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virm pasuul
Viziam Amarr Empire
427
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Posted - 2017.05.14 21:24:11 -
[1] - Quote
It's against the Eve ToS to biomass ganking alts to avoid the negative consequence of security status. Fair enough.
Why is it OK to biomass trade hub spammer bots to avoid the negative consequence of being blocked by everyone? Seems to be inconsistent with point one.
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Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
126650
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Posted - 2017.05.14 21:26:52 -
[2] - Quote
Or, they make a new acc.
FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
21079
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Posted - 2017.05.14 21:35:55 -
[3] - Quote
Because no matter how hard you try, you cant make me explode by spamming local with crappy scamms.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
=]|[=
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1186
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Posted - 2017.05.14 23:50:31 -
[4] - Quote
People read local chat in trade hubs? Interesting... |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
21086
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Posted - 2017.05.15 02:42:41 -
[5] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:People read local chat in trade hubs? Interesting... Yeah aparently. Bloody hipsters.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
=]|[=
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
3006
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Posted - 2017.05.15 02:58:47 -
[6] - Quote
meh. if it is too good to be true, well you should know what they say about that at this point.
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1381
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Posted - 2017.05.15 04:58:26 -
[7] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:People read local chat in trade hubs? Interesting... The spambots wouldn't exist without people falling for the scams..
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8447
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Posted - 2017.05.15 05:32:35 -
[8] - Quote
What is this "local" you people are referring to?
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
21089
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Posted - 2017.05.15 07:24:54 -
[9] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:What is this "local" you people are referring to? The intel thingy that tells you how lickly you are to die.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
=]|[=
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6472
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Posted - 2017.05.15 10:05:33 -
[10] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Because no matter how hard you try, you cant make me explode by spamming local with crappy scamms.
What? You have got to be shitting me!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
364
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Posted - 2017.05.15 10:33:34 -
[11] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:It's against the Eve ToS to biomass ganking alts to avoid the negative consequence of security status. Fair enough.
What consequences? The gankers just travel in pods, use neutral Orcas to get in ganking ships and warp straight to their next target. Trading, hauling, ISK making ist done with neutral alts. There are no real consequences for gankers. |
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori
Ghost Nebula 237 Corporation Bloodline.
0
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Posted - 2017.05.16 04:49:49 -
[12] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote:virm pasuul wrote:It's against the Eve ToS to biomass ganking alts to avoid the negative consequence of security status. Fair enough.
What consequences? The gankers just travel in pods, use neutral Orcas to get in ganking ships and warp straight to their next target. Trading, hauling, ISK making ist done with neutral alts. There are no real consequences for gankers.
Why do you think the Code Alliance is such a very big problem? There are no 'real consequences' for them. They warp to you, kill you, lose their ship, then go and get a new one while you're left with nothing. Nothing that Code does is profitable. They shouldn't exist by themselves as they are constantly losing ships ganking people, and making no profit from it. So how is it that they have so many gankers, all over high sec, and able to fund it?
Because they are being funded by alts. Everyone in the 'Code Alliance' is an Alt and being funded by their main alt to 'avoid the negative consequence of security status.' But even then, you can kill NPC to raise your standings (Which in itself is stupid).
Even being a Criminal isn't a problem. You just warp to a station and wait the timer out. You're completely safe and protected, and nothing will ever happen to you.
That's kinda funny you know. Concord protecting the stations and gates, but will happily let Criminals and those with low standing use the gates and dock at stations. Wish they would fix that. Criminals should be shot on sight by Concord and barred from any stations in High and Low sec. Let them run around in Null and WH space. And Negative Standing should bar you from being able to use Concord's gates to get into the High Sec areas, not just be a little slap on the wrist.
In low, Null, and WHs, ganking should be a problem. But it should NEVER be a problem in High Sec. I wish there was more you could do, and harsher restrictions for Criminals and Negative standing in High Sec.
After all, Concord is meant to Police the High Sec, and yet they can't do anything about the gankers in Code Alliance. To me, that says there is a problem in the game that the Devs need to fix. In low sec, ganking should be a problem, never in high sec. So why has it been allowed to go on for years?
It's clear that they are exploiting the game to ruin the fun of players in high sec. Using alts to get around Negitive Standing, and exploiting how they can wait out timers in Stations before getting new ships or using Neutral ships like Orcas to store more ships to keep ganking without consequences.
