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Pheusia
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.09 19:50:00 -
[1]
OK this is my alt, whom I have been skilling up in basic leadership skills;
Armored Warfare / Rank 2 / SP: 16000 of 90510 level 3 Information Warfare / Rank 2 / SP: 16000 of 90510 level 5 Leadership / Rank 1 / SP: 256000 of 256000 level 2 Mining Foreman / Rank 2 / SP: 9972 of 16000 level 5 Siege Warfare / Rank 2 / SP: 512000 of 512000 level 4 Skirmish Warfare / Rank 2 / SP: 387925 of 512000 +Currently training to: level 5 +Time left: 2 days, 16 hours, 47 minutes, 1 seconds +SP done: 79 of 124075 level 1 Warfare Link Specialist / Rank 6 / SP: 1500 of 8486 level 1 Wing Command / Rank 8 / SP: 2000 of 11314 +8 Leadership skills trained, for a total of 1,201,397 skillPoints.
Now as far as I can tell, to make the gang bonuses really worthwhile, I'll need to get Siege / Skirmish Warfare Specialisation to 5, Warfare Link Spec to 5, Cybernetics 5 - this will allow me to get in a BC, run a couple of Warfare Links and fit a mindlink implant. About a 5M SP commitment. Then about another 7M SP or so to make the logical next step and get into a Command ship. That's 7 or 8 months of solid training.
Is it really worth it? Has anyone done this and would like to comment? This character is primarily a support character for my main; she mines and hauls, but mining ain't so good as it used to be and she can mine pretty well anyway, so I'm developing her with more support skills. But there's no point training the Warfare Spec. Skills unless you're going to take them all the way as far as I can see.
"Malcanis"
PS: I am not open to the idea of just buying a character with all the requisite skills. Certain recent threads in the general folder have confirmed my suspicion that doing that would not be a good idea. Signed, Pheusia |
ReconPete
Skill Level Six Ground Zeero
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Posted - 2007.05.09 20:48:00 -
[2]
Depends on your goals, but the bonus can mean the difference between a pod floating in space and a large repair bill back at the station... I'll take the repair bill every time.
I typically gang with mission runners just to help them with the bonus while I sit at a POS, plotting the takeover of the galaxy. I've been told more than once, "hey man, without that bonus, I would have lost me ship" etc... missions, ratting, PvP.
Men ought either to be indulged or utterly destroyed, for if you merely offend them they take vengeance... |
Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.05.09 21:22:00 -
[3]
Originally by: ReconPete Depends on your goals, but the bonus can mean the difference between a pod floating in space and a large repair bill back at the station... I'll take the repair bill every time.
I typically gang with mission runners just to help them with the bonus while I sit at a POS, plotting the takeover of the galaxy. I've been told more than once, "hey man, without that bonus, I would have lost me ship" etc... missions, ratting, PvP.
Ok thx. Which of the warfare links do you find the most useful in practice? Any other advice?
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ReconPete
Skill Level Six Ground Zeero
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Posted - 2007.05.09 21:29:00 -
[4]
Again, depends. If your gang is mostly shield tankers with boosters, there's a specific link for that. Same for passive tankers. Armor as well... haven't looked hard enough to see if there's a structure tanking link
Anyway, take a moment and read up on the links... the ideas will flow based on your gang composition. Keep training these up, you may need that bonus one day soon...
Men ought either to be indulged or utterly destroyed, for if you merely offend them they take vengeance... |
VaderDSL
Caldari Incoherent Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.09 21:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: ReconPete Depends on your goals, but the bonus can mean the difference between a pod floating in space and a large repair bill back at the station... I'll take the repair bill every time.
I typically gang with mission runners just to help them with the bonus while I sit at a POS, plotting the takeover of the galaxy. I've been told more than once, "hey man, without that bonus, I would have lost me ship" etc... missions, ratting, PvP.
Ok thx. Which of the warfare links do you find the most useful in practice? Any other advice?
PvP ... All four are useful, the skirmish side more so
PvE ... Armour and Shield ones
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Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.05.09 21:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: ReconPete Again, depends. If your gang is mostly shield tankers with boosters, there's a specific link for that. Same for passive tankers. Armor as well... haven't looked hard enough to see if there's a structure tanking link
Anyway, take a moment and read up on the links... the ideas will flow based on your gang composition. Keep training these up, you may need that bonus one day soon...
yeah, mostly shield tankers, thus the current skill choice. 35 days to train up armour as well though.... ouch.
