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Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
160
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Posted - 2017.04.04 06:00:56 -
[1] - Quote
I think it's boring that the pattern for pretty much every ship that is released is 1) create the same ship across all 4 races, 2) change the appearance of the ship for each race according to that race's style, 3) adjust slot layouts across races (amarr has most lows, caldari has most mids, etc), 4) make same exact role bonuses and similar 'other' bonuses for all ships, and 5) call it a day.
As far as design goes, it's too cookie cutter, it's too risk averse, and it's too lazy. Why does essentially the same ship have to exist across all four races for every ship? Every race has frigate types A-D, every race has cruiser types A-D, etc.
And then there's weapons. Don't get me wrong, I think lasers, rail guns, missiles, and bullets are fine. But can't we have anything else? What about area of affect weapons? Splash damage? Damage over time? Area denial weapons? What about simply 'cool' weaponry like flamethrowers, lightning guns, etc?
Just seems like there's so much more that could be done to make this game so much cooler. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
740
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Posted - 2017.04.04 06:22:47 -
[2] - Quote
Omg flamethrowers in space? Dots? What next? Fatality when you pod your opponet? Power ups? "Enter the arena!!!" 5-man DED sites?
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
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Oliver Delorean
Oh Bugga League 0f Grumpy 0ld Farts
64
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Posted - 2017.04.04 06:32:50 -
[3] - Quote
Had kinda similar idea but a bit different approach... Was thinking why should every ship to be tied to its bonuses, right now u see hurricane... u know it has projectile turret bonuses / phantasm - afterburner, and so on.
My idea was to keep the ship design but apply bonuses with fittings, so when u meet hurricane then u never know what type of weapons or bonuses the ship have.
This would make the combat a lot more interesting. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1412
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Posted - 2017.04.04 08:29:30 -
[4] - Quote
Area Effect Weapons = Smartbombs Area Denial Weapons = Bubbles Splash/DoT = Lance DD? Flamethrower = your ship exploding lightning guns = https://worldofwarcraft.com/
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
770
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Posted - 2017.04.04 08:33:55 -
[5] - Quote
Oliver Delorean wrote:Had kinda similar idea but a bit different approach... Was thinking why should every ship to be tied to its bonuses, right now u see hurricane... u know it has projectile turret bonuses / phantasm - afterburner, and so on.
My idea was to keep the ship design but apply bonuses with fittings, so when u meet hurricane then u never know what type of weapons or bonuses the ship have.
This would make the combat a lot more interesting.
T3Cs? |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics Federation Uprising
765
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Posted - 2017.04.04 09:31:05 -
[6] - Quote
inb4 'immersion' and 'realistc'
Just Add Water
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Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
331
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Posted - 2017.04.04 10:25:58 -
[7] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:inb4 'immersion' and 'realistc'
inb4 'gameplay' and 'balance' ?
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
583
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Posted - 2017.04.04 10:49:15 -
[8] - Quote
What would go far is to allow us to design our own body but I would want the slot lay out to be determined by devs but allow us to build the body style because dam it I want my gas harvester ship to look like an LNG tanker. |
Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics CODE.
1148
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Posted - 2017.04.04 10:55:27 -
[9] - Quote
what about a ship that shoots ships with swords attached the them?
There once was a ganker named tisi
A stunningly beautiful missy
To gank a gross miner
There is nothing finer, cept when they get all pissy
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Yebo Lakatosh
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
162
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Posted - 2017.04.04 11:14:30 -
[10] - Quote
I like flamethrowers. It should totally happen.
I can come up with at least four different technobabbles about how it works in space.
They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.
