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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.05.11 12:53:00 -
[331]
Edited by: Taikun on 11/05/2007 12:51:48
Originally by: Othello Pajamas
Originally by: Taikun I say nail her to a cross and be damned about opinion because what Kittypaws did was flat out exploitation in the eyes of the community.
Taikun
Nail her to a cross for what? Scamming that was deemed to be not an exploit right up till a few miniutes ago? Yeah, that would be smart.
A few minuites ago?? You sure about that? Kittypaws was warned already this was exploiting.
Take at look at this thread when it all came out.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=516543
CLEARLY Kittypaws was WELL aware when she was warned not to post exploits. She KNEW she was EXPLOITING but chose to continue the behaviour.
Kittypaws is a griefer and KNEW damn well not to carry out this activity for several days. But chose to continue it.
Why are you defending her behaviour?? Again I ask... do you have a secret money making alt using this exploit/tactic??
Taikun
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Zhelavar
Gallente CONsordium Infinate
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Posted - 2007.05.11 12:56:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I guess it does get things fixed if you post them on the forum
Sometimes it does. However this was not an example of that. This was more an example of a few people really blowing things out of proportion and playing every possible level of semantics and spin to make sure a good 10 pages of drama were generated about an otherwise simple issue.
No, I did not say trivial issue. I said simple issue, DS.
. ================================================== EVE Vault: EVE Vault
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Sexy Schoolgirl
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Posted - 2007.05.11 12:58:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Dark Shikari .
When I petitioned, I was merely told basically "we're sorry for your loss, but its not an exploit"
That's been the story for the last year. I've petitioned several enemy lag tactics that made me lose ships... do I get those back now that devs may give back your bpo? Or, should I just post here and whine about a game tactic that really isn't an exploit, since I was never reimbursed for my loss due to it. Or, maybe I just need to be a daily forum *****, who doesn't mind getting a little brown stuff on his nose once in a while.
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Ozstar
Naughty 40
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Posted - 2007.05.11 13:04:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Othello Pajamas
Originally by: Dark Shikari Kittypaws was the originator of this and the one who got me... she's done it hundreds of times, so I can see the banhammer hitting
Why do you think that? During the "hundreds of times" she did it everyone was told it "isn't an exploit". Now you want CCP to turn around and ban her after doing something they told everyone was perfectly fine?
Of course, if she were to CONTINUE doing this now that CCP has finally woken and declared this to be an exploit that certainly would merit a warning or two - and then a ban. You shouldn't change the definition of something that was allowed by the GM's into an exploit and then apply the new standard overnight, without providing warnings, or for past behavior that was deemed to be allowable.
If she's smart she'll just stop doing it while she is way ahead and not risk getting banned by one of the GM's who blew this call and overreacts to far in the other now by not providing warnings first.
sometimes bad things happen to bad people
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.05.11 13:16:00 -
[335]
The forum rules are a powerful tool: if you want something that isn't an exploit yet made into one, you just post a thread about it and attract so much attention that Oveur will call it an exploit just to be able to lock the thread (according to the forum rules since it's an exploit then).
:-P
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Othello Pajamas
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Posted - 2007.05.11 13:20:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Taikun Why are you defending her behaviour?? Again I ask... do you have a secret money making alt using this exploit/tactic??
Taikun
To answer your utterly irrelevant question directly - no, I have never done this exploit/tactic nor have I been a victim of it. I also think that scamming in general is utterly lame. I just happen to dislike mobs that want rule changes applied retroactively even more than scammers.
Clear enough for you?
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.05.11 13:24:00 -
[337]
Edited by: Taikun on 11/05/2007 13:24:38
Originally by: Othello Pajamas I just happen to dislike mobs that want rule changes applied retroactively even more than scammers.
Then you missed the bit about Kittypaws being warned by CCP for posting this Exploit and continuing the behaviour 4 days ago.
Again I state the CCP determined this was in fact a EXPLOIT 4 days ago when Kittypaws posted it. Any one-on-one communication between DS and his petitions are between him and them... Kittypaws knew her behaviour was unacceptable via the warning in these forums.
She chose to ignore them. She chose her fate. Accordingly she deserves the wrath of the CCP gods crashing down upon her and her ilk. Nothing retrospective about it in the least.
Clear enough for you?
Taikun
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Gerber Baby
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Posted - 2007.05.11 13:56:00 -
[338]
When I talked to several Senior GM's about this, it wasn't an exploit yesterday. They said it would NOT, repeat, NOT, go retroactive.
