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Ramukan
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.05.01 20:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
i cant find a way to do this so if it's already a thing simply point out how to do it for me please, otherwise:
I would like to be able to filter out corporation and/or alliance members from local, this would allow me to make my local page much smaller when im doing things where enemies might be a problem but so many friendlies are around i feel the need to have local as big as possible on my screen, normally covering from bottom to top. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5473
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Posted - 2017.05.01 20:37:38 -
[2] - Quote
No, you cannot make your 100% free intel tool considerably more powerful. |
Ramukan
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.05.01 20:58:08 -
[3] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:No, you cannot make your 100% free intel tool considerably more powerful.
I want to it to be both more functional and give me better view of the space vistas CCP worked so hard to create. |
Tessa Sage
Legion of the Wicked Way Advent of Fate
6
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Posted - 2017.05.01 21:25:42 -
[4] - Quote
I'm not sure of the difference, when you see not a soul in local there is a tendency to not even open Dscan. For example, friendly MTUs are often - if unattended - where neuts in the previous session did safe log or otherwise insta-bookmarked with their combat scanners. You may be adjacent to impending doom, whether it's them logging in afresh, or jumping into system with ridiculously fast tackler.
If your reaction time is 0.4 seconds (user), your UI interaction 1 or 2 seconds (remote), and the ship align to ready a warp out for any ship above destroyer is 8 seconds or worse, you are locked up and scrammed my friend. If you're running a site where targeting strength is key, you lose ISK fitting a cloak. Many considerations... |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5473
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Posted - 2017.05.01 21:27:42 -
[5] - Quote
Ramukan wrote:Danika Princip wrote:No, you cannot make your 100% free intel tool considerably more powerful. I want to it to be both more functional and give me better view of the space vistas CCP worked so hard to create.
No, you're asking for instant notification of anyone not blue entering local. Dress it up however you want, but that's the gist of it. |
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3909
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Posted - 2017.05.01 21:49:09 -
[6] - Quote
Nope. Its not meant to be an intel tool. We should do the opposite and take out everyone but corp/fleet/alliance.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Cade Windstalker
1501
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Posted - 2017.05.02 03:03:55 -
[7] - Quote
Been asked, repeatedly. Devs even answered, IIRC at fanfest a year or two ago.
No.
Local was never meant as an Intel tool and while CCP aren't happy with its current state that's what it is and they're not about to make it a *better* intel tool. |
Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
78
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Posted - 2017.05.02 12:29:21 -
[8] - Quote
Could it be any easier an intel tool than now?
Of course a little buzzer that goes off if any hostiles are within 2 systems, and a loud Klaxon, with auto align and warp when in system, would be nice, and if the bot posted goading messages -once safe in your pos -in local even better!
I hope you realise this is deeply sarcastic, the fact this is almost all achievable (almost not quite all, legally) with existing tools isn't silly at all is it?
Local is one day going to be significantly changed, It is hard for CCP to do it without much screaming wailing and stamping of feet, and the =ă+ teddies flying out of the pram will be quite a serious health risk.
And your suggestion is make it easier?
Good luck with that. |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
25
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Posted - 2017.05.02 13:43:31 -
[9] - Quote
+1
Whats the harm? Everyone gets the feature. So whats the harm? Besides this functionality also leaves room for error. What if your contacts is not up to date? Whoops, someone is in system that you filtered that is potentially not a friendly anymore.
Some people are stuck in the past like the guy from Goonwaffe and Cade Windstalker. Its people like them that are the issue why EVE online is stagnating. They say no to everything for no reason other than "Its always been like that, deal with it". |
SupaL33tH4x0r Regime
Mariposa Mining Association Intrepid Crossing
3
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Posted - 2017.05.02 13:51:34 -
[10] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Been asked, repeatedly. Devs even answered, IIRC at fanfest a year or two ago.
No.
Local was never meant as an Intel tool and while CCP aren't happy with its current state that's what it is and they're not about to make it a *better* intel tool.
