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VanillaFace	Posted - 2007.08.28 00:15:00 - [121] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Marux Originally by: VanillaFace Nos was imbalanced. Tommorow it wont be. No it will still be unbalanced, but at the other end of the spectrum. I agree that the nos was overpowered, but the way that it is getting fixed is pretty much making the module useless. ... for people who have no idea how to adapt, yeah. Rofl, then adapt to the change and stop whining about it.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.08.28 00:40:00 - [122] Originally by: Marux Originally by: VanillaFace Nos was imbalanced. Tommorow it wont be. No it will still be unbalanced, but at the other end of the spectrum. I agree that the nos was overpowered, but the way that it is getting fixed is pretty much making the module useless. Honestly, who cares? An overpowered module is a much bigger detriment to the game than an underpowered one, particularly when it doesn't take any significant SP investment to use. Just fit something else. Amarr Recon pilots do have a legitimate gripe because there is a SP issue, and it's not quite as simple as just using different modules. But the solution there is to reevaluate those specific ships, not to keep NOS the same for all eternity. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.28 03:40:00 - [123] Yeh adapt is a nice word that gets moved around here. For close to a year now I have spec in the pilgrim. Now this nos nerf has just dmg the pilgrim that it is now useless. Pilgrim gets a 100 pg increase, great that means nothing. People say, oh fit 2 neuts and 1 nos. You drain your cap while using the neuts then turn it off and nos them. However that wont work cause my neuts drain a huge amount of cap from the target on a pilgrim. In fact two neuts will drain over 600 cap and cost about 300. Not only that but to use heat you need energy management V. Pitty that and if you have energy management V your worse off using nos. This nos nerf at this extent and those who cheer for it has proven one thing. That whiners control this game.
Yokan Daifuku Gallente The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.08.28 04:51:00 - [124] See, no numbers. I showed you some of my numbers. Running a 'geddon for 2-2.5m without nos is ridiculous. I have yet to see any numbers supporting the nerf. If you are going to PVP it is a natural fit for close combat. Close range combat need tons of cap. The sounds of nerf supports sounds like I got ganked in my PvE ship and I might have had a chance if it wasn't for that nos. For PvP there is no more natural fit in hi slots where turrets won't fit. So use them don't complain about them. ---- Yo-con Die-foo-koo
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.28 09:36:00 - [125] Originally by: VanillaFace Rofl, then adapt to the change and stop whining about it. I have, and I never whined about it - stupid. - Recruitment open again-
Isuo Red 42 Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2007.08.28 09:41:00 - [126] Yes, Nos was too inbalanced! No, i dont like the uncreative way ccp try to change that! there r many ways to make a better job: -assign Nos-slots to ships -make em use some kind of ammo -let em cost an amount of cap at start of the cycle and giving more back at its end -introduce some modules and/or rigs and/or skill to give resistance to it/ lower the amount drained -introduce some adv.nos-skill(s) and base drained amount/nos-range on it -relate amount drained/range to the signature -give em drawbacks, for example like the wcs -let em built some kind of heat when used and give a skill/abillity that those heat can get regenerated over time, so it cant be run continously without pause and thus just what comes spontanously to my mind. the way u made it now it will simple let ppl avoid nos and instead fit neuts and capboosters, at least when its possible and i cant say it is for all ships. at least when it comes to amarr (for others i cant speak as i dont fly em) leaving em without a alternative to fill up their highslots in many cases! Bad Job CCCP!!! but well... -Im Amarr, i will adapt
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:50:00 - [127] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/08/2007 10:51:56 I love the NOS changes. I fly small ships a lot, and, well, NOS is just a 'shut down ship' button for me. Furthermore, having to fit NOS as a requirement (because, well, you've got to counter theirs) was always annoying. It was a must-fit module on any ship, and it was a no-brainer to fit it, as fitting any auxillary weapon system just didn't make sense - the damage boost you get is smaller then the actual 'damage boost' you get from NOS, which also helps me not to cap out. Now i may be packing one on some of my ships, but i don't have to, anymore. Anyway, the only ship which is really, really messed up now is the pilgrim, which is really going to need an overhaul. Curses will still be flyable, and Neut Domis are probably going to replace NOS Domis. And, yes, the change is probably better then 90% of the suggestions the players gave. So, no, it's not a sloppy job on CCP's side, and yes, i will very likely be using NOS post-patch. Or maybe i'll opt for more damage. But finally i have an option Basically, good job. And to the people saying: "whiners win", that's a load of .... Imagine the Amarr boosts if whiners were winning. It's just that CCP, well, plays the game as well. Something a lot of people wouldn't like them to Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:54:00 - [128] Yep Nerfing should mean to bring that module inline with other modules not make it totally useless.
