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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Ametyst
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Posted - 2007.05.12 08:14:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Graegar Edited by: Graegar on 12/05/2007 07:41:47
Originally by: FoeHammur Dominix
Turret Slot Turret Slot Turret Slot Turret Slot Turret Slot Turret Slot
Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger
Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay
Rigs : Capacitor Control Circuit II \ Capacitor Control Circuit II \ Capacitor Control Circuit I \
5742 shield, 6.76/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/19/39/59 7763 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/35/35/10 6250.0 cap, +8054.72/s, -0.0/s 150.0 m/s 0.0 DPS
OMG OVERPOWERED!
lol, you are comparing a Dominix that uses guns/drones.... to a Titan that is IMMUNE to EWAR and has a DOOMSDAY? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Doomsday versus any capital ship is kinda useless. Get a clue.
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Damares
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Posted - 2007.05.12 08:28:00 -
[242]
this hole thread is revolving around the doomsday, where as a titan is far more useful than just that, the jump bridge is sooo useful, the fleet bonus' are insane, the doomsday can smash any blob, the problem isnt just catching it, but actualy getting to it, most situations here are dependant on the titan jumping in and firing his doomsday, which he doesnt have to do, just having a friendly titan around gives your forces a MASSIVE advantage, which is fair considering its cost, but, the massive advantage might just have gone a little to far
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Loviaetar
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Posted - 2007.05.12 09:06:00 -
[243]
WOW
I just tried the 14 day free trial and am pretty sure I will buy. I really just need an alliance. . . but I digress. I have been pouring over the forums and it is a little discouraging to see that there are such major imbalances in this game.
How as a new player will I get into a Titan. Heak how would I train for one?
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Ha'Uler
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Posted - 2007.05.12 09:18:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Ametyst Doomsday versus any capital ship is kinda useless. Get a clue.
If you think that killing all the capital's support ships and fighters is useless...
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Reiun
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.12 09:34:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Conmen ...If i have a rowboat and a massive battleship comes in there is no way in hell that thing wont dominate me i don care how many rowboats you throw at it. Jesus just stop your whining and let the devs deal with their crap.
Sorry if this is super offensive, but tell that to the fine crew of the USS Cole...
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Dray
Caldari Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.05.12 10:00:00 -
[246]
Are titans broken, from a personal perspective I dont know, never encountered one in pvp, but what I do know is that the two that have been destroyed were done so while logged, one because he miscalculated his aggro timer, allegedly, the other was a well executed plan.
This isnt a dig at BoB's tactic being lame because I dont think it is, it's merely the simple fact that this is the best way to drop a titan, but it says a lot about the titans that one of the premier pvp alliances realises this is the best way to take one out.
Answers a whole lot of questions right there tbh.
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Lonectzn
Pelennor Swarm R i s e
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Posted - 2007.05.12 10:07:00 -
[247]
This is a quite brilliant summary the main issues.
To those focusing on his alliance... I'd point out that the coalition has titans also.
People would do well to read this. I have to agree that the state of titans leads to the devolution of combat in player-controlled space. ----------------- Sig mod-whacked
=/ Have had that signature for well over two years. 26,736 bytes. R.I.P Garfield.
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Kyodai Koga
Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.12 15:04:00 -
[248]
Come on mods, this thread deserves a sticky as much as the nanoships did.
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Karunel
Princeps Corp YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.05.12 16:31:00 -
[249]
This thread is made of win. Simply amazing, the effort you've put there, and I agree with most of your points.
10/10 & standing ovation. ____
Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
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Fry Star
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Posted - 2007.05.12 18:48:00 -
[250]
So what do people think about the points raised in http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=464
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.12 20:00:00 -
[251]
Originally by: LUKEC There was also RA(or maybe UNL or even AAA, don't remember) ghetto nyx that died in RIT area in feyth. It didn't lag out nor desync, it was just cap nuked(or maybe exit cyno killed :D ) + bumped & dreaded.
EDIT: was RA nyx, piloted by greenhalf
The problem here is that motherships and titans are not really compareable due to one issue: MOMs do their "damage" over time. They need to stay on the battlefield and be able to tank damage. Titans just need to be on the battlefield for a few seconds to fire their doomsday and then can jump out again.
