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Red Crown
Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.05.02 22:29:00 -
[1]
Thats rapidly becoming the sentiments of many thinkers in EVE's community. "50dreadscapitalyardstitanmotherships8carriersbuffniddnerfDDs". (Put a * before your post if you could read the above quote)
Eve is rapidly becoming a rough game for the little guy. The question is, can you tank a DD? Two? Three? This may be an issue now that BoB has inherited LV's titan.
DDs are - WTF overpowered BBQ rays (See many other posts) And most importantly, lag bombs. Face it, if your ship does survive, your systems won't just boot up again and you can start shooting. Your out of it for minutes at a time. I hate lag storms. Everyone does! And unless you take a lot of time, and some money, your not going to fight past that doomsday. Not everyone is ready to sacrifice battleships in fleet engagements, and thats what you need to live past that first DD.
Now, this weapon, this vessel which can cause players to whine, seriously consider "Screwing" fleet fights and going to rat instead, and send fear into their hearts must be one whollup of a something, right?
But, it really isn't. 120B gets you a titan from start to finish, IIRC, and thats not much. 2, 3 months savings for a major alliance followed by 2 months construction. Considering your Titan pilot was getting ready beforehand, your looking at 4 months for the start to finish of a brand new titan, cut 60B off the tag if you have the prints and you just want another.
Its not right. Titans were supposed to be the projects of entire races. D2 built 3, BoB built 2 so far, LV was to build 2, who knows who else has them in some maintence yard. And the power to DD and jump bridge a fleet in and be out again in 5 minutes is a power worthy of the title Titan. Mind you - I heard someone firmilliar with history once say the mighty Jove built 4 of these things. Official count stands at 7 for us.
Its too late to be retroactive to the current titans. For them the best we can hope for is a DD nerf, which is discussed in other forums.
I envisioned Titans as a year's project. Saving, planning, construction.
My idea for them? not tier 2 titans, A tier 2 titan. Imagine it taking thrice as long to build be thrice the price quadruple the HP actual power with its capital weapons and a DD that could cause serious hurt to capitals. Just a thought.
Moving on....
Motherships are, ironically, more or less ok. A price hike of 5Bn wouldn't hurt.
I think that carriers and dreads don't really have problems - the true problem with capital ships lies in the lack thereof.
There are 4 capitals for each race. Thats not enough. Different variations on the dreadnought are desperatly needed, dreads at the moment are one track and ineffective against ships much smaller than capitals. Carriers are a little on the small side as well. CCP needs to add flavour to the world of capitals or it will rapidly get more bland than it already is.
I'd write more but I'm bored and tired. Share ideas! Being positive and suggesting will probably get to CCP better than flat whining. Most of the time. - "The Mains Created the alts They rebelled They look...and feel...human Some are programmed to think they are human There are many alts. And they have a plan." - Forumstar Galactica |
ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.02 22:38:00 -
[2]
I would also lie to see some changes to skill training for dreadnoughts. Because of the missile skill tree i can train for a caldari dread faster than i can for an amarr dread. And I only have 300k sp in missiles, compared to 2mil in lasers. I only have caldari cruiser 3, and I have amarr bs 4 and i can still train for caldari faster.
I think it should be changed so that it takes the about same amount of time to train for each dread. I wanna fly a dread, but it will take me longer to get into the amarr dread (my native race) than to get into a caldari dread.
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arthell
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:18:00 -
[3]
So now instead of a Titan and a fleet of capital ships camping your system, we'll now have a Super Titan, and a smaller fleet of capital ships.
