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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1914
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Posted - 2017.04.21 18:17:25 -
[151] - Quote
Came to watch some pubbie getting rekt. Was not disappointed.
You are indeed terrible.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Chewytowel Haklar
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
283
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Posted - 2017.04.21 18:44:54 -
[152] - Quote
What is with this condescending behavior calling people illiterate? What's with people in this game using their intellect as a weapon, jabbing it like a knife in someone's back to berate them? Are we below you? Seriously some of you act incredibly childish for such an intelligent person I don't get it. If the point is to have an open conversation, then why are many doing their best to pretty much tell others to be quiet.
It's sad to see adults arguing back and forth like children. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2846
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Posted - 2017.04.21 18:56:27 -
[153] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:What is with this condescending behavior calling people illiterate? What's with people in this game using their intellect as a weapon, jabbing it like a knife in someone's back to berate them? Are we below you? Seriously some of you act incredibly childish for such an intelligent person I don't get it. If the point is to have an open conversation, then why are many doing their best to pretty much tell others to be quiet.
It's sad to see adults arguing back and forth like children.
Eve's primary redeeming feature is hatred as a gameplay mechanic.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Chewytowel Haklar
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
283
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:07:30 -
[154] - Quote
Querns wrote:Chewytowel Haklar wrote:What is with this condescending behavior calling people illiterate? What's with people in this game using their intellect as a weapon, jabbing it like a knife in someone's back to berate them? Are we below you? Seriously some of you act incredibly childish for such an intelligent person I don't get it. If the point is to have an open conversation, then why are many doing their best to pretty much tell others to be quiet.
It's sad to see adults arguing back and forth like children. Eve's primary redeeming feature is hatred as a gameplay mechanic.
Maybe it's just me, but that seems to speak volumes about the discussion here. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2846
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:17:28 -
[155] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:Querns wrote:Chewytowel Haklar wrote:What is with this condescending behavior calling people illiterate? What's with people in this game using their intellect as a weapon, jabbing it like a knife in someone's back to berate them? Are we below you? Seriously some of you act incredibly childish for such an intelligent person I don't get it. If the point is to have an open conversation, then why are many doing their best to pretty much tell others to be quiet.
It's sad to see adults arguing back and forth like children. Eve's primary redeeming feature is hatred as a gameplay mechanic. Maybe it's just me, but that seems to speak volumes about the discussion here.
If you're only now coming around to the primary defining feature of our organization, then you must be quite new to the game.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Chewytowel Haklar
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
283
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:23:33 -
[156] - Quote
So you hate everyone else in the game, or the way they play it, and want to ruin their game (obviously DJ's slogan), and yet are still hilariously debated with and even elected into CSM. I have to hand it to you guys you're devious nature has superceded others common sense or rational behavior. To argue with any of you is rather pointless then. You are what you are and that will never change, good to know. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2846
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:25:27 -
[157] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:So you hate everyone else in the game, or the way they play it, and want to ruin their game (obviously DJ's slogan), and yet are still hilariously debated with and even elected into CSM. I have to hand it to you guys you're devious nature has superceded others common sense or rational behavior. To argue with any of you is rather pointless then. You are what you are and that will never change, good to know.
Arguing was never necessary. We were objectively correct from the beginning.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
849
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:28:59 -
[158] - Quote
why goons are busy writing stupid things on the forum instead of ratting in delve? :thinking: |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2847
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:31:25 -
[159] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:why goons are busy writing stupid things on the forum instead of ratting in delve? :thinking:
Ratting is for plebians. The patrician krab activity ("krabtivity"?) is rorqual mining. This allows plenty of free time to fulfill the goon prime directive to Never Not Post.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
849
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:35:08 -
[160] - Quote
oh i see!
until PL Dread bomb 200 rorquals at a time, AMIRITE? |
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3330
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:42:15 -
[161] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:to...well any of the other CSM candidates that spent a lot of time showing you how passionate they were about their respective niche of the game. Aryth probably got the highest number of votes. What does it say about the voting system when the top player representative calls most of the voters 'pubbies' and terrible ones at that? Clearly Aryth can afford to be completely realistic and cynical and the same time. I mean that's some bravado, but at the same time that should hint at how broken the system really is. I think people are fundamentally missing the point. I'm not trying to contest the democratic process, or that bigger numbers shouldn't beat smaller numbers. If the CSM is supposed to be a tool to represent players of this game, it has completely failed for one, and the only way to get actual player representation is to be more proactive about how the system works. 'CSM Information Page' wrote: The role of a CSM member is to represent the player community in the development of EVE Online.
