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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3304
|
Posted - 2017.04.18 14:50:34 -
[1] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:And no, "just bring more ships" is not a solution to WCS. In many of these cases we're talking about weak targets like T1 frigates, where it can be a fun 1v1 fight but bringing 2-3 (or more!) people to ensure tackle makes it a boring execution instead of a fight. And that's on top of the difficulty of coordinating multiple ships to get tackle before the target warps, having more people in local to scare them off, etc. If you can't get these fights solo then there's no point in wasting time on them.
Nor is "fit multiple points" a solution. Very few ships have enough mid slots to fit sufficient points to deal with 3+ WCS, especially if you don't want to cripple the ship in every other way. You pretty much have to use expensive faction scrams to have a realistic fit, and a 50-100 million ISK module should not be required for T1 frigate vs. T1 frigate fights.
If you are not willing to fit or form up to catch your target, I wish your target also spam fofofofofo in local after escaping because you deserve it. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3310
|
Posted - 2017.04.19 16:50:43 -
[2] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Merin Ryskin wrote:Donnachadh wrote:You have failed in every way that it is possible for you to fail in a situation where you should have had the upper hand. Lolwut. Do you know anything about FW PvP? The target has every advantage in this situation, not the hunter. If they're spamming d-scan with a short radius they'll have plenty of advance warning of any ship warping to their site and can align out. Then if the potential threat enters the site they immediately warp out before the hunter can finish exiting warp. And even if they miss the hunter on d-scan if they're smart they're going to move away from the warp-in point so that they still have time to align out and warp even if they don't start trying until after the hunter appears on their overview. Now, I have no problem with that part of the situation. A target escaping because of superior situational awareness is fine. My problem is that WCS eliminates the need to pay attention to any of those things. You don't need to spam d-scan or even pay attention to the overview. You can just sit on the warp-in beacon at 0km and press "warp" as soon as you hear the scram notification, and because you have lows full of WCS you're guaranteed to escape. Maybe make it so FW players cannot fit stabs on their non-hauler ships and restrict haulers so they cannot be used in these sites.
Or just don't change anything since there are counter to stabs anyway. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3319
|
Posted - 2017.04.20 14:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Not a fan of having a site that webs, but having one that points could be a reasonable solution here.
The real point here is that the issues people have with FWar are complex and resist simple solutions.
Navy Maulus solve all stabs issue. A base scram will disrupt for 4 points requiring 4 stabs fitted to escape. If you really want to go full try-hard on the farmers, go with a faction scram for 5 points of disruption. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3319
|
Posted - 2017.04.20 18:34:01 -
[4] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:I believe the ship you're looking for is the Navy Maulus.
Been suggested. People ignored it... |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3319
|
Posted - 2017.04.20 18:46:57 -
[5] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Shallanna Yassavi wrote:I believe the ship you're looking for is the Navy Maulus. Been suggested. People ignored it... Because a single ship being able to solve the problem does not mean that no balance problem exists. Focusing on this one particular ship is an implicit concession that there is a major balance problem making everything else useless.
It's not even a problem it's just a bunch of people being ass-blasted they can't kill a half-afk farmer who pretty much nullified his ship combat capabilities so he can escape some engagements. The tools to counter his fits are there but you willingly refuse to use them. You deserve to have him escape from you and collect your salt all the way to his next PLEX where he will still escape you. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3319
|
Posted - 2017.04.20 18:49:52 -
[6] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote: The bubble part would fix this one particular problem, but leave the rest untouched.
This here prove that you do not even understand what is going on. A bubble on the beacon will change nothing except which ship will be used to do the farming. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3321
|
Posted - 2017.04.20 19:27:08 -
[7] - Quote
Scialt wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Merin Ryskin wrote: The bubble part would fix this one particular problem, but leave the rest untouched.