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Marquis Dean
Energy. Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:34:00 -
[4]
I think I disagree with every aspect of that, but I like your sig. ---
Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
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Qolde
Minmatar Guardian Heroes Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:45:00 -
[5]
No. Not every alliance that holds space deserves to hold space. Not every fleet battle will be DD'd. In this post Cap Ship era, battleships are merely the equivalent of a tech 1 tackling frigate. Eve will balance itself out eventually. Never get popped again! |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.03 01:00:00 -
[6]
More variation, as in, tiered-down carriers (T2 battleships, no weapon hardpoints, 5 - 10 fighters?), and smaller / more mobile dreads would fill the gap between current battleships and capitals, as well as add more variation the capital resumTe.
COAD: OMG bob post *flame flame flame* Kieron: DIE *ban* OMG bobdevs! log-in alt *flame flame flame* |
Adaris
Dark and Light inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 07:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Red Crown DDs are - WTF overpowered BBQ rays (See many other posts)
If you can't jump away within 5-10 minutes while a cyno is going up you deserv to die fair and square, the enemy had you scrambled/in bubble etc, so they deserve the kill.
Originally by: Red Crown Its not right. Titans were supposed to be the projects of entire races. D2 built 3, BoB built 2 so far, LV was to build 2, who knows who else has them in some maintence yard. And the power to DD and jump bridge a fleet in and be out again in 5 minutes is a power worthy of the title Titan. Mind you - I heard someone firmilliar with history once say the mighty Jove built 4 of these things. Official count stands at 7 for us.
yes.... 'officailly'.. lol Mate your right here that these vessels are so big and powerful that it is illogical to have every jack, jill and andrew able to fly them after years of meticulas training and hardwork, perhaps we should put a Titan cap on alliances? Only 1 Titan allowed active per alliance at any one time.?
Originally by: Red Crown There are 4 capitals for each race. Thats not enough. Different variations on the dreadnought are desperatly needed, dreads at the moment are one track and ineffective against ships much smaller than capitals. Carriers are a little on the small side as well. CCP needs to add flavour to the world of capitals or it will rapidly get more bland than it already is.
yes, qft * * * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euZ0j7vtKEQ
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.04 07:31:00 -
[8]
If you don't have the mental dexterity to see an anemy titan char in local and alway's be on your toe's you deserve to get bbq'd tbh. Why is it some can adapt and fight under the watchful eye of enemy titan's but other's cannot.
But, as was said in the other thread's your guy's are spamming just lately, increase the dd cooldown or half the damge through a cyno
BoB vs the coalition of family value's |
Long Mu
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Posted - 2007.05.04 07:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Adaris
If you can't jump away within 5-10 minutes while a cyno is going up you deserv to die fair and square, the enemy had you scrambled/in bubble etc, so they deserve the kill.
It helps if you understand how stuff works before you go out there and attempt to put people down. A cynofield is active the second the pilot clicks activate on the cynogen module. At that second, the Titan pilot can activate his DD. The people at the point of the cyno get a nice show giving them 10 seconds or so to get out of dodge.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.05.04 08:01:00 -
[10]
I think he refered to how titans were on the test server. With a great blinking notice "DD has been activated" with a countdown of some minutes. Not so now... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.04 08:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Long Mu
Originally by: Adaris
If you can't jump away within 5-10 minutes while a cyno is going up you deserv to die fair and square, the enemy had you scrambled/in bubble etc, so they deserve the kill.
It helps if you understand how stuff works before you go out there and attempt to put people down. A cynofield is active the second the pilot clicks activate on the cynogen module. At that second, the Titan pilot can activate his DD. The people at the point of the cyno get a nice show giving them 10 seconds or so to get out of dodge.
It's 15 second's and tbh, the second you see that cyno field pop up on the same grid, you should be hauling ass anyway. Hell, you should be fully aligned with a titan in local in anything bigger than a hac so if you get blasted, it's your own fault for not being prepared and/or adapting.
It's that simple . (coming from someone with a tenny bit of experience fighting alongside titan's )
BoB vs the coalition of family value's |
Adaris
Dark and Light inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 08:07:00 -
[12]
I appologise. * * * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euZ0j7vtKEQ
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.04 08:07:00 -
[13]
Did they have this discussion back when the first battleships were starting to appear, too?
