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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
16
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Posted - 2017.02.23 20:43:39 -
[1] - Quote
urgh... soooo.... you're making rorquals more of a target, while simultaneusly nerfing it's reward? also, that whole locked asteroid business... is literally the dumbest thing i've heard. why not just disallow activation fo offensive modules/ewar, like the NSAs. I think rorqual yield is fine. the rorqs don't really impact the main minerals market.... just that minerals provided by roids need to be rebalanced. FIX THE DAMNED MEX HOLE. FIX THE HEAVY WATER HOLE. |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
17
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Posted - 2017.02.23 20:55:42 -
[2] - Quote
darthmoll Amatin wrote:Malkshurr wrote:At the beginning of Roqual dug as much as 4 hulks It was then nerf by 32% and now is the nerf by another 25%?
So one rorqual is 2 hulks now 2 hulks - 600 - 700 million 1 rorqual - 12 B
And you do not see the problem ? totally aggree. investing billions for the drones. now the market will drop. we loose isk on the drones. then on the mining yield. also not even worth having a rorq on field with indy core active against the loss cost if it gets killed. (yes i know about the depot) can we get offgrid and ongrid boost options and let people decide if they want to go ongrid with rorq??? why ccp why. do we get compensation for the excavator drones market loss? NO.we dont. thx for nothing. i am so demotivated by this. also, remember, drones are killmails now... |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
17
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Posted - 2017.02.23 20:57:41 -
[3] - Quote
caldari MJ wrote: fozzie nerfed anything in WH's and deprived us tasty targets in w-space. We started rolling 0-sec and fozzie nerfed our targets in 0-sec's....facepalm.jpg. Fozzie, i hate you, you realy bad man, how you can sleep every night while so many people hate u?))))
you know u dun fukd up ur rorqual changes, when even the rorqual hunters are salty |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
18
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Posted - 2017.02.23 22:37:24 -
[4] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:Querns wrote:Whole lotta folks not twigging to the fact that sieging the rorqual gives you ECM immunity ITT.
I won't comment directly on the nerf, but I do offer this: If the goal here is to help buttress mineral prices, consider taking a look at the mineral basket. (Ask Aryth if you don't understand what this means. Few do.) Decreasing the amount of pyerite and isogen in nullsec anomalies, while increasing mexallon (and to a lesser degree, nocx and mega) will do a lot to help correct the downward trend in minerals.
If you'd like an idea on how mineral prices react in a high-usage market, check the keepstar in 1DQ1-A. What a load of bollocks. The Mexallon has been intended as a feature of the game several times by the devs. If you want more go wormhole diving. The mineral prices drop because null-sec has reduced dependence on exporting from high-sec. Less demand, same supply, lower price - economics 101. If you are so set on independence then we bring the 90% jump protection to the table of negotiation. There has been plenty of carrots given to null industry, it's now time for sticks. Perhaps high-sec can have direct access to small amounts Zyd and Mega - why not, you're holding out a hand. no. wormholes don't give enough ore. minerals need to be balanced. it's driving down the price of all the other minerals. that is what is screwing the mineral market. fine, you want to throw sticks at us Indy players? how do you like not having any morphite? |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
19
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Posted - 2017.02.23 23:54:45 -
[5] - Quote
Lord Nighthawk wrote:agree with the Panic change sort of. it shouldn't be an invulnerable capital tackler.. but requiring it to have roid locked is pathetic.
Excavator drones.. smaller reduction.. something like 130/m3-60s.. that's 11.4% Then keep an eye on things. Unless you want to post data to support your OVER nerfing once again..
2 Orca boosted maxed hulks(with implants) is approx. 1/7 the risk and 85%+ish the yield.. better risk vs reward ratio and they aren't stuck there
I have no problems with this. you can always nerf it more, later, but the mineral market is gonna keep deteriorating until the minerals get rebalanced. |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
21
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Posted - 2017.02.24 02:14:08 -
[6] - Quote
Ltcartial wrote:1
Final thought, Making the main materials for the excavator drones drop mostly in drone region space is complete insanity, drone region space already has higher bounty due to npcs not droping loot, now you give them extra isk for the elite drone AI and drone augments that drop more in drone region space then other space. . well, we also get no loot most of the time... and **** salvage... |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
21
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Posted - 2017.02.24 02:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
someone did the math, you'll loose fully 25% of ur optimal yield... http://pastebin.com/8WbfwhGU
i don't think i've ever seen CCP take such massive nerfbats to anything... maybe CCP should try nerfing carriers 25% dps, see how that goes over |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
21
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Posted - 2017.02.24 03:01:36 -
[8] - Quote
also, please note, at least the PANIC changes are live on SIS, as I discovered today |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
22
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Posted - 2017.02.24 04:23:46 -
[9] - Quote
Dawn Harbinger wrote:As a lowly (often solo) miner piloting his exhumer in low sec, I want to thank you for keeping an eye on the ore market!
