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How many more players must we lose to bullying

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Dom Arkaral The Conference Elite CODE. 1150	Posted - 2017.04.03 17:16:35 - [751] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Mr Mieyli wrote: baltec1 wrote: The people that pvp are not the ones the have and still do demand the removal of other people's gameplay and content. That's your opinion man, I say that at times the gameplay / content I want IS removed by gankers. Whenever someone says "I just want to be left in peace" is an example of their content being removed by someone else. It's all viewpoints. Have you ever played in a sandbox somewhere irl? You can have your own personal objective, but so does the others And if the others want to break your little sandcastle, you simply have to fight back instead of crying lol Same applies here... You want to be safe, you have to actively work towards that... Because no one else will do it for you The thing your ilk fails to understand is that when a sandbox becomes a litterbox nobody will play in it. The community was never so toxic. The sandbox was about sand, not about bonking smaller kids over the head with the pail and shovel and then pointing and laughing. Who wants to voluntarily log into that? (people who lack agency and feel they "need" to I guess - they probably conduct their sorry lives outside the game like that too). Oh yes I am like that irl I also run over people in streets, steal cars, cut heads, shout at dragons, Fly WW2 planes, drive tanks, assassinate Cartel people You think that what we are ingame is what we are irl... you couldn't be more wrong hahahah Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome CCL Loyalist
Trasch Taranogas State War Academy Caldari State 142	Posted - 2017.04.03 17:17:26 - [752] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Trasch Taranogas wrote: Another quote from the auto industry. Chairman: -Why wont you do anything to minimise the death toll on our roads? CEO: -Its not our fault, drivers make the mistakes. Chairman: -Why do they have to die if they make a mistake? CEO: -because you can't patch stupid, like people who drive drunk or too damn fast. Context is everything. After that hearing seatbelts and retractable steering columns became mandatory. If you can't beat them, join them.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 549	Posted - 2017.04.03 17:20:50 - [753] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: baltec1 wrote: Mr Mieyli wrote: baltec1 wrote: The people that pvp are not the ones the have and still do demand the removal of other people's gameplay and content. That's your opinion man, I say that at times the gameplay / content I want IS removed by gankers. Whenever someone says "I just want to be left in peace" is an example of their content being removed by someone else. It's all viewpoints. There is a very real difference between you choosing to not do something because you fear other players and people not being able to do something because the mechanics were changed to make it impossible. What on earth are you talking about? If I am travelling, missioning, mining, whatever, and get ganked explain to me how I am afraid? Is it not that the mechanics made it impossible for me to achieve my goal? You will say, no it's players, I will say it's players enabled by mechanics. Highsec players with no intent to pvp are victimised by eves mechanics. Wrong, that player made mistakes and was punished for it. You're arguing against a play style and you're arguing against a skill index. "Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 1371	Posted - 2017.04.03 17:31:34 - [754] - Quote I want this thread to beat the dumbo lowsec changes one. Keep up the echo chamber guys @lunettelulu7
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 8813	Posted - 2017.04.03 17:33:47 - [755] - Quote Trasch Taranogas wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Trasch Taranogas wrote: Another quote from the auto industry. Chairman: -Why wont you do anything to minimise the death toll on our roads? CEO: -Its not our fault, drivers make the mistakes. Chairman: -Why do they have to die if they make a mistake? CEO: -because you can't patch stupid, like people who drive drunk or too damn fast. Context is everything. After that hearing seatbelts and retractable steering columns became mandatory. And people still die because of speeding and drunk driving. What was your point exactly? Seatbelts and retractable steering columns are not mandatory for the sake of protecting people against their own stupidness, but to mitigate the risk of damage from other people's stupidness. It doesn't stop people from being stupid, not even in the slightest. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore 15501	Posted - 2017.04.03 17:47:42 - [756] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: Eve is what it is, but I can see it as more than that, with the addition of a more casual friendly area of space. So you say you want casual.. How about a Simulation mode? It would work like this. You could launch a 'simulation' of EVe Online where you can do anything you want in your own private universe, just you and NPCs. You could run missions, or invite others into your simulation and run group content like incursions, or PVP, or build stuff etc etc. The catch is that NOTHING, not one mined mineral, not one isk, not one loyalty point, not one finished project could come into or have any affect on the "real" EVE universe. Sound good to you? It would be a place where you could go and "just play the game and be left alone". That's what you want, right?