Clearly the rest of us 'Terrible Pubbies' aren't part of the wider player community.
Nobody can represent the idiots who can't even be bothered to vote. We got a guy in on a "I don't need your pubbie vote" because the player base does not care enough about being represented to even vote. If there were ton of candidates where the vote had been spread then maybe the system would be a failure because the votes gets diluted but that's not even the case. The playstyle who aren't represented either are extremely small or can't be arsed to vote. CCP can't force people to vote and even if they did, those "CBA to vote" would probably cast random votes to the top X names so they can hit next and get on with their gaming time. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2849
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:44:13 -
[162] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:oh i see! until PL Dread bomb 200 rorquals at a time, AMIRITE?
We own way more territory than we can use, so, no, we're all too spread out for a dread bomb to nail 200 rorquals.
At our current rate of growth, however, check back in 2018.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Vic Jefferson
Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore
1231
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:50:51 -
[163] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: Nobody can represent the idiots who can't even be bothered to vote.
Correct. This is not about people who do not vote. This is about people who vote and have a a playstyle that does not lend itself to the numbers game - see the long tail of first choices. Their groups and play styles do not have the organizational largess to effectively force the election of a candidate, yet the players themselves are, at least in my appraisal, part of the larger eve community, and if the CSM is to report the stated goal of representing the eve community, they should not be so systematically shut out of the process. They are.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2849
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Posted - 2017.04.21 19:58:54 -
[164] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: Nobody can represent the idiots who can't even be bothered to vote.
Correct. This is not about people who do not vote. This is about people who vote and have a a playstyle that does not lend itself to the numbers game - see the long tail of first choices. Their groups and play styles do not have the organizational largess to effectively force the election of a candidate, yet the players themselves are, at least in my appraisal, part of the larger eve community, and if the CSM is to report the stated goal of representing the eve community, they should not be so systematically shut out of the process. They are.
STV makes this entire post meaningless.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3330
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Posted - 2017.04.21 20:05:30 -
[165] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: Nobody can represent the idiots who can't even be bothered to vote.
Correct. This is not about people who do not vote. This is about people who vote and have a a playstyle that does not lend itself to the numbers game - see the long tail of first choices. Their groups and play styles do not have the organizational largess to effectively force the election of a candidate, yet the players themselves are, at least in my appraisal, part of the larger eve community, and if the CSM is to report the stated goal of representing the eve community, they should not be so systematically shut out of the process. They are.
Each voter gets one vote, which can transfer from their first-preference to their second-preference, so if your preferred candidate has no chance of being elected or has enough votes already, your vote is transferred to your second choice candidate in accordance with your instructions. STV thus ensures that very few votes are wasted, unlike First Past the Post, where only a small number of votes actually contribute to the result.
Did they all vote for only one candidate? Maybe instead of can't be arsed to vote it's a case of can't be arsed to vote correctly?
Or maybe the numbers actually aren't here... |
Vic Jefferson
Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore
1233
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Posted - 2017.04.21 20:10:39 -
[166] - Quote
Querns wrote:STV makes this entire post meaningless.
Yeah, STV isn't breakable by sheer numerical force. That's why the CSM isn't always 70%+ big null blocs.
Oh wait....
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2849
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Posted - 2017.04.21 20:15:59 -
[167] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Querns wrote:STV makes this entire post meaningless. Yeah, STV isn't breakable by sheer numerical force. That's why the CSM isn't always 70%+ big null blocs. Oh wait....
Again, as we've stated, over and over, your assumption that nullsec is the minority is wrong. Nullsec is the majority.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Vic Jefferson
Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore
1233
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Posted - 2017.04.21 20:17:43 -
[168] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:STV thus ensures that very few votes are wasted...
Correct, it almost never wastes the overflow from the goon #1 ballot, instead giving it to the #2 goon ballot.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Josef Djugashvilis
3545
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Posted - 2017.04.21 20:18:51 -
[169] - Quote
For the first time in 10 years I did not vote.
I do think that it is better to have the CSM than not - just about.
But I simply could not be bothered to read up on and vote for people I have never heard of, who will be pretty much totally bound by NDAs not to disclose anything worth hearing until the information is out of date.