I mine because I find it fun and relaxing, but at some point I have to ask myself why even bother when people are sucking up belts at an ungodly rate using their own personal rorqual fleet. As much as I love piloting my Skiff I'm not going to do it when my full ore hold is worth < 1 million isk. if they would reblanace the belts, we could use all our ore for local production, instead of shipping it out. besides, mining is not really supposed to be a solo game |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
22
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Posted - 2017.02.24 04:25:59 -
[10] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:zzzbowlcutmcgee zzz wrote:Translation: treat indy ships like EVERY OTHER SHIP IN THE GAME when nerfs happen. Imagine if t3 ships all got a 30% ehp reduction, 30% dps reduction, no more instawarp, no more covert ops config, AND more mass for "wormhole balance"
The same people who have their heads up their asses would be crying enough salt to supply every mcdonalds in the world.
And that's NORMAL. "blanket nerfs" where you hit literally every aspect of a ship in terms of its mainuse + survivability, people have issues with it. Because it's ********. They are treating them like every other ship, which means if something is over-performing it gets nerfed in a way that CCP thinks will lead to a better game state. They've already nerfed it once, that didn't work, so they're nerfing it again to see where it lands. None of this has *anything* to do with percentage change in any stat on any ship. I'd also like to point out that your hyperbole here pretty badly missed the mark. Most of CCP's changes to combat ships aren't "blanket nerfs" and they haven't touched anything on the Rorqual except for its mining yield, which is out of control, and its ability to be used as absurdly heavy tackle, logi, and entosis, which has also been threatening to get out of control. Oh, and amusingly if you went ahead with those T3C nerfs you so angrily threw out there you might actually get a halfway balanced ship. Thirty percent less DPS is probably a bit much, but 30% less EHP would still leave them with more than a well tanked T2 Cruiser. Though I don't think they can insta-warp, so there's that. out of control? how so? i'd posit that relatively cheap capitals are good for the game. the only reason the market is crashing, is because the belts are not balanced with the consumption |
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Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
22
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Posted - 2017.02.24 04:37:21 -
[11] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Iminent Penance wrote:Dude look up cade's post history. He only posts on forums to flame people for wanting risk vs reward in ANYTHING but pvp ships. Seriously don't bother talking with him on anything regarding balance, he will just sarcastically tell you how you're just greedy/carebear to justify ccp making his life easier.
Which is hilarious.
In regards to these changes: Lol CCP. Lol You clearly didn't look back far enough. I was actually quite in favor of the original Rorqual changes and even defended the high yields for a while after, but at this point the mineral market is dropping like, well, a rock, and it's pretty easy to see why. The Rorqual isn't even getting used as a boosting ship, people are going "Excavator drones or bust!" and just using fleets of these things to mine. I'm all in favor of Risk vs Reward in every area of the game, PvE, PvP, Mining, or whatever else, but it should be balanced risk vs reward, and the Rorqual is pretty clearly out of balance. Grognard Commissar wrote:someone did the math, you'll loose fully 25% of ur optimal yield... http://pastebin.com/8WbfwhGU i don't think i've ever seen CCP take such massive nerfbats to anything... maybe CCP should try nerfing carriers 25% dps, see how that goes over You mean like that thing they did to Carriers two months after Citadel dropped that did pretty much exactly what you're saying here? Nerfed Carriers by about 25% and made it so they couldn't alpha sub-caps off the field anymore? Oh and don't forget the last time they nerfed the Rorqual, all of a month and a half ago. Which has completely failed to halt the slide in mineral prices that started around November when the revamped Rorqual came out... they'll never stop the slide, until they fix it so that all the minerals get used. they can nerf mining into the ground, not going to fix it at all.
also, keep ion mind that the (fitted) rorqual costs as much as 4 (fitted) ratting carriers... and is locked in place for 5 minutes |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
22
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Posted - 2017.02.24 05:03:20 -
[12] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Grognard Commissar wrote:out of control? how so? i'd posit that relatively cheap capitals are good for the game. the only reason the market is crashing, is because the belts are not balanced with the consumption Grognard Commissar wrote:they'll never stop the slide, until they fix it so that all the minerals get used. they can nerf mining into the ground, not going to fix it at all.
also, keep ion mind that the (fitted) rorqual costs as much as 4 (fitted) ratting carriers... and is locked in place for 5 minutes See above link for the graph on Pyrite prices. The same thing is happening to Tritanium, Isogen, Nocxium, and Morphite. The only reason that Megacyte, Zydrine, and Mexallon spiked after the initial jump was because the impact on all the other more readily available minerals was more immediate. Now that supply is truly starting to out strip demand on even those we're starting to see all of them slide as well, with Mexallon being the last because the primary ores for getting it didn't used to be as valuable as the ABCs but right now it's become a bottle neck. The reason the market is crashing is because of Rorqual mining. Rorquals and their absurd m3 per minute have created a massive influx of minerals into the market that's massive out stripped demand. CCP can't magically make players consume more minerals, so they have to arrest the supply by nerfing the Rorqual. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't really matter how much a Rorqual costs if they aren't dying, and right now they really aren't, at least not with nearly enough frequency to come close to offsetting the volume of minerals they mine. Gamble Aces wrote:Here's my tinfoil hat theory.
