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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1571
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Posted - 2017.04.17 22:39:52 -
[31] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:Maybe it is just a coincidence, but DecShield stopped being a thing in 2013 right? Maybe that has a part in it as well. But I'd be very interested to hear you're history of what happened and how it happened DMC. I wasn't around playing the game back then. Was ganking not a thing back in 2013? Was High Sec too safe and others like CODE. decided to act?
Maybe there is a Wiki somewhere with a detailed rich history in how this all really got started. If it truly is the reason for less logging in, then it would be good to see some proof. Ganking was a thing in 2009 and earlier. It just wasn't such a continously organised thing. But parts of HS were also roamed regularly by Shadow Cartel (Immortalis) and other organizations.
Evelopedia
Hulkageddon I
Hulkageddon II
If you read through the stuff, joy and tears were pretty much the same as today.
Later, in 2010/2011 I knew some pilots who took part in both Hulkageddon I and II. Besides living in WHs they were also dedicated industrialists (including all types of mining) who knew the game in and out. Nice and cool guys to fly with. Never seen any of them again, since they went offline in 2012 / 2013 though.
It's more of an impression, no real numbers. But I think, there's less diversity in many players gameplay nowadays; sides are more pronounced and positions entrenched as a consequence.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Chewytowel Haklar
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
279
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Posted - 2017.04.17 23:41:05 -
[32] - Quote
Interesting thanks for the info and response. If it's lack of diversity then I wonder how CCP could improve upon that, or us as players if at all possible. |
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
101
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Posted - 2017.04.18 14:24:16 -
[33] - Quote
Wardecs should be the only pvp option in high sec. Fix it, re-vamp it, do whatever you have to do to make it a good combat system for high sec. Wardecs need to stay, ganking needs to go.
The high sec griefing needs to stop because it is chasing away players. There is plenty of pvp to be found outside high sec for those who want to play the "pirate" character. I know several players that have left because of this style of play. Alphas are leaving because of these "elite pvpers", who's only purpose is ruining someone's day and padding their KB.
Can someone explain to me, what's the fun in blowing up a week old character's retriever or Itty V? Is it really fun? Is that the best pvp you can find? Really? Get a life.
I have tried to help new players fit their ships better and help with tips to survive, but we all know skills are a huge part of ehp, align, etc..., which along with experience are necessary skills to survive properly. However, before they get a chance to learn and explore the different paths of Eve and gain that crucial experience, they are picked on and griefed to the point a good number are leaving.
CCP should discuss with big merc corps to find the best option to improve the war dec system to replace all other forms of pvp in high sec, so high sec can once again flourish. |
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
345
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Posted - 2017.04.18 14:32:12 -
[34] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: I never implied or said it was due to WarDecs. However during the years that I've been playing this game I can definitely cite a few examples of players who quit due to too many trigger happy jerks in high sec shooting unarmed ships just to pad their KM stats.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter. If you think there's no problem then you're part of the problem.
DMC
I would agree with you, if it is was not so F'''''''''' easy to avoid loosing ships. When I started EVE, i did half a day of research (Different Videos, Eveuni etc.) and learned everything about D-scan, MWD+cloak and using a scout. There is really no excuse for loosing a ship if you don't want to. So if people looses ships, it is their own fault.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Jenn aSide
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
15602
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Posted - 2017.04.18 15:24:10 -
[35] - Quote
How the flying **** can someone be 'trigger happy" in a game where 98% of the ships mount copious amounts of guns and missiles?
I mean it's crazy, people screaming "why are you shooting at me" in a video game. The answer is of course "why not, this isn't real".
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Jenn aSide
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
15602
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Posted - 2017.04.18 15:24:56 -
[36] - Quote
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
The high sec griefing needs to stop because it is chasing away players.
And this part is just an outright lie. |
Jenn aSide
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
15602
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Posted - 2017.04.18 15:34:22 -
[37] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I started playing this game way before the two of you started playing. I remember exactly how it was when I first joined compared to how it is now. Over the years I've seen how this game has progressed. In 2009 the log in numbers increased substantially each year through 2013 with an average amount of 40k on weekdays and average amount of 60k on weekends, then the numbers started dropping and have continued to drop at a rapid pace to half that amount. I don't need to explain anything, the numbers speak for themselves.