(Thats assuming the mothership and titan does not stay at a pos and delegate fighters/remote doomsday.)
Either way, this means that unlike motherships titans can simply fit all their meds & lows with cap recharge modules. Which results in a much much higher cap recharge. Which makes cap nuke tactics against them next to impossible.
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Dibujante
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.12 20:59:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: LUKEC There was also RA(or maybe UNL or even AAA, don't remember) ghetto nyx that died in RIT area in feyth. It didn't lag out nor desync, it was just cap nuked(or maybe exit cyno killed :D ) + bumped & dreaded.
EDIT: was RA nyx, piloted by greenhalf
The problem here is that motherships and titans are not really compareable due to one issue: MOMs do their "damage" over time. They need to stay on the battlefield and be able to tank damage. Titans just need to be on the battlefield for a few seconds to fire their doomsday and then can jump out again.
(Thats assuming the mothership and titan does not stay at a pos and delegate fighters/remote doomsday.)
Either way, this means that unlike motherships titans can simply fit all their meds & lows with cap recharge modules. Which results in a much much higher cap recharge. Which makes cap nuke tactics against them next to impossible.
There is also the issue that titans generally aren't used for anything but their doomsday. Motherships/Carriers have a useful role as logistics ships, meaning that the alliance that commits them into a firefight is making good use of them. A Titan, however, does its job just as well (if not better) sitting at a POS. Naturally, Motherships will get taken out, because they, unlike Titans, currently have a place on the battlefield. A Titan is currently not much more than a glorifed POS module.
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HankMurphy
Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e
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Posted - 2007.05.12 22:51:00 -
[253]
very nicely written OP. (a little on the long side but probly intentional if you went through several drafts )
and props to the ppl who managed to keep politics out of a mechanical discussion.
I completely disagree w/ the OP, the general misconception that titans are offensively 'overpowered' and the idea they are defensively 'invincible')
now let me explain. I think there are two critical questions we have to address first:
--------------- critical question #1: how powerful is too powerful when you are discussing a 50-150 billion isk ship?
how much raw power is appropriate???
well, i think ccp answered that one pretty well... powerful enough to clear a grid square of all but the most tanked non capital ships. (capital ships dont die from one or two shots, cause the weapon is not meant to be against them)
how is this offensive ability kept in check? ability is not quickly reproduced (timer makes you wait). i think a nice addition would be to remove remote DD'ing. I dont think it will change anything.. but it does make sense.
critical question #2: exactly what size, class and extent of an effort should be invested by an opponent that wants to take one of these down?
frankly, something to the tune of a cap fleet with super cap presence (probly a mom or two, several carriers and decent dread support...). sounds like common sense right? basically a big capital ship yarn ball. you have to put them on the line, fit them specifically to down the super capital and you have to have a good plan/trap.
its what took down RA's mothership. its what will have to be used to take down any super capital ship that is still logged into the game.
for all the ppl that complain about supercaps few have truely invested in trying to take them down w/ an appropiate force. most are upset they cant do it w/ battleships/frigs and a couple carriers.
---------------------------------
in these days of blob warfare there is little out there more overpowered than a fleet large enough to bring even a node to its knees!
# of pilots over ship class, fittings and actual combat strategy. the definition of 'the blob' Its a terrible thing to face and at its worst, it doesn't matter what ships are coming, just the # of them.
--> now they make an anti blob weapon! (yay) though to be effective it must be as resilient as waves upon waves of ships and a weapon almost as terrible as a node crash
should it be sane to consider that X hundred pilots cannot take out a titan? is that not overpowered?!? should a massive number of pilots not be able to kill one? Thats what we are asking here right?
the short answer is no, not really.... continued
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HankMurphy
Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e
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Posted - 2007.05.12 22:51:00 -
[254]
I think it would be more appropriate to ask: Should it matter how many pilots you can bring if you cant bring the ship class and pilot combat ability to back it up?
we hear lots of ppl from the newer end of the game ranks saying "titans are no fun, what can a new person do against it" and the same has been said by smaller or newer entities in space. "its not fair", "overpowered" "why does ccp allow them?"
and the same answer resounds every time (as it should): Titans fill a critical role vs blobs.