Personally, I feel that cap ships make an interesting addition to EVE fleets. They're skill intensive, and isk intensive. 120bn + sovereignty + what, 30 freighterloads? 60? I forget, but it's a lot of components.
That's not going to be easy any time soon. The alliances that have built titans, have put a lot of effort in. And they're not even _remotely_ cost effective. For the same amount of money, you can outfit entire fleets of carriers or T2 battleships.
*shrug* about my only grumble is that dreads are pretty much vital to play sov-wars-online, but that's an opt in game.
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Xelios
Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.05.04 08:22:00 -
[14]
Quote: Hell, you should be fully aligned with a titan in local in anything bigger than a hac so if you get blasted, it's your own fault for not being prepared and/or adapting.
That's assuming you're not at a POS staring at a non-responsive UI of course...
Clicking warp doesn't always mean you're going to warp, and that's part of the problem too.
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Araxmas
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
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Posted - 2007.05.04 08:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Marquis Dean I think I disagree with every aspect of that, but I like your sig.
Hehe yeah nice sig there --------
Robbie Rotten left me |
Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.05.04 09:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ghosttr I would also lie to see some changes to skill training for dreadnoughts. Because of the missile skill tree i can train for a caldari dread faster than i can for an amarr dread. And I only have 300k sp in missiles, compared to 2mil in lasers. I only have caldari cruiser 3, and I have amarr bs 4 and i can still train for caldari faster.
I think it should be changed so that it takes the about same amount of time to train for each dread. I wanna fly a dread, but it will take me longer to get into the amarr dread (my native race) than to get into a caldari dread.
Yep I hate this too granted guns are slightly better than missiles but come on the skill tree for guns is beyond a joke !!!
Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
Techmart Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.04 09:57:00 -
[17]
And if you want your BS to easily last at least one DD spend 15-20mill and fill all your lows lots with Reinforced Bulkheads II and a damage control II. In a geddon that means your ship has a 92500hp passive omni tank on top of the hitpoints added by shield and armour.
*snip*not needed - hutch |
Tulakh
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Posted - 2007.05.04 10:05:00 -
[18]
Every gun is affected by size / speed / distance of the target they try to hit, however a doomsday always hits with the full damage. What would be better to do is to give the doomsday device the same limitation, they hit hard on capitals (big, slow ships) but they only scratch an frigate (although the frigate still wont be able to survive likely).
Barring that from an cruiser / heavy assault cruiser tanked to the specific DD damage it should have a chance it survives specially if its signature is kept small enough to let the mayority of the damage pass.
This obviously wont help a stacked DD but it allready makes it a bit more costy / harder to instapop an whole fleet. additionally spider tanks could give an benefit here incase they can repair fast enough and prevent their mates from dieing.
For example you have 5 battleships and 5 dreads, fit each with 1 armor and/or shield remote repairer and have everyone target the "next person in line" so everyone shares a tank, someone in the line being taken out the one looseing target lock switches to the next in line. This combined would make crippling an enemy fleet alot harder additional to the disadvantage the fleet that got dd'ed can roam arround now freely, set up an gank and even be able to turn the tide (this is what is laching currently, the ability to do so).
Titans should be *a* weapon to fight off blobs (and dicourage them) but not THE way to instapop atleast not trough a cyno. Cyno DD's should either be severly crippled (say 50% on first cyno then the battlefield must remember a cyno went off and next one should be stacking penalised harshly so it just means your shooting blanks), no safe spot doomsdaying at all or make a distance factor (1 jump away = 50% power while each jump means it gets lowered with 10% of the remaining %'age). This just means if you want to field the full damage you have to show your titan(s) nothing more nothing less (and no this is not a BOB nerf anymore then it is a nerf to their enemy's as both sides will be affected).
