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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Cade Windstalker
1554
