Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 .. 13 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
|
CCP Oveur
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:06:00 -
[301]
Originally by: w0rmy Edited by: w0rmy on 11/05/2007 11:57:39
Originally by: CCP Oveur I just pointed out to you, where the boundary between mistake and exploit lies. That's what changed. We're also going to prevent this from being a problem at all when the fix came in yesterday and is enroute to deployment, that's what changed.
We're just trying to improve EVE my friend, this is how it will be till the fix is deployed. After that, nobody needs to fear doing direct item transactions, which is what is happening now. And that's very bad.
Someone was doing this two days ago, repeatedly, and your senior staff told people it was NOT an exploit. Now youre telling us doing the same thing that was petitioned two days ago, is an exploit. The actions havent changed, the response has. We arent fools, for once itd be nice not to be treated as such.
Originally by: CCP Oveur However I know about all his forum posting alt *****s, so I know it's not you
And here I was thinking I was childish!
I'm very sorry w0rmy, I wasn't aware you didn't like being called friend, being a fellow EVE pilot and all and that you didn't have a sense of humor. I beg your forgiveness.
On the topic at hand, when something like this surfaces, coming up through our GM queues, cases are dealt at the best judgement of the GMs. Especially with a vague case like this where it isn't a known bug already. Then more cases come in, it's escalated, investigation and policy is requested. A fix is put into process, policy is decided upon, then we announce how it's going to be handled and how we will deal with these cases from now on.
It's a process, it's not perfect, it does break, but you don't see the cases that don't break, you only see the ones that do. This is a good example of it breaking.
I hope this clarifies this matter. I'm off to lunch.
Senior Producer EVE Online
|
|
Simon Barrow
Basgerin Hounds
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:07:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Templer Relleg
Make it clear, or dont say anything tbh. Its more confusing than anything
Love Templer
He did.
Originally by: CCP Oveur No, this makes perfect sense. This can happen accidentally, we're not going to ban you for that. Doing it again, then again, that's abuse and is an exploit. It's about proof, really. If it happens accidentally once, it's basically word against word and both parties can argue that it was intentional or not.
If we see transactions like that twice, that's quite clear. Then you are exploiting.
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:07:00 -
[303]
Originally by: CCP Oveur Just to chime in on the latest news on this. We have a fix coming out that prevents this from happening. If you are cought doing this repeatedly till then, that's banhammer time.
Thank you so much! I assume since its an exploit now, I can get my blueprint back?
I guess it does get things fixed if you post them on the forum
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Templer Relleg
Exit 13 Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:08:00 -
[304]
Edited by: Templer Relleg on 11/05/2007 12:05:53 How many beers did you have today oveur?? Top quality laughs today you are giving me!
|
w0rmy
Pringles Inc. YouWhat
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:09:00 -
[305]
Edited by: w0rmy on 11/05/2007 12:10:30
Originally by: CCP Oveur
I'm very sorry w0rmy, I wasn't aware you didn't like being called friend, being a fellow EVE pilot and all and that you didn't have a sense of humor. I beg your forgiveness.
Appology accepted, but dont let it happen again!
But I still dont want to be your friend.
Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
|
Anson Halleck
Lost Eden
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:11:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I guess it does get things fixed if you post them on the forum
I am almost sure you guess wrong. They would fix it without you posting it anyways, since they were getting petitions. As far as I can say, the only effect of your post is more scammed ppl and more petitions for GMs to resolve.
|
Matrix Aran
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:11:00 -
[307]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Templer Relleg
Originally by: CCP Oveur Then you are exploiting.
But its NOT an exploit damnit!!!!
Dear Templer Relleg.
I am responsible for EVE. That means, I decide what is an exploit. Not you. Unless of course you have red hair, almost 2 meters tall and is the guy I report to, Hellmar. However I know about all his forum posting alt *****s, so I know it's not you
Forever yours,
Oveur
You've been pwned. ----
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:12:00 -
[308]
No offence Oveur, but this isn't the first time GMs have screwed up royally and declared exploits are OK. If it's an exploit, fair enough, but make sure the GMs aren't going around telling people it isn't and then banning them when they do it.
As it stands, I think your internal affairs guys need to take a SERIOUS look at the GMs, there's all kinds of incompetance and abuse going on there and the evidence is availible freely. Getting ships back on petition that I shouldn't have, being told two completely contradictory things by two different GMs and GMs still handing out the wrong info on issues such as this one.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:12:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Anson Halleck
Originally by: Dark Shikari I guess it does get things fixed if you post them on the forum
I am almost sure you guess wrong. They would fix it without you posting it anyways, since they were getting petitions. As far as I can say, the only effect of your post is more scammed ppl and more petitions for GMs to resolve.