This here prove that you do not even understand what is going on. A bubble on the beacon will change nothing except which ship will be used to do the farming. Maybe... but it makes it more expensive. You have to train your farming toon to be able to fly interceptors. Racial frig V, Evasive Maneuvering V, Interceptor I. The ship it self costs more as well... so the "asleep at the wheel" moments when you can kill a farmer would cost them more. An alternative would be to have the plex scram everyone in range with 10 points. Or just have WCS not work inside a plex. The issue isn't the module... it's not even that it makes it so farmers can escape. It's simply that it makes it too easy for them to escape. You don't have to make it impossible to fix the problem... just more difficult. All of those options do just that.
The issue is that people think that being in a plex mean you should fight while the plexes were designed from the very beginning as not requiring to fight to complete. The people who are mad about this just aren't happy about the design of FW. It was never about a bunch of fight but always about territory presence. If you keep chasing the farmer away, they will never be able to take your systems so you are effectively winning the war. If people can't use stabbed ship to farm, they will use unfitted ships to reduce their occasional losses or just go elsewhere and the PvP seeker will realize they have 1 less problem since stabbed farmer no longer run away from them but they also have even less people in system to run after.
It's like people running PvE who run when you try to catch them. They don't run because it's easy, they run because it's more efficient to do so than fight. As long as fighting is less valuable than running, people will run. You can't stop that. You can make it more aggravating but past a threshold, your target stop running and just leave at which point even the tools you had to catch him stop working. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3322
|
Posted - 2017.04.20 20:47:34 -
[8] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:
And, again, I have no problem with people running because they had sufficient situational awareness to recognize a threat and move to escape. What I have a problem with is lazy and/or incompetent players who completely ignore everything around them, confident that they have WCS fitted and can just warp out when someone tries to attack them. That kind of stupidity should get you caught and killed, but WCS let you turn off your PvP flag and get away with it.
You are too lazy and/or incompetent to fit 2 scrams or use a navy maulus and you want incompetence and laziness to be nerfed? Will you also ask CCP to nerf ECM when people turn to that to break your lock and escape you because you obviously can't fit ECCM on a standard PvP ship in the same way you can't fit 2 scrams or use a different ship.
Merin Ryskin wrote: There is no trying, there is simply escape. You fit your WCS, and anything but a specialized anti-WCS ship is going to fail to catch you. And that's the problem. That isn't successful defensive PvP, it's turning off your PvP flag and being a pure PvE player.
About this, you consider <2 seconds align ceptor to be turning PvP flag off right? Or anything below 2 seconds since you probably spend most of your time in low sec. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3323
|
Posted - 2017.04.21 03:23:12 -
[9] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I hate to say this, because I feel I'm insulting the pvp guys, but here it is - instead of focusing on hating stabs, get in your pvp ship and just go system to system ratting in belts. You'll get some isk, other pvp guys in the area will find you and you'll get pvp fights.
But but... I managed to land a single point on the enemy, I deserve the kill!!!! |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3323
|
Posted - 2017.04.21 03:26:01 -
[10] - Quote
Fek Mercer wrote:I think a lot of people here are simply saying to bring ships built around catching stabbed plexers, but what happens when you run into a plexer willing to fight? I don't think faction warfare players should be forced into a dice roll like that, it's just screams bad design, flipping a coin and hoping your opponent is fit to run away. Not to mention, even if everyone you ran into was stabbed, the lack of good fights would probably turn stale to many people. What's more, in my experience, it's not just stabs, people align out the second they see you within < 1au on dscan, and hit the jump button as you arrive into the site from taking the gate.
If you want people to stop bringing stabs, I'd suggest CCP using the 'natural phenomena are disruptng your ship' kind of message spiel when attempting to warp to a plex/use an acceleration gate
Oh noes, in EVE online, I might not always be 100% fit to take 100% of the fights. How could the devs ever let that happen.
God sometime I really feel I could bury myself in salt bu just rolling an alt to "afk-farm" FW plexes in a griffin and jamming people. |
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