Just remember this most important thing: how would you like it if you play, skill and work your character for 3 years then some addition is made like say bank account hacking / hangar hacking / viral diseases and in 1 click of a button someone empties your wallet / hangar and corrupts your clone to 0 SP (obviously exegurated but anyway think of it). Im sure you would be really mad and quit eve right away, this is how people who are not capital pilots and do not wish to become one either start feeling in 0.0 when they organise for hours and get a 20 second show before they are DD'ed, wrapped up in a box and send back their merry way.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 10:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: fire 59 If you don't have the mental dexterity to see an anemy titan char in local and alway's be on your toe's you deserve to get bbq'd tbh. Why is it some can adapt and fight under the watchful eye of enemy titan's but other's cannot.
But, as was said in the other thread's your guy's are spamming just lately, increase the dd cooldown or half the damge through a cyno
How does mental dexterity save me from lag?
signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Bedrock
Minmatar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.04 10:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: fire 59 If you don't have the mental dexterity to see an anemy titan char in local and alway's be on your toe's you deserve to get bbq'd tbh. Why is it some can adapt and fight under the watchful eye of enemy titan's but other's cannot.
But, as was said in the other thread's your guy's are spamming just lately, increase the dd cooldown or half the damge through a cyno
How does mental dexterity save me from lag?
LAG?! What Lag?
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.04 10:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: fire 59 If you don't have the mental dexterity to see an anemy titan char in local and alway's be on your toe's you deserve to get bbq'd tbh. Why is it some can adapt and fight under the watchful eye of enemy titan's but other's cannot.
But, as was said in the other thread's your guy's are spamming just lately, increase the dd cooldown or half the damge through a cyno
How does mental dexterity save me from lag?
Lag goes both way's, and most of the nuking's that have been dished out haven't had that much lag so that's abit of a weak fall back. I recently gt nuked because of 300+ in system, was aligned but couldn't warp out. Did i complain about lag and dd being overpowered? Nope, got in another ship and got on with it. Why have certain forces been hit so little and others hit so much. Lag affects alot of battles but why haven't certain parties learnt/tanked/adapted?
Whining is the last recourse for the weak.
BoB vs the coalition of family value's |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 11:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: fire 59
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: fire 59 If you don't have the mental dexterity to see an anemy titan char in local and alway's be on your toe's you deserve to get bbq'd tbh. Why is it some can adapt and fight under the watchful eye of enemy titan's but other's cannot.
But, as was said in the other thread's your guy's are spamming just lately, increase the dd cooldown or half the damge through a cyno
How does mental dexterity save me from lag?
Lag goes both way's, and most of the nuking's that have been dished out haven't had that much lag so that's abit of a weak fall back. I recently gt nuked because of 300+ in system, was aligned but couldn't warp out. Did i complain about lag and dd being overpowered? Nope, got in another ship and got on with it. Why have certain forces been hit so little and others hit so much. Lag affects alot of battles but why haven't certain parties learnt/tanked/adapted?
Whining is the last recourse for the weak.
And cheating is the first recourse of the strong I guess
Anyway, I don't think we will ever agree on this. But what I have seen is that titans seriously discourage any kind of engagement, much more than any other kind of ship. Sure, your opponent can have 50 BS and you only have 10, but if you pay close attention, you can either fighterbomb him or snipe off a few careless ships at the edge.
But when it comes to fleet warfare, there is no fighting a titan. And in the not too distant future, nobody will be able to build any more titans except for those who already have them. It takes what? 2 months? to construct in a very vulnerable POS which can be easily destroyed by any force with a titan and enough of a dreadfleet, and impossible to be defended by anyone, as LV and yourself have found out.
Which would leave us with: - no more interesting fleet battles, since anything more than a small gang will likely attract the attention of a titan. - political map slowly growing stale as the number of titan wielding alliances can never increase, and probably will slowly decrease over time.
