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Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
123
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Posted - 2017.03.24 20:06:40 -
[1] - Quote
I have too much brain activity on Friday...
Eve is made by players, run by players and built by players.
If everything is manufactured by players, who made the first ships and structures, and with what?
If it wasn't for bad luck I would have no luck at all.
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Zirashi
Cyclical Destruction
65
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Posted - 2017.03.24 20:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP made the first ships and structures. With lines of code. |
Daemun Khanid
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
701
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Posted - 2017.03.24 20:10:01 -
[3] - Quote
Your assumption is incorrect and therefore the question is invalid.
Daemun of Khanid
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Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
123
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Posted - 2017.03.24 20:13:06 -
[4] - Quote
Are CCP still adding ships and stuff? I read that they have financial people keeping an eye on ingame economics to avoid total disaster.
To avoid real life.
If it wasn't for bad luck I would have no luck at all.
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Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
124
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Posted - 2017.03.24 20:16:41 -
[5] - Quote
Zirashi wrote:CCP made the first ships and structures. With lines of code.
A fair misunderstanding of poor choice of words.
I meant what tools the first players had?
If it wasn't for bad luck I would have no luck at all.
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Vash Bloodstone
The Chiaotzu Doctrine
26
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Posted - 2017.03.24 20:32:44 -
[6] - Quote
"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an Tengu and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to build a frigate without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your ammo by means of nothing but physical motionsGÇôand youGÇÖll learn that manGÇÖs mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed in New Eden." |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
29900
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Posted - 2017.03.24 20:36:11 -
[7] - Quote
I am still trying to build warp drive in my garage.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Mijel Riak
Extensive Enterprises Space
63
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Posted - 2017.03.24 20:52:06 -
[8] - Quote
...an egg that was not laid by a chicken... |
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
124
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Posted - 2017.03.24 20:54:33 -
[9] - Quote
Mijel Riak wrote:...an egg that was not laid by a chicken...
Most mitochondrial DNA lineages found today in contemporary Icelanders can be traced to the native populations in Ireland and Scotland and Scandinavia.
If it wasn't for bad luck I would have no luck at all.
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
483
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Posted - 2017.03.24 20:56:12 -
[10] - Quote
You know, a rookie ship does come with a civilian miner module. It could take a long time but as long as you have that you can get into the economy. CCP made the rookie ships, then players make anything bigger than that, it's a pretty obvious question.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
124
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Posted - 2017.03.24 21:02:27 -
[11] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:You know, a rookie ship does come with a civilian miner module. It could take a long time but as long as you have that you can get into the economy. CCP made the rookie ships, then players make anything bigger than that, it's a pretty obvious question.
I think its a fascinating and bold move if Eve actually started like that.
If it wasn't for bad luck I would have no luck at all.
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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4975
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Posted - 2017.03.24 22:54:28 -
[12] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Are CCP still adding ships and stuff? I read that they have financial people keeping an eye on ingame economics to avoid total disaster.
To avoid real life. There used to be a professional economist watching and balancing things, but he left. I don't think they ever replaced him, but I'm not sure. Actually Eve having an onboard economist was a big selling point for me when I started. "Holy crap, this game's economy is so intricate, reactive to market forces, and realistic it needs an economist? And this game company put one on the payroll? How amazingly excellent is that?"
Too bad CCP doesn't occasionally mention the economy in their marketing/P.R. If I say to my other adult friends "I play a game about spaceships fighting each other," they just look kind of uncomfortable and don't know what to say. But if I say "I play an online game with 100s of thousands of players competing in an intricate, realistic, hyper-capitalist economy," they get interested. |
Vigirr
313
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Posted - 2017.03.24 23:04:08 -
[13] - Quote
As the game didn't have a real tutorial or any sort of career agents back then, mining in the starting ships (now called corvettes) is what started it all. |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
29905
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Posted - 2017.03.24 23:08:39 -
[14] - Quote
There will be economy presentation as on every fanfest. I think, that since CCP Dr.EyjoG left, they use the analytics team as previously, where CCP Quant works for long time. He publishes economic reports monthly.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
547
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Posted - 2017.03.25 00:42:36 -
[15] - Quote
The egg came before the chicken, because of evolution. The first chicken egg was laid by something that wasn't a chicken.