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Shae Tadaruwa
science and trade institute Caldari State
1625
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Posted - 2017.04.04 11:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote: Why does essentially the same ship have to exist across all four races for every ship? Every race has frigate types A-D, every race has cruiser types A-D, etc. Gallente industrial master race.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2411
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Posted - 2017.04.04 11:55:03 -
[12] - Quote
Guess it is "efficiency vs. coolness" here. Of cource more unique ship and race traits would add flower and variety. But if that used up all the developer time all other parts of the game would be stagnant. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1754
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Posted - 2017.04.04 12:23:54 -
[13] - Quote
Actually, more splash weapons and DoT type effects would be nice. Make it some sort of Computer Virus that infects the targets systems or Nanites that slowly eat away the target ships structure.
But it's not high on my wishlist to be honest. Formulaic weapon systems, boni and slot layouts are fine by me. |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1378
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Posted - 2017.04.04 12:46:31 -
[14] - Quote
Great idea!
@lunettelulu7
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1429
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Posted - 2017.04.04 13:31:42 -
[15] - Quote
Only thing I like about that are the lightening and the flamethrowers, like an above poster said already we have the AOE and Area Denial weaponry.
In regard to flamethrowers. AOE style heat generation weapons similar to bombs or the new titan/super effects that simply increase heat generation like overheating your guns/modules do now. This would either do specific damage over time to your modules themselves like OH does now or just increase your heat rates so your weapons and mods burn out faster if you are already OH. This would seriously cripple OH management in some fits that are close tipping the balance again.
Lightening. Long range targeted capacitor overchargers. This overcharge does heat damage and uses the heat sink system to dissipate the charge and can cause weapon/module burnout or OH time reduction.
Besides having balls of heat like the sun coming from your ship when you "bomb" your enemies or shooting lighting streaks like lasers at your enemy from range would look cool too visually.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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roberts dragon
Beak Enterprises TRUE VINE
84
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Posted - 2017.04.04 13:44:10 -
[16] - Quote
would say ccp could allow us to desisn and build our own shuttle , give us the tools paint etc of course for a modest charge , ccp will have to make something out of it .
with the flamethrower idea ,how about more skills to actually target another ships weapons ,modules . |
Mike Conway
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2017.04.04 14:01:46 -
[17] - Quote
The similarities between faction classes could probably be explained with that when one faction finds a successful design,the others want to make something in the same class in order to have something similar to offer in that part of the market,though with their own specialities. |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
160
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Posted - 2017.04.04 14:20:39 -
[18] - Quote
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:I like flamethrowers. It should totally happen.
I can come up with at least four different technobabbles about how it works in space.
I know right? (inb4 "not realistic - flames can't burn in space!")
Heck, there's stuff that burns underwater, like napalm or whatever. If someone wants to get technical and say "well that's not actual flames" then put "flamethrower" in quotes. It doesn't have to be a literal flamethrower. Just a weapon that spews something reminiscent of flames - some kind of chemical undergoing a heat generating chemical reaction.
Actually I think literal flames would be realistic - just needs its own oxygen supply which would be mixed-in with the flames spewing out (probably in gel form or whatever).
What about things like stasis fields (think the arbiter's special ability in Starcraft)?
I'd also like to see our conventional weapons systems (lasers, rails, missiles, bullets) reworked. All but one (missiles) hit instantly. I'd like to see that changed to only lasers hitting instantly. Rail guns should probably be next in line (hit with short delay). Next missiles, and finally bullets. There could be different trade-offs given in exchange though, for instance (just an idea) since bullets will travel the slowest, give them even higher alpha than they already have. |
Cade Windstalker
1222
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Posted - 2017.04.04 14:37:16 -
[19] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:I think it's boring that the pattern for pretty much every ship that is released is 1) create the same ship across all 4 races, 2) change the appearance of the ship for each race according to that race's style, 3) adjust slot layouts across races (amarr has most lows, caldari has most mids, etc), 4) make same exact role bonuses and similar 'other' bonuses for all ships, and 5) call it a day.
As far as design goes, it's too cookie cutter, it's too risk averse, and it's too lazy. Why does essentially the same ship have to exist across all four races for every ship? Every race has frigate types A-D, every race has cruiser types A-D, etc.