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Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.05.09 21:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: VaderDSL
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: ReconPete Depends on your goals, but the bonus can mean the difference between a pod floating in space and a large repair bill back at the station... I'll take the repair bill every time.
I typically gang with mission runners just to help them with the bonus while I sit at a POS, plotting the takeover of the galaxy. I've been told more than once, "hey man, without that bonus, I would have lost me ship" etc... missions, ratting, PvP.
Ok thx. Which of the warfare links do you find the most useful in practice? Any other advice?
PvP ... All four are useful, the skirmish side more so
PvE ... Armour and Shield ones
Thx. The Evasive Maneuvers link looks particularly nice for small gang PvP.
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Balcura
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Posted - 2007.05.10 01:33:00 -
[8]
I have access to commandships (caldari ones any way) mining director to 5 and the mining implant. I let someone else tank and run the 22.5% bounus to mining laser cycle time and 15% bonus to mining laser yield. In a harbinger I can run 7 lasers myself, the tank in an apoc can run 8 making every ship in the gang 1/3 more effective (we make 1.333* as much with me there and my links running as they would without me there).
I also have seige warfare spec 4 (working on 5) and find that the armor tankers find the extra resists to shields useful. I will be doing the armor warfare and skirmish warfare ones next... can make a tech 2 gang that much better and last long enough to kill off 3x their numbers.
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Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.05.10 11:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Balcura I have access to commandships (caldari ones any way) mining director to 5 and the mining implant. I let someone else tank and run the 22.5% bounus to mining laser cycle time and 15% bonus to mining laser yield. In a harbinger I can run 7 lasers myself, the tank in an apoc can run 8 making every ship in the gang 1/3 more effective (we make 1.333* as much with me there and my links running as they would without me there).
I also have seige warfare spec 4 (working on 5) and find that the armor tankers find the extra resists to shields useful. I will be doing the armor warfare and skirmish warfare ones next... can make a tech 2 gang that much better and last long enough to kill off 3x their numbers.
Useful information. It's intersting that you say that the shield resist bonuses help the armour tankers - I guess being able to soak up an extra volley before you have to switch on the reppers can help some. Am I correct in thinking that the bonuses from the warfare links stack as if they were modules fitted to the receipients' ships?
As Pheu can mine vastly better than I can or will ever be able to, she'll always be the one in the mining barge, regardless of gang mining bonuses.
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Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.10 15:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Pheusia my alt, whom I have been skilling up in .. leadership skills
IMHO very good choice for an alt. For example even in combat where you have barely to time to focus on your main char, you r alt can idle far away giving you +35% bonuses.
For the future plan: - Get all basic skills to max (since you'll be put often as the top guy, you might as well give everyone max regular bonuses) - Pick one area, and focus on getting mindlink + fleet command ship for that (possibly consult your mates for the correct trait) - And finally get skill to fit Command Processors
As bonus, you'll be always warmly welcomed to gangs (especially if you focus on 'fun and visible' traits, like MWD speed).
-Lasse with Siege/Skirmish alt
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.05.10 19:15:00 -
[11]
I think its a good idea. I prefer to look at it this way: For every 5 miners in a Fleet, I add another Hulk. For every 5 PVP'rs, I add another Cruiser. The stronger my gangmates are, the bigger the benefit.
I've recently completed Fleet Command 3, specifically so that I can give out bonuses to more people. I differ from you in that I do it with my main, running one gang module from a Carrier.
BTW, I'm hoping that the rumors about a 'Fleet Carrier' in the future would allow me to run more than one gang module.
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Talmssar
Caldari Raptus Regaliter Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:11:00 -
[12]
M÷h!
Simple as it is just seek out ineve.com. There is few mad maniacs with good skills for leadership... Fleet command ships arent tho worth of bonus difference. It is VERY little difference compared to TI ship with midlink on his head. I would say it is better to get midlink skill before command ship.
I just prefer that all have good time here. |
Passin Through
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Posted - 2007.05.10 22:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Princess Jodi I've recently completed Fleet Command 3,
For your attributes to carry down to those below you the squad commanders have to have at least Level V leadership.
But to answer your question: I never go anywhere in Combat without my Command Shield bonus alt.
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Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.05.11 06:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Talmssar M÷h!
Simple as it is just seek out ineve.com. There is few mad maniacs with good skills for leadership... Fleet command ships arent tho worth of bonus difference. It is VERY little difference compared to TI ship with midlink on his head. I would say it is better to get midlink skill before command ship.