Verlyn Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 83	Posted - 2017.04.03 17:48:23 - [757] - Quote THE RENT IS JUST TOO DAMN HIGH
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6301	Posted - 2017.04.03 17:55:29 - [758] - Quote DRDNOUGHT wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Chris Ishar wrote: Just to remind you that almost every page was people bullying each other and back to the topic I still don't get how you bully someone on something that can be turned off at will. Cambridge Dictionary definition of "Bullying" nÇàGÇï "Someone who hurts or frightens someone who is smaller or less powerful, often forcing them to do something that they do not want to do" LIke switch off and stop playing.........is that what you mean Jenn ? Actually blowing up your ship is not bullying because you came through our gate camp (weren't watching local when a hostile came in while you were ratting, overloaded your freighter while autopiloting, etc.). These are all normal forms of game play: consequences. If you want to get someplace where players have a greater ability to shoot you...expect to be shot. This is a game of consequences and rewards. Make a mistake, you suffer the consequences. Avoid mistakes you can reap the rewards. The consequences are largely imposed by other players which makes for an interesting and challenging dynamic vs. something that is predictable and easily min-maxed. And harassment is already against the EULA--i.e. bullying. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6302	Posted - 2017.04.03 17:57:19 - [759] - Quote Trasch Taranogas wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Trasch Taranogas wrote: Another quote from the auto industry. Chairman: -Why wont you do anything to minimise the death toll on our roads? CEO: -Its not our fault, drivers make the mistakes. Chairman: -Why do they have to die if they make a mistake? CEO: -because you can't patch stupid, like people who drive drunk or too damn fast. Context is everything. After that hearing seatbelts and retractable steering columns became mandatory. False equivalence is fun. Can I play too? If I blow up your pod am I real lifer murderer. Please don't post daft nonsense. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6302	Posted - 2017.04.03 18:00:37 - [760] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Mr Mieyli wrote: baltec1 wrote: The people that pvp are not the ones the have and still do demand the removal of other people's gameplay and content. That's your opinion man, I say that at times the gameplay / content I want IS removed by gankers. Whenever someone says "I just want to be left in peace" is an example of their content being removed by someone else. It's all viewpoints. Have you ever played in a sandbox somewhere irl? You can have your own personal objective, but so does the others And if the others want to break your little sandcastle, you simply have to fight back instead of crying lol Same applies here... You want to be safe, you have to actively work towards that... Because no one else will do it for you The thing your ilk fails to understand is that when a sandbox becomes a litterbox nobody will play in it. The community was never so toxic. The sandbox was about sand, not about bonking smaller kids over the head with the pail and shovel and then pointing and laughing. Who wants to voluntarily log into that? (people who lack agency and feel they "need" to I guess - they probably conduct their sorry lives outside the game like that too). Right Mo0 did not have that effect at all. Those are some mighty fine rose tinted glasses. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Alexander Bor Polaris Global 16	Posted - 2017.04.03 18:10:30 - [761] - Quote Regarding wardecing, everything is simple. Rise the CONCORD tax to the level when wardecing cannot be a kind of business. So the possibility to be able destroy bases and ships in high-sec remains if it will be needed from some specific principles only.