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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Foopadoo
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Posted - 2007.05.10 19:44:00 -
[121]
Originally by: LUKEC What we have here is bunch of armchair generals.
Get hit by 20 cap neut. carriers and your cap will stay at 0.
Because that is a totally realistic situation with 3 Titans and a dread fleet + support in system.
All you need is 60 motherships and 300 dreads plus 10 triple doomsday-tanked nanophoons to bump the titans, it's so simple!
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Nostic
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Posted - 2007.05.10 19:48:00 -
[122]
Originally by: LUKEC What we have here is bunch of armchair generals.
Get hit by 20 cap neut. carriers and your cap will stay at 0.
If you had read the OP, you would know this is not the case. Even if the Titan had just jumped in and used his DD so he was low on cap, he could recharge and jump out before the first neut cycles from the carriers were finished.
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Kagurazaka Asuna
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.10 19:49:00 -
[123]
Originally by: LUKEC What we have here is bunch of armchair generals.
Get hit by 20 cap neut. carriers and your cap will stay at 0.
Care to back this up at all? If anything, by the actual numbers and facts presented thus far, if anyone's armchair general'ing, it's you.
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Vensa Heckler
Clarf Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:09:00 -
[124]
tl;dr -
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law |
Slash Harnet
Minmatar Industrial Services INC
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:11:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Slash Harnet on 10/05/2007 20:08:31
Originally by: Bozse btw. anyone that can post the short version of the OP.
I will do my best so summarize the OP [I highly suggest reading the whole thing though]:
Originally by: Summary A Titans inital cost is well out valued by the benefits it affords. Once you have a Titan it is faster and safer to produce your own and inversely more difficult for your enemy to build one. Both of these are due to a Titans unique abilities. (Note: I believe the larger two abilities are being able to jump bridge freighters and capital bowling).
With multiple Titans on one side of a conflict sub-capital ships would be unable to survive. If sub-capitals are that easy to kill they will become useless in all but extremely unique roles or smaller corp/gang PvP use. Dreads are the most useful ships for destroying POS's so they will become the most used fleet ship. Carriers will be used as jumpable freighters and fighter support. As electronic warfare is useless on capitals combat would slip down the evolutionary line. Eve falls apart due to the overly simplified, and boring, combat.
With pricey mods, a Titan can fire a doomsday device and have more than enough cap to cyno out in less than 20 seconds.
An unstoppable and undefeatable gate camping system, especially when using multiple bubbles. This pic describes it pretty well. The only way around this situation is to have your own Titan to jump bridge into the system.
Multiple cyno ships + multiple titans = the new mine field This could be applied to defense and offense.
Proposed solution, reducing the Doomsday effective area to 50KM and increasing the cool down timer to 3 hours.
Proposed solution, increasing the fuel cost of activating the doomsday. For example, activating a Doomsday costs as much in isotopes as a single fighter (isk wise).
Proposed solution, remove the supercapital warp scramble immunity and provide them an permanent +12 warp core strength. Also, make bubbles do 11 points of scrambling.
Proposed solution, make it impossible (or nearly impossible) to fit a cloaking device on a capital ship.
Proposed solution, rebalance the gang bonuses provided by Titans.
Proposed solution, remove the remote doomsday.
Again, this summary doesn't do justice to the work that the OP took. If you have the time read the original.
signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior! |
Damares
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:16:00 -
[126]
thats an OTT nerf tbh...
youve changed a titan from an over 100bill destructive near unkillable monstrosity into a over 100bill command ship on steroids.
i agree some nerfs are needed, but not that far, the ewar immunity is fine imo, dictor bubbles stopping it should be fine, 100bill should be very hard to catch.
the doomsday needs nerfing, but not to a 50km radius... maybe a 100km radius, where it will still be effective against fleets, just more diffcult to use, the titans only real offensive capability shouldnt be changed into a simple get out of jail free card, (it is atm, but thats only part of it, it can cripple and entire fleet of BS)
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Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:23:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Damares the titans only real offensive capability
*snip* I see slots for capital weapons.
Forsch Defender of the empire
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Sugarphobia
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:45:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Forsch
Originally by: Damares the titans only real offensive capability
*snip* I see slots for capital weapons.
3x XL weapons do about as much damage as a battleship while having considerably worse tracking. The only reason XL weapons are useful at all are because of a Dreadnoughts Siege Module.