When I petitioned, I was merely told basically "we're sorry for your loss, but its not an exploit"
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Templer Relleg
Exit 13 Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:13:00 -
[310]
Edited by: Templer Relleg on 11/05/2007 12:11:27
Originally by: Matrix Aran
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Templer Relleg
Originally by: CCP Oveur Then you are exploiting.
But its NOT an exploit damnit!!!!
Dear Templer Relleg.
I am responsible for EVE. That means, I decide what is an exploit. Not you. Unless of course you have red hair, almost 2 meters tall and is the guy I report to, Hellmar. However I know about all his forum posting alt *****s, so I know it's not you
Forever yours,
Oveur
You've been pwned.
I believe its just called love! But no, i didnt get pwned. By point is still valid.
|
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:13:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Matrix Aran
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Templer Relleg
Originally by: CCP Oveur Then you are exploiting.
But its NOT an exploit damnit!!!!
Dear Templer Relleg.
I am responsible for EVE. That means, I decide what is an exploit. Not you. Unless of course you have red hair, almost 2 meters tall and is the guy I report to, Hellmar. However I know about all his forum posting alt *****s, so I know it's not you
Forever yours,
Oveur
You've been pwned.
QFT, Oveur ftw
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Necronomicon
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:13:00 -
[312]
I reckon Hellmar stopped allowing faction social implants to be claimed under expenses :P
The new and unimpeded Oveur is much better than the old one.
Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
|
Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:15:00 -
[313]
Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 11/05/2007 12:17:23
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Oveur Just to chime in on the latest news on this. We have a fix coming out that prevents this from happening. If you are cought doing this repeatedly till then, that's banhammer time.
Thank you so much! I assume since its an exploit now, I can get my blueprint back?
I guess it does get things fixed if you post them on the forum
Looks like they have made a get-out cluase for your case bud!
If you are cought doing this repeatedly till then, that's banhammer time
Seems like you can get away 1 or 2 times before they will do anything!
Why can't they make a press release on loggin like they did with the Wasp drones when they were considered an exploit to use until they were fixed?
Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo |
w0rmy
Pringles Inc. YouWhat
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:16:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Nyphur No offence Oveur, but this isn't the first time GMs have screwed up royally and declared exploits are OK. If it's an exploit, fair enough, but make sure the GMs aren't going around telling people it isn't and then banning them when they do it.
This is the bit that troubles me.
A lot of people will not know about the change in policy. People have been told in game, via official channels it is allowed. Now, on the forums we have been informed that it isnt and is a banable offence.
I could completely understand how people could end up doing this, and end up being banned.
Will a news Item or something be posted, so those who dont read the forums will be informed of the change?
Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
|
max bygraves
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:18:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Originally by: max bygraves
It is NOT always with malicious intent. People often make mistakes, just because you havnt accidently cleared the give money part doesnt mean it doesnt happen. CLearing the GIve Money window cannot ever be an exploit, trying it over and over can
O rly?
Quote: 5. Remove the money as soon as possible after saying "accept.
How can this happen by mistake?
Quite easily, with one click, Mr Perfect.
|
Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:19:00 -
[316]
Question is, how many accounts did Dark Shikaris encouragement get banned as a result of his campaign?
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:19:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Oveur Just to chime in on the latest news on this. We have a fix coming out that prevents this from happening. If you are cought doing this repeatedly till then, that's banhammer time.
Thank you so much! I assume since its an exploit now, I can get my blueprint back?
I guess it does get things fixed if you post them on the forum
Looks like they have made a get-out cluase for your case bud!
If you are cought doing this repeatedly till then, that's banhammer time
Seems like you can get away 1 or 2 times before they will do anything!
Kittypaws was the originator of this and the one who got me... she's done it hundreds of times, so I can see the banhammer hitting
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:20:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Wendat Huron Question is, how many accounts did Dark Shikaris encouragement get banned as a result of his campaign?
I don't think they're going to use permabans for this, since they were so vague on whether it was an exploit or not.
At most they'll probably hand out lots of tempbans if people keep doing it.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:21:00 -
[319]
Edited by: Taikun on 11/05/2007 12:20:05
Originally by: CCP Oveur I am responsible for EVE. Forever yours,
Oveur
My wife is pizzed at you for this game. She's harping on and on and on about how much time I spend in here. Mind providing a contact email so I can direct her complaining directly to the source.
Thanks, Taikun
|
Ebusitanus
Mythical Warriors and Workers
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:22:00 -
[320]
I think CCP has left the issue very clear here. Playing dumb right now seems more like buying time to scam a few more unaware folks than being unable to grasp what has been posted here by CCP.
I do hope that some sort of anouncement could be made at the log in page so that those not reading this thread but happily scaming through this loophole get warning to stop their actions as of now...be it because of pure greed or as the very succesful campaign to get CCP attention. ------------------------------------------------ "Stop quoting laws, we carry weapons!"