Eve is not a game of 'the most skill points wins'. Not even close, and it never should be. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, Eve should never be a game purely based on 'whoever gets the most pilots to show up wins'.
Every day the "quality vs quantity" is played out on the battlefield. They are each extremes on the spectrum and our reality is in the middle grey area.. While some situations it may seem like the game leans towards one side or the other, i think we have something that can be considered balance.
Super caps are there for those of us that coordinate, and work hard. So one CAN stand against waves and waves of enemy peons. Quality can overcome sheer quantity (as it should be able to). When done right, a more experienced and better equipped force CAN stand against hundreds of ppl that are there to do little more than fit a warp scram and add a drop to the bucket of node lag.
As someone said earlier in this thread, rarely is a ship 'just right' on the first draft. I am sure CCP will revisit titans.... and I'm sure there will be changes! But I think you will see changes along the lines of stacking nerfs, tweaks to 'rate of /whatever' , basic adjustment to #'s.
As for the concept of titans, their purpose and overall abilities (both offensively and defensively) I think CCP hit the nail on the head. --------------------------------------------- Want to own one? get a few dozen ppl, several dozen billion isk, a competent pilot and bust your arses for a couple months to handle the logistics side. THEN defend the yard its growing in till its done.
Want to kill one? You have to show up w/ the right stuff, with a game plan, with a trap. You have to work for your meal and you have to put as much on the line as the opponent is. Its alot more than asking for the nerfbat. It means hard work, planning, skill and lots and lots and lots of your own cap ships
pos warfare is not fun & it is not fair blob warfare is not fair the antiblob weapon (the titan) is not fair and should any of this be suprising?? IT'S WAR. WAR IS NOT FAIR. ADAPT OR DIE.
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Bein Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.12 23:15:00 -
[255]
Did you even read a single word of what I wrote?
Originally by: HankMurphy
critical question #1: how powerful is too powerful when you are discussing a 50-150 billion isk ship?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518418&page=1#4 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518418&page=5#136
Originally by: HankMurphy
critical question #2: exactly what size, class and extent of an effort should be invested by an opponent that wants to take one of these down?
frankly, something to the tune of a cap fleet with super cap presence (probly a mom or two, several carriers and decent dread support...). sounds like common sense right? basically a big capital ship yarn ball. you have to put them on the line, fit them specifically to down the super capital and you have to have a good plan/trap.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518418&page=1#5 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518418&page=7#195
Originally by: HankMurphy
in these days of blob warfare there is little out there more overpowered than a fleet large enough to bring even a node to its knees!
# of pilots over ship class, fittings and actual combat strategy. the definition of 'the blob' Its a terrible thing to face and at its worst, it doesn't matter what ships are coming, just the # of them.
--> now they make an anti blob weapon! (yay) though to be effective it must be as resilient as waves upon waves of ships and a weapon almost as terrible as a node crash
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518418&page=1#27 |
Ametyst
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Posted - 2007.05.13 00:50:00 -
[256]
Like I said ealier. You paid this ship 50-100 bil, expect a 50-100bil effect on your fleet. Like everyone with implants. Just like a comparision between a BS fleet versus a cruiser fleet. Expect the 90M difference in the field.
And don't worry new players, you still got your place in this world. You don't have to fight that war, or to ever see one of the titans. You can do "low skill piratery", go check the video section.
And for this discussion, let's take one of Bob member's word: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518813&page=15#429
Quote:
As for the excuses so often presented:
The number of super-capitals have until recently been approximately equal for the two parties (Titan numbers only became different last week, and is still only 4-3). If they're game-destroying, they would be so to both parties. NO VALID EXCUSES!
The game mechanics on attacking POS' and stations are completely equal for the two parties, and the coalition have (had?) many more dreads than the alliance. NO VALID EXCUSES!
The pilot numbers was overwhelmingly on the coalitions side at the start of the conflict (don't start me on participation level, that's YOUR problem, not mine!). NO VALID EXCUSES!