If it goes retroactive, thats just BS to the rest of us who did it once or twice.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.11 14:12:00 -
[339]
I was just reimbursed for the ISK amount that I was trading my BPO for.
While I don't think they are banning any of the people who used this when it wasn't declared an exploit, I would suggest that everyone who got scammed petition again to get reimbursed.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Jif Lemming
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Posted - 2007.05.11 15:01:00 -
[340]
ooh look!
An inconsistent approach by CCP to a broken mechanic which may or may not be an exploit.
That doesn't happen very often does it?
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Jason Marshall
Hammer Of Light
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Posted - 2007.05.11 15:08:00 -
[341]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Templer Relleg
Originally by: CCP Oveur Then you are exploiting.
But its NOT an exploit damnit!!!!
Dear Templer Relleg.
I am responsible for EVE. That means, I decide what is an exploit. Not you. Unless of course you have red hair, almost 2 meters tall and is the guy I report to, Hellmar. However I know about all his forum posting alt *****s, so I know it's not you
Forever yours,
Oveur
Oveur...That made up for any devlepor misconduct. You are good people making a great game. AND AFTER ALL THIS WHINNING AND *****ING You still manage to have a sense of humor.
Tacky Lensflares in sigs ftw
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Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.05.11 15:09:00 -
[342]
In any customer service team, you will get varying results in extinuating circumstances. As an example, I work in the CS department of a large ISP. Whilst there are general guidelines on what is, what is not acceptable, in any situation (ways to relocate, move contracts, how much credit to give in various circumstances etc) there is no possible way to have 1 single answer for every possible problem.
In this case, I would suggest the Senior CS did express poor judgement, however I would not put him nor the rest of the CS team down for it. These guys need to make informed decisions. They may grab a few other senior's and decide why/why not this should be allowed, or they may misunderstand the petition in question (or petition wasn't clear enough) also.
Most compensation type claims can have multiple answers, and be interpreted differently, or handled by people with different levels of knowledge. Consistency is always nice, but in these kinds of situations (not this one specifically, I refer to those 'out of the norm') mistakes can be made from time to time as can misinterpretation.
Sick of the waits with empire research slots? Use mine! |
Valan
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Posted - 2007.05.11 15:18:00 -
[343]
Edited by: Valan on 11/05/2007 15:16:39 To a certain extent you're correct but once an issue has been identified within an hour (max) there should be an internal communication giving instruction to ensure a consistent approach. This is a standar operating procedure anything else is incompetent.
All the mail has to say is either.
It's an exploit ban and refund.
It's not an exploit fob them off.
Days later an we still aren't sure? What does that tell you?
/start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig |
Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.05.11 15:41:00 -
[344]
I would agree that a meeting between devs should have been scheduled immediately as word spread through the forums, the immediate shutdown of the TQ cluster, and restart with trade disabled whilst the bug/exploit was addressed.
However, that is just my POV. CCP chose to do things differently and I don't think they can really be blamed for it as we don't know what goes on inside their offices.
Sick of the waits with empire research slots? Use mine! |
Emo Jelli
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:04:00 -
[345]
So if this is now an exploit why hasn't Dark Shikari been banned yet for posting it?
Emo JelliÖ¡¡ - Foodstuff for the Emotionally Unstable |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:08:00 -
[346]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/05/2007 16:06:39
Originally by: Emo Jelli So if this is now an exploit why hasn't Dark Shikari been banned yet for posting it?
It wasn't an exploit when I posted it, duh?
It doesn't apply retroactively you know.
And if they wanted to remove it, they certainly could, and I would have no problem with it...
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Valan
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:09:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Ricdic I would agree that a meeting between devs should have been scheduled immediately as word spread through the forums, the immediate shutdown of the TQ cluster, and restart with trade disabled whilst the bug/exploit was addressed.
However, that is just my POV. CCP chose to do things differently and I don't think they can really be blamed for it as we don't know what goes on inside their offices.
To be honest it wouldn't have to be as drastic as that from the off. Just needs someone to decide whether its an exploit or not. In house procedures should then roll from that point on.
I kind of get the feeling CCP is low on procedures and is big on a dynamic environment. But that can be bad if everyone is being dynamic in a different direction.
/start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig |
Emo Jelli
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:28:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/05/2007 16:06:39
Originally by: Emo Jelli So if this is now an exploit why hasn't Dark Shikari been banned yet for posting it?
It wasn't an exploit when I posted it, duh?
It doesn't apply retroactively you know.
And if they wanted to remove it, they certainly could, and I would have no problem with it...
1: You knew it was exploit all along.
2: Yes it does.