The big attraction of command ships is that they can mount 3 Warfare links. I was pondering the combination of (for example) the 3 Skirmish Warfare links, combined with the mindlink implant, for a small-ships gang.
The mindlinks are cheap enough now that you can buy a few and swap them around if you need to, especially if you have a couple of jumpclones (eg: mining mindlink for carebearing JC, seige mindlink for mission-running JC, skirmish mindlink for PvP JC). They're only a couple of million ISK now. Perhaps I should stock up while they're cheap.
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Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.05.11 06:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Heikki
Originally by: Pheusia my alt, whom I have been skilling up in .. leadership skills
IMHO very good choice for an alt. For example even in combat where you have barely to time to focus on your main char, you r alt can idle far away giving you +35% bonuses.
For the future plan: - Get all basic skills to max (since you'll be put often as the top guy, you might as well give everyone max regular bonuses) - Pick one area, and focus on getting mindlink + fleet command ship for that (possibly consult your mates for the correct trait) - And finally get skill to fit Command Processors
As bonus, you'll be always warmly welcomed to gangs (especially if you focus on 'fun and visible' traits, like MWD speed).
-Lasse with Siege/Skirmish alt
Excellent advice. Thank you very much. Having Pheu 'idle' while dishing out tasty bonuses to friends was exactly what I had in mind. What a pity the warfare links don't work while one is cloaked (I know that would be unbalanced but those Eos ain't cheap!).
PS How do you get "+35%" bonuses? My newbly-made calculations came to 22.5%.
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Mike Yagon
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.12 10:39:00 -
[16]
Out of curiosity, how useful are the Information Warfare links in PVP?
------ In Carebear We Trust |
Sebroth
FinFleet
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Posted - 2007.05.13 15:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mike Yagon Out of curiosity, how useful are the Information Warfare links in PVP?
if you are in a ew heavy gang I would say they are nice
but as a rapier pilot I have say I love skirmish warfare links
with recon 5 and 35% bonus from a CS pilot t1 web -> 54km ts web -> 75km domi web -> 81km
you have to be crasy not to love that ----- Never knock on Death's door; ring the doorbell and run (he hates that) |
Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.05.14 16:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sebroth
Originally by: Mike Yagon Out of curiosity, how useful are the Information Warfare links in PVP?
if you are in a ew heavy gang I would say they are nice
but as a rapier pilot I have say I love skirmish warfare links
with recon 5 and 35% bonus from a CS pilot t1 web -> 54km ts web -> 75km domi web -> 81km
you have to be crasy not to love that
Hmmm, seems kind of unfair that the Minmatari Command Ship doesn't get a a link bonus when those of all the other races do. A Skirmish bonus for Minmatari ships makes a lot more sense than an EW bonus for gallante, surely?
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SIR PRIME
Minmatar Equinox Eternal Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.16 11:17:00 -
[19]
Edited by: SIR PRIME on 16/06/2007 11:16:59 It does you may be looking at the Field Command variant (Sleipneir) not the Fleet Command (Claymore). The Claymore gives 3% bonus per level to Skirmish Warfare Links.
Gallente Eos - Information Amarr Damnation - Armor Caldari Vulture - Siege Minmatar Claymore - Skirmish
But as someone mentioned the real bonus is really to be able to use 3 links with no command processors. It gets silly when you find yourself learning all the racial ships just to maximise bonuses.
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.16 18:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: SIR PRIME Edited by: SIR PRIME on 16/06/2007 11:16:59 It does you may be looking at the Field Command variant (Sleipneir) not the Fleet Command (Claymore). The Claymore gives 3% bonus per level to Skirmish Warfare Links.
Gallente Eos - Information Amarr Damnation - Armor Caldari Vulture - Siege Minmatar Claymore - Skirmish
But as someone mentioned the real bonus is really to be able to use 3 links with no command processors. It gets silly when you find yourself learning all the racial ships just to maximise bonuses.
Yeah I was looking at the wrong one
People keep saying that the bonus goes to 35% with a the fleet command ship. I can't understand what permutation of 22.5% and +3% per level gives 35%?
Getting 4 sets of cruiser 5 to maximise bonuses is a lot of training... but no more than to get the bonuses in the first place I suppose. TBH I'd probably go for Caldari/Minmatar rather than Gallante... except that the Eos is such a sweet ship.