Dealing with Code is not fun, it has no profit, they exploit Multiboxing and using alts to gank people being funded by their main alt. And unless you go to war with Code, gearing up for PvP and doing Concord's job for them, there is nothing you can do till they attack and kill one of your ships first to turn criminal, and like I explained earlier, they don't lose anything for doing that. They just warp out as a pod and get a new ship and do it again and again, while you have to constantly replace the ships they destroy.
They exploit the High Sec rules, they found loopholes to not get killed in a pod, and hiding in stations to wait out the timers. And the Devs do nothing about it. How big of a problem does Code have to get before they step in and fix the broken systems in High Sec that they keep exploiting? |
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
118
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Posted - 2017.05.16 05:34:32 -
[13] - Quote
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:
Why do you think the Code Alliance is such a very big problem? There are no 'real consequences' for them. They warp to you, kill you, lose their ship, then go and get a new one while you're left with nothing. Nothing that Code does is profitable. They shouldn't exist by themselves as they are constantly losing ships ganking people, and making no profit from it. So how is it that they have so many gankers, all over high sec, and able to fund it?
CODE isn't actually a big problem.
Quote:
Because they are being funded by alts. Everyone in the 'Code Alliance' is an Alt and being funded by their main alt to 'avoid the negative consequence of security status.' But even then, you can kill NPC to raise your standings (Which in itself is stupid).
The alliance itself was actually funded to the tune of hundreds of billions of isk via a public thread - think it was in the market sub forum. its still probably got some sort of top line funding and from what I can see they also shifted to far more profitable economic ganking and a lot less miner ganking. ie cost realities hit CODE eventually. In any case, if someone mines ice with 10 alts to fund whatever they want, then there isn't any moral reason CODE pilots can't do likewise.
Quote:
Even being a Criminal isn't a problem. You just warp to a station and wait the timer out. You're completely safe and protected, and nothing will ever happen to you.
That's kinda funny you know. Concord protecting the stations and gates, but will happily let Criminals and those with low standing use the gates and dock at stations. Wish they would fix that. Criminals should be shot on sight by Concord and barred from any stations in High and Low sec. Let them run around in Null and WH space. And Negative Standing should bar you from being able to use Concord's gates to get into the High Sec areas, not just be a little slap on the wrist.
In low, Null, and WHs, ganking should be a problem. But it should NEVER be a problem in High Sec. I wish there was more you could do, and harsher restrictions for Criminals and Negative standing in High Sec.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/62218865/
This is the equivalent event in nullsec. I warped my domi safe when the hostile entered system, miner wasn't paying attention, he was however, in the standing defense fleet, could tell us when he got tackled and where he was and what tackled, and the fleet mechanics give me a warp in, therefore I was able to respond, (as well as a tackler) and the miner was also in a ship that would last long enough for me to get there.
Important thing, is that response to hostiles is a fun task, it works properly in null, but the gameplay as a whole almost doesn't work in highsec because of highsec mechanics and the afk, unprepared, unfleeted, poorly fitted nature of the pilots being defended.
Quote:
After all, Concord is meant to Police the High Sec, and yet they can't do anything about the gankers in Code Alliance. To me, that says there is a problem in the game that the Devs need to fix. In low sec, ganking should be a problem, never in high sec. So why has it been allowed to go on for years?
Oh come now, if a vexor can do the job in nullsec, then I'm sure that invincible super ships with perfect ecm and massive firepower and unbreakable tanks + serious rules covering abusing them, that never go afk or log off can do the job just fine.
Quote:
It's clear that they are exploiting the game to ruin the fun of players in high sec. Using alts to get around Negitive Standing, and exploiting how they can wait out timers in Stations before getting new ships or using Neutral ships like Orcas to store more ships to keep ganking without consequences.
Dealing with Code is not fun, it has no profit, they exploit Multiboxing and using alts to gank people being funded by their main alt. And unless you go to war with Code, gearing up for PvP and doing Concord's job for them, there is nothing you can do till they attack and kill one of your ships first to turn criminal, and like I explained earlier, they don't lose anything for doing that. They just warp out as a pod and get a new ship and do it again and again, while you have to constantly replace the ships they destroy.
They exploit the High Sec rules, they found loopholes to not get killed in a pod, and hiding in stations to wait out the timers. And the Devs do nothing about it. How big of a problem does Code have to get before they step in and fix the broken systems in High Sec that they keep exploiting?