DMC
December 12, 2012
That's what happened, they listened to people screeching about safety and'new players'. People like you who don't understand that danger is the key to excitement and EVE became a less exciting game because CCP made it harder for this to happen., and it's literally been downhill from there.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3304
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Posted - 2017.04.18 17:02:35 -
[38] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I started playing this game way before the two of you started playing. I remember exactly how it was when I first joined compared to how it is now. Over the years I've seen how this game has progressed. In 2009 the log in numbers increased substantially each year through 2013 with an average amount of 40k on weekdays and average amount of 60k on weekends, then the numbers started dropping and have continued to drop at a rapid pace to half that amount. I don't need to explain anything, the numbers speak for themselves.
DMC
December 12, 2012That's what happened, they listened to people screeching about safety and'new players'. People like you who don't understand that danger is the key to excitement and EVE became a less exciting game because CCP made it harder for this to happen., and it's literally been downhill from there.
It's easy for both side to point at stuff as the cause for the downfall but nobody actually has the actual good info which would be the player who quit telling why they quit. Unless someone actually has that info, everybody can call BS on anyone else's claim. Anybody looking for a silver bullet reason why people started leaving is more than likely wrong. With the total number of changes begin done to the game over time, there is a **** load of individual reasons why someone can quit but they all end up in the same bucket of people who quit no matter what their own reason was. It's a rather small niche they are occupying so for all we know, 40k might have been over what can actually be sustained for a game like that.
You read the forum so you know just as much as me there is also part of the population who wold be gone no matter what if it wasn't of the investment already done in it. If you were to remove those eternally unhappy people because they obvioulsy don't belong here in a game they dislike, the numbers might be even worse except wee don't want that to happen because EVE won't continue once we drop below a certain point. No matter how much the devs says they love this game and are passionate about it, I'm pretty sure a large group of them would leave if they had to do it on their own $$$ because the game can't sustain itself.
In the mean time, the bleed is real and the upcoming changes will need to be positive of both the actual player base and upcoming newbies for the subs to stabilize. You can't live forever on your "core" client base because their life change from new jobs and responsibilities to taste changes in entertainment all the way to the deep end with sad stuff like death. The question is, is the market drained for this type of game and changes are needed to get replacement or is it not tapped and just a question of time before people find out about this game. Where are the player who want this kind of game but somehow haven't found it? And if they haven't found it yet, will they ever find their way in "EVE Online: The sandbox with no player direction"? These people will have to be reached somehow for the trend to downward trend to stop. If it's not with game changes because EVE has to stay EVE, then it will have to be in a different way. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1576
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Posted - 2017.04.18 17:25:20 -
[39] - Quote
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:However, before they get a chance to learn and explore the different paths of Eve and gain that crucial experience, they are picked on and griefed to the point a good number are leaving.
This is what you need to do to get started in EVE in HS:
- Acquire decent reading skills
- Read and understand the new pilot faq
- Read and understand the 8 golden rules
- Acquire some common sense
- HTFU
- Undock
- Have fun
And while it may not always be easy, it's not rocket science either.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Keno Skir
1532
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Posted - 2017.04.18 17:28:11 -
[40] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote: if you think safe spaces are a thing in EVE, then you're playing the wrong game DMC Everyone knows that in EVE, there are only player rules (and the EULA)
Keno Skir wrote:You implied it was due to wardecs by agreeing with the previous post that said it was specifically due to wardecs, sorry for my confusion ;) Butt-hurt carebears trying to "safe space" the game are actually the problem. Wardecs are easy to avoid, and you don't have to lose out on community to do it because you can create infinite community chat rooms which accomplish the same thing as most corps. Ganking is also easily avoided as evidenced by the VAST MAJORITY of haulers who play just fine by using a small amount of common sense. Ganking is fine because it's avoidable with good strategy. Wardecs are fine because they are avoidable with good strategy. I genuinely don't understand what the problem is that you think i'm "part of" so could you include some actual content next time you post? Please include reasons why you think easily avoidable situations are breaking the game Swear to GOD you two losers seriously need to train up reading comprehension to level 5 and stop putting words into my mouth. I really don't give a rats arse about the BS you guys keep trying to sell everyone every time this topic comes up. I started playing this game way before the two of you started playing. I remember exactly how it was when I first joined compared to how it is now. Over the years I've seen how this game has progressed. In 2009 the log in numbers increased substantially each year through 2013 with an average amount of 40k on weekdays and average amount of 60k on weekends, then the numbers started dropping and have continued to drop at a rapid pace to half that amount. I don't need to explain anything, the numbers speak for themselves. DMC
I asked you to specifically address my points regarding how easy it actually is to avoid wardecs and ganking, not have a massive cry and throw your toys out of the pram.
