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Yolandar
I Like Big Rocks
103
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Posted - 2017.02.15 20:14:41 -
[31] - Quote
Give it a 15minute change timer same as the crimewatch or safe logoff timer. Seems a fair compromise. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1556
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Posted - 2017.02.15 21:33:30 -
[32] - Quote
Yolandar wrote:Give it a 15minute change timer same as the crimewatch or safe logoff timer. Seems a fair compromise. Why, though? |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
8
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Posted - 2017.02.15 21:58:14 -
[33] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Yolandar wrote:Give it a 15minute change timer same as the crimewatch or safe logoff timer. Seems a fair compromise. Why, though?
A "realistic" (horrible to use that word for a spaceship video game) explanation would be it takes 15 minutes to communicate the directive of the owner to the grunts running the station.
No idea if it's needed or not... but you'd think shutting down public access to a giant space station or opening it up again would take at least a few minutes. |
Gaius Clabbacus
Basket of Deplorables
37
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Posted - 2017.02.15 22:09:25 -
[34] - Quote
Scialt wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Yolandar wrote:Give it a 15minute change timer same as the crimewatch or safe logoff timer. Seems a fair compromise. Why, though? A "realistic" (horrible to use that word for a spaceship video game) explanation would be it takes 15 minutes to communicate the directive of the owner to the grunts running the station. No idea if it's needed or not... but you'd think shutting down public access to a giant space station or opening it up again would take at least a few minutes.
Well, if the owner is planning a trap then it stands to reason that protocols are in place to ensure the change is implemented near-instantaneous by the docking managers.
By the time the average player can afford a JF he should be smart enough not to fall for the obvious tricks. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1557
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Posted - 2017.02.15 22:14:58 -
[35] - Quote
Scialt wrote:A "realistic" (horrible to use that word for a spaceship video game) explanation would be it takes 15 minutes to communicate the directive of the owner to the grunts running the station. Sure, but then it would also "realistically" take 15 minutes to communicate and process a docking request, and another 15 minutes until the hunchbacked docking port operator has opened/closed the cast iron airlock via manual handcrank after receiving the order to do so via tube mail. Or it takes the central station computer 15 nanoseconds to broadcast the new system policy to its docking subsystems.
When I'm asking "why?" then I'm asking gameplay reasons. And the only gameplay reason that comes to mind would be to prevent bait and switch type courier scams and capital traps from happening. However, this is Eve, and scams and traps are considered content. Adding a delay there would therefore remove content from the game, only to add a bit of convenience to players who want to move their caps through neutral space and don't want to make sure the route is safe. Not a good tradeoff in my book. |
Yolandar
I Like Big Rocks
103
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Posted - 2017.02.16 00:21:23 -
[36] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Scialt wrote:A "realistic" (horrible to use that word for a spaceship video game) explanation would be it takes 15 minutes to communicate the directive of the owner to the grunts running the station. Sure, but then it would also "realistically" take 15 minutes to communicate and process a docking request, and another 15 minutes until the hunchbacked docking port operator has opened/closed the cast iron airlock via manual handcrank after receiving the order to do so via tube mail. Or it takes the central station computer 15 nanoseconds to broadcast the new system policy to its docking subsystems. When I'm asking "why?" then I'm asking gameplay reasons. And the only gameplay reason that comes to mind would be to prevent bait and switch type courier scams and capital traps from happening. However, this is Eve, and scams and traps are considered content. Adding a delay there would therefore remove content from the game, only to add a bit of convenience to players who want to move their caps through neutral space and don't want to make sure the route is safe. Not a good tradeoff in my book.
exacly why I gave up doing courier contracts. no confidence at all in the citadel system. just look at how the commercial hauling corps are dealing with this for your answers.
npc stations will never be allowed to go away until things like this get adjusted. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5577
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Posted - 2017.02.16 00:27:02 -
[37] - Quote
Yolandar wrote:exacly why I gave up doing courier contracts. no confidence at all in the citadel system. just look at how the commercial hauling corps are dealing with this for your answers.
npc stations will never be allowed to go away until things like this get adjusted. This is unfortunately an entirely separate issue (if still related). Short of completely overhauling how access works - I'm not sure this is going to be something easily remedied. I guess it's become commonplace in EVE to figure out how to f**k over players every time a new feature is introduced.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1562
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Posted - 2017.02.16 00:31:33 -
[38] - Quote
NPC stations can't go away for quite some time yet anyway. Where would they put Agents? Where would they seed blueprints? And I do not think removing NPC stations is even on the radar for CCP. It would not make a lot of sense lore-wise either. Why would the empires not have stations?