CCP as said know to a lot of things and yet we have some of those now. |
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3909
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Posted - 2017.05.02 15:41:03 -
[11] - Quote
@ manus, It makes it too easy to avoid pvp (everyone who is not friendly is hostile). That is most definitely a bad thing.
The game has been stagnating because the barrier for pvp has been getting higher. Not only did this alienate the core playerbase (pvp players) but also is boring players out of the game. The 'stagnation' started when wardecs were nerfed.
Its precisely ideas like this that are killing the game.
Just take yourself as an example. You didn't stick around before. You wont stick around now. The players that do stick around are pvp players.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Now Life
The Scope Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2017.05.02 15:46:15 -
[12] - Quote
Local chat Some see it as intel, others see it as local chat. Depends on who you ask if no one is in a sytem but you , no one will know you're there = no intel and you ar stil in local chat Intel = Active player action coming into a system and see that there are anomalies where you can immediately warp to is free intel (no active player action) Dotlan is free intel |
perseus skye
Republic University Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2017.05.02 15:49:01 -
[13] - Quote
Not everybody that plays eve is a pvp player ,some are explorers and some industrialists as in the Npeit used to ask you about what style you want to be etc
This idea is bad though about removing local as wormhole is about as risk averse place as I have ever seen but not everybody wants to pvp in eve neither should we attempt to drive them out .
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Old Pervert
Perkone Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2017.05.02 16:24:53 -
[14] - Quote
perseus skye wrote:Not everybody that plays eve is a pvp player ,some are explorers and some industrialists as in the Npeit used to ask you about what style you want to be etc
This idea is bad though about removing local as wormhole is about as risk averse place as I have ever seen but not everybody wants to pvp in eve neither should we attempt to drive them out .
And yet everyone plays the same game, Eve, where it has been stated time and again that nowhere is safe. Not even highsec. You have the right to have your ship blown up any absolutely any time.
Those who are indy or explorers have magical things called cloaking devices. They're great for avoiding PVP. If you STILL get caught.. well.. good. That's the game working as intended. |
B'ron Jan Escobar
Foxtrot Unicorn. Just let it happen
4
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Posted - 2017.05.02 17:34:05 -
[15] - Quote
The Local Chat is a nice way to Communicate with People around you. In High Sec, it's a nice way to know new People. Also it is "Misused" as Intel in Lowsec and Null Sec, that's right. IN WH-Space there is no Local, or at least without a List who is in there. The Argument for that, is that in WH-Space there are no "Beacons" to which the Chat-system connects. (Nice Lore Idea!!!)
Why this Explanation? Simple: Your Idea to "Filter" who is in System exists: It's Called Player-Created-Channels, and Everyone can Create a Channel for People he needs. Being able to "filter" further is no really useful Addition to the Game, despite maybe for Intel Purposes.
But that's the point: Local Chat is, was and would never be an Intel tool wanted by CCP, as said before. So a Function that improves that unwanted Purpose, is even more useless from the Perspective that CCP defends.
Or in Other words: If you want to Filter who is with you in System, you have to do it with the Options given by the game, and don't ask for more. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5481
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Posted - 2017.05.02 18:08:16 -
[16] - Quote
manus wrote:+1
Whats the harm? Everyone gets the feature. So whats the harm? Besides this functionality also leaves room for error. What if your contacts is not up to date? Whoops, someone is in system that you filtered that is potentially not a friendly anymore.
Some people are stuck in the past like the guy from Goonwaffe and Cade Windstalker. Its people like them that are the issue why EVE online is stagnating. They say no to everything for no reason other than "Its always been like that, so it should never change". They deserve to be kicked out from this forum.
So, eve is stagnating because you can't easily see the hostile cyno hiding out ina system with 300+ blues in local?
eve is stagnating because you do not have instant notification of every hostile entering your system without even having to pay any real attention?
eve s stagnating because it's too hard to avoid pvp, in this full pvp sandbox?
Hmm. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6445
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Posted - 2017.05.02 22:05:47 -
[17] - Quote
perseus skye wrote:Not everybody that plays eve is a pvp player ,some are explorers and some industrialists as in the Npeit used to ask you about what style you want to be etc
This idea is bad though about removing local as wormhole is about as risk averse place as I have ever seen but not everybody wants to pvp in eve neither should we attempt to drive them out .