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.28 11:11:00 - [129] Originally by: Yokan Daifuku See, no numbers. I showed you some of my numbers. Running a 'geddon for 2-2.5m without nos is ridiculous. I have yet to see any numbers supporting the nerf. If you are going to PVP it is a natural fit for close combat. Close range combat need tons of cap. The sounds of nerf supports sounds like I got ganked in my PvE ship and I might have had a chance if it wasn't for that nos. For PvP there is no more natural fit in hi slots where turrets won't fit. So use them don't complain about them. You gave numbers sure (actually you didn't, but lets pretend that you did), but you've also apparently failed to realize what this nerf is about. If you are flying a cap hungry ship like a pulse-geddon than this nerf won't affect you in any significant way, it is actually a very significant boost to Amarr close range ships (and Gallente as well to a lesser extent). Since you are using more cap than your opponent then the Nos that is fitted in your high slot will continue to help you sustain your cap and for that very same reason, enemy nosses won't have any effect on you. Why any Amarr pulse-ship pilot is against this change is something wich I have yet failed to understand...
DeadDuck Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 11:41:00 - [130] Originally by: PhantomVyper Why any Amarr pulse-ship pilot is against this change is something wich I have yet failed to understand... Dont worry I fly only amarr ships and dont understand eihter. Can understand the Curse and Pilgrim pilots, but the others ???
EgoMan	Posted - 2007.08.28 12:34:00 - [131] Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 12:37:50 Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 12:37:06 Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 12:36:09 I dont understand, why would they nerf an already worthless weapon? I have a logistics set up that I run and I had to use 3 medium named nos and I still couldnt even remotely suppliment my cap. The only nos that even has a decent rate of transfer is the heavy and not every ship can run something that large. Ive never used one for PvP but to make the arguement that it lets small ships into PvP alone is rediculous. Now the small ships will have the advantage even more in PvP due to faster speeds and smaller signature radius without having to worry about losing there cap. Caldary missle frigates like the crow will dominate a large ship without help and thats just plain weak. If you want to bring smaller ships into pvp then go in groups, that only makes sence....but whatever. I dont use them for PvP anyways but now I wonder how It will effect my ability to do my job in PvE since the nos transefer rates sucked to begin with.
Cuntbaggola	Posted - 2007.08.28 12:42:00 - [132] Edited by: **baggola on 28/08/2007 12:50:11 Edited by: **baggola on 28/08/2007 12:48:27 Originally by: EgoMan Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 12:37:50 Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 12:37:06 Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 12:36:09 I dont understand, why would they nerf an already worthless weapon? I have a logistics set up that I run and I had to use 3 medium named nos and I still couldnt even remotely suppliment my cap. The only nos that even has a decent rate of transfer is the heavy and not every ship can run something that large. Ive never used one for PvP but to make the arguement that it lets small ships into PvP alone is rediculous. Now the small ships will have the advantage even more in PvP due to faster speeds and smaller signature radius without having to worry about losing there cap. Caldary missle frigates like the crow will dominate a large ship without help and thats just plain weak. If you want to bring smaller ships into pvp then go in groups, that only makes sence....but whatever. I dont use them for PvP anyways but now I wonder how It will effect my ability to do my job in PvE since the nos transefer rates sucked to begin with. Agreed, the medium named nos is like 35...thats not enough to compensate for a large shield booster. A heave nos is 135 thats where the transfer gets decent so unless you have alot of power grid and cpu to spare after you fit your ship your not gonna run a heavy. Sounds like someone lost there fancy tech-II ship to a smart player running a nos and now we enter the NERF.
EgoMan	Posted - 2007.08.28 15:32:00 - [133] Shoot now that I think about it, this patch pretty much handed PvP completely over to the frigate classed ships. I dont see any negatives to running a small ship anymore no cap worries, plenty of speed to avouid turrets and reduced signature radius. Talk about unbalancing a game in one item change.
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.08.28 15:54:00 - [134] Originally by: EgoMan Shoot now that I think about it, this patch pretty much handed PvP completely over to the frigate classed ships. I dont see any negatives to running a small ship anymore no cap worries, plenty of speed to avouid turrets and reduced signature radius. Talk about unbalancing a game in one item change. Please bring your ceptor near my heavy Neut It'll drain you twice as fast as a NOS.
