec hits in essence this allows them to bypass concord sec hits by allowing them to be considered contracted - essentially the same yes but makes it more viable to do high sec merc corps/anti pirate corps.
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Peter Powers
Master Miners
Intruders.
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:44:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Aneroi
Originally by: Cyphr Sonic
I also propose corps be allowed to purchase the rights for an entire corp. This will allow ant pirate corps to become viable û something the current system does not allow. However I suggest a percent of the award be taxed by concord. If a corp kills the pirate then the bounty goes to the corp wallet so it may be doled out appropriately by the corp owners.
ThereÆs my idea IÆm sorry itÆs a text wall. As a side note it would be cool if when pirate was killed it told him who the bounty hunter both the kill rights on, if only to upset him.
Ever heard of mercenaries? this is the exact same thing.
i think you missunderstood the idea - the idea is that a contract can be taken not only by an individual but also by a corp, not that you get a cheap wardec on the whole pirate corp - but you get a killright which everyone of the hunter-corp could use to hunt him down.
that way pirate hunters could work in gangs (cause pirates do aswell :)
I love CCP Morpheus<3 xXx CCP Morpheus xXx <3
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Cyphr Sonic
Caldari
The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:48:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Peter Powers
Ever heard of mercenaries? this is the exact same thing.
i think you missunderstood the idea - the idea is that a contract can be taken not only by an individual but also by a corp, not that you get a cheap wardec on the whole pirate corp - but you get a killright which everyone of the hunter-corp could use to hunt him down.
that way pirate hunters could work in gangs (cause pirates do aswell :)
peters got it if you only let solo hunters buy it a pirate whos always part of gang will never be taken down which changes the eve pirate scene from solo to group pirating. by allowing a corp or even just a gang to take the bounty then you prevent this from becoming a problem as they can gang up on the kill rights well. I will admit it does present some interesting rights tracking problems but i think it would be worth it in the end.
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eliminator2
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Posted - 2008.02.28 18:34:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cyphr Sonic
Warning LONG Wall of text (it has some windows though )
Currently the bounty system is fatally flawed. At the moment it provides no real way to be a bounty hunter as a profession as you still take security hits for attempting to claim the bounty. After some thought and some discussion on IRC, some friends and I came up with a system that could be much better than the current system. This system would revolve around trading kill rights via an auction system as outlined below.
Auctions to bid for kill rights:
This system will replace the current bounty system with an auction type that strips the kill rights from the victim and transfer them to the bounty hunter. Unlike other systems this system bids DOWN essentially having the victim specify how much their revenge is worth to themselves.
Example: Miner A gets killed by Pirate B. at this point Miner A now has kill rights on Pirate B. Miner A posts an auction for his kill rights in the contract system setting a max price of 100 mil Isk. Bounty Hunter C bids 50 mil Isk and Hunter D bids 25mil Isk. At this point the bids are presented to the Miner A, who then decides who to award his contract to. This prevents people from accidentally awarding a Carrier kill to a 2 week old pilot in a destroyer. In this case letÆs say BH D is in the same corp as Pirate B this would let the Miner notice the fact they probably are just going to cash in for another 25 mil so he awards it to BH C instead. (it costs him more but it means he will actually get his revenge)
At this point BH C has to deposit fifty mil as collateral in case he does not actually kill the pirate. In return kill rights are transferred to him and he can attack B without consequence. If C manages to pop B he receives his collateral back as well as his bid of 50 mil form the miner. All in all miner paid 50 mil to D to kill B. (have I lost you yet it gets more complicated from here)
In essence this system is a reverse auction that allows you to simply buy kill rights. I also propose corps be allowed to purchase the rights for an entire corp. This will allow ant pirate corps to become viable û something the current system does not allow. However I suggest a percent of the award be taxed by concord. If a corp kills the pirate then the bounty goes to the corp wallet so it may be doled out appropriately by the corp owners.
ThereÆs my idea IÆm sorry itÆs a text wall. As a side note it would be cool if when pirate was killed it told him who the bounty hunter both the kill rights on, if only to upset him.
/signed
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JSO Milic
JSO Intel
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Posted - 2008.02.28 23:46:00 -
[43]
Just to add here. With regards to the bounty system, it might be an interesting addition to have an option, where you can specicfy who may collect bounty rewards. Certain individuals, corporations or alliances
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Yzuki
Pyromaniaks
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2008.03.09 19:49:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Yzuki on 09/03/2008 19:49:35
Definitely a great idea with no real downside. There can really be no exploit in this as killrights were gathered due to an illegal action (in CONCORD's eyes) in the first place by the offending party. Of course this thread has been going a year and from what I can see nearly every response to this post has supported the idea, but CCP would rather focus it's resources currently on things like making jump freighters more popular (simple answer CCP they cost 6 billion currently, make em cheaper to build) than what the player base would actually like.
Is this forum actually useful?
Helping the EVE economy flourish since 2005
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Drebble
Gallente
North Star Networks
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.09 22:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: JSO Milic
Just to add here. With regards to the bounty system, it might be an interesting addition to have an option, where you can specicfy who may collect bounty rewards. Certain individuals, corporations or alliances
This is an excellent suggestion. It makes it much harder for
someone to have a friend or alt claim a bounty. Also I might
want the infamous Boba Fett to go after my hated enemy, and
no one else 
Regards,
Drebble
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Zartach Tzarszh
Minmatar
The Royal Engineers
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Posted - 2008.04.13 08:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Drebble
Originally by: JSO Milic
Just to add here. With regards to the bounty system, it might be an interesting addition to have an option, where you can specicfy who may collect bounty rewards. Certain individuals, corporations or alliances
This is an excellent suggestion. It makes it much harder for
someone to have a friend or alt claim a bounty. Also I might
want the infamous Boba Fett to go after my hated enemy, and
no one else
Regards,
Drebble
I think that would make a lot of "merc's" happy having a contract type of thing replacing the current system.
Although i do think that when these things are set up the [wanted] and amount of bounty should remain visible on the intended target. |
Fingapup
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Posted - 2008.04.13 08:47:00 -
[47]
...would be fine if you could spell anything... but seriously... great idea.
Letters of Marque from NPC entities too could fit nicely into faction war and all that upcoming loveliness... |
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