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Beam Rider
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Posted - 2007.06.16 19:11:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Beam Rider on 16/06/2007 19:12:32 I read all the posts and since I am new some of the concepts were not readily understood by me. But the bottom line, it seems, is that even with small gangs, and even with not so proficient pilots, the leaderships skills come in handy and make a difference. Also, correct me if I am wrong, Rev 2 is going to offer gang support for agent missions. Considering that, my questions is, should a person (a relatively new pilot with less than 1 mil skill points overall) learn leadership skills, or rather focus on a more personalized development? Thanks.
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SIR PRIME
Minmatar Equinox Eternal Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.16 20:59:00 -
[22]
Edited by: SIR PRIME on 16/06/2007 21:02:42 Ok best thread I've seen on gang boosting:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=209094
Well worth the read (ok several reads) to get a handle on the area.
The max possible on the combat side is 38.8125% but on the mining side 22.5% as there currently isn't a fleet command mining ship (oh how I wish!).
If you want to be invaluable to a 0.0 or mining gang they're very useful and in demand but not that "sexy".
Highly debateable that its worth it if you've just started as you get the most from the skills by using mindlinks and command ships - those are well outside the reach of a new character in terms of skill points even if you have friends to buy you the toys but a good goal on an alt or slightly more developed character. On the other hand if you never fly solo it may be worth you committing to the area from relatively early on as the ability to effect up to 250 other players is somewhat intoxicating. My gang booster alt is up close to 8 million sp in leadership alone and has quite a way to go but then I'm maxing the area. As much as he pleads to learn a different skill area I keep forcing him to persevere!
Edit: (cut and paste from that article) Max Bonus (T1, or Feild Command BC, Without Mindlink) 2% Base = 15% 3% Base = 22.5% With Mindlink 2% Base = 22.5% 3% Base = 33.75%
Max Bonus (Fleet Command BC, Without Mindlink) 2% Base = 17.25% 3% Base = 25.875% With Mindlink 2% Base = 25.875% 3% Base = 38.8125%
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Hohne
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.01 16:21:00 -
[23]
People wondering about the 25/38% the answer is that Armor/Shield/Mining links are 2% base bonus, the Skirmish/EW ones are 3% base.
The actualy command ship doesn't make 'that' much differency, though didn't stop me training it to 5 :o... The big difference maker is the implant, 50% to the bonuses (base and specialty)
Typically I cram on 6 links, 3 armor ones with the implant, shield resistance, mwd speed and the interdiction manouvers one (web/scram range).
With this fitting the ship is limited to pos hugging, all slots are devoted to running more gang links / getting more CPU / making sure the 6 links don't suck the cap dry running all the time. (This is an alt so I can go do the fighting with another char bonused up.)
When you fight a big fleet battle and you and many of your alliance mates just make it out in structure, you come to love the rep/resistance bonuses. And those ones that make it just that bit easier to catch / run away others.
The only thing I really hate is that people who become the squad / wing commanders under me don't get my bonuses (only their own)... Usually that means I give that role to carriers, but it's not always possible. Kick in the teeth really, train leadership V, become the lucky guy who doesn't get bonuses bar their own.
I can cram a 7th gang link on I think if I use 4 dread guristas co-processors :o or maybe some of the gallente navy ones... Add a few rigs and everyone wants you in their gangs.
The only downside is that a ship with no tank, no stabs / MWD and no weaponry isn't the best thing for roaming around in. :o
I think I've got 10 M SP in leadership now, + the command ships V ... :o And another one of my alts is the one that has the mining link / wing command. Cause it's so hard to find good wing commmanders when you need em :o
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.01 18:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: SIR PRIME Edited by: SIR PRIME on 16/06/2007 21:02:42 Ok best thread I've seen on gang boosting:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=209094
Well worth the read (ok several reads) to get a handle on the area.
The max possible on the combat side is 38.8125% but on the mining side 22.5% as there currently isn't a fleet command mining ship (oh how I wish!).
If you want to be invaluable to a 0.0 or mining gang they're very useful and in demand but not that "sexy".
Highly debateable that its worth it if you've just started as you get the most from the skills by using mindlinks and command ships - those are well outside the reach of a new character in terms of skill points even if you have friends to buy you the toys but a good goal on an alt or slightly more developed character. On the other hand if you never fly solo it may be worth you committing to the area from relatively early on as the ability to effect up to 250 other players is somewhat intoxicating. My gang booster alt is up close to 8 million sp in leadership alone and has quite a way to go but then I'm maxing the area. As much as he pleads to learn a different skill area I keep forcing him to persevere!