So what? Just because you do not want to interact that way with other players does not mean others can't interact that way with you.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Cade Windstalker
1505
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Posted - 2017.05.02 22:57:06 -
[18] - Quote
manus wrote:+1
Whats the harm? Everyone gets the feature. So whats the harm? Besides this functionality also leaves room for error. What if your contacts is not up to date? Whoops, someone is in system that you filtered that is potentially not a friendly anymore.
Some people are stuck in the past like the guy from Goonwaffe and Cade Windstalker. Its people like them that are the issue why EVE online is stagnating. They say no to everything for no reason other than "Its always been like that, so it should never change". They deserve to be kicked out from this forum.
Because Local is a zero effort intel tool that needs to be changed significantly, not made into an even better and easier intel tool?
Also contacts? What? In Null everything is handled at the Alliance level, and anyone dumb enough to blue their friend's cloaky scout or whatever is already asking to be dropped now. This doesn't add anything remotely new or interesting here.
I don't say no to things just because that's how it's always been, I *always* have a reason. Sometimes that reason is simply "I see no improvement over what we have now, therefore this isn't worth the dev time" which is a perfectly reasonable rationale. If you go around expecting things to happen just because *you* can't see the harm in them you are destined for a career of disappointment and anger sir. Especially given your limited knowledge of this game you seem to want to change so very much about... |
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
503
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Posted - 2017.05.03 02:16:53 -
[19] - Quote
Minimize local. Friendlies gone. Shazam.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
311
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Posted - 2017.05.03 11:19:53 -
[20] - Quote
I'd settle for the ability to sort by standing, reverse alphabet, and time in system.
That last one might actually buff cloak camping. |
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Cade Windstalker
1506
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Posted - 2017.05.03 12:51:18 -
[21] - Quote
SupaL33tH4x0r Regime wrote:CCP as said know to a lot of things and yet we have some of those now.
I am assuming you mean "has" and "no".
Given that, um, no they haven't and no we don't? I'm legitimately really struggling to find an example of anything CCP has ever given any kind of firm negative to or even a 'we really don't like this', that has later made it into the game. Do you happen to have any examples? |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1241
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Posted - 2017.05.03 13:27:48 -
[22] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Ramukan wrote:Danika Princip wrote:No, you cannot make your 100% free intel tool considerably more powerful. I want to it to be both more functional and give me better view of the space vistas CCP worked so hard to create. No, you're asking for instant notification of anyone not blue entering local. Dress it up however you want, but that's the gist of it. Just what makes you think this is anything but a completely honest request? Why does it have to be a thinly disguised request fore more free intel?
Setting those aside because I really only ask them because I am curious I do have to ask how would this have a negative impact on things. Let me just put forth a few ideas I have actually seen used by other players to give them instant notification that someone has entered the system.
Keep your local window adjusted in size top to bottom so it lists everyone in local with no scroll bar. The moment anyone jumps into the system the game adds a scroll bar and bingo instant notification. Another system I see used is to keep your local window extended to cover the entire screen top to bottom and then use a small post it note to tag the location of the last entry, the moment someone comes into system the list extends below the post it note marker and again instant notification. Combine either of these with the low number of characters in most low / nul sec systems and the color coding we already have and it only takes 2 maybe 3 seconds to ID that new character and one has to ask would the OP idea really change this in any way that really matters?
I agree with you and the others that local needs a re-think especially in nul sec, but I simply cannot even begin to imagine how the OP idea would add anything we do not already have so my response is why not. +1 |
Ramukan
Perkone Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2017.05.05 03:27:41 -
[23] - Quote
summary response:
after reading this far (the usual troll posts of course have been posted and by me ignored as is my personal policy). To those that honestly spoke for or against the idea, especially those providing reasons as to why i write the following:
I look at the world as it is and deal with it as such. Local is used as an intel tool it is why i have it open. I will keep using it as an intel tool regardless. All im asking for is that the tool take up less visual space. I have about 6 spreadsheets open at all times and most of them i can see no way to make them any smaller but removing friendlies from local would allow me to greatly reduce the size of local (as i mentioned it is often stretched from the bottom of my screen to the top)
I cannot of course speak for others but i have only on the rarest of occasions actually used local to speak to another person during my appoximately 4 years of playing eve, unlike WOW where i used local a lot, in EVE it is largely useless.