Pompey the Great to the defenders of a besieged city who were crying outrage. |
|
News
Minmatar Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:24:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I guess it does get things fixed if you post them on the forum
You say that like it's something new. I thought sentry guns had proven that point long ago.
|
Shadowsword
Kermit Space Industies
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:25:00 -
[322]
Originally by: CCP Oveur I'll clarify this. If we see in your logs that you are doing this repeatedly, that's intent. Then you are banned. This is abuse of a flaw in our system. Once is a mistake. Twice is intent.
Does this also apply to POS bowling? Seems pretty much like an "abuse of a flaw in our system" to me...
------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane. |
w0rmy
Pringles Inc. YouWhat
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:27:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Kittypaws was the originator of this and the one who got me... she's done it hundreds of times, so I can see the banhammer hitting
I hope not! As untill a few minutes ago the official response was that it was not an exploit.
Now if kittypaws starts up again after DT, thats a different story.
Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
|
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:35:00 -
[324]
Edited by: Taikun on 11/05/2007 12:33:14
Originally by: w0rmy
Originally by: Dark Shikari Kittypaws was the originator of this and the one who got me... she's done it hundreds of times, so I can see the banhammer hitting
I hope not! As untill a few minutes ago the official response was that it was not an exploit.
Now if kittypaws starts up again after DT, thats a different story.
Ummm... intent was the criteria. Personally my "intent" would be to have Kittypaws, her alts, corpmates, family, pets, neighbours and the people she takes the bus to work with all banned for life from any CCP product and/or service forever.
Just my opinion/dying wish of course.
Taikun
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:35:00 -
[325]
Originally by: w0rmy
Originally by: Dark Shikari Kittypaws was the originator of this and the one who got me... she's done it hundreds of times, so I can see the banhammer hitting
I hope not! As untill a few minutes ago the official response was that it was not an exploit.
Now if kittypaws starts up again after DT, thats a different story.
I agree. They should probably roll back the trades, but banning would be wrong for obvious reasons. They shouldn't be harsh on those abusing it who haven't seen Oveur's update, also.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Othello Pajamas
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:36:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Kittypaws was the originator of this and the one who got me... she's done it hundreds of times, so I can see the banhammer hitting
Why do you think that? During the "hundreds of times" she did it everyone was told it "isn't an exploit". Now you want CCP to turn around and ban her after doing something they told everyone was perfectly fine?
Of course, if she were to CONTINUE doing this now that CCP has finally woken and declared this to be an exploit that certainly would merit a warning or two - and then a ban. You shouldn't change the definition of something that was allowed by the GM's into an exploit and then apply the new standard overnight, without providing warnings, or for past behavior that was deemed to be allowable.
If she's smart she'll just stop doing it while she is way ahead and not risk getting banned by one of the GM's who blew this call and overreacts to far in the other now by not providing warnings first.
|
w0rmy
Pringles Inc. YouWhat
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:40:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Othello Pajamas If she's smart she'll just stop doing it while she is way ahead
If shes smart shell be watching this thread like a hawk!
Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
|
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:41:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Othello Pajamas You shouldn't change the definition of something that was allowed by the GM's into an exploit and then apply the new standard overnight, without providing warnings, or for past behavior that was deemed to be allowable.
Why not? Do you have some dark Jita trade secret in your log files?
I say nail her to a cross and be damned about opinion because what Kittypaws did was flat out exploitation in the eyes of the community.
Taikun
|
Othello Pajamas
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:44:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Taikun I say nail her to a cross and be damned about opinion because what Kittypaws did was flat out exploitation in the eyes of the community.
Taikun
Nail her to a cross for what? Scamming that was deemed to be not an exploit right up till a few miniutes ago? Yeah, that would be smart.
|
Ashraaf
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2007.05.11 12:45:00 -
[330]
Edited by: Ashraaf on 11/05/2007 12:45:46 Ty Oveur for the answer and the distinction between Accidental and Exploit :)
It's clear that doing thing once, it's 99% accident or discover of a problem. Doing thing 2 or more is the way to exploting and that a bannable offense.
One thing in the process that's seem strange is the way GM make statement. And Chribba stat this well, it's not the "first time GM screwed up royally" and it's happen more and more often We know it's not allways a easy job. Ans as you said we only see when the process break. On majority GM common sense are good. But maybe it will be better to took time, but the petition in a halt, check advice and answer. We could not blame someone who said "I don't know i check for the answer", but making statement without reflexion or knowledge make people look stupid, and we lots confidence about GM.
More, it's not easy for CCP to said our GM make stupid statement, and to go against their decision. I don't know how is the process, but an experience team who can work on "strange situation"
Maybe this problem improve the process :)
Have a good appetite, some beer :)
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 .. 13 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |