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Vlad Cetes
No.Mercy Triumvirate.
108
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Posted - 2017.05.05 19:06:17 -
[1] - Quote
"Molok, libeled as 'The Deceiver' by the false faith, was truer than any so-called 'True Amarr' follower of the corrupted throne squatters could ever be. He it was that understood the true nature of the universe. There is only one truth: power is all; naked, merciless force wielded by those with the will to grapple with it. - Omir Sarikusa
In all the inane ramblings of the Covenant, Omir Sarikusa finally understands the Truth. True Power comes from force.
The Amarr claim religion gives them the right to rule: But what happens when the lowly decide to throw off their shackles and rise up?
The Minmatar claim tribal allegiance: But what when the forgotten and left behind Tribes decide to seize their own destiny?
The Gallente claim cultural supremacy: But yet, what happens when humans decide to reject the hedonism?
The Caldari claim economic supremacy and meritocracy: But what happens when some one is slighted by the system?
Force is the only way to truly keep humans in line. Whether through deterrence, VITOC, TCMCs, or others.
Discuss. |
Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1109
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Posted - 2017.05.05 19:14:23 -
[2] - Quote
That which makes one good at seizing power rarely makes them good governors and maintainers of power.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3403
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Posted - 2017.05.05 19:19:26 -
[3] - Quote
Vlad Cetes wrote:The Minmatar claim tribal allegiance: But what when the forgotten and left behind Tribes decide to seize their own destiny?
Which 'forgotten and left behind Tribes'? The Thukker, out in the Great Wildlands by their own choice? The Nefantar, who've been told that if they want to come home, they can, and those who've decided to have been given economic and social aid as they re-integrate? The Starkmanir, whose return from being thought dead was cause for ceelbreation across the Tribes, and who also are being given assistance in getting back on their feet and integrated into our society?
Which of those Tribes, all of whom have seats on the Tribal Council, equal to those of the Brutor, Krusial, Sebiestor, and Vheriokhor, are the 'forgotten and left behind Tribes' you speak of?
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Utari Onzo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1673
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Posted - 2017.05.05 19:40:07 -
[4] - Quote
Flame baiting 101
Post a super generalised opener, referencing natural enemies of rival factions, and apparently making a tenious claim in the process. End with "discuss" to appear thought provoking, rather then just irksome.
5/10 for effort.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3177
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Posted - 2017.05.05 21:29:56 -
[5] - Quote
Vlad Cetes wrote: The Caldari claim economic supremacy and meritocracy: But what happens when some one is slighted by the system?
The real force comes with many, not one.
The State will prevail.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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James Syagrius
Reclamation
1728
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Posted - 2017.05.05 23:36:43 -
[6] - Quote
An interesting discussion.
There are many kinds of power.
The manifestation of some are obvious, others more opaque.
I have always held to the premise that the most enduring kind of power isn't seized, but accumulated.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2017.05.05 23:46:39 -
[7] - Quote
The only way to royalty is regicide.
There just happens to be many ways to depose kings.
... and the greatest kings were those who avoided regicide most creatively.
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1616
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Posted - 2017.05.05 23:50:02 -
[8] - Quote
Low effort nonsense. Bring something more than a crayon drawing by a five year old to the table. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3708
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Posted - 2017.05.05 23:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:An interesting discussion.
At its heart, it isn't, though.
Power is a tool set, various means to various ends. As a goal in itself, it is empty, potential without purpose.
There's so much to the world, so much beauty and wonder. But those who understand power, and nothing else, who believe in power, and nothing else, focus on one very narrow truth and miss everything else.
There might be a more boring philosophy somewhere. If so, I haven't met it yet. |
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
934
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Posted - 2017.05.06 12:32:02 -
[10] - Quote
Vlad Cetes wrote:In all the inane ramblings of the Covenant, Omir Sarikusa finally understands the Truth. True Power comes from force. Sarikusa should know better. True Power comes from Nation.
Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation
Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
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Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
260
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Posted - 2017.05.06 12:42:41 -
[11] - Quote
Be pious, and the Lord will give you strength!
((
If you are a roleplayer, please join official CCP channels ingame for roleplayers and support roleplaying community:
Intergalactic Summit - IC router
Out of Character - channel for discussion of roleplay, live events and lore
))
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Ioannis Sepphiros
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2017.05.06 14:46:59 -
[12] - Quote
Vlad Cetes wrote:"Molok, libeled as 'The Deceiver' by the false faith, was truer than any so-called 'True Amarr' follower of the corrupted throne squatters could ever be. He it was that understood the true nature of the universe. There is only one truth: power is all; naked, merciless force wielded by those with the will to grapple with it. - Omir Sarikusa
In all the inane ramblings of the Covenant, Omir Sarikusa finally understands the Truth. True Power comes from force.
The Amarr claim religion gives them the right to rule: But what happens when the lowly decide to throw off their shackles and rise up?
The Minmatar claim tribal allegiance: But what when the forgotten and left behind Tribes decide to seize their own destiny?
The Gallente claim cultural supremacy: But yet, what happens when humans decide to reject the hedonism?
The Caldari claim economic supremacy and meritocracy: But what happens when some one is slighted by the system?
Force is the only way to truly keep humans in line. Whether through deterrence, VITOC, TCMCs, or others.
Discuss.
What are we to discuss? Evolution? |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
155
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Posted - 2017.05.06 19:16:30 -
[13] - Quote
Luna Hanaya wrote:Be pious, and the Lord will give you strength!
That would be the perception of strength.
Faith on the other hand can be one set source of strength.
Good topic Vlad.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Lasairiona Raske
Raske Holdings
361
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Posted - 2017.05.06 19:26:11 -
[14] - Quote
Shut up, Vlad.
Are you a devil or an angel
Sent here from heaven or from hell?
Sweet temptress, I'm wrapped in your tangles
Can't find my way out of your spell
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Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
901
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Posted - 2017.05.06 19:44:14 -
[15] - Quote
There is a saying, "As strength goes all follow."
Realize there is many types of strength and many forms of following.
As strength goes.
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Sinjin Mokk
Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde
1225
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Posted - 2017.05.06 21:21:53 -
[16] - Quote
Force, is nothing.
Force is nothing, without guidance, control.
Bloody Omir's failing is that he wields excessive force, but fails to mold it to his wishes.
Sansha too, is clueless, even if he has better systems for control. He dashes himself against the stones of CONCORD in a manner that's doomed to endless failure.
Fatal and Rabbit have much force and little control. Sarpati has great control, but little force.
I do know of one organization that excels in the proper utilization of great force and control systems.
And for the past century...they are never far.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
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Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
938
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Posted - 2017.05.06 21:56:03 -
[17] - Quote
Ah...CONCORD.
Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation
Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
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James Syagrius
Reclamation
1729
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Posted - 2017.05.07 01:31:44 -
[18] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:James Syagrius wrote:An interesting discussion. At its heart, it isn't, though. Power is a tool set, various means to various ends. As a goal in itself, it is empty, potential without purpose. There's so much to the world, so much beauty and wonder. But those who understand power, and nothing else, who believe in power, and nothing else, focus on one very narrow truth and miss everything else. There might be a more boring philosophy somewhere. If so, I haven't met it yet. Most discussions are pointless to those who have nothing to learn. Or worse yet, know everything. Of course, there are those who disagree tooGǪ well, disagree.
Power is seldom accumulated for its own sake. It is a tool nothing more, like wealth or skill, a means to an end. To protect a thing, or to protect against a thing, equally necessary.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and wonderGǪ can be caused by many things.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3744
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Posted - 2017.05.07 02:45:29 -
[19] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Power is seldom accumulated for its own sake. It is a tool nothing more, like wealth or skill, a means to an end. To protect a thing, or to protect against a thing, equally necessary.
I gather you haven't met the Sani Sabik previously, Mr. Syagrius, at least not in a context to talk philosophy. The fact that Sani Sabik practice is legal in the Federation might be one of your society's more serious mistakes.
There's a lot of variety but a core thread runs through pretty much all of it (excepting a very few far-flung offshoots like Mr. Nauplius's cult):
"Power Matters." Actually, the way they usually cast it is more (to paraphrase the theme of Mr. Cete's post), "Power is All."
From Blood Raiders to arguably-innocuous self-improvers, this thread runs throughout. As is the focus on this insight, to the exclusion of, usually, all others.
It's not completely wrong. Actually in its more limited form ("power matters"), it's ... well, just true. But it's also a horribly limited and actually kind of awful insight if it's the only one you have.
I don't dislike the Sani Sabik because they're wrong; they're not, really, at least about that. I dislike them because they're horrendously obsessed with a single jagged shard of reality, and most of them, instead of noting the truth they've found and moving on, just sort of cluster around it cutting themselves (and other people) on its edges and congratulating themselves over what a wonderful, shiny, sharp find they've made.
The best among them do really, truly understand power, though. Just, maybe, not much else.
If you don't yet know Mr. Cetes very well, I invite you to get to know him. He's not so much typical as, well. Maybe kind of archetypal? And pretty extremely transhuman, if he is what he appears/claims to be.
There are so many truths in this world. This one won't suffer for having a little less attention paid to it. |
James Syagrius
Reclamation
1732
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Posted - 2017.05.08 01:15:07 -
[20] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:James Syagrius wrote:Power is seldom accumulated for its own sake. It is a tool nothing more, like wealth or skill, a means to an end. To protect a thing, or to protect against a thing, equally necessary. I gather you haven't met the Sani Sabik previously, Mr. Syagrius, at least not in a context to talk philosophy. The fact that Sani Sabik practice is legal in the Federation might be one of your society's more serious mistakes. Ironicly the same argument has been directed at me regarding the Amarrian faith Ms. Jenneth.
Now your religious proclivities are your own, I understand but considering whom you serve.... Many things are allowed in the Federation, after a fashion, and within the law.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3759
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Posted - 2017.05.08 04:51:46 -
[21] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Ironicly the same argument has been directed at me regarding the Amarrian faith Ms. Jenneth.
Now your religious proclivities are your own, I understand but considering whom you serve.... Many things are allowed in the Federation, after a fashion, and within the law.
Well ... that's natural. If either faith gains majority voting power, your society's likely to change a little. Most Imperial Amarr seem to see the faith and the Empire as kind of one and the same. I wonder whether Amarr outside the Empire see it the same way, though.
Those I've met ... it seems maybe not?
Anyway, I'm still an Achur, Mr. Syagrius. We have several monasteries in your Federation, but ... well ... that means exactly that. Several monasteries; probably a few thousand Achura.
Although! We are of course planning to spread aggressively and bring you all under the righteous rule of the Elder Visionaries! Soon all shall bow before us! Bwahaha!
(That was a joke, if it wasn't obvious. ... though I guess you might have to be an Achur to understand just how funny such an idea is.)
(We're about as aggressive as toast.) |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
168
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Posted - 2017.05.08 11:22:09 -
[22] - Quote
Toasts can still make you choke and die.
Watch out.
Join Project Transcendence.
Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
SoE Roughriders Electus Matari
831
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Posted - 2017.05.08 11:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lasairiona Raske wrote:Shut up, Vlad. Now if I said anything like that to any capsuleer in public there'd be a huge outcry of "how rude!" and "do you have to always be so negative" and all that.
Which brings me to the point.
Quote:Force is the only way to truly keep humans in line. This is a fact. In the end, if the humans do not want to stay in line, the only thing that will make them so is force, and sometimes not even force - individual humans can sometimes choose to die rather than submit to force.
However, it is a very simplistic view of the universe, so simplistic that this fact alone tells you almost nothing. It's like saying "in the end, everything must follow gravity". That's a fact, too, but you cannot explain planes based on only that - let alone spaceships.
There are many ways to "make" people do things. They will follow words, they will follow loyalty, they will follow love, they will follow glory, they will follow status. They will follow mana - influence. Some people have it. Some people get other people to accept things, to do things, without the threat of force, without the threat of anything - they get people to do what they feel is necessary because those people will want to do it.
In the end, there is only force. But the trick is not to let it go to that end if you do not have to.
This is especially true among capsuleers. There is only so much force you can put on any of them. You can kick them out of a corporation and you can force them out of a region of space, but that's pretty much the limit of what you can by force.
So you need other ways.
Else |
James Syagrius
Reclamation
1732
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Posted - 2017.05.08 23:58:12 -
[24] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Well ... that's natural. If either faith gains majority voting power, your society's likely to change a little. Most Imperial Amarr seem to see the faith and the Empire as kind of one and the same. I wonder whether Amarr outside the Empire see it the same way, though. Those I've met ... it seems maybe not? The Federation has a way of tempering the majority while exaggerating the minority Ms. Jenneth. So she remains remarkably unchanged season to season, regardless of demographic changes, due mostly to the prevailing common culture of GÇÿyesGÇÖ and the complicated mix of popular and federated government.
There is a sizable Amarr population within the Federation, though admittedly concentrated, not forgetting the Ni-Kunni seem to assimilate more rapidly.
The 'Faithful' within the Federation used to be more vocal. But as with most, traditions yield to modernity one funeral at a time. One thing however you might find of interest is a core tenant of the GÇÿReformed FaithGÇÖ within the Federation being that GÇÿGodGÇÖ is greater than the Empire. That the Amarr have turned the faith of GÇÿAmarrGÇÖ into a faith about Amarr.
Aria Jenneth wrote:Anyway, I'm still an Achur, Mr. Syagrius. We have several monasteries in your Federation, but ... well ... that means exactly that. Several monasteries; probably a few thousand Achura.
Although! We are of course planning to spread aggressively and bring you all under the righteous rule of the Elder Visionaries! Soon all shall bow before us! Bwahaha! I am sadly ignorant of the Achur or their ways. But with your recommendation I will take a risk and seek out one of these GÇÿradicalGÇÖ monastic orders to visit.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
7544
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Posted - 2017.05.09 04:00:30 -
[25] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:
Although! We are of course planning to spread aggressively and bring you all under the righteous rule of the Elder Visionaries! Soon all shall bow before us! Bwahaha!
I am sadly ignorant of the Achur or their ways. But with your recommendation I will take a risk and seek out one of these GÇÿradicalGÇÖ monastic orders to visit.
Careful, James - they'll try to steal your shoes!
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3478
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Posted - 2017.05.09 04:11:43 -
[26] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Although! We are of course planning to spread aggressively and bring you all under the righteous rule of the Elder Visionaries! Soon all shall bow before us! Bwahaha!
(That was a joke, if it wasn't obvious. ... though I guess you might have to be an Achur to understand just how funny such an idea is.)
(We're about as aggressive as toast.)
I have to admit, I rather like the idea of an oppressive tyranny conducted by the leaders of a sect devoted to the belief in the unity of all things.
"You shall all bow... before... everything. Whoah. Like that bumblebee! Bow to the bumblebee! And the flower! And that grass! You see the wind? It's making the grass bow to you! And you're the grass! So you're bowing to you... bowing to you... bowing to the bumblebee... so trippy..." |
James Syagrius
Reclamation
1735
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Posted - 2017.05.09 22:23:16 -
[27] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Careful, James - they'll try to steal your shoes! That is disturbing on many levels.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
128
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Posted - 2017.05.10 05:32:02 -
[28] - Quote
Che Biko wrote:Sarikusa should know better. True Power comes from Nation. It's a shame he doesn't...
Aria Jenneth wrote:I dislike them because they're horrendously obsessed with a single jagged shard of reality, and most of them, instead of noting the truth they've found and moving on, just sort of cluster around it cutting themselves (and other people) on its edges and congratulating themselves over what a wonderful, shiny, sharp find they've made. But it is very shiny!
Sinjin Mokk wrote:I do know of one organization that excels in the proper utilization of great force and control systems.
And for the past century...they are never far. Oooooh lemme guess!
Equilibrium of Mankind?
...Ro... rogue drones?
Oh! Goons?
The Jove???
Pod goo deodorant suppliers?
Crystal Boulevard hi-end retailers? (At least when I'm in their stores)
...
Nope. I'm out. I give up! TELL ME! DON'T LEAVE ME HANGING!
But here is the blood still and all the perfumes of Aridia will not sweeten this little rose GÖÑ
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3799
|
Posted - 2017.05.10 06:07:49 -
[29] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Careful, James - they'll try to steal your shoes! That is disturbing on many levels. He's messing with you (and us) a little, Mr. Syagrius. It's customary to remove shoes inside a temple or similar space, and sometimes throughout a whole monastery (depending on where it is, which sect runs it, and how it's designed). Practice, meditation, and prayer is all typically done barefoot, in stocking feet, or (especially in colder places) with special indoor shoes or slippers. |
Sid Afraldir
Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
289
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Posted - 2017.05.10 06:28:56 -
[30] - Quote
Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote:Che Biko wrote:Sarikusa should know better. True Power comes from Nation. It's a shame he doesn't... Aria Jenneth wrote:I dislike them because they're horrendously obsessed with a single jagged shard of reality, and most of them, instead of noting the truth they've found and moving on, just sort of cluster around it cutting themselves (and other people) on its edges and congratulating themselves over what a wonderful, shiny, sharp find they've made. But it is very shiny!Sinjin Mokk wrote:I do know of one organization that excels in the proper utilization of great force and control systems.
And for the past century...they are never far. Oooooh lemme guess! Equilibrium of Mankind? ...Ro... rogue drones? Oh! Goons? The Jove??? Pod goo deodorant suppliers? Crystal Boulevard hi-end retailers? (At least when I'm in their stores) ... Nope. I'm out. I give up! TELL ME! DON'T LEAVE ME HANGING!
It me.
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