Someone mentioned that CCP never intended for local to provide free intel but you'd have to be a pretty low wattage bulb to not see that this was inevitable. Also, the map gives away so much free intel that if CCP does truly have something against free intel they have a very odd way of showing it. |
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3911
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 04:19:34 -
[24] - Quote
Does not warrant making it a better intel tool.
The map is not real time. Please delay local by 15 minutes. That would solve so much.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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perseus skye
Republic University Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 11:43:28 -
[25] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:perseus skye wrote:Not everybody that plays eve is a pvp player ,some are explorers and some industrialists as in the Npeit used to ask you about what style you want to be etc
This idea is bad though about removing local as wormhole is about as risk averse place as I have ever seen but not everybody wants to pvp in eve neither should we attempt to drive them out .
So what? Just because you do not want to interact that way with other players does not mean others can't interact that way with you.
TBH interaction is what makes eve different and more exciting and I wouldn't like this to change I'm just saying some may get involved in pvp but aren't going out looking for it ,possibly why a lot stay in high sec
Eve is for everybody that's why incursions anomalies and missions exist ,I'm sure if eve was pure pvp and mining only it would be much emptier .
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Tabyll Altol
Vision Inc Hole Control
185
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Posted - 2017.05.05 13:44:47 -
[26] - Quote
Ramukan wrote:i cant find a way to do this so if it's already a thing simply point out how to do it for me please, otherwise:
I would like to be able to filter out corporation and/or alliance members from local, this would allow me to make my local page much smaller when im doing things where enemies might be a problem but so many friendlies are around i feel the need to have local as big as possible on my screen, normally covering from bottom to top.
And another 0.0 carebear beggin for better and easier intel.
-1 |
Cade Windstalker
1515
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Posted - 2017.05.05 14:22:02 -
[27] - Quote
Ramukan wrote:summary response:
after reading this far (the usual troll posts of course have been posted and by me ignored as is my personal policy). To those that honestly spoke for or against the idea, especially those providing reasons as to why i write the following:
I look at the world as it is and deal with it as such. Local is used as an intel tool it is why i have it open. I will keep using it as an intel tool regardless. All im asking for is that the tool take up less visual space. I have about 6 spreadsheets open at all times and most of them i can see no way to make them any smaller but removing friendlies from local would allow me to greatly reduce the size of local (as i mentioned it is often stretched from the bottom of my screen to the top)
I cannot of course speak for others but i have only on the rarest of occasions actually used local to speak to another person during my appoximately 4 years of playing eve, unlike WOW where i used local a lot, in EVE it is largely useless.
Someone mentioned that CCP never intended for local to provide free intel but you'd have to be a pretty low wattage bulb to not see that this was inevitable. Also, the map gives away so much free intel that if CCP does truly have something against free intel they have a very odd way of showing it.
To which CCP have responded with something along the lines of 'we aren't really happy with the role of local as an intel tool and we don't want to make it easier to use it as such, we want to replace it with more interesting mechanics'.
Local was something created back at the very start of the game, before any of the meta gameplay or anything like the current state of the game existed. It's *really easy* to look back and say "well this use of local is obvious" but it's way harder to go back to 2003 and look forward and see anything like what Eve was going to turn into. |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
28
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Posted - 2017.05.05 14:47:48 -
[28] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Because Local is a zero effort intel tool that needs to be changed significantly
Why?
Quote: don't say no to things just because that's how it's always been, I *always* have a reason. Sometimes that reason is simply "I see no improvement over what we have now, therefore this isn't worth the dev time"
First of all, the devs arent working on anything interesting anyway. Have you seen the may update? Its a giant fiasco that brings nothing interesting to the table
Second of all, op gave a pretty good reason for why this would be a good idea, would you be kind and explain the idea OP put forward and the rationale behind it. Just so i know that you understand it. Because i dont think you do.