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Lexia Nova
GeneSia-IRC Axiom Vocation Alliance
13
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Posted - 2017.03.25 01:04:53 -
[16] - Quote
Ah I saw the answer to this in a dank meme video recently - The answer is the Chegg |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2629
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Posted - 2017.03.25 01:07:58 -
[17] - Quote
Easy. Eve spontaneously came into existence when first time a Viking wrote a line of code. That Viking amazed at what Eve was logged in and was immediately podded by his best friend who found it earlier. That second Viking sold the login link to another Viking for a fortune but gave the third viking a previously used Plex for his isks. And with that Eve came into the world. That first Viking spends his days spinning a Rifter in a station somewhere in Jove space. He is the first bitter vet. |
stoicfaux
6279
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Posted - 2017.03.25 01:09:24 -
[18] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote: If everything is manufactured by players, who made the first ships and structures, and with what?
Earth did. With the same stuff we use now.
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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mkint
1675
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Posted - 2017.03.25 02:11:38 -
[19] - Quote
Pretty sure there used to be NPC seeds for some ships on the market. Just like how skillbooks are NPC seeded now. I wasn't around then, but gossip is never wrong.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Cookie
Snakeoil Industries Ltd.
13
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Posted - 2017.03.25 03:33:13 -
[20] - Quote
Along with the ship seeds there were also npc buy orders for minerals 1,4,16,64...4096 isk for them.
WTB DeLorian with cargo rigs |
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Skydell
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
694
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Posted - 2017.03.25 03:47:26 -
[21] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:I have too much brain activity on Friday...
Eve is made by players, run by players and built by players.
If everything is manufactured by players, who made the first ships and structures, and with what?
in 2003 there were T1 frigates and cruisers. Might have been battle cruisers but no battleships. You could reproc high sec drop modules for any and all minerals needed to make cruisers and if you were lucky you got meta 4 modules while you farmed reproc that you could then fit the ship with. BPO's were a lot cheaper and when you put it all together, we made them. Just like we do now.
So to answer the question, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Jamyl Sarum did and she was conceived from divine intervention. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6272
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Posted - 2017.03.25 08:04:21 -
[22] - Quote
The dinosaur.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Beta Maoye
151
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Posted - 2017.03.25 09:50:50 -
[23] - Quote
The body of EVE is built by artists and programmers. The soul of EVE is forged by players. |
Revis Owen
The Conference Elite CODE.
488
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Posted - 2017.03.25 10:46:26 -
[24] - Quote
In the beginning, James 315 created everything in Eve in six days and rested on the seventh day. That's what I heard, but that might be more legend than fact. He later took physical form a few years ago and came to highsec as a messiah. He is now the duly elected Savior of Highsec. That I know to be fact.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
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Chopper Rollins
Far Beyond Triggered
1802
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Posted - 2017.03.25 11:08:48 -
[25] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote: realistic, hyper-capitalist economy,
As realistic as any environment where hyper-capitalism works, where environmental resources spawn infinitely, cannot pollute or be polluted and there are no women or children to consider. Don't get me wrong, i've played most days since 2009. The appeal is to that part of the mind that enjoys play and relishes playing with or against other real people. The violence is largely inconsequential, though. In real life, violence would be great fun if it weren't for the fact that there's people out there that really want to hurt you.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
129
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Posted - 2017.03.25 11:35:21 -
[26] - Quote
So
CCP would step in and avoid a disaster if the economy would spiral out of control?
They could also fill demands to avoid complete monopoly or complete corporate unbalance?
If it wasn't for bad luck I would have no luck at all.