In any case, I believe that whoever was / is? elected this year, will put aside partisanship and work for the greater good of the whole game.
This is not a signature.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3330
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Posted - 2017.04.21 20:28:28 -
[170] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:STV thus ensures that very few votes are wasted... Correct, it almost never wastes the overflow from the goon #1 ballot, instead giving it to the #2 goon ballot.
The fact that votes are not wasted mean the minority has to either be terribly small or didn't actually fill the ballot or else, their votes would end up packaged together on a single candidate propping him up. Since they don't seem to manage to prop any HS candidate, or WH or whatever, then it would mean they are really small minority not large enough to represent anything close to 10% or they can't fill their ballot right. |
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Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
353
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Posted - 2017.04.21 20:30:26 -
[171] - Quote
It probably doesn't help, that even though I'm currently based out of High, I voted for several candidates from outside of high in addition to a high-seccer or two. Atypical for a high-sec player perhaps, but those I interact with may also be atypical.
I guess it could be enlightening to know how may players have just one character only in high, and only engaging in PVE unless made the opportunity of PVP.
What I'm getting at, is I'm wondering how big the "silent majority" is.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1915
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Posted - 2017.04.21 20:46:47 -
[172] - Quote
The great irony of all of this is that I was far and away the largest advocate for high-sec. The dirty little secret to the majority of our Finance group is we are largely highsec based. Production/Trade/Manip/Spec etc. Given we all participate in these things at a large scale level means we have an incentive to make it better.
But enough real talk.
Lawl, you guys cry like this every year. Every year we shower you with truth but you will never recognize it. So yep, we are going to have fun with it every year too.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Jenn aSide
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
15666
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Posted - 2017.04.21 21:41:04 -
[173] - Quote
When the CSM started the voting system was very simple. It resulted in null sec heavy CSMs.
CCP change the voting system to STV, to "help the smaller communities". Result: A null sec heavy CSM....
Hmmm, why does this sound familiar? Of yea, now I remember. EVE had a POS based SOV system. It resulted in big groups dominating null. So they created Dominion Sov, with the idea of "opening up null sec to small groups".. Result: A null sec of EVEN BIGGER Groups, oh and renters. So then comes Aegis Sov, that will do the trick! Result: See Dominion Sov.
Or what about that high sec ganking/scamming/awoxing/bumping/war deccing problem. I know, lets add anchor rigs, safeties, safety pop ups, a switch to turn off awoxxing, new crime watch, revamps of things like contracts to kill some scams etc etc. Result: People are STILL complaining about those things, and still swearing that it is those bad things that are killing EVE (even though EVE was healthier before CCP started trying to Gerrymander the game to "protect the small people".
What is that....Is that a.... oh wait, yes it is, it is a DISCERNABLE PATTERN emerging. Could it be possible that no amount of jiggery-pookery of various game mechanics and systems and voting methods is going to make maladjusted, apathetic, asocial small group/solo/casual players not suck enough to overcome organized and intelligent opposition? Could it be that all that efforts and dev time and sub money was wasted because you can't fix stupid? Could it be that base human nature is going to win no matter what anyone does and the only thing to actually do is learn how people work and adapt yourself to that rather than pinning your hopes on the idea that some magical change by DEVs can fix problems for you?
Hmmmm. I shall ponder these questions and get back to you.
/sarcasm
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
765
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Posted - 2017.04.21 21:46:43 -
[174] - Quote
Aryth wrote:The great irony of all of this is that I was far and away the largest advocate for high-sec. The dirty little secret to the majority of our Finance group is we are largely highsec based. Production/Trade/Manip/Spec etc. Given we all participate in these things at a large scale level means we have an incentive to make it better. Every single time, since I join this game, at every single fanfest and csm meeting, nullsec is top prio topic. It's becomes boring. Now we will get NPC that will act as players for NULL. Why you are suprised CSM has so bad reputation? CCP already cut CSM possibilities. They will just show "hot" content, half under NDA. What was the benefit from CSM? Anchorable bubbles, for whom? nullsec...It's obvious hisec and lowsec won't be represented because they won't get the masses to vote. CSM do not represent the players, it represent alliances. If CSM is so good why CCP thinks focus groups are good idea? Lack of faith?