Lag affects everyone equally (I had 10+ MINUTES lag in F-TE1T). NO VALID EXCUSES!
Put all the blame, excuses, whine, tinfoil-hattery etc. aside, and start bringing ships instead!!
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HankMurphy
Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e
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Posted - 2007.05.13 01:06:00 -
[257]
Edited by: HankMurphy on 13/05/2007 01:05:49 i went back through those points in your posts to see if i missed anything the first time i read it....(i didn't)
-first: the idea that cost does not justify balance.
this is true! i never argued that the ship cost is reason enough for its exsistence. I just posed the question of how powerful an uber expensive ship like this should be? (given it holds a place in the game)
so the question becomes: What is it's place in the game? Where is the balance? What is the purpose? Read my post where i discuss blob warfare. You are of the opinion that the very idea of it being a anti-blob weapon is a load of malarkey "Merely a Myth" and I simply disagree.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you have to admit it is rather short sighted to dismiss the purpose of titan's role because you personally don't 'believe' that it's role (anti blob) is valid! As a pilot on the receiving end of blob warfare i know its role to be more than mythical.
You certainly didn't write a muli-paged thesis on titans based on the assumption that they aren't anti-blob weapons did you? or did you... , i guess you did. I guess if one were to pose that it is valid, that kinda negates your argument doesn't it? moving on....
The rest of the argument seems to revolve around titans being the epitome of cap ship warfare, and that cap ship warfare is flawed? We are doomed to an infinite escalation to the point cap ships will be the be all and end all of regional control struggles.
Your not going to get any arguments from me there tbfh. Not only is cap ship warfare flawed, the system it revolves around 'pos warfare' is very flawed. But if we want to argue the finer points of pos warfare, thats another discussion entirely. Not grounds for a titan nerf.
So, lets go back to the titan itself a bit. We get into a discussion of immune to EW. The very reason for this is so engagements against the super capital will have to be something above and beyond throwing a huge mass of scramming/damping frigs and cruisers at it.
You talk about endless baiting etc being the only means to taking one down. How is that an argument? Your right! No one suggested there should be an easy way to tackle it, thats the point. With EW immune you have to bait/trap it and get those cap ships in close enough to destroy its capacitor.
I guess I just view your agument as based on the belief it has no valid role. I contest that there is a valid role.
Everything else seems to be complaints centered in the game in 0.0 is ever escallating away from standard gangs and becoming a game purely of cap ships. Well, that is where the game is headed. If we dont like it then we can hope ccp steers the game a different direction and fix pos warfare. But its a far FAR cry from being a solid reason to nerf titans!
Super capitals must be engaged by masses and masses of capital ships. This is why EW immune is there, its a matter of tackling its cap, not its warp drive.
Just because you dont like the way the game is heading isn't grounds to nerf a ship. Just because you believe anti-blob is a myth isn't reason to nerf titans.
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Comdrinker
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Posted - 2007.05.13 02:46:00 -
[258]
some people really have too much time on their hands.
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Jacob Holland
Gallente FIRMA
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Posted - 2007.05.13 09:23:00 -
[259]
Having read the entire OP my motivation to read the other eight pages of posts has I'm afraid diminished... To the OP: You'll have your own card after this A very well put together dissection of the issues and some well thought out solutions to the problems.
On the subject of cost justifying power: If that is the case then it should take more than a Neut Domi to take down 80 billion ISKs worth of ship. What am I talking about? Tyraxx' Impoc. The price of ships such as the Impoc, the Fedathron (and to a lesser degree the State Raven and Tribepest) should justify them being unkillable solopwnmobiles, in fact they should be able to solo tackle and kill a Titan because they're in the same price range and dedicated combat ships where the Titan gets gang leadership bonuses and corp and ship arrays.
Patently this would be ludicrous. The point of ships like the Fedathron and Impoc is that they're significantly better than others in their class and that their uniqueness bears a cache which just makes them extra cool.