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 549	Posted - 2017.04.03 18:12:49 - [762] - Quote Alexander Bor wrote: Regarding wardecing, everything is simple. Rise the CONCORD tax to the level when wardecing cannot be a kind of business. So the possibility to be able destroy bases and ships in high-sec remains if it will be needed from some specific principles only. Mercenary work has been all but removed anyway. May as hammer that final nail in the coffin. "Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6302	Posted - 2017.04.03 18:15:38 - [763] - Quote Alexander Bor wrote: Regarding wardecing, everything is simple. Rise the CONCORD tax to the level when wardecing cannot be a kind of business. So the possibility to be able destroy bases and ships in high-sec remains if it will be needed from some specific principles only. You mean you aren't safe enough already by avoiding trade hubs/routes, living in out of the way systems where you are unlikely to be bothered at all? That you keep your more expensive stuff docked? That if push comes to shove you can "nope-out" by dropping all but a care-taker alt out of your corp to NPC corps till the war is over? Really? You are just that frightened? BTW: Sisi is that way => No PvP there unless consensual except in a handful of designated systems. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 28102	Posted - 2017.04.03 18:23:14 - [764] - Quote Alexander Bor wrote: Regarding wardecing, everything is simple. Rise the CONCORD tax to the level when wardecing cannot be a kind of business. So the possibility to be able destroy bases and ships in high-sec remains if it will be needed from some specific principles only. The basic wardec fee has already been increased by 2400%. Wardecs are an intended mechanic, CCP crafted the Crimewatch mechanic and flagging system to allow a robust selection of scenarios for engaging in PvP anywhere in the Eve universe, including hisec. They are unlikely to tax wardecs out of existence, because a wardecced corp already has multiple options for dealing with the threat. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Shae Tadaruwa science and trade institute Caldari State 1623	Posted - 2017.04.03 18:33:21 - [765] - Quote Alexander Bor wrote: Regarding wardecing, everything is simple. Rise the CONCORD tax to the level when wardecing cannot be a kind of business. So the possibility to be able destroy bases and ships in high-sec remains if it will be needed from some specific principles only. Why? CCP specifically wanted wars to be a business model when they last changed the mechanics. They've also progressively made more things in the game destroyable; and are still doing so. CCP like destruction in the game. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 28105	Posted - 2017.04.03 18:38:52 - [766] - Quote In addition to my post above, I think that he should be careful what he wishes for, he might get it. The effects of such a change would have repercussions for everybody, the people that asked for it most of all for In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Zanar Skwigelf Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra 119	Posted - 2017.04.03 18:56:18 - [767] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Was before you started playing and will be long after you've gone. Where have I heard that before? Oh. Right. Oops. (I was trying to find the post where Baltec1 caught the character sale but couldn't find it anywhere ) edit: found it.
Verlyn Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 83	Posted - 2017.04.03 19:14:53 - [768] - Quote Zanar Skwigelf wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Was before you started playing and will be long after you've gone. Where have I heard that before? Oh. Right. Oops. (I was trying to find the post where Baltec1 caught the character sale but couldn't find it anywhere ) edit: found it. lol wrecked
Trasch Taranogas State War Academy Caldari State 142	Posted - 2017.04.03 20:14:12 - [769] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Trasch Taranogas wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Trasch Taranogas wrote: Another quote from the auto industry. Chairman: -Why wont you do anything to minimise the death toll on our roads? CEO: -Its not our fault, drivers make the mistakes. Chairman: -Why do they have to die if they make a mistake? CEO: -because you can't patch stupid, like people who drive drunk or too damn fast. Context is everything. After that hearing seatbelts and retractable steering columns became mandatory. And people still die because of speeding and drunk driving. What was your point exactly? Seatbelts and retractable steering columns are not mandatory for the sake of protecting people against their own stupidness, but to mitigate the risk of damage from other people's stupidness and legitimate unavoidable accidents. It doesn't stop people from being stupid, not even in the slightest. No, you cant save them all. The question is, how many does CCP wanna save. If you can't beat them, join them.
Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 549	Posted - 2017.04.03 20:43:50 - [770] - Quote Trasch Taranogas wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Trasch Taranogas wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Trasch Taranogas wrote: Another quote from the auto industry. Chairman: -Why wont you do anything to minimise the death toll on our roads? CEO: -Its not our fault, drivers make the mistakes. Chairman: -Why do they have to die if they make a mistake? CEO: -because you can't patch stupid, like people who drive drunk or too damn fast. Context is everything. After that hearing seatbelts and retractable steering columns became mandatory. And people still die because of speeding and drunk driving. What was your point exactly? Seatbelts and retractable steering columns are not mandatory for the sake of protecting people against their own stupidness, but to mitigate the risk of damage from other people's stupidness and legitimate unavoidable accidents. It doesn't stop people from being stupid, not even in the slightest. No, you cant save them all. The question is, how many does CCP wanna save. Presumably, as many as possible. "Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6306	Posted - 2017.04.03 20:59:55 - [771] - Quote Trasch Taranogas wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Trasch Taranogas wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Trasch Taranogas wrote: Another quote from the auto industry. Chairman: -Why wont you do anything to minimise the death toll on our roads? CEO: -Its not our fault, drivers make the mistakes. Chairman: -Why do they have to die if they make a mistake? CEO: -because you can't patch stupid, like people who drive drunk or too damn fast. Context is everything. After that hearing seatbelts and retractable steering columns became mandatory. And people still die because of speeding and drunk driving. What was your point exactly? Seatbelts and retractable steering columns are not mandatory for the sake of protecting people against their own stupidness, but to mitigate the risk of damage from other people's stupidness and legitimate unavoidable accidents. It doesn't stop people from being stupid, not even in the slightest. No, you cant save them all. The question is, how many does CCP wanna save. But CCP isn't saving lives. You are drawing a false equivalency here. Seat belts can save lives both of those who are reckless and those who are not. Changing the nature of EVE might save some possible future player, but at the very real potential loss of a current customer. Further, we are not talking about your daughter or somebody's mother, we are talking about space pixels...in a game. You are so far off base here you aren't even in the goddamned stadium anymore. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Verlyn Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 85	Posted - 2017.04.03 21:06:13 - [772] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: But CCP isn't saving lives. You are drawing a false equivalency here. Seat belts can save lives both of those who are reckless and those who are not. Changing the nature of EVE might save some possible future player, but at the very real potential loss of a current customer. Further, we are not talking about your daughter or somebody's mother, we are talking about space pixels...in a game. You are so far off base here you aren't even in the goddamned stadium anymore. Yea it's specifically when people start equating a game's pixel lives as real ones that I really start to lose it.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 10699	Posted - 2017.04.03 21:22:53 - [773] - Quote Verlyn wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But CCP isn't saving lives. You are drawing a false equivalency here. Seat belts can save lives both of those who are reckless and those who are not. Changing the nature of EVE might save some possible future player, but at the very real potential loss of a current customer. Further, we are not talking about your daughter or somebody's mother, we are talking about space pixels...in a game. You are so far off base here you aren't even in the goddamned stadium anymore. Yea it's specifically when people start equating a game's pixel lives as real ones that I really start to lose it. Yeah. So do the ISDs. This will be locked for having run its course really soon. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Trasch Taranogas State War Academy Caldari State 143	Posted - 2017.04.03 21:39:38 - [774] - Quote Ohboy, you guys are bad at metaphors. I play the game as it is. I dont care about CODE, wardecs et.c. Im just sailing along exploring in WH and null. Occasionally getting killed (mostly rats lately). The OP stated that Eve is losing customers to bullying so I try to figure out whats in the minds of CCP. If you can't beat them, join them.
Trasch Taranogas State War Academy Caldari State 143	Posted - 2017.04.03 21:45:42 - [775] - Quote A healthy estimate. Is CCP making more than 300,000 Euros a month? If you can't beat them, join them.
oiukhp Muvila School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 148	Posted - 2017.04.03 22:10:14 - [776] - Quote Its unfortunate to see a revision of history where ever that happens. I have no doubt that many here still playing today are supporting these versions of Eve history simply because it is inline with their desired form of gameplay. I've always thought that this game might fade away because of lack of refreshment in what many find exciting in this game. But what I suspect will happen is the unintended re-enforcement of narrow-minded game design based upon large scale selective memory of who is still around focused upon pigeon-holed ideals at the expense of everything else that made this a good game. There is no doubt many have left this game since their form of gameplay is no longer supported or far more difficult than is used to be and that it is worth. I have seen that in my own Corps over the years. The range of gameplay in Eve has narrowed while the depth of that now narrow vision has deepened, at the expense of a significant loss of player base which is somewhat hidden by the increase in players who are used to this more narrow vision of the game. What is almost worse is the obvious group-think that is occurring on these forums where the most active, and by definition, the most likely supportive of what is occurring in the evolution of this game are actively hounding and berating anyone who dares to disagree with them. This online community as a group has become close-minded to anything that challenges their conception of what is and what should be. It has become jaded. I don't see any way to correct this, other than by Dev to go against the grain to try and force out this oligarchical-group of vocal long term players and the like-minded at the risk of alienating them and failing to attract that new blood or the ones who have left in the past. As a casual player of this game over the last 12+ years these changes in the nature of this game and its community have become quite clear. But I can see why so many would not see it. As the saying goes, a frog will jump out of boiling water if you drop him straight into it but he will allow himself to be boiled to death if the temperature is raised slowly enough. I think that analogy applies to the evolution of this game as well and the narrow focus on just a few of many aspects which made this game so good to so many in the beginning now only really appeals to a much smaller subset of players. Those few divergent game design ideas in isolation didn't make this game so good, but as components of a larger group, they did. Unfortunately many of those still around from the old days probably don't care about all the lost players who feel their desired gameplay, due to their RL situation, has become too difficult to purse. But their subs will be missed. Eve has become too focused on a few game design ideals to appeal to the larger player base that it used to appeal to. And so many are totally blind to that.