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:45:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Damares thats an OTT nerf tbh...
youve changed a titan from an over 100bill destructive near unkillable monstrosity into a over 100bill command ship on steroids.
i agree some nerfs are needed, but not that far, the ewar immunity is fine imo, dictor bubbles stopping it should be fine, 100bill should be very hard to catch.
the doomsday needs nerfing, but not to a 50km radius... maybe a 100km radius, where it will still be effective against fleets, just more diffcult to use, the titans only real offensive capability shouldnt be changed into a simple get out of jail free card, (it is atm, but thats only part of it, it can cripple and entire fleet of BS)
Its not nearly 100bil. Its more like 45 bil. I think that nerfing the officer smartbombs ability to pop all dictor bubbles that can touch a supercap would go a long way to helping them. I also think that the remote cyno should be changed so that it costs a lot more fuel (250mil at least) or that the titan can't carry enough fuel for more than 1 DD. I think that recon ships should be required for the remote cyno as cheap t1 throwaway frigs + titan at safe mean no possibility of loss. And I think that jumping should not be allowed 10 minutes after DDing.
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Dangerously Cheesey
Anqara Expeditions The OSS
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:54:00 -
[130]
Impressive post with well thought out arguments backed up by evidence - good work. I realize many people have put a lot of work into getting the titans currently in game but for the overall long term health of eve, I hope the devs take a long hard look at your suggestions.
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Damares
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Posted - 2007.05.10 21:23:00 -
[131]
Nerfs that i see as valid: a reduction in doomsday range increase in doomsday fuel reduction in cap recharge so titan cant get away so soon that the survivors are still recoiling from the lag. slight nerf to fleet bonus'
and tbh, 100bill i see as a valid price for it, mins are about what? 50bill, blue print, sovreinty in low sec, the materials and man power required to defend a POS building a titan, the effort and time to produce it, and the ability to keep its production mostly under wraps.
oh, and yeh, the turret slots on em are practicaly useless so doomsday is basicaly the only offensive capability.
the proposed nerfs are ok, i suppose, but all of them together make something out of a titan i dont really like, but it isnt upto me to decide, so i suppose well just wait and see what ccp does about it
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2007.05.10 21:26:00 -
[132]
Quick fix idea for titans.
The simple TITAN fix
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.05.10 21:38:00 -
[133]
Get rid of the doomsday!
Put in a POS-like forcefield.
The Titan will become a remote base to lauch strikes, reload, get new ships, etc. It will be a strategic weapon used to help deploying forces, and not a solopwn mobile. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
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Life reaper
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Posted - 2007.05.10 21:46:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Life reaper on 10/05/2007 21:42:43
Originally by: LUKEC What we have here is bunch of armchair generals.
Get hit by 20 cap neut. carriers and your cap will stay at 0.
Yeah, I am not gonna bother with this obvious troll, but even your own (BoB) armchair generals have commented on some of the points brought up by the OP (and agreed with them).
Also, read the OP, get hit by 20 cap neuts just means you'll cyno 8 seconds after getting locked and still be perfectly safe.
If that's perfectly fine with you why isn't there a 100B rig that makes my ship have 3 million armor, 80% resists across the board and +40 warp strength? Ohh that's right, because it's not balanced.
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Sigiryavrusu
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Posted - 2007.05.10 21:49:00 -
[135]
I won't lie.
My corp is older than virtually any other corp in the game. We're also the richest (I think) or at least one of the richest. Getting these kind of resources together took alot of logistical effort. We have also put alot of time into the game.
I don't care what anyone else says, but we have been the strongest, or one of the strongest, corps in the game for a long time. And in return for the effort and money we have invested as a group, we deserve to have a number of vessels which are practically invincible.
Devs, this person has put numbers and arguments together, and they seem to make sense. But we have put money in your pockets and paid your wages, and what matters more? Don't nerf the Titan, we rely on them. And we paid for them fair and square. |
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.05.10 21:51:00 -
[136]
Edited by: madaluap on 10/05/2007 21:47:53 Good post. Maybe doomsday devices should be removed completely. Maybe give titans such a bonus that there guns have 50% tracking of BS sized guns and deliver the same alpha of 10-30 bs. Basically it would mean that with a titan in your gang he would be able to gun down 5 bs/s not taking lag into account offcourse. Or basically push a dreadnaught over its tanking edge solo. For 100 billion isk thats fine. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Laeyo Mataseo
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Posted - 2007.05.10 21:58:00 -
[137]
a verry well writen post/s
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Get rid of the doomsday!
Put in a POS-like forcefield.
The Titan will become a remote base to lauch strikes, reload, get new ships, etc. It will be a strategic weapon used to help deploying forces, and not a solopwn mobile.
this is what i thought a titan was gona be as when i first hard about Titan's that they would be a mobile Station
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GeekWarrior
Gallente KAOS. KA0S Theory
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Posted - 2007.05.10 21:59:00 -
[138]
This is why the Official EVE Wiki needs to be released ASAP.