And then there's weapons. Don't get me wrong, I think lasers, rail guns, missiles, and bullets are fine. But can't we have anything else? What about area of affect weapons? Splash damage? Damage over time? Area denial weapons? What about simply 'cool' weaponry like flamethrowers, lightning guns, etc?
Just seems like there's so much more that could be done to make this game so much cooler.
So, let me get this straight, your complaint is that to design a ship CCP starts with a general role, changes absolutely everything else about the ship except that general role, and that this creates ships which are *too similar*... what?
If you think the ships in this game are too similar you haven't spent enough time with your head buried in a fitting tool or the Ship and Module forums. Sure, with some of the T2 hulls certain hulls end up being better than others, but that changes based on what else is released and as various ships and weapons are rebalanced. The whole point of T2 hulls is that they have a specialization, and literally everything other than that one point of commonality is going to be different.
As to "give us more weapons" cool does not equal balanced. There are a couple of reasons Eve is pretty low on AoE. One is because it's really really powerful with the scale that Eve fights tend to hit, and the other is server performance. The servers really don't like making AoE based calculations, so that's another incentive to be sparing.
Beast of Revelations wrote:What about things like stasis fields (think the arbiter's special ability in Starcraft)?
I'd also like to see our conventional weapons systems (lasers, rails, missiles, bullets) reworked. All but one (missiles) hit instantly. I'd like to see that changed to only lasers hitting instantly. Rail guns should probably be next in line (hit with short delay). Next missiles, and finally bullets. There could be different trade-offs given in exchange though, for instance (just an idea) since bullets will travel the slowest, give them even higher alpha than they already have.
Having your ship frozen in place and unable to do something isn't a ton of fun in an MMO. It works in an RTS because you have other units you can keep commanding.
Weapons in Eve hit instantly because there's no meaningful reason to give them travel time. It doesn't add any sort of meaningful gameplay and just creates more work for the servers. This is simply explained in lore by the projectiles moving fast enough that they land within one tick of the server, which is 1 second.
That's also the reason something like a "flamethrower" wouldn't do anything. Shields, armor, and hulls in Eve stand up to antimatter detonations and projectiles moving at .001c. Heck in lore Shields are a magnetically contained plasma field. Anything at a temperature that could be considered fire would literally do nothing to that.
"Oh so make it something hotter!"
That's called an AoE Doomsday and they can only be mounted to Titans. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1169
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Posted - 2017.04.04 15:08:28 -
[20] - Quote
Sounds like someone needs to try playing a different game entirely once and a while instead of complaining that ships and weapons in Eve are not dissimilar enough for your liking. There are literally hundreds of ships pilot-able by players and thousands of weapons and equipment in Eve, so if you cannot find something that isn't boring or "same old", you need to look a little harder. Or, like I said before, try playing something else. Try MWO or get SPAZ on Steam or something, because I get the distinct sense the reason you feel Eve is looking monotonous is you need a break from Eve.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1379
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Posted - 2017.04.04 15:10:28 -
[21] - Quote
Wonder if there's any ice products that could be fitted in lore-wise to be highly flammable?
@lunettelulu7
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1165
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Posted - 2017.04.04 15:28:54 -
[22] - Quote
Quote: What about simply 'cool' weaponry like flamethrowers, lightning guns, etc?
Flamethrower in space mind your speed or you will burn both you and your target this particular game have much more weapons cool or otherwise to its disposal compared to EVE and its not about balance but its about TiDi more you have sooner it kicks in with far less ships on grid due to additional calculations.
"You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
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Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
160
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Posted - 2017.04.04 15:32:03 -
[23] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Having your ship frozen in place and unable to do something isn't a ton of fun in an MMO.
1) Take your ADHD medicine before playing the game.
2) I have already had my ship frozen in place and unable to do anything every single time I've ever been killed (even whole minutes at a time). It's called being scrammed, webbed, and perma-jammed.