EgoMan	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:17:00 - [135] I dont have one....but I agree the neut is the way to go. It just doesnt make any sence, Nos was an underpowered weapon to start with...now its even worse. Seems like a thoughtless change to me that almost crippled an entire playing style just to benefit another that really didnt need any benefits.
Borasao Ex Coelis Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:23:00 - [136] Originally by: Depp Knight Yeh adapt is a nice word that gets moved around here. For close to a year now I have spec in the pilgrim. Now this nos nerf has just dmg the pilgrim that it is now useless. Pilgrim gets a 100 pg increase, great that means nothing. People say, oh fit 2 neuts and 1 nos. You drain your cap while using the neuts then turn it off and nos them. However that wont work cause my neuts drain a huge amount of cap from the target on a pilgrim. In fact two neuts will drain over 600 cap and cost about 300. Not only that but to use heat you need energy management V. Pitty that and if you have energy management V your worse off using nos. This nos nerf at this extent and those who cheer for it has proven one thing. That whiners control this game. It also means that FOTM pilot training is eventually a dead-end task and is bound to end in tears.
Borasao Ex Coelis Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:33:00 - [137] Edited by: Borasao on 28/08/2007 16:41:04 Originally by: Isuo Yes, Nos was too inbalanced! No, i dont like the uncreative way ccp try to change that! there r many ways to make a better job: -assign Nos-slots to ships Bad idea. Would cause massive rebalancing of every ship in Eve. Quote: -make em use some kind of ammo This one actually isn't so bad... maybe just like cap boosters with the same volume. NOS uses will still freak because it hurts their overpowered setups. Quote: -let em cost an amount of cap at start of the cycle and giving more back at its end That's not really different than now. I would think that cycle time is too short to really matter on these for that purpose... NOS might even be stronger with this change than it is now. Quote: -introduce some modules and/or rigs and/or skill to give resistance to it/ lower the amount drained Great... even more modules to balance for fittings and require people to fit on ships. Yeah... required... everyone would pretty much be required to fit them because of all the NOS ships in the game. Quote: -introduce some adv.nos-skill(s) and base drained amount/nos-range on it More skills! Yay! Quote: -relate amount drained/range to the signature Bad idea. All this does is make small ships invulnerable to large ships. The imbalances the other way (for example, a Pilgrim/Curse solo killing BSs with relative ease) are not addressed by this at all. Quote: -give em drawbacks, for example like the wcs NOS uses will still freak because it hurts their overpowered setups. Quote: -let em built some kind of heat when used and give a skill/abillity that those heat can get regenerated over time, so it cant be run continously without pause Even more complex game mechanics to code and fix bugs in. Yay! Quote: and thus just what comes spontanously to my mind. Yup... and all bad. Quote: the way u made it now it will simple let ppl avoid nos and instead fit neuts and capboosters, at least when its possible and i cant say it is for all ships. at least when it comes to amarr (for others i cant speak as i dont fly em) leaving em without a alternative to fill up their highslots in many cases! Yup... so destroying cap actually requires you to use some of your own... poor baby. NEUTs were cap destroyers to start with. NOS were too BUT they give you the cap in addition. Which would you use? Except in some special circumstances, you'd be pretty silly to use NEUTs. Now, NEUTs have their original purpose still and NOS have been modified to allow NEUT to have a reason to be used (to do the same job that NOS did before). So yeah... exactly. Now people will fit NEUT instead of NOS... exactly as it should have been from the start. Except you can still fit NOS defensively and it will still work just fine for those purposes.
Borasao Ex Coelis Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:37:00 - [138] Originally by: Depp Knight Yep Nerfing should mean to bring that module inline with other modules not make it totally useless. Exactly. NOS (when considered in conjunction with its brother the NEUT) has been brought inline with other modules in the game now and it still has good useage (at least, to pilots who have the ability to adapt).
Borasao Ex Coelis Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:39:00 - [139] Originally by: EgoMan Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 12:37:50 Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 12:37:06 Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 12:36:09 I dont understand, why would they nerf an already worthless weapon? I have a logistics set up that I run and I had to use 3 medium named nos and I still couldnt even remotely suppliment my cap. The only nos that even has a decent rate of transfer is the heavy and not every ship can run something that large. Ive never used one for PvP but to make the arguement that it lets small ships into PvP alone is rediculous. Now the small ships will have the advantage even more in PvP due to faster speeds and smaller signature radius without having to worry about losing there cap. Caldary missle frigates like the crow will dominate a large ship without help and thats just plain weak. If you want to bring smaller ships into pvp then go in groups, that only makes sence....but whatever. I dont use them for PvP anyways but now I wonder how It will effect my ability to do my job in PvE since the nos transefer rates sucked to begin with. Logistics ships can be fit to be cap regen monsters without NOS or even boosters. There's another module that kills cap even better called the neutralizer. If you're worried about Crows, use it instead and it'll even work better.