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Cade Windstalker
1515
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Posted - 2017.05.05 17:30:46 -
[29] - Quote
manus wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Because Local is a zero effort intel tool that needs to be changed significantly Why?
Because anything that provides benefit with no risk, cost, reward, or investment required isn't in the spirit of Eve, and Intel is a very powerful combat tool.
CCP have flatly said that the current mechanics don't align with their vision of Eve, and looking at the chatter on the forums and around other community areas suggests that the majority of players agree with them, they just don't agree on how the situation should be addressed.
manus wrote:[quote] don't say no to things just because that's how it's always been, I *always* have a reason. Sometimes that reason is simply "I see no improvement over what we have now, therefore this isn't worth the dev time"
First of all, the devs arent working on anything interesting anyway. Have you seen the may update? Its a giant fiasco that brings nothing interesting to the table
No.
This is your opinion, not a fact. Just because you don't like what CCP is doing or where their priorities doesn't mean they're wasting their time or that anyone but a small minority agrees with you.
The new suns are probably the most broadly popular thing CCP have done in a year.
On a personal note I'm more excited about the Bloodraider Shipyards and what the tech behind them means for PvE in Eve than I've been about any change in the game since CCP announced the ship and module tiericide.
Just because there's nothing there for *you* personally that doesn't mean it's a bad update, not every update is going to have something for every player. Expecting them to is just unrealistic on your part.
manus wrote:Second of all, op gave a pretty good reason for why this would be a good idea, would you be kind and explain the idea OP put forward and the rationale behind it. Just so i know that you understand it. Because i dont think you do.
As for the OP's suggestion, their reasoning is fair, but the effect of their change would be to make it *much* easier to use Local as an intel tool. You either fail to realize this or you're willfully ignoring it. CCP literally responded previously to a question at Fanfest (last year I believe) on filtering Local and similar options and shot it down with exactly the reasoning I'm presenting here.
They do not like Local's role as an intel tool, it wasn't intended but they're kind of stuck with it, given that they would like to change that role but for now they're leaving it, and they're certainly not going to buff it. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6458
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 21:12:30 -
[30] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Ramukan wrote:summary response:
after reading this far (the usual troll posts of course have been posted and by me ignored as is my personal policy). To those that honestly spoke for or against the idea, especially those providing reasons as to why i write the following:
I look at the world as it is and deal with it as such. Local is used as an intel tool it is why i have it open. I will keep using it as an intel tool regardless. All im asking for is that the tool take up less visual space. I have about 6 spreadsheets open at all times and most of them i can see no way to make them any smaller but removing friendlies from local would allow me to greatly reduce the size of local (as i mentioned it is often stretched from the bottom of my screen to the top)
I cannot of course speak for others but i have only on the rarest of occasions actually used local to speak to another person during my appoximately 4 years of playing eve, unlike WOW where i used local a lot, in EVE it is largely useless.
Someone mentioned that CCP never intended for local to provide free intel but you'd have to be a pretty low wattage bulb to not see that this was inevitable. Also, the map gives away so much free intel that if CCP does truly have something against free intel they have a very odd way of showing it. To which CCP have responded with something along the lines of 'we aren't really happy with the role of local as an intel tool and we don't want to make it easier to use it as such, we want to replace it with more interesting mechanics'. Local was something created back at the very start of the game, before any of the meta gameplay or anything like the current state of the game existed. It's *really easy* to look back and say "well this use of local is obvious" but it's way harder to go back to 2003 and look forward and see anything like what Eve was going to turn into.
IMO, this is exactly right. And I'll go even further, people need to think this way about EVE all the time. Careful what you do in terms of mechanics, what actually emerges maybe very different from what you intended. This is why I tend to be rather harsh on the arguments that go:
Lets change Mechanic 243 and that will lead to A which in turn gives us B and thus C, and everything will be good. Except there is nothing constraining that process so that we have to get just that outcome. They maybe right, but then again probably not.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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