As I read through the OP a thought occurred to me, perhaps the way forward is to change what doomsday devices are for: At present they're vast smartbombs, what if that were changed? Perhaps make a Doomsday an experimental Siege Module - it gives the damage bonus without the tracking penalty, the EWar immunity with a significantly lower speed penalty and the tanking bonus... And if you want to overload it you can vent the excess energy in the form of a huge gridwide smartbomb (making it actually gridwide would prevent Doomsday sniping) but doing so is a painful proposition. By using the same UI as Heat to overload and therefore fire the Doomsday the device could have a fuel cost in the same way as a Siege Module. By making the "supersmartbomb" a function of the Overload you could make it a last ditch effort. By making the overload do structure damage to the titan itself you limit its use. Who is going to want to use their DDD on twenty Interceptors if it means sitting somewhere for a dozen or more hours with your mids full of hull reps? and you'd have to be online and therefore "vulnerable" while you did so... --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Mogrin
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.13 09:42:00 -
[260]
Furthermore, how do you kill this fleet when theres a titan hanging out right outside the pos? Battleships? BOOM gone. Support fleet? BOOM gone. You pretty much can't do anything but watch your POS fall. gg
RYU vs KEN READY.. FIGHT! CALCULATING SKILLPOINTS.. RYU WINS! _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion |
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Mogrin
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.13 09:49:00 -
[261]
Quote: this is true! i never argued that the ship cost is reason enough for its exsistence. I just posed the question of how powerful an uber expensive ship like this should be? (given it holds a place in the game)
I think a better way to make a game would be to make balanced ships first THEN assign a pricetag, instead of making overpowered ships then attempting to justify their existance by fact that they are expensive. This game is becoming capital ships online and the only justification is that "it costs alot". LAME
You'll know when a titan is balanced when they start getting destroyed when they're actually being piloted. As carefree and reckless as these titan pilots are you KNOW they are not balanced. They fly around without support fleets whenever they GD please.
I think you should have to keep them alive through teamwork, with an actual support fleet. Screw their ewar immunity, screw their pricetag. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. At what price point does that rule no longer apply? _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.13 10:06:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Mogrin Furthermore, how do you kill this fleet when theres a titan hanging out right outside the pos? Battleships? BOOM gone. Support fleet? BOOM gone. You pretty much can't do anything but watch your POS fall. gg
RYU vs KEN READY.. FIGHT! CALCULATING SKILLPOINTS.. RYU WINS!
I think you're supposed to bring more capships and ambush them while they're sitting ans sieging?
I wouldn't bring 10 frigates to fight 10 battleships either, so it applies to capital ships too. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Lonectzn
Pelennor Swarm R i s e
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Posted - 2007.05.13 10:07:00 -
[263]
Hank the ship should be killable. Not invulnerable once built if flown right. Not completely revolutionalising fleet combat. Not turning any kind of fight into a have/have not situation.
In the situation now, there is simply no space for anything below capitals in a fight that includes at least two titans. Even if you're sitting in a pos, imagine this: titan comes in, bowls your bs and a bunch of friends out, then remote activates cyno on a ship next to the shield (has to be remote - he'll be further than 250 by time it activates). You were sitting - in your damn ships, not out of them - and now you just got dd'd while previously happily in a pos. And the reason you were in the pos? You couldn't leave because you would be dd'd wherever you went. You are safe neither in nor outside the shield.
Simply justifying it based on cost is saying that three motherships should do equal damage, being an equal investment. There is nothing stopping the construction of more titans, and their death rate is expected to be low or none now that people know how to use them. As the number of titans grows the effect becomes more pronounced. The devolution of fleet combat is the nullification of the subcapital class.
You're thinking, and a lot are thinking, too much in the frame of reference of the war. The second one of you get bowled out of a pos or dd'd, I guarantee you will not think so greatly of the titan. I've seen bob bowling many times over space of a couple hours, just to try knock single ships out. It's fair enough they do it since they've been told it is legal. But I don't see it as being good for the game when the very purpose of pos fields can be negated and the total nullification of subcapital classes in fleet combat can be done without any risk whatsoever to those possessing it.