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Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
129
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Posted - 2017.03.25 11:39:11 -
[27] - Quote
Found this:
https://youtu.be/Shhhn6lu0Nc?t=399
If it wasn't for bad luck I would have no luck at all.
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Salvos Rhoska
2556
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Posted - 2017.03.25 14:00:55 -
[28] - Quote
CCP is the chicken. EVE is the egg.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6273
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Posted - 2017.03.25 19:07:17 -
[29] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:So
CCP would step in and avoid a disaster if the economy would spiral out of control?
They could also fill demands to avoid complete monopoly or complete corporate unbalance?
Maybe. We don't know how much or how little CCP intervenes in the in game economy. Presumably if there was a serious negative feedback loop CCP would intervene in some manner. However, such loops, IMO, are rare and are often caused by such intervention in the first place.
Regarding monopoly, I would say, "No." At least not directly. We have had instances of oligopoly with explicit collusion which can get you to the monopoly outcome. For example, OTEC (the Organization of Technetium Exporting Coalitions) controlled pretty much all of the technetium production and managed to drive the price quite high. Eventually CCP did "intervene", but not by breaking up OTEC directly or the like. They changed how moon goo was used in producing T2 modules and ships thus ending the "bottleneck" that made technetium so valuable.
Similarly with T2 BPOs. Early on that was the only way to get T2 items and ships and you got them via a lottery after running so many R&D missions. So if you had the only T2 BPO for a given item you were a monopolist and could set the price at a very high level. Even when more than one T2 BPO appeared in game, my understanding is sometimes players would get together and again form cartels (oligopoly again) with the express purpose of limiting output and maximizing profits. Again CCP "intervened" but basically stopped the lottery system and introduced invention. This put an end to the cartels for the most part because if they drove the price up inventors would enter the market and drive the price back down.
But note in both cases these problems arose because of previous interventions by CCP. CCP was the motivating factor behind OTEC. Basically there have been two (that I know of) changes to how moon goo are used in making T2 products. The first change made technetium the bottleneck...ooops. The second undid that first change, more or less.
Same thing with the T2 BPO lottery. By making the supply so limited CCP set the conditions for monopolies and cartels. Ooops.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6273
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Posted - 2017.03.25 19:20:41 -
[30] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Khergit Deserters wrote: realistic, hyper-capitalist economy, As realistic as any environment where hyper-capitalism works, where environmental resources spawn infinitely, cannot pollute or be polluted and there are no women or children to consider. Don't get me wrong, i've played most days since 2009. The appeal is to that part of the mind that enjoys play and relishes playing with or against other real people. The violence is largely inconsequential, though. In real life, violence would be great fun if it weren't for the fact that there's people out there that really want to hurt you.
The infinite respawning in necessary in the game because innovation is heavily constrained. IRL we get innovation which leads to productivity growth--i.e. making more stuff with less inputs. There is a considerable incentive to do this. If you are the first firm to implement a given innovation you'll essentially lower your costs while the price is unchanged thereby earning economic profits. You'll continue to earn those profits until other firms start to implement the innovation or another innovation and then the price will start to come down.
This process is why England never ran out of coal even though William Stanley Jevons was deeply worried about it. People also became deeply worried about oil too giving rise to the Hubbert Curve and peak oil. Of course, then along came fracking which pretty much blew the Hubbert curve out of the water. And with innovations in terms of solar, there is now considerable interest in electrification of much of the economy--e.g. electric cars or PEVs (plug in electrical vehicles).
These kinds of innovations and productivity gains in EVE are hard to come by with just players note I said, hard not impossible. And my guess is sometimes they are actually "bugs". For example, putting cargo expanders on iteron Vs and then putting stuff in them, and then putting them into carriers and jumping them out to HS, in effect, created the prototype for jump freighters. Whichever pilot(s) first figured that out was quite innovative. But my guess is that was not CCP's intent. They probably found it interesting that players found that out and made good use of it though. But this is definitely a boost to productivity in that you can move more stuff with fewer inputs (jump fuel, LO, and player time).
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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