While CCP might be able to keep the churnrate of new players high and thereby their financial situation sound enough, I would assume even the few older players that would remain in such a world get bored at some point as there are few challenges left and most is just small ganks or instant death at the hands of a DD.
Sad really. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Karunel
Princeps Corp YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.05.04 11:17:00 -
[23]
Quote: Whining is the last recourse for the weak.
*Sigh*
There's been an incredible amount of feedback from peoples in BOTH SIDES of the Conflict, from people in alliances with and without titans, from people who have and haven't been in the receiving end of a titan; I think it's easy to accept and understand that Titans, more specifically their Doomsday Devices, are something BAD for the health of this game we all love.
This is hardly about "whining" this is about seeing something very wrong with this game and screaming about it. ____
Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.05.04 11:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Red Crown Its not right. Titans were supposed to be the projects of entire races. D2 built 3, BoB built 2 so far, LV was to build 2, who knows who else has them in some maintence yard. And the power to DD and jump bridge a fleet in and be out again in 5 minutes is a power worthy of the title Titan. Mind you - I heard someone firmilliar with history once say the mighty Jove built 4 of these things. Official count stands at 7 for us.
Its too late to be retroactive to the current titans. For them the best we can hope for is a DD nerf, which is discussed in other forums.
At present it is almost impossible to destroy a titan in the hands of a competent pilot. Only bubbles can hold them in place, and those can be destroyed in short order. Unless their EW immunity is removed, or some other way of holding supercapitals in place is added, we need a means to destroy one that could be effective within a 2-minute window of opportunity; the time it takes for a titan's capacitor to reach the 71.25% level needed to jump, plus any extra time gained via bubbles. I'd appreciate clarification on the exact numbers involved here - is the required cap % for jumping all actually used when making a jump or not? To put it another way, what % cap does a capital ship have left immediately after making a jump?
My preferred solution would be to give stealth bombers some sort of devastating anti-capital bombs, so that a large enough squadron would be able to take down a titan within the available time before it jumps out. It would require many highly specialised pilots, expensive ammunition, and perfect co-ordination, but it would be possible.
One of the devs, LeMonde, seems to think that it should be possible to take down a titan with about 20 people. His proposed method involves massed dreadnoughts and carriers (most of which would typically survive). For balancing purposes, I'd suggest that the total cost of the anti-capital bombs required to take down a titan should be something of the order of 5bn isk (or equivalent in minerals).
Any thoughts?
------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 11:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Karunel
Quote: Whining is the last recourse for the weak.
*Sigh*
There's been an incredible amount of feedback from peoples in BOTH SIDES of the Conflict, from people in alliances with and without titans, from people who have and haven't been in the receiving end of a titan; I think it's easy to accept and understand that Titans, more specifically their Doomsday Devices, are something BAD for the health of this game we all love.
This is hardly about "whining" this is about seeing something very wrong with this game and screaming about it.
Thanks, good to see we can still discuss this without the usual heckling.
My first recollection of a fleetfight was against BoB. I think it was their easter egg hunt. About 70ish of them I think (more than a year ago, my memory of it faded a bit) and slightly more of us I think (80-90). We met somewhere along the AZN to K-9 pipe. both sides had lots of BS and after moving a few systems up and down the pipe we finally jumped into BoB.
about 100 BS squaring off against each other in 2 fleets, primaries were called, battleships going down on both sides(ours went down a bit faster though), I remember warping out to a planet in my scorpion when I was getting shot, finishing off a BoB Megathron with some help who warped out to the same spot, then getting obliterated when I warped back in. We lost the engagement, but that was the real thrill of Eve for me. Two fleets, lots of BS, squaring off at 150km range, ships exploding here and there, warping out, warping back in. Getting nervous about crows screaming in at 10km/s to tackle, relief when they got popped. That was fun.