Good work. ----------------------------- EVE Addict, creator of the EVE Online Forms Greasemonkey Script \o/ |
Smelly Kelly
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Posted - 2007.05.10 22:03:00 -
[139]
How much IRL money (probably earned from timecodes somehow or another) were you paid to write up this report?
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Dangerously Cheesey
Anqara Expeditions The OSS
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Posted - 2007.05.10 22:05:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Sigiryavrusu I won't lie.
My corp is older than virtually any other corp in the game. We're also the richest (I think) or at least one of the richest. Getting these kind of resources together took alot of logistical effort. We have also put alot of time into the game.
I don't care what anyone else says, but we have been the strongest, or one of the strongest, corps in the game for a long time. And in return for the effort and money we have invested as a group, we deserve to have a number of vessels which are practically invincible.
Devs, this person has put numbers and arguments together, and they seem to make sense. But we have put money in your pockets and paid your wages, and what matters more? Don't nerf the Titan, we rely on them. And we paid for them fair and square.
So your argument is that titans cost a lot of isk so they should be invincible? That doesn't make any sense. Neither does your claim that you "rely on them". The titan owning alliances all did just fine before they got their Titan.
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Marovinchian
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.10 22:05:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Marovinchian on 10/05/2007 22:02:08 Too OP: LOL @ your lack of a RL
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The MapMaker
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Posted - 2007.05.10 22:13:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Marovinchian Edited by: Marovinchian on 10/05/2007 22:02:08 Too OP: LOL @ your lack of a RL
Haha yeah, seriously Bane get a life you dork
anyway back to my alliance's five hour friday night gatecamp pwwnin some noobz
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James 315
Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.10 22:39:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Marovinchian Too OP: LOL @ your lack of a RL
...And how many hours did you spend mining and hauling to build those titans he wrote about?
Yes, I pwned you. And yes, I know it hurts.
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Banhammer
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Posted - 2007.05.10 22:47:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Banhammer on 10/05/2007 22:43:44 oops, wrong char - delete this post please
-- Banhammer EVE Stratics - We Are Massively Multiplayer |
Evangeline Dol'Amazi
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Posted - 2007.05.10 22:49:00 -
[145]
Great post!
I truly do hope the developers read and take to heart your suggestions!
Thanks again for a great post.
Eve.
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Technim Gekat
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.10 22:54:00 -
[146]
I guess I was wrong at FanFest. The Titan's not just a giant space e-***** after all (to badly mangle the quote from the devs, only to see it word-filtered anyway); it's actually quite cost-effective.
(And just because it still bugs me, I hated that term the moment I used it, but I couldn't come up with a better way to imply risk vs. reward within two seconds.)
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.05.10 23:25:00 -
[147]
I've never seen a Titan. Anyone care to address how this all affects Empire dwellers, since Titans can't go there at all? Are they going to lead to an increase in the price of faction gear to Empire mission runners or something like that?
If not, then I don't see how any Titan imbalance is going to ruin EVE, since most EVE players never go where Titans tread. Certainly it may ruin fleet combat, but most EVE players never do fleet combat.
CCP knows who butters their bread, I am sure this will get the attention it deserves.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Sugarphobia
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Posted - 2007.05.10 23:29:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel I've never seen a Titan. Anyone care to address how this all affects Empire dwellers, since Titans can't go there at all? Are they going to lead to an increase in the price of faction gear to Empire mission runners or something like that?
If not, then I don't see how any Titan imbalance is going to ruin EVE, since most EVE players never go where Titans tread. Certainly it may ruin fleet combat, but most EVE players never do fleet combat.
CCP knows who butters their bread, I am sure this will get the attention it deserves.
If you live in empire, any ship that isn't a Raven/mining barge shouldn't be of much concern to you. But seriously, Titans are the death knell of 0.0 warfare right now. It may not matter to the empire traders, but in the game of 0.0 politics they are almost a constant discussion.
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Adamason
Caldari Gemini Sun
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Posted - 2007.05.10 23:32:00 -
[149]
I more or less agree with everything in this post, I'm not, nor have I ever been in goonfleet, goonswarm, or been part of the rapetrain before.
Why does it take a complete threadnoughting in order to get CCP to acknowledge anything? |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.05.10 23:33:00 -
[150]
Well that's what I'm asking. Does it matter to Empire dwellers? Will something like a monopoly on deadspace gear emerge, where the alliance who manages to blob the most Titans controls everything, which in turn could affect prices to Empire and low-sec dwellers and thus, affect a majority of the EVE player base?
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
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