3: That's very good of you, but why do you think you are entitled to special forum treatment?
Emo JelliÖ¡¡ - Foodstuff for the Emotionally Unstable |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:29:00 -
[349]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/05/2007 16:28:05
Originally by: Emo Jelli
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/05/2007 16:06:39
Originally by: Emo Jelli So if this is now an exploit why hasn't Dark Shikari been banned yet for posting it?
It wasn't an exploit when I posted it, duh?
It doesn't apply retroactively you know.
And if they wanted to remove it, they certainly could, and I would have no problem with it...
1: You knew it was exploit all along.
Do I have to make the text nice and big?
I was told by a Senior GM that it was not an exploit.
How am I supposed to magically know they will change their mind?
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Emo Jelli
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:33:00 -
[350]
Edited by: Emo Jelli on 11/05/2007 16:31:47
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/05/2007 16:28:05
Originally by: Emo Jelli
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/05/2007 16:06:39
Originally by: Emo Jelli So if this is now an exploit why hasn't Dark Shikari been banned yet for posting it?
It wasn't an exploit when I posted it, duh?
It doesn't apply retroactively you know.
And if they wanted to remove it, they certainly could, and I would have no problem with it...
1: You knew it was exploit all along.
Do I have to make the text nice and big?
I was told by a Senior GM that it was not an exploit.
How am I supposed to magically know they will change their mind?
By starting this DRAMA THREAD and knowing you won't be banned for it unlike 99.95% of the playerbase. Don't play the innocent fool as only half of that statement is appropriate.
Emo JelliÖ¡¡ - Foodstuff for the Emotionally Unstable |
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:35:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Emo Jelli By starting this DRAMA THREAD and knowing you won't be banned for it unlike 99.95% of the playerbase. Don't play the innocent fool as only half of that statement is appropriate.
I started the thread BECAUSE I was told it wasn't an exploit, and I wanted to make it be declared an exploit.
I achieved my goal.
You on the other hand are a cowardly alt trying to troll this thread.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Emo Jelli
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:38:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Emo Jelli By starting this DRAMA THREAD and knowing you won't be banned for it unlike 99.95% of the playerbase. Don't play the innocent fool as only half of that statement is appropriate.
I started the thread BECAUSE I was told it wasn't an exploit, and I wanted to make it be declared an exploit.
I achieved my goal.
You on the other hand are a cowardly alt trying to troll this thread.
1: I am no alt.
2: I am looking to see the same rules applied to all players.
3: As usual you move onto personal attacks when you fail at all other arguments. So who exactly is the troll?
Emo JelliÖ¡¡ - Foodstuff for the Emotionally Unstable |
DarkMatter
Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:40:00 -
[353]
Edited by: DarkMatter on 11/05/2007 16:39:39 So, this mechanic was exploitable since day one?
I mean, there has been lag in Yulai/Jita for some time, how long have asshats like this kitty sh!thead been doing this?
I seriously hope they go a ways back in the transactions and use the banhammer liberally...
BTW, good job DS...
Building the homestead
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News
Minmatar Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:42:00 -
[354]
Edited by: News on 11/05/2007 16:40:33
Originally by: Dark Shikari It doesn't apply retroactively you know.
Not saying you should be banned, on the contrary. But in the same line of thinking, the people who took advantage of this while it wasn't deemed an exploit, shouldn't be banned either. Their illegal ISK taken away, sure, banning, no.
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:43:00 -
[355]
Edited by: eLLioTT wave on 11/05/2007 16:42:18 Please CCP instead of banning exploiters...
make them red to EVERYONE for 1 week make them auto undock every 2 minutes make them auto undock even if they're logged off (edit) also make ALL their characters on the same account have this happen
This would be a lot more fun for everyone and let the player base take care of the exploiter.
Please :) |
Radioactive Babe
Red Frost
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:43:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Emo Jelli ... waahhh, DS got my scam nerfed ....
DS, congratulations on getting this crap looked at and properly labelled an exploit. If the scamtards have a problem, they can always fly down there and blow you up cant they |
WredStorm
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:44:00 -
[357]
Edited by: WredStorm on 11/05/2007 16:44:15 Don't ya just love the trolls, like Emo, who have nothing better to do than try to be argumentative?
DS, thanks for letting everyone know about this. Yes, I'm sure several people got scammed due to the influx of new people trying this out, but hopefully the victims will petition and be appropriately reimbursed. And if CCP's customer support team is really pro-active, they'd reopen existing petitions that fit this problem and reimburse those folks, too.