Aaron Eternal Frontier 574	Posted - 2017.04.03 22:44:18 - [777] - Quote Learn your history...... The original design of Eve is by a man named Thorolfur Beck the base of the game design and the way pvp is structured is his design. Now, I recently read in an article that him and his brother were avid players of David Braben Elite in 1984, which is the game Eve online is based on. In Elite 1 a very common tactic to raise money was to sit outside a station and wait for freighters to undock and then you destroy them and scoop the loot and sell it to the market I think 1 ton of Computers were worth 300 credits and Robotics was worth 1500 credits per ton if my memory serves. So trust me when I say freighter ganking was destined to be part of this game, you can research it your self ganking in a space environment has been here since 1984. This is the story of how Eve Online was created...Enjoy... The CCP Creator Who Got Left Behind Eve online was destined to have non-consensual PvP...It's no use argiuing about it it is a fact and I have strong evidence to prove it that no one can argue with. Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Chopper Rollins Far Beyond Triggered 1826	Posted - 2017.04.03 22:44:22 - [778] - Quote oiukhp Muvila wrote: ... Eve has become too focused on a few game design ideals to appeal to the larger player base that it used to appeal to. And so many are totally blind to that. Now i couldn't take part in a conversation on game design for long without revealing the shallowness of my knowledge, but i'm pretty sure EvE has always been a niche game. I'm also sure that games that appeal to large player bases are generally lame in every particular. Threads where players blerf about game design and where CCP should go business-wise have always sounded to me like the pin-headed hooting of ravers who yell at the DJ: "Ay have ya got that choon that goes dunka-dishka dunka-dishka?" Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Infinity Ziona Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2740	Posted - 2017.04.03 23:56:32 - [779] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: Mr Mieyli wrote: baltec1 wrote: The people that pvp are not the ones the have and still do demand the removal of other people's gameplay and content. That's your opinion man, I say that at times the gameplay / content I want IS removed by gankers. Whenever someone says "I just want to be left in peace" is an example of their content being removed by someone else. It's all viewpoints. Have you ever played in a sandbox somewhere irl? You can have your own personal objective, but so does the others And if the others want to break your little sandcastle, you simply have to fight back instead of crying lol Same applies here... You want to be safe, you have to actively work towards that... Because no one else will do it for you The thing your ilk fails to understand is that when a sandbox becomes a litterbox nobody will play in it. The community was never so toxic. The sandbox was about sand, not about bonking smaller kids over the head with the pail and shovel and then pointing and laughing. Who wants to voluntarily log into that? (people who lack agency and feel they "need" to I guess - they probably conduct their sorry lives outside the game like that too). Right Mo0 did not have that effect at all. Those are some mighty fine rose tinted glasses. Mo0 left highsec alone. Zombie didn't and got banned. Enough said. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6306	Posted - 2017.04.04 00:36:18 - [780] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Right Mo0 did not have that effect at all. Those are some mighty fine rose tinted glasses. Mo0 left highsec alone. Zombie didn't and got banned. Enough said. HS was never intended to be safe, it was intended to be safer....if you put effort into it. And banning? People don't get banned for suicide ganking. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online



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