Basically, where is the comeback? Where's the response? Everything in EVE is meant to have a counter, and a particular use. Dreads shoot towers and other dreads, but have to go in siege. Carriers have great fighters for general use but have their own drawbacks. Titans, are useful in any and all situations, nullifying a limitless number of ships at a time without incurring any risk or drawbacks whatsoever. ----------------- Sig mod-whacked
=/ Have had that signature for well over two years. 26,736 bytes. R.I.P Garfield.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.13 10:50:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Ling Xiao I think you're supposed to bring more capships and ambush them while they're sitting ans sieging?
I wouldn't bring 10 frigates to fight 10 battleships either, so it applies to capital ships too.
But would you bring 7 battleships, 8 cruisers and 10 frigates?
One of the core aspects of eve is that you do not need to have 30 mil SP and be in ship X to be useful on a battlefield. The current capital ship mechanics and the titan doomsday go against this core aspect.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.13 12:19:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Mogrin Furthermore, how do you kill this fleet when theres a titan hanging out right outside the pos? Battleships? BOOM gone. Support fleet? BOOM gone. You pretty much can't do anything but watch your POS fall. gg
RYU vs KEN READY.. FIGHT! CALCULATING SKILLPOINTS.. RYU WINS!
Call 1-888-RAlogin?
-------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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Mogrin
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.13 16:25:00 -
[266]
Originally by: LUKEC
Originally by: Mogrin Furthermore, how do you kill this fleet when theres a titan hanging out right outside the pos? Battleships? BOOM gone. Support fleet? BOOM gone. You pretty much can't do anything but watch your POS fall. gg
RYU vs KEN READY.. FIGHT! CALCULATING SKILLPOINTS.. RYU WINS!
Call 1-888-RAlogin?
Exactly. Devolve fleet combat to Capital Ships Online. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Kalie Erry
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Posted - 2007.05.13 17:56:00 -
[267]
Hey, let Titans proliferate... train for nothing but capital ships. After all, you guys said BoB uses lots of T2 ships.
p.s. BoB, you guys should stick with your self-imposed forum ban.
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.13 17:56:00 -
[268]
Edited by: Ling Xiao on 13/05/2007 17:55:41 You've always needed to bring capital ships to defeat capital ships, this is not a new development.
People seem to be implying that capitals should not be needed to hold territory. Those people perhaps should have spoken up before Dreadnaughts were introduced into the game. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Wild Rho
Amarr GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.05.13 19:09:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Ling Xiao Edited by: Ling Xiao on 13/05/2007 17:55:41 You've always needed to bring capital ships to defeat capital ships, this is not a new development.
People seem to be implying that capitals should not be needed to hold territory. Those people perhaps should have spoken up before Dreadnaughts were introduced into the game.
Some of us did but at the time it seemed like the costs and logistics involved with the construction of capital ships would be a sufficient limiting factor that we wouldn't get capital blobs (there weren't so many billionaires back then as there are now), not to mention capital ship warfare was a totally new concept and no one really knew how it would develop later on.
But now we have the current situation and it does need to be addressed one way or another.
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Nicholai Thomasovich
Caldari Nex Constructi
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Posted - 2007.05.13 19:19:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Jacob Holland <snip> On the subject of cost justifying power: If that is the case then it should take more than a Neut Domi to take down 80 billion ISKs worth of ship. What am I talking about? Tyraxx' Impoc. The price of ships such as the Impoc, the Fedathron (and to a lesser degree the State Raven and Tribepest) should justify them being unkillable solopwnmobiles, in fact they should be able to solo tackle and kill a Titan because they're in the same price range and dedicated combat ships where the Titan gets gang leadership bonuses and corp and ship arrays.
Patently this would be ludicrous. The point of ships like the Fedathron and Impoc is that they're significantly better than others in their class and that their uniqueness bears a cache which just makes them extra cool.<snip>
You're not comparing apples to apples here. Faction ships are valuable for one reason: Firstly because you can only get them through very specific means, and most people don't have the patience for that. Are Impocs really 6 times better than a regular Apoc? No. They're a luxury item, with little to no value for the price paid. Doesn't mean I don't want a few, though.
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