Borasao Ex Coelis Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:40:00 - [140] Originally by: EgoMan Shoot now that I think about it, this patch pretty much handed PvP completely over to the frigate classed ships. I dont see any negatives to running a small ship anymore no cap worries, plenty of speed to avouid turrets and reduced signature radius. Talk about unbalancing a game in one item change. NOS has a brother called a neutralizer... it's been in the game for a long time. Check it out.
Borasao Ex Coelis Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:43:00 - [141] Originally by: EgoMan I dont have one....but I agree the neut is the way to go. It just doesnt make any sence, Nos was an underpowered weapon to start with...now its even worse. Seems like a thoughtless change to me that almost crippled an entire playing style just to benefit another that really didnt need any benefits. Obviously, you've never encounted the DomiNOS or the MyrmiNOS or the NOShtar, or the... forget it... so many ships that equipped NOS as 1/2 their highs or more for PVP that there are too many to list.
Y3R M4W	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:44:00 - [142] I think the nurf is a good thing in more ways than it's a bad one, although the pilgrim and curse become less of a solo pawnmobile (just after I finished training for them ) it does mean that ships like the myrm and domi can be used in more imaginitive ways (full gank blastermyrm ftw) without being screwed over by the nos-whoring counterpart. Note: YER MAW! is Scottish for Your Mother.
Yokan Daifuku Gallente The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:21:00 - [143] Originally by: PhantomVyper Originally by: Yokan Daifuku See, no numbers. I showed you some of my numbers. Running a 'geddon for 2-2.5m without nos is ridiculous. I have yet to see any numbers supporting the nerf. If you are going to PVP it is a natural fit for close combat. Close range combat need tons of cap. The sounds of nerf supports sounds like I got ganked in my PvE ship and I might have had a chance if it wasn't for that nos. For PvP there is no more natural fit in hi slots where turrets won't fit. So use them don't complain about them. You gave numbers sure (actually you didn't, but lets pretend that you did), but you've also apparently failed to realize what this nerf is about. If you are flying a cap hungry ship like a pulse-geddon than this nerf won't affect you in any significant way, it is actually a very significant boost to Amarr close range ships (and Gallente as well to a lesser extent). Since you are using more cap than your opponent then the Nos that is fitted in your high slot will continue to help you sustain your cap and for that very same reason, enemy nosses won't have any effect on you. Why any Amarr pulse-ship pilot is against this change is something wich I have yet failed to understand... EFT, and a geddon setup was in a prior post. Originally by: Yokan Daifuku Try fitting a 'geddon with 7 pulse lasers, ab, webber, and a LAR 2. See how long the cap will last. I can show formulas too, upon request. ---- Yo-con Die-foo-koo
EgoMan	Posted - 2007.08.28 23:10:00 - [144] Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 23:12:12 Edited by: EgoMan on 28/08/2007 23:11:31 Originally by: Borasao Originally by: EgoMan I dont have one....but I agree the neut is the way to go. It just doesnt make any sence, Nos was an underpowered weapon to start with...now its even worse. Seems like a thoughtless change to me that almost crippled an entire playing style just to benefit another that really didnt need any benefits. Obviously, you've never encounted the DomiNOS or the MyrmiNOS or the NOShtar, or the... forget it... so many ships that equipped NOS as 1/2 their highs or more for PVP that there are too many to list. Oh i know, but all this talk of adapting to something and nobody seems to want to adapt to the range of a nos......They are extreamly short range modules asside from the heavy which is 25km. Why would people be so dumb as to not assume that if they get too close that there might be a NOS involved? Everyone and there mother use a warp scrambler I just assume that if im within range im gonna be scrambled. The only NOS that was even worth it was the heavy the others were pointless(completely)and not everyone can afford the cpu and powergrid to such luxuries. Thats why its a combat style, some people like to tank others like speed and fire power....some like to use more eccentric methods. I had two heavys on my ship and I would still rather go with a neut just because it gets the job done better for attacking. None the less, I like my NOS for PvE, not PvP.....I just feel that changes come down the pipe without enough thought sometimes and a little to much crying to get it done. So now what you have to do Is equip an energy transfere array on your ship and give your enemy cap so he cant steal yours.....lol J/k.

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