But let's imagine they went away all of a sudden - poof! A market develops on a citadel and people want to deliver stuff there on contract, so it can be sold in that new market hub. What would be the smart thing to do for the owner? Block access, thereby making himself untrustworthy as the owner of a market hub citadel, or just let everyone dock, let his market grow and get rich off taxes without moving a finger ever again? |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5577
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Posted - 2017.02.16 00:33:37 -
[39] - Quote
Neuntausend - you raise a very valid point. Trust and accountability are going to be very prized commodities down the road.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2569
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Posted - 2017.02.16 02:27:39 -
[40] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Neuntausend wrote:The question is: Why should the owner not be allowed to change docking/tethering rights whenever they want to? It's their citadel/outpost after all. If they want to change it, they should be allowed to do so. Travelers should take care which outposts and citadels they use as mid points. If you do not trust the owner, don't use their infrastructure. Man, I've been agreeing with your all posts for the past few days. Does this mean I've gone over to the dark side? Wait for it... "Baited on a freeport", lol. I think you have to have a certain amount of dark side already in you to properly enjoy Eve. I've been a mostly upstanding citizen for the last bunch of years but I always enjoyed the pvp and non-consensual aspects of the game, and still enjoy hearing others experiences on the "dark" side.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1261
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Posted - 2017.02.16 02:27:56 -
[41] - Quote
I have to agree with a Goon here... I feel SOO dirty!@!
Think of it as being in the customs portion of an airport when you are ALREADY in the country. Technically you are NOT in the country itself and can be rejected by a computer saying "NO!" when your passport is scanned or even detained as you are going up to the queue by customs or other real world officers. It sucks as you are out your flight, possibly baggage and time in jail or even death in some cases. So I would have to agree that though this DOES suck it is working as intended.
As for the courier contract thing that DOES need to be changed. Simply put and done. Change the permissions to allow it to finish and give docking rights to the courier pilot themselves until it is finished that simply cannot be revoked. The formality of the contract itself should give at least some modicum of "legality" in a sense. Never minding there are lots of other ways to courier scam anyway but in light of this I think that something along these lines should be enforced.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5581
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Posted - 2017.02.16 02:43:28 -
[42] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:I have to agree with a Goon here... I feel SOO dirty!@! Trust me - it washes off...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1566
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Posted - 2017.02.16 03:07:12 -
[43] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:As for the courier contract thing that DOES need to be changed. Simply put and done. Change the permissions to allow it to finish and give docking rights to the courier pilot themselves until it is finished that simply cannot be revoked. The formality of the contract itself should give at least some modicum of "legality" in a sense. Never minding there are lots of other ways to courier scam anyway but in light of this I think that something along these lines should be enforced. That would not be a smart move. All it would take to make sure I retain docking rights to a citadel would be a courier contract to that station, that I can make myself with an alt. As long as I have that contract, they can't lock me out. Sounds broken.
Or do you suggest that only the citadel owner should be able to put up courier contracts to their citadel? That would be even more detrimental to the courier business, would it not? |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1261
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Posted - 2017.02.16 03:16:49 -
[44] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:As for the courier contract thing that DOES need to be changed. Simply put and done. Change the permissions to allow it to finish and give docking rights to the courier pilot themselves until it is finished that simply cannot be revoked. The formality of the contract itself should give at least some modicum of "legality" in a sense. Never minding there are lots of other ways to courier scam anyway but in light of this I think that something along these lines should be enforced. That would not be a smart move. All it would take to make sure I retain docking rights to a citadel would be a courier contract to that station, that I can make myself with an alt. As long as I have that contract, they can't lock me out. Sounds broken. Or do you suggest that only the citadel owner should be able to put up courier contracts to their citadel? That would be even more detrimental to the courier business, would it not? Good reexploit rebuttal... dang noo!!! Arthur this had BETTER wash off!!
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1567
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Posted - 2017.02.16 03:56:35 -
[45] - Quote
That may not actually be such a bad idea. It would also be much more interesting to unwrap those items, than just collect that bland old money as collateral. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5582
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Posted - 2017.02.16 04:01:39 -
[46] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:That may not actually be such a bad idea. It would also be much more interesting to unwrap those items, than just collect that bland old money as collateral. Damnit - I'm agreeing with you again... It's not hard to imagine that bribes would soon be finding their way to the eager hands of station owners to "look the other way". Even a bidding war between contractor and contractee... This whole thing is a real can of snakes...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1262
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Posted - 2017.02.16 04:09:58 -
[47] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Neuntausend wrote:That may not actually be such a bad idea. It would also be much more interesting to unwrap those items, than just collect that bland old money as collateral. Damnit - I'm agreeing with you again... It's not hard to imagine that bribes would soon be finding their way to the eager hands of station owners to "look the other way". Even a bidding war between contractor and contractee... This whole thing is a real can of snakes... This is what I was thinking of exactly. As it allows the courier to actually negotiate and interact with the owner to fail it on purpose for various reasons for a fee, or even agree on a fee and then scam both the creator and the owner.
Ultimately it would give everyone involved in the contract schema; contract creator, courier and citadel owner, of scamming someone in the courier chain itself all for different reasons.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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