Edit: (cut and paste from that article) Max Bonus (T1, or Feild Command BC, Without Mindlink) 2% Base = 15% 3% Base = 22.5% With Mindlink 2% Base = 22.5% 3% Base = 33.75%
Max Bonus (Fleet Command BC, Without Mindlink) 2% Base = 17.25% 3% Base = 25.875% With Mindlink 2% Base = 25.875% 3% Base = 38.8125%
Excellent post - many thanks for this information.
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.01 19:51:00 -
[25]
On top of the maths in this thread, i'll tell you from experience, that a speed-fitted gang, containing ceptors, vagas, lachesises and huginns, all supported by a mindlinked skirmish claymore is damned near unstoppable. You're talking 80km scrambles + webs, and stupidly high speeds from the ceptors and vagas.
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MegabitOne
Caldari The Black Ops
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Posted - 2007.07.02 04:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Elmicker On top of the maths in this thread, i'll tell you from experience, that a speed-fitted gang, containing ceptors, vagas, lachesises and huginns, all supported by a mindlinked skirmish claymore is damned near unstoppable. You're talking 80km scrambles + webs, and stupidly high speeds from the ceptors and vagas.
Would you care to share which skills/ship/mods can get 80km web and 80km scram range? I'm wondering if it's even possible... --- I'm not as bad-ass as some of my corp mates, but I'll pwn you anyway!
-= In God we trust, all the others pay cash =- |
Hohne
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.02 07:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: MegabitOne
Originally by: Elmicker On top of the maths in this thread, i'll tell you from experience, that a speed-fitted gang, containing ceptors, vagas, lachesises and huginns, all supported by a mindlinked skirmish claymore is damned near unstoppable. You're talking 80km scrambles + webs, and stupidly high speeds from the ceptors and vagas.
Would you care to share which skills/ship/mods can get 80km web and 80km scram range? I'm wondering if it's even possible...
You would need a Huginn / Rapier for the web and Arazu / Lachesis for the scram. As well as a Domination Web + you get an additional 38.8% to the range from the ganglink.
I haven't worked out the details, but even with recon 4 / t2 web and only a 22.5% bonus I get 41km web. The domi web is another 50% range I think, and then the larger gang bonus, it seems do-able.
Skirmish warfare is one of the coolest because it actually affects abilities rather than just strength and chance.
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Imaos
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Posted - 2007.07.02 08:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hohne
Originally by: MegabitOne
Originally by: Elmicker On top of the maths in this thread, i'll tell you from experience, that a speed-fitted gang, containing ceptors, vagas, lachesises and huginns, all supported by a mindlinked skirmish claymore is damned near unstoppable. You're talking 80km scrambles + webs, and stupidly high speeds from the ceptors and vagas.
Would you care to share which skills/ship/mods can get 80km web and 80km scram range? I'm wondering if it's even possible...
You would need a Huginn / Rapier for the web and Arazu / Lachesis for the scram. As well as a Domination Web + you get an additional 38.8% to the range from the ganglink.
I haven't worked out the details, but even with recon 4 / t2 web and only a 22.5% bonus I get 41km web. The domi web is another 50% range I think, and then the larger gang bonus, it seems do-able.
Skirmish warfare is one of the coolest because it actually affects abilities rather than just strength and chance.
Arazu/Lachesis with Domination or Republic Fleet Scrambler is 60km range at Recon5. That increases to ~83km with full gang bonus.
Imaos
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.07.02 08:56:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 02/07/2007 08:59:42 On one of my alt I have trained armored, skirmish warfares, CS and all the jazz to the max. I plugged him an armored warfare specialist implant for a nice 50% bonus.
So that my alt is sitting at safe in Damnation, running all 6 skirmish/armored links non stop (need 3 Dread CPUs to fit all that though).
Basically, my other Absolution /single Centum A-type alt being buffed by such a specialist, is invincible in any lvl4 mission I encountered so far (and I am usually trying to spawn all the waves as fast as possible to kill the boss npc that triggers mission completion). Sadly I didn't have a diamond angel tag to try that angel ganza extra stage though... Although it's a pain to travel to all the BSs spawning 150 km afar. so I think I will have to try skirmish-focused setup to get 1km/s with an AB CS. this got to help with catching up with all the waves...
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Hohne
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.02 11:30:00 -
[30]
If you have good skills (Energy Management V / Sys OP V) You can run 6 gang links all the time in a damnation without rigs, just using T2 Co-Pro's / Cap Charger II / Cap Power Relays etc. For the 7th you need 4 dread guristas co-pros and I think some CCC rigs. :\
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