As for the folks that are biatching about DS revealing this scam to everyone, you fall into one of three buckets. You're either upset because 1) this thread caused you to get scammed, in which case you can go back and petition to have your stuff restored or 2) you're a scammer that is upset that this is being fixed... boohoo, or 3) you're a troll, in which case you have little choice other than to go sit under your bridge.
I think the vast majority of players will benefit from the actions this thread has forced CCP to take. It is a real shame that it took such a post to force CCP to make a change... the ideal situation would have been that the Senior GM that DS was dealing with would have seen this as a problem worthy of an immediate fix and escalated it appropriately, then gotten back to DS and said "we're working on it, please don't reveal it while we get it fixed". But, as has been stated already, no customer service department is perfect and mistakes are made... the important thing is that this one is being corrected and CCP's customer support is now, apparently, taking care of those victimized by this problem.
WredStorm ----- Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised! |
Emo Jelli
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Posted - 2007.05.11 16:56:00 -
[358]
Originally by: WredStorm Edited by: WredStorm on 11/05/2007 16:44:15[/edit I think the vast majority of players will benefit from the actions this thread has forced CCP to take. It is a real shame that it took such a post to force CCP to make a change... the ideal situation would have been that the Senior GM that DS was dealing with would have seen this as a problem worthy of an immediate fix and escalated it appropriately, then gotten back to DS and said "we're working on it, please don't reveal it while we get it fixed". But, as has been stated already, no customer service department is perfect and mistakes are made... the important thing is that this one is being corrected and CCP's customer support is now, apparently, taking care of those victimized by this problem.
WredStorm
And this is how most potential exploits or flaws in the game mechanics are dealt with in EVE. Unless of course its Dark Shikari who spots them and then its off to the forums he goes regardless looking for fame and glory.
Even when not getting the answer that he should have received from the original GM or senior GM on follow up the forum rules clearly state that the playerbase is not to post details on these boards.
This is where Dark Shikari crossed the line, this is what he does often with his better than the rest of us behaviour and this is what aggravates and annoys a significant proportion of the playerbase who know if they had done something similar they would have been warned and/or banned.
My posting in this thread is not against the discovery of this scam but the method in which it was revealed. Do not feed Dark Shikari's ego with your narrow minded ignorance just because you can only see the personal benefits his peacock like display has brought to you.
Emo JelliÖ¡¡ - Foodstuff for the Emotionally Unstable |
Radioactive Babe
Red Frost
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Posted - 2007.05.11 17:03:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Emo Jelli
My posting in this thread is not against the discovery of this scam but the method in which it was revealed. Do not feed Dark Shikari's ego with your narrow minded ignorance just because you can only see the personal benefits his peacock like display has brought to you.
WTF? ... he was told by GM's that its not an exploit ... but it was obviously a scam, he was within the EULA publicising it and lets be honest if he had kept schtum he could have made a load of isk out of it. So he served the community a great service ....
You on the other hand are trolling, and should get a warning for it. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.11 17:03:00 -
[360]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/05/2007 17:01:32
Originally by: Emo Jelli
Originally by: WredStorm Edited by: WredStorm on 11/05/2007 16:44:15 I think the vast majority of players will benefit from the actions this thread has forced CCP to take. It is a real shame that it took such a post to force CCP to make a change... the ideal situation would have been that the Senior GM that DS was dealing with would have seen this as a problem worthy of an immediate fix and escalated it appropriately, then gotten back to DS and said "we're working on it, please don't reveal it while we get it fixed". But, as has been stated already, no customer service department is perfect and mistakes are made... the important thing is that this one is being corrected and CCP's customer support is now, apparently, taking care of those victimized by this problem.
WredStorm
And this is how most potential exploits or flaws in the game mechanics are dealt with in EVE. Unless of course its Dark Shikari who spots them and then its off to the forums he goes regardless looking for fame and glory.
Even when not getting the answer that he should have received from the original GM or senior GM on follow up the forum rules clearly state that the playerbase is not to post details on these boards.
This is where Dark Shikari crossed the line, this is what he does often with his better than the rest of us behaviour and this is what aggravates and annoys a significant proportion of the playerbase who know if they had done something similar they would have been warned and/or banned.
My posting in this thread is not against the discovery of this scam but the method in which it was revealed. Do not feed Dark Shikari's ego with your narrow minded ignorance just because you can only see the personal benefits his peacock like display has brought to you.
How do you expect me to get a Senior GM ruling overturned without making the method public knowledge? Magic? Pixie dust?
There is no rule that I cannot post something that I have been told isn't an exploit. The rule is that you can't explicitly post the text of GM conversations.
Please stop trolling this thread.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
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