Nope, some of CODEs rhetoric is annoying,. but conceptually adding a loss chance to highsec is not at all a problem, it rewards people who take basic operational precautions, and it penalizes people that don't. That is good, not bad.
The pods are killable, and in any case who cares, an empty pod is free whether its yours or theirs.
The fix would be removal of highsec outside of starter systems, so I'd be careful of what you wish for.
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Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
4203
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Posted - 2017.05.16 05:49:28 -
[14] - Quote
Honestly It's probably more a manpower issue vs annoyance to the players. Policing this would be a nightmare and while **** isn't blowing up I doubt people will push this to the top of their CCP fix it wish list
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
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RainbowDashC22 Shiratori
Ghost Nebula 237 Corporation Bloodline.
0
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Posted - 2017.05.16 06:54:31 -
[15] - Quote
I can think, right off the top if my head, a few different 'Features/Changes' that would instantly fix this issue with Code up instantly.
In fact, here let me list a few.
In High Sec ONLY. 0.5 to 1.0 systems. 'Criminals' can not use any Gates in High Sec, nor leading TO High Sec while in a Pod, and will get shot immediately on sight by Concord and hunted within 10 seconds of entering a High Sec system, with the 'Count Down' NOT resetting even going through a new gate into a new High Sec system. They can, however, escape through Wormholes, and enter into High Sec through Wormholes.
'Criminals', and those with Negative Standing are no longer able to Dock in a station in High Sec, no matter if they are in a Ship or in a Pod. Criminals will be in effect in every High Sec system, while Negative Standing would only match the systems matching their Negative Standing. So 0 standing, means they can't enter stations in 1.0 system, while -3 standing can't enter stations in 0.7, 0.8, 0.9, and 1.0. With the last, -5 standing, being unable to Dock in any Station in High Sec at all. This means even if they own the station themselves or their corp owns it they will not be able to enter.
More importantly tho, 'Criminal' status, will NEVER be removed, till the PLAYER/POD is killed. You can no longer wait out a timer, you HAVE to be killed fully to lose your criminal status.
Suspect Status no longer has a timer either, and instead works as a 3 strike system. Susp players will no longer be hostile and kill able. However, they can not lose Susp Status, even if they get podded and the player killed. And when they do 3 'Susp Status' worthy things, they get turned into a Criminal instantly, and follow the rules above.
--- And as noted as above, this would effect High Sec system, and NOT Low Sec, Null, or WH space. Except the changes to how Criminal and Suspect status works, that's a global change and one for the better. Why would a Susp or Criminal just lose their criminal status by hiding in a station for a short while? But the changes to what Criminals can do in High Sec, namely Gate use while in a Pod, and unable to enter stations while Criminals or Negative Standing.
It never made sense why a Ganker could just get blasted to their pod, then Warp out of the system through Concord controlled Gates, or non Criminal Stations allowed to be in Concord's High Sec Controlled Systems and just magically stop being a 'Criminal' over time. They should be turned away by Stations for being Criminals, requests to dock denied, and unable to access Gates controlled by Concord while in a pod in High Sec where they are ever watchful. Pods are already over powered enough in High Sec by instant warping before you can even lock on to Warp Scramble them.
My changes above would fix a lot of problem with the game in High Sec, it would fix all of them of course, and would still let Criminals that want to Terrorize High Sec, the ability to live in Wormholes with a Static Exit leading to High Sec to 'Invade' from. And there are plenty of Wormholes in High Sec they can easily scan one down, bookmark it, then go gank someone and escape into the Wormhole.
This will keep High Sec players on their toes about the Anomalies in their system incase there is a Wormhole, and for Corps in high sec to patrol inside the Wormhole while it lasts to prevent Criminals from coming in that way, and to catch them if they try to leave.
And yes, I know this doesn't fix 1 issue. Namely whats stopping criminals from losing their ships and instead of waiting in a station for X time to lose criminal status, just have Concord blow up their pod to lose criminal status and come back from their base and redo the same thing again, especially if their base is nearby. There is only 3 ways I can think of 'Fixing' this.
First in changing 2 things. Each time you become a Criminal, you lose down a Negative level. So even if you were Standing 10, go criminal and instantly your Standing is 0, then go criminal again and it goes to -1, then -2, and from -2.5 to -3.5 and so on. And second thing, is that when you are at -5.0 or below, you Permanently become 'Criminal' status unless you raise your standing to -4.9 or above and get killed in a pod. This will of course not stop them from making alts to keep getting around Negative Standing issues, which is against ToS but they don't care and CCP isn't going to notice or care.
^ This will mean they would get at most 6 free shots before instantly becoming a criminal and as soon as they step out of the station, attackable by everyone nearby and players can guard against them. This will mean tho, that Criminals would be trapped in that station and unable to leave as he will be Permanently a criminal and unable to leave the station without a player killing him and sending him back to the station, back to square 1.
Second, have it so when they lose access to stations in High Sec do to them being Criminal or Negative Standings, it removes their clones from the stations they can't access anymore, and have to set their 'Home Station' and clones into a Station they can enter. If they turn Criminal, and had a single clone in a high sec station and it got cancled now, then when they die, they respawn into a random Station in Low or Null sec that they can enter. With the complimentary Faction beginning ship of course, like you always get when you enter a station with just a Pod.
^ This will make it so Criminals can't just stick their home base into a High Sec system they want to Terrorize, then constantly kill people, respawn and get into a new ship before going out instantly to repeat. It will force them back to Low or Null sec, and force them to get into a new ship and fly back. -> |
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori
Ghost Nebula 237 Corporation Bloodline.
0
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Posted - 2017.05.16 07:02:42 -
[16] - Quote
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:^ This will make it so Criminals can't just stick their home base into a High Sec system they want to Terrorize, then constantly kill people, respawn and get into a new ship before going out instantly to repeat. It will force them back to Low or Null sec, and force them to get into a new ship and fly back. ->
Fly back into High Sec, where Corps would be able to Guard the gates leading from Low Sec into High Sec if they wished to kill the Criminals on the way in. This also prevents them from saving into a Low Sec station right next to a gate leading to High Sec and coming in and Terrorizing it.
Third, would be that Criminal Status is on a timer instead of death, but much longer timer. Not minutes, or even hours. But you would be a 'Criminal' for 7 days, to a month, no matter how many times you die or get podded.
To 'Balance' the changes where people would be Criminals for long periods of time, a small change in Low Sec would be needed. Namely, that Concord would no longer instantly come after Criminals in Low Sec after being in there for 30 second. And instead, would only chase after a player with the 30 second timer AFTER they do something criminal worthy in Low Sec System. Then until they Die, Concord will keep chasing them through Low Sec like normal for Criminals. |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
7690
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 07:12:29 -
[17] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Shawn en Tilavine
Knights-of-Joo Reverberation Project
2
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Posted - 2017.05.16 07:12:43 -
[18] - Quote
WAI-DCAT
Works as intended-Don't change a thing.
"The world ain't fair, there is no Santa Claus, and not everyone gets a F'n trophy just for showing up. Welcome to the real world. Welcome to Eve."
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3414
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Posted - 2017.05.16 07:21:07 -
[19] - Quote
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:Why do you think the Code Alliance is such a very big problem? There are no 'real consequences' for them. They warp to you, kill you, lose their ship, then go and get a new one while you're left with nothing. Nothing that Code does is profitable. They shouldn't exist by themselves as they are constantly losing ships ganking people, and making no profit from it. So how is it that they have so many gankers, all over high sec, and able to fund it?
Because they are being funded by alts. Everyone in the 'Code Alliance' is an Alt and being funded by their main alt to 'avoid the negative consequence of security status.' But even then, you can kill NPC to raise your standings (Which in itself is stupid). Maybe you are on to something. What if the recycled Jita spam bots are the source of ISK that funds the CODE. Alliance?
Mind blown.
But I thought this was a Grr local scam/spam thread though not a Grr Code one? Probably you should put your ideas to save Eve by making it a safe carebear paradise in the appropriate forum: F&I.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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RainbowDashC22 Shiratori
Ghost Nebula 237 Corporation Bloodline.
0
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Posted - 2017.05.16 07:28:20 -
[20] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:Why do you think the Code Alliance is such a very big problem? There are no 'real consequences' for them. They warp to you, kill you, lose their ship, then go and get a new one while you're left with nothing. Nothing that Code does is profitable. They shouldn't exist by themselves as they are constantly losing ships ganking people, and making no profit from it. So how is it that they have so many gankers, all over high sec, and able to fund it?
Because they are being funded by alts. Everyone in the 'Code Alliance' is an Alt and being funded by their main alt to 'avoid the negative consequence of security status.' But even then, you can kill NPC to raise your standings (Which in itself is stupid). Maybe you are on to something. What if the recycled Jita spam bots are the source of ISK that funds the CODE. Alliance? Mind blown. But I thought this was a Grr local scam/spam thread though not a Grr Code one? Probably you should put your ideas to save Eve by making it a safe carebear paradise in the appropriate forum: F&I.
I'll actually go do that. Also, both are a problem. Making alts to spam is clogging up space in Jita. Didn't they remove a map in the center of the game because it was overloaded with too many players? Having lots of bot alts sitting around doing nothing but spamming will eventually overload the map again with too many players in 1 map, and most of them being spam bots. |
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Yebo Lakatosh
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
286
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Posted - 2017.05.16 11:16:40 -
[21] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Probably you should put your ideas to save Eve by making it a safe carebear paradise in the appropriate forum: F&I. Why ruin a perfectly good Grr CODE nurf CODE GD thread?
Ahh wait, that never stopped a single one of these, does it?
Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
367
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 12:27:06 -
[22] - Quote
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:They exploit the High Sec rules, they found loopholes to not get killed in a pod, and hiding in stations to wait out the timers. And the Devs do nothing about it. How big of a problem does Code have to get before they step in and fix the broken systems in High Sec that they keep exploiting? I guess that devs dont do anything against it because EVE needs every little bit of destruction. Stuff needs to be destroyed, otherwise the market would collapse. Since the null bears prefer to blue each other and stockpile wealth (even under the new sov system), the game needs every bit of destruction. Since most players are in highsec, a huge reduction of destruction in highsec would probably kill the economy. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
623
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 12:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
You are free to be a bad guy in game...you are also subject to getting that reputation in game, don't do those things if you are not willing to feel the pinch. |
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori
Ghost Nebula 237 Corporation Bloodline.
1
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Posted - 2017.05.16 12:35:18 -
[24] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote:RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:They exploit the High Sec rules, they found loopholes to not get killed in a pod, and hiding in stations to wait out the timers. And the Devs do nothing about it. How big of a problem does Code have to get before they step in and fix the broken systems in High Sec that they keep exploiting? I guess that devs dont do anything against it because EVE needs every little bit of destrucion. Stuff needs to be destroyed, otherwise the market would collapse. Since the null bears prefer to blue each other and stockpile wealth (even under the new sov system), the game needs every bit of destruction. Since most players are in highsec, a huge reduction of destrucion in highsec would probably kill the economy.
That is why most things in High Sec is 'Common' tho, and so cheap and not worth much. If you want to make ships, if you want to make anything really, you need to go into Low, Null, and WH space for the Materials you need to make them.
Destruction shouldn't be what draws players out of High Sec, more Wealth and Progress should be. High Sec is meant to be safer, but much less rewarding, like very little reward at all. It doesn't work like that tho. You can very easily make a LOT of money in High Sec. Just AFK Mining can get you a lot of money. This is why CODE targets Miners, to get them to stop doing that.
But that can easily change by having the Scematics switch, needing a lot more minerals only found in Low, Null, or WH, and needing less resources from High Sec. Force people to venture out to make money. Not to run away from exploiting gankers using the system to bully the players into doing what they want. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
623
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 12:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote:virm pasuul wrote:It's against the Eve ToS to biomass ganking alts to avoid the negative consequence of security status. Fair enough.
What consequences? The gankers just travel in pods, use neutral Orcas to get in ganking ships and warp straight to their next target. Trading, hauling, ISK making ist done with neutral alts. There are no real consequences for gankers.
Carebear here, you are also free to use an alt to hunt them down with little consequence, if it's flashy red shoot it, most of if not all code is flashy red in a ship or pod alike. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15827
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 12:38:40 -
[26] - Quote
Is this another on of those situations where someone thinks they are smarter than than game and has some brilliant sure fire game mechanics changing way to "fix" things that, were it ever to be implemented, would be a terrible game killing disaster that would actually backfire and strengthen the people it was trying to nerf?
If so, then it's right on time, we haven't had one of those in like the last 11 or 12 seconds. I was getting worried. |
Mollie Mormon
Interstellar Consciousness
23
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Posted - 2017.05.16 13:06:39 -
[27] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Is this another on of those situations where someone thinks they are smarter than than game and has some brilliant sure fire game mechanics changing way to "fix" things that, were it ever to be implemented, would be a terrible game killing disaster that would actually backfire and strengthen the people it was trying to nerf?
If so, then it's right on time, we haven't had one of those in like the last 11 or 12 seconds. I was getting worried. No one cries louder than people like you that desperately want to keep the current system in place.
High Sec. is broken...has been for years.
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Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
4205
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 13:16:48 -
[28] - Quote
I just remembered why I stay out of GD...
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15827
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 13:21:05 -
[29] - Quote
Mollie Mormon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Is this another on of those situations where someone thinks they are smarter than than game and has some brilliant sure fire game mechanics changing way to "fix" things that, were it ever to be implemented, would be a terrible game killing disaster that would actually backfire and strengthen the people it was trying to nerf?
If so, then it's right on time, we haven't had one of those in like the last 11 or 12 seconds. I was getting worried. No one cries louder than people like you that desperately want to keep the current system in place.
High Sec. is broken...has been for years.
You think....I.....Jenn aSide....wants to keep HiGH SEC .....the way it is.....
LMAO. Someone tell him, I'm too busy laughing my guts out in real life. No really, I think something is wrong, be back after a bio break.
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
368
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Posted - 2017.05.16 14:42:49 -
[30] - Quote
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:Destruction shouldn't be what draws players out of High Sec, more Wealth and Progress should be. High Sec is meant to be safer, but much less rewarding, like very little reward at all. It doesn't work like that tho. You can very easily make a LOT of money in High Sec. Just AFK Mining can get you a lot of money. This is why CODE targets Miners, to get them to stop doing that. Uhm, have you done any mining recently? Nowadays most of the minerals come from Rorquals which mine as much as 4 exhumers. Players multibox ~10 Rorquals in nullsec and earn billions per hour.
Highsec ores are almost worthless now which means that with AFK mining in highsec you can earn only ~10mill per hour.
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote: But that can easily change by having the Scematics switch, needing a lot more minerals only found in Low, Null, or WH, and needing less resources from High Sec. Force people to venture out to make money. Not to run away from exploiting gankers using the system to bully the players into doing what they want.
Thats exactly what CCP has been doing in the last 6-7 years.
- data and relic sites in high - worthless since the exploration expansion
- ghost sites - removed from high
- static ice belts (were great for AFK mining) - removed
- AFK mission running - almost impossible after rat AI buff
- high sec ores - 2 indirect nerfs because nullsec ores got buffed 2 times
- mining in high - huge indirect nerf with the Rorqual buff
- industry in high - many small nerfs because nullsec industry got many buffs to be more self sufficient
Meanwhile the ISK faucets in null sec explode ... http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Mar_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Mar_2017/9a1_faucets_breakdown.png |
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Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
46
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Posted - 2017.05.16 14:59:16 -
[31] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:It's against the Eve ToS to biomass ganking alts to avoid the negative consequence of security status. Fair enough.
Why is it OK to biomass trade hub spammer bots to avoid the negative consequence of being blocked by everyone? Seems to be inconsistent with point one.
wait really? link to any official post which states this? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15829
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Posted - 2017.05.16 15:07:39 -
[32] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote:RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:Destruction shouldn't be what draws players out of High Sec, more Wealth and Progress should be. High Sec is meant to be safer, but much less rewarding, like very little reward at all. It doesn't work like that tho. You can very easily make a LOT of money in High Sec. Just AFK Mining can get you a lot of money. This is why CODE targets Miners, to get them to stop doing that. Uhm, have you done any mining recently? Nowadays most of the minerals come from Rorquals which mine as much as 4 exhumers. Players multibox ~10 Rorquals in nullsec and earn billions per hour. Highsec ores are almost worthless now which means that with AFK mining in highsec you can earn only ~10mill per hour. RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote: But that can easily change by having the Scematics switch, needing a lot more minerals only found in Low, Null, or WH, and needing less resources from High Sec. Force people to venture out to make money. Not to run away from exploiting gankers using the system to bully the players into doing what they want.
Thats exactly what CCP has been doing in the last 5-6 years.
- data and relic sites in high - worthless since the exploration expansion
- ghost sites - removed from high
- static ice belts (were great for AFK mining) - removed
- AFK mission running - pretty much impossible after rat AI buff (AFAIK)
- high sec ores - 2 indirect nerfs because nullsec ores got buffed 2 times
- mining in high - huge indirect nerf with the Rorqual buff
- industry in high - many small nerfs because nullsec industry got buffs to be more self sufficient and margins are smaller nowadays
- etc
Meanwhile, the ISK faucets in null sec explode ... http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Mar_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Mar_2017/9a1_faucets_breakdown.png
It's funny because for years some of us tried to explain how high sec was too good income wise , so much so that you had lots of null sec people plant alts there to make money from things like incursions, SOE missions and burner blitzing (it still is btw, you cannot make a reliable 200 mil per hour with a single subcap in sov null space with the one exception being buying maze escalations in guristas space).
So what did the Defenders of High Sec on this board say? They said "if the problem is null income isn't competitive with high sec income, buff null, don't nerf my high sec income". It was a dumb and tone deaf thing to say, but they said it, all the time.
CCP buffed null like they said, with Rorquals and the changes to carriers/fighters that made super capitals re-take the throne as the best NPC killing ships in the game (something CCP once fixed when they fixed tracking titans and forsaken hubs only to unfix with super carriers).
And still high sec folk complain. High sec posters on this board WANTED this outcome, why be mad about it now?
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Mollie Mormon
Interstellar Consciousness
24
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Posted - 2017.05.16 15:31:06 -
[33] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:High sec posters on this board WANTED this outcome... =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô Imagine, if you will, a World where you actually know what you're talking about. =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
369
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Posted - 2017.05.16 15:38:58 -
[34] - Quote
Mollie Mormon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:High sec posters on this board WANTED this outcome... =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô Imagine, if you will, a World where you actually know what you're talking about. =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô Huh? I doubt "high sec posters" asked for continuous nerfs to highsec in favor of nullsec. |
Yebo Lakatosh
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
286
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Posted - 2017.05.16 16:11:15 -
[35] - Quote
Mollie Mormon wrote:No one cries louder than people like you that desperately want to keep the current system in place.
High Sec. is broken...has been for years. You have yet to detail here in what way Highsec is broken, and how should it be molded into the joyful place that every player should love.
Do your comments mean that you side with Miss Shiratori, who is convinced that a -lot- of money can be made by AFK mining in Highsec, just ganking needs One More NerfGäó, because it's an awful double-standard that they can just hop into a shiny new ship after it's destroyed, while the miners are 'forced' to replace their loss?
Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15831
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Posted - 2017.05.16 16:25:34 -
[36] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote:Mollie Mormon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:High sec posters on this board WANTED this outcome... =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô Imagine, if you will, a World where you actually know what you're talking about. =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô =ƒÉô Huh? I doubt "high sec posters" asked for continuous nerfs to highsec in favor of nullsec.
I'm sorry, I thought I wrote what I did in English. But let me try again.
First off, those things you called nerfs were not nerfs. The change to NPC AI affected everyone, the exploration expansion hit EVERYONE hard. and the 'buffs' to null sec mining and industry reinforces my point.
For years, when we said that things in high sec were too good (not for high sec residents, but for null sec alts), we were told by many a high sec poster "LEAVE HIGH SEC ALONE, JUST BUFF NULL". CCP (directly and indirectly) did this, and now here you are complaining about null sec's affect on high sec.
The old saying that applies here is "be careful what you wish for" (not you personally, I'm talking to all those short sighted high sec people who said i just wanted to see high sec nerfed to line my own space pockets).
And to answer your question, yes they did ask for this. Just a couple of examples of what I had to read over and over again since 2011:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=150359
http://eve-search.com/thread/380155-1/page/all#11 |
Skorpynekomimi
673
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 16:34:06 -
[37] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:People read local chat in trade hubs? Interesting...
I like to see all the scams and banter. Plus I'm a sucker for having random conversations with random people in local.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11039
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Posted - 2017.05.16 16:46:37 -
[38] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: And to answer your question, yes they did ask for this. Just a few examples of what I had to read over and over again since 2011:
You didn't have to read anything.
You like reading it. It gives you something to rant about and validates your own bizarre worldview.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15831
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Posted - 2017.05.16 17:24:57 -
[39] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: And to answer your question, yes they did ask for this. Just a few examples of what I had to read over and over again since 2011:
You didn't have to read anything. You like reading it. It gives you something to rant about and validates your own bizarre worldview. Mr Epeen Ok, what exactly is 'bizarre' about what I'm saying (in this case, pointing out that people should be careful what they wish for, which is an old saying, I did not come up with it)? You felt the need to reply, so let's talk about it, or are you just trolling as usual? |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11040
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Posted - 2017.05.16 17:34:34 -
[40] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: so let's talk about it You spelled argue wrong.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15832
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Posted - 2017.05.16 17:45:30 -
[41] - Quote
As I suspected. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
28234
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Posted - 2017.05.16 18:33:20 -
[42] - Quote
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:That's kinda funny you know. Concord protecting the stations and gates, but will happily let Criminals and those with low standing use the gates and dock at stations. Wish they would fix that. Criminals should be shot on sight by Concord and barred from any stations in High and Low sec. Let them run around in Null and WH space. And Negative Standing should bar you from being able to use Concord's gates to get into the High Sec areas, not just be a little slap on the wrist. Criminal flag and outlaw status, know the difference before posting on this subject further.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
122
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Posted - 2017.05.16 19:29:04 -
[43] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
For years, when we said that things in high sec were too good (not for high sec residents, but for null sec alts), we were told by many a high sec poster "LEAVE HIGH SEC ALONE, JUST BUFF NULL". CCP (directly and indirectly) did this, and now here you are complaining about null sec's affect on high sec.
The ore issue is transient anyway, ie its difficult for a balancing pass on rorquals because (a) the buff was done against a rise in mineral consumption for citadels and ecs, and (b) ultimately mining capacity will have to be divided between mining moons. asteroids and ice, where it is only currently divided amongst the latter 2, towers automatically do the first task at the moment.
You'd also hope that the sane highsec miner has to recognize that there will be opportunity to day trip lowsec and null, quite possibly with organized protection, ie there is a massive buff coming for all miners ahead.
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virm pasuul
Viziam Amarr Empire
431
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Posted - 2017.05.16 21:08:21 -
[44] - Quote
As the OP I'd just like to state that I wholeheartedly support what Code stands for and how they go about putting it into practice. Their results speak for themselves. That they generate so many unceasing tears is a testamnet to their effectiveness. Long may they continue.
This thread wasn't about Code. Code play within the rules and accept the consequeces of their actions like adults not children. Drunken adults maybe :) I was just highlighting what seems to be a discrepancy in how the rules are enforced.
I wouldn't mind the trade hub scamming so much if it was not such a mire of unoriginal copy and paste. It's not that's it's scamming or spam, it's that it's boring spam I object to. |
virm pasuul
Viziam Amarr Empire
431
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 21:12:58 -
[45] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote:virm pasuul wrote:It's against the Eve ToS to biomass ganking alts to avoid the negative consequence of security status. Fair enough.
Why is it OK to biomass trade hub spammer bots to avoid the negative consequence of being blocked by everyone? Seems to be inconsistent with point one.
wait really? link to any official post which states this?
First part or second part? |
virm pasuul
Viziam Amarr Empire
431
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 21:17:46 -
[46] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:[img]https://media3.giphy.com/media/zfuOq2rFBE7Kg/giphy.gif[/img]
I would just like to compliment ISD Dorrin Barstorlode on the lightness of his moderate touch :) I assume I am allowed to say that? |
Shawn en Tilavine
Knights-of-Joo Reverberation Project
7
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Posted - 2017.05.16 21:27:03 -
[47] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:[img]https://media3.giphy.com/media/zfuOq2rFBE7Kg/giphy.gif[/img] I would just like to compliment ISD Dorrin Barstorlode on the lightness of his moderate touch :) I assume I am allowed to say that?
Nope, can't do it. Discussing forum moderation is a violation of the forum TOS.
Topic Locked!!
LOL Sorry, just kidding. Honest!! Couldn't help myself.
"The world ain't fair, there is no Santa Claus, and not everyone gets a F'n trophy just for showing up. Welcome to the real world. Welcome to Eve."
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Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
691
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Posted - 2017.05.17 00:22:48 -
[48] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: And to answer your question, yes they did ask for this. Just a few examples of what I had to read over and over again since 2011:
You didn't have to read anything. You like reading it. It gives you something to rant about and validates your own bizarre worldview. Mr Epeen
You mean more bizarre than yours? Impossible!
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Ashiri Hareka
Paper Cats
8
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Posted - 2017.05.17 00:42:44 -
[49] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote: I wouldn't mind the trade hub scamming so much if it was not such a mire of unoriginal copy and paste. It's not that's it's scamming or spam, it's that it's boring spam I object to.
I'm still left wondering what is so magical about the range of numbers from 9.1 to 9.8 billion that the hangar clearances are priced at. Sometimes it is fun to jest in local about the silly scams.
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