3) It doesn't necessarily have to be a long time, but again, take your ADHD medicine so that 30 seconds or so doesn't seem like 10 hours to you.
4) Don't zero in on and nitpick specific proposals put here by anyone. The point is to show (by way of suggestions and ideas) that there could be a lot more creativity applied to the game, not to say "such-and-such feature should 100% definitely be added to the game."
Quote:Weapons in Eve hit instantly because there's no meaningful reason to give them travel time.
What's the meaningful reason that missiles have travel time then?
Quote:That's also the reason something like a "flamethrower" wouldn't do anything. Shields, armor, and hulls in Eve stand up to antimatter detonations and projectiles moving at .001c. Heck in lore Shields are....
Several people, including me, have already said 'inb4 the lore people show up.'
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
124
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Posted - 2017.04.04 15:57:04 -
[24] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:I think it's boring that the pattern for pretty much every ship that is released is 1) create the same ship across all 4 races, 2) change the appearance of the ship for each race according to that race's style, 3) adjust slot layouts across races (amarr has most lows, caldari has most mids, etc), 4) make same exact role bonuses and similar 'other' bonuses for all ships, and 5) call it a day.
As far as design goes, it's too cookie cutter, it's too risk averse, and it's too lazy. Why does essentially the same ship have to exist across all four races for every ship? Every race has frigate types A-D, every race has cruiser types A-D, etc.
What would you rather see compared to the current ship layout? Why should every single interceptor be a raptor?
Also, the t1 platforms that are similar are also starting points for the faction / pirate versions of those ships.
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Teros Hakomairos
science and trade institute Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2017.04.04 16:04:36 -
[25] - Quote
This is the curse of free to play.....
Those ideas just come from people that are raised that way and don't know better.......
AOE damge?
DOT?
In EVE?
Get adult y'all
And don't try to change our game with your stupid FTP ideas...... |
MadMuppet
A Better Corp Name
1295
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Posted - 2017.04.04 16:05:29 -
[26] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:Wonder if there's any ice products that could be fitted in lore-wise to be highly flammable?
Something Florine based would do nicely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckSoDW2-wrc
This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.
"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
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Jenn aSide
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
15517
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Posted - 2017.04.04 16:06:14 -
[27] - Quote
Oliver Delorean wrote:Had kinda similar idea but a bit different approach... Was thinking why should every ship to be tied to its bonuses, right now u see hurricane... u know it has projectile turret bonuses / phantasm - afterburner, and so on.
My idea was to keep the ship design but apply bonuses with fittings, so when u meet hurricane then u never know what type of weapons or bonuses the ship have.
This would make the combat a lot more interesting.
As soon as you did that some nerd with Pyfa would create the ONE super over powered fit and no one would fly anything else, ever. |
Orakkus
Imperium Technologies DARKNESS.
340
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Posted - 2017.04.04 16:06:18 -
[28] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:I think it's boring that the pattern for pretty much every ship that is released is 1) create the same ship across all 4 races, 2) change the appearance of the ship for each race according to that race's style, 3) adjust slot layouts across races (amarr has most lows, caldari has most mids, etc), 4) make same exact role bonuses and similar 'other' bonuses for all ships, and 5) call it a day.
As far as design goes, it's too cookie cutter, it's too risk averse, and it's too lazy. Why does essentially the same ship have to exist across all four races for every ship? Every race has frigate types A-D, every race has cruiser types A-D, etc.
And then there's weapons. Don't get me wrong, I think lasers, rail guns, missiles, and bullets are fine. But can't we have anything else? What about area of affect weapons? Splash damage? Damage over time? Area denial weapons? What about simply 'cool' weaponry like flamethrowers, lightning guns, etc?
Just seems like there's so much more that could be done to make this game so much cooler.