My request still stands :
Please submit reasons why you think easily avoidable situations are breaking the game. Please don't claim once again that you don't need to explain because it's pretty clear that you do. I also don't think you actually know how long I've been playing, but since it makes no difference I'll let it slide. The dates you listed with regard to player decline actually match pretty perfectly with CCP starting to make EvE safer, causing the decline potentially.
Most of all please stay calm, it's just a game
Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-
250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
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Teros Hakomairos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
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Posted - 2017.04.18 18:40:37 -
[41] - Quote
Some people simply don't get it that THEIR (PVP) way is NOT the only one...
Ganks are easily avoided?
Well..
I say THERE SHOULD BE NO GANKS IN HIGH OUTSIDE OF WARDECS
Why?
Because they do not belong there....
PVP should be limited to said wars,low and 0.0.....
Again why....?
Because high is the only place where people with OTHER sights on the game beside of PVP can roam....low is PVP,0.0 is pvp....
This leads to the logical conlusion that "high citizens" have to be protected or the players they represent will vote with their feets like they did the last months(maybe 2 years) and leave the game.
Yes EVE is a PVP game,but there will be STILL PVP if it's banned from high......
And anyone that plays the player fluctuation down with which argument ever is blindfolded in my eyes.....
As i said before...growning alpha numbers are NOT good for EVE.
They blindfold you.... |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6409
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Posted - 2017.04.18 18:48:26 -
[42] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Why did you give them your pod too?
Why were you using a freighter during war?
Why was the freighter in corp instead of neutral?
Why no docking bookmark?
Why not leave in the FULL MINUTE AND A HALF gap between that cynabal undocking and actually starting to approach you?
Good vid.. i guess...
Hey...at least he has a good attitude about it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6409
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Posted - 2017.04.18 18:51:07 -
[43] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:I agree and the player log in numbers confirm it.
DMC You could say that to literally any post that says something bad about EvE.
Pretty sure he does.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3305
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Posted - 2017.04.18 19:18:41 -
[44] - Quote
Doing that is literally asking for some stupid media to drag CCP in the mud over some accusation of bullying customer. |
Aedaxus
Digital Zone Corp
26
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Posted - 2017.04.18 21:29:02 -
[45] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Doing that is literally asking for some stupid media to drag CCP in the mud over some accusation of bullying customer. I'll link you to a post from a former merc who saw all his fellow mercs/bounty hunters turn into gangsters : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=479121
There is a big issue with how two things work :
- bounty system. The bounty system lets anyone who can type my name place a bounty on me for no good reason hiding my awesome suit with a red rectange with white letters "WANTED" on it. No real problem as I jumpclone and go to lowsec and treathen that I will hug people and spread love in lowsec. That way they clear a part or the whole of my bounty and I can go back onto my business looking good in stuff I bought with the now soon te be replaced "'Aurum". Only having lost an hour or so for no good reason.
- War Declaration : Those referred are using the system to get gratuitious amounts of free ISK for PVP in highsec with no danger whatsoever and when in danger they can klick the 'cancel' button dock up 24 hours while hiring a real PVP clan to fight anyone fighting back. It's a situation where mediocre PVPers get gratuitious amounts of money by harassing random player groups preferably miners and haulers for a fistfull of ISK or a few ISK more. Then decide if they are the good, the bad or the ugly.
I don't know a good solution to make sure the mediocre PVPers can still enjoy PVP as for some reason they tend to favor PVE corps over PVP corps. I don't have the statistics about it, this is just an asumption from the people I generally speak with. Somehow there should be a DPS counter per clan where a way to strong opponent can't just mass target a bunch of lowly skilled miners/haulers/missioners or generally speaking PVE-ers.
PS: I forgot about teh actual ganking without a wardec but we will get this into other threads as the whole becomes too much for me to handle in one post.
This is not CCP harassing a customer as far as I know or have heard of. Feel free to elaborate on your point or offer suggestions on how we can make the game better for everyone. I liek PVP but I sure as hell not going to in these circumstances where a lot of people I know either log in on occasion just to sob about the loss of yet another ship or ask if they can leave the clan to persue a life of PVP weak opponents as it's way easier than to actually PVE. |
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