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
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Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1100
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Posted - 2017.04.21 21:49:24 -
[175] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: Nobody can represent the idiots who can't even be bothered to vote.
Correct. This is not about people who do not vote. This is about people who vote and have a a playstyle that does not lend itself to the numbers game - see the long tail of first choices. Their groups and play styles do not have the organizational largess to effectively force the election of a candidate, yet the players themselves are, at least in my appraisal, part of the larger eve community, and if the CSM is to report the stated goal of representing the eve community, they should not be so systematically shut out of the process. They are.
i am actually grateful that you are a walking, talking proof that pubbies who whine about the csm underrepresenting highsec literally have no idea how the voting system works |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
850
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Posted - 2017.04.21 21:52:10 -
[176] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Aryth wrote:The great irony of all of this is that I was far and away the largest advocate for high-sec. The dirty little secret to the majority of our Finance group is we are largely highsec based. Production/Trade/Manip/Spec etc. Given we all participate in these things at a large scale level means we have an incentive to make it better. Every single time, since I join this game, at every single fanfest and csm meeting, nullsec is top prio topic. It's becomes boring. Now we will get NPC that will act as players for NULL. Why you are suprised CSM has so bad reputation? CCP already cut CSM possibilities. They will just show "hot" content, half under NDA. What was the benefit from CSM? Anchorable bubbles, for whom? nullsec...It's obvious hisec and lowsec won't be represented because they won't get the masses to vote. CSM do not represent the players, it represent alliances. If CSM is so good why CCP thinks focus groups are good idea? Lack of faith?
mark this formula!!!!!!!
CSM + CCP = EvE is Dying! SoonGäó ezzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1146
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Posted - 2017.04.21 21:58:29 -
[177] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Based on my personal experience and what others have told me about how and why they play I think it's more to do with engagement.
Someone who just logs in every day to shoot red crosses on their own and doesn't really engage with the rest of the game much probably also isn't going to engage with the CSM voting.
Similarly you're going to see more people willing to put themselves forward as candidates and better able to get their name out if they're very invested in and keyed into the game.
I've had a lot of people tell me over the years things along the lines of they don't have the time or the energy for Null/WHs/ect so that's why they're in High Sec. I've also seen similar things out of mission runners, Incursioners, Eve Uni teachers and staff, and similar groups that tend to have a more relaxed expectation of time and energy investment compared to a Null group that may have activity requirements or even just someone renting out there that needs to make enough ISK every month to pay the bills.
There's nothing particularly special about Eve having these lower engagement players, every game has them, they just stand out a little more around issues like this.
Most of them probably don't actually care who is even on the CSM.
As for how many of those players there actually are in the game, only CCP knows that, but based on activity numbers that are available to players and some of CCP's comments about ship use, mission running, and different playstyles I think it's probably quite a bit higher than most people figure.
Most people in null log in and just hit F1 when the FC says so, or rat/mine and dock up when a red comes in system. That's hardly engagement either. As a non-HS resident, representation on CSM should be proportional to the population that lives in that part of space. By character, not by player. That's a consequence of having HS alts.
Querns wrote:Irrelevant. Most of my characters live in highsec. They all vote straight GSF ticket.
You can't draw a meaningful conclusion from where characters are located, because characters don't vote based on their location. They vote based on their owner's identity and preferences. Location may be weakly correlated with identity, but it damn well isn't causing it.
The CSM election results show that an overwhelming number of folks identify as 0.0 players. Thus, nullsec is the most important part of the game.
You're proving my point. There should be a consequence of you hiding your alts risk-free in HS. That is less CSM representation. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Remember when people in null took risks? I 'member. |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
850
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Posted - 2017.04.21 22:13:27 -
[178] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote: You're proving my point. There should be a consequence of you hiding your alts risk-free in HS. That is less CSM representation. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Remember when people in null took risks? I 'member.
when were those times?
> bob times > cancer svipul times > useless rorquals > before fozzie sov > before jump range nerf
check your answer
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Tasspool Harp
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
52
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Posted - 2017.04.21 22:13:42 -
[179] - Quote
How are players on the Serenity server represented on the CSM or don't they count either ? |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
850
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Posted - 2017.04.21 22:45:02 -
[180] - Quote
Tasspool Harp wrote: How are players on the Serenity server represented on the CSM or don't they count either ?
aren't all those bots? with only one guy behind multiboxing them? *confused* |
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