Yeah.. about that.. strangely enough Eve actually USED to be this way. And it was a balancing nightmare. The Minmatar had one more frigate than the other nations (the burst), the Amarr did not have a "probing" frigate (the Magnate), Typhoons and Scythes had the split weapon systems. Balance was impossible to do as one change to a common module would either have no effect or wildly unintended consequences depending on the ship. This lead to Tiercide, which made everything SO much easier on the devs, which also meant they could spend more time working on other aspects of the game.
You should also know that, besides how many mid or low slots a ship gets, the ship usually has to conform to the principle of the race, for example Minmatar ships have to be able to field ships that are faster than other races, Amarr ships typically start off with more capacitor, Gallente ships will have larger drone bays, Caldari ships will have better sensor strengths, etc. There are a lot of "under the hood" factors that you probably didn't realize play a part when they are developing a new ship or changing a current one.
But as I read the rest of your post, I have to agree that you just need to spend more time in the game as many of your ideas for weapons already exist in multiple forms. I will have to say that you need to PVP more.. then you will understand a little better why some of your weapon ideas aren't going to be impressive, or will be amazingly overpowered (which means "bad").
He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Teros Hakomairos
science and trade institute Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2017.04.04 16:11:46 -
[29] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:Beast of Revelations wrote:I think it's boring that the pattern for pretty much every ship that is released is 1) create the same ship across all 4 races, 2) change the appearance of the ship for each race according to that race's style, 3) adjust slot layouts across races (amarr has most lows, caldari has most mids, etc), 4) make same exact role bonuses and similar 'other' bonuses for all ships, and 5) call it a day.
As far as design goes, it's too cookie cutter, it's too risk averse, and it's too lazy. Why does essentially the same ship have to exist across all four races for every ship? Every race has frigate types A-D, every race has cruiser types A-D, etc.
And then there's weapons. Don't get me wrong, I think lasers, rail guns, missiles, and bullets are fine. But can't we have anything else? What about area of affect weapons? Splash damage? Damage over time? Area denial weapons? What about simply 'cool' weaponry like flamethrowers, lightning guns, etc?
Just seems like there's so much more that could be done to make this game so much cooler. Yeah.. about that.. strangely enough Eve actually USED to be this way. And it was a balancing nightmare. The Minmatar had one more frigate than the other nations (the burst), the Amarr did not have a "probing" frigate (the Magnate), Typhoons and Scythes had the split weapon systems. Balance was impossible to do as one change to a common module would either have no effect or wildly unintended consequences depending on the ship. This lead to Tiercide, which made everything SO much easier on the devs, which also meant they could spend more time working on other aspects of the game. You should also know that, besides how many mid or low slots a ship gets, the ship usually has to conform to the principle of the race, for example Minmatar ships have to be able to field ships that are faster than other races, Amarr ships typically start off with more capacitor, Gallente ships will have larger drone bays, Caldari ships will have better sensor strengths, etc. There are a lot of "under the hood" factors that you probably didn't realize play a part when they are developing a new ship or changing a current one. But as I read the rest of your post, I have to agree that you just need to spend more time in the game as many of your ideas for weapons already exist in multiple forms. I will have to say that you need to PVP more.. then you will understand a little better why some of your weapon ideas aren't going to be impressive, or will be amazingly overpowered (which means "bad").
Talking about "balancing" a game...this is just a demand of people who don't like to change a ship and are indignant if another ship does something better than THEIRS....at this moment the whine threats in the forum and ingame starts.....
Best example : the myr....a ship DESIGNED for drone using can use drones (even heavy) better than others ?
A SCANDAL...this has to be nerfed....and it was nerfed.......and this was the REAL scandal......
bottom line.... |
Charley Varrick
State War Academy Caldari State
36
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Posted - 2017.04.04 16:59:56 -
[30] - Quote
I'm still waiting for giant space slugs that live inside big asteroids. Big enough to swallow our ships whole! Would make cool hiding places..... |
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