CCP gives zero fucks about the mineral market. CCP has lost a shitload of subs because people that previously had 10-12 accounts mining now have 1-3 accounts. Now they think by nerfing rorquals and buffing barges all these people will pay their subs again. Lol, no. Just look at this thread or go talk to some miners. All the miners with 10 subs started training them for Rorquals as fast as they could. If anyone was going to un-sub over the present state of the Rorqual it's the smaller High Sec miners that are watching their chances of making a PLEX each month disappear with the falling price of Trit. I'm getting the feeling that you're a station trader, with zero experience in nullsec inductry, or general sovnull operations.
we don't care about the jita price, the only minerals we export here, is morphite, because we get wayyy more than we can use. the rest of everythign we mine goes straight via contract to the builders that make caps. a bit gets used for other stuff, because, in nullsec, it's usually easier to just build everything.
also, look at your numbers, trit is falling, but mex is actually going up. that's because of the mineral imbalance |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
22
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Posted - 2017.02.24 05:11:36 -
[13] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:When's the riot scheduled for? nah, miners don't riot, we simply stop mining |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
25
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Posted - 2017.02.25 01:37:09 -
[14] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Goborn wrote:According to my best knowledge the Rorq's mining yield has now been nerfed by 58% Your math is off. The paper yield got chopped by 25% once, then that remaining 75% got chopped by 25%, which leaves you with ~56.25% of the original post-changes level. paintballlawss Padecain wrote:The only people having no risk is the people in MEGA Coaltions but for us small indy folk this nerf is huge and I dont even give a crap about the PANIC change except for the fact I have to lock a rock when there are much better ways to go about it than that but we might as well go back to hulk mining because there is very little reward to having a rorq on field and too the argument of super ratting is far more risky... im sorry but you are completely wrong super and titan ratting is way less risky then rorq mining... you siege up a rorq in a belt with that cost 16 bil for 5 mins with no backup and tell me how much your butthole puckers for smaller alliances the rorqual mining will be dead because there is no backup for them and you can make more and be safer by hulk mining
Yes, and those people in massive coalitions make up the vast majority of Rorqual users and thus the majority of mineral influx that is causing market problems. A smaller group that only has 1-2 Rorquals and still uses Exhumers actually benefits from this change because now those boosted Exhumers are mining more compared to a Rorqual, and this will likely push some people out of Rorqual Mining, meaning that demand and price for the Excavators should drop and the mineral price should recover. On top of that this makes it more viable, relatively, to just boost with a Rorqual and mine with Hulks, since the hull itself is only ~3B and pays out ~2.2B with full insurance. this is also not considering drone travel time... which is becoming more significant, especially with the cycle time change |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
25
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Posted - 2017.02.27 04:40:47 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:Even on the off chance that you're correct and the long term result is still a lot of Rorquals we'll probably only see more nerfs if we're *only* seeing Rorquals and no mixed Rorqual Hulk fleets. Fozzie flat out stated that their goal here is for the Rorqual to be used for both mining and boosting, rather than just as a super-miner.
I think you are severely underestimating the min/max of miners... |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
25
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Posted - 2017.03.02 02:10:14 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The inventory operation actually doesnGÇÖt happen until the drones get all the way back to your ship so they donGÇÖt know until that point that the asteroid is going to be empty. The good news is that the faster excavator cycle times will significantly reduce that waste. TBH, that wasn't really a problem at all for rorq pilots. I feel like it'l do more harm than good, in that it will really multiply the impacts of your nerfs. after a bit o thought, i can see why you're needing to do it, it's far too popular for its own good. however, the cycle time change, without an adjoining speed buff, will, i feel, cause much more of a nerf than you intend. it's really ahrd to predict with solid numbers, however |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
25
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Posted - 2017.03.14 16:35:26 -
[17] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Coelomate Tian wrote:Happy patch day everyone!
Can't wait for all the crying about Big Spod, especially all of the crying about Big Spod that fails to mention all of the non-gigantic rocks in the anom. There's always a flood of ranting from people who only seem to discover the forums when they're linked to from the patch notes. Doesn't do much for the quality of feedback i wouldn't mind the changes to rock size as much, if they didn't also nerf the drone yield and cycle time (it's really a nerf, whatever fozzie says). my actual yield is maybe one hulk now. and that's with a sentient drone nav. i get that they needed to be nerfed because *reasons*, but i think the changes combined are too much. |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
25
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Posted - 2017.03.14 16:39:05 -
[18] - Quote
starmaser darkborn wrote:I don't fly rorqs but I feel like the problems have other solutions. For example:
- Make EWAR not operable during PANIC
- Make a Cyno not usable during PANIC or you cant PANIC while using a cyno
- Raise the stenosis time multiplier to something obscene
Those would be probable solutions to the problems. Rorqs are capitals with little dps or combat ability (as far as I know), having the PANIC work while moving or transporting is a necessity in my opinion.
Thoughts? people use cynos with panic to jump in help |
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