How would that engagement have went in this day and age? One side would have setup a titan, some bubbles on the gate. Other side jumps in, seconds later, cyno, bright light, fight is over. One guy in his titan giggling on TS then DCing for a moment due to the amount of killmails he gets spammed withby the system. Is that supposed to be fun? signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Illyria Ambri
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.04 11:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
One of the devs, LeMonde, seems to think that it should be possible to take down a titan with about 20 people. His proposed method involves massed dreadnoughts and carriers (most of which would typically survive). For balancing purposes, I'd suggest that the total cost of the anti-capital bombs required to take down a titan should be something of the order of 5bn isk (or equivalent in minerals).
Any thoughts?
Yea.. someone needs their head examined...
Hmm take out an anti-blob titan.. with a capship blob...
Damn good advice /sarcasim
------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Happiness is a warm railgun, Love is a stocked missle launcher. Sexual extacy is watching that NME Battleship go boom.
"Will i |
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2007.05.04 11:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Sad really.
This is why Fire talked about whinning. You keep rambling the sky is falling the sky is falling and mix it up with some assumptions you represent here as the only way possible.
Eve currently is in a very huge universal war. This means the conflict is very focussed on certain factions and their superassets. However they dont represent "all of eve" nor "all of 0.0". If this conflict ends we will hopefully come back to "Rise vs neighbours" or "d2 vs locals" in which case a titan can play a role but where the amount of "all coalition supercapitals" doesnt make a difference anymore.
The best example is the establishment. They have had their nyx for ages and it did them good service. Even if they had a titan it would not make a huge difference unless ure fighting them. In this universal war we see everyone fighting everyone so naturally a titan will never run short of places he could DD, i would even say we see a Titan DD every day. The main difference however is that due to the widespread nature of enemies and difference in first hand knowledge ull always find someone "dumb" to catch. While a foe who fights a titan on a daily basis will develop a certain measure of countertactics.
I personally would like to see Titan tanks boosted, Remote DD removed and Capital warpscramblers (only for dreads and carriers) implemented. No other changes need to be made as everything else will level itself out in the longrun once the political situation turns back to normal. As for the training time issue somenoe mentioned i agree that all capitals should be in line and their boni should also be looked at (hello minmatar carriers/moms) but certainly we dont need more combat capitals.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.04 11:42:00 -
[28]
* omgcapitalsaretehsh!formining
Help me help you. |
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.05.04 11:44:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 04/05/2007 11:45:29
Originally by: ghosttr I would also lie to see some changes to skill training for dreadnoughts. Because of the missile skill tree i can train for a caldari dread faster than i can for an amarr dread. And I only have 300k sp in missiles, compared to 2mil in lasers. I only have caldari cruiser 3, and I have amarr bs 4 and i can still train for caldari faster.
Train for a Naglfar, then you need to train both trees. But if you look at the whole number of skillpoints involved to pilot a dread well with jump drive calibration and all that, let's say all relevant skills at 4, then the capital turret or citadel torpedo skill doesn't matter that much. Usually you have those gunnery and/or missile skills already anyway, because most people skill for a bs with tech-2 fitting, before they think about dreads. ___________ Muuuhhh !!! |
fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.04 11:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Karunel
Quote: Whining is the last recourse for the weak.
*Sigh*
There's been an incredible amount of feedback from peoples in BOTH SIDES of the Conflict, from people in alliances with and without titans, from people who have and haven't been in the receiving end of a titan; I think it's easy to accept and understand that Titans, more specifically their Doomsday Devices, are something BAD for the health of this game we all love.
This is hardly about "whining" this is about seeing something very wrong with this game and screaming about it.
Well it is a discussion and everyone is entitled to there opinion. The only reason these thread's have sprung up fyi, is because a certain person from a certain entity asked for the issue to be spammed and try to force a change because it was stopping certain, ahem, tactic's
Btw malachon, i tend to speak fairly passionately about certain issues so please don't take my post an an attack per se upon you.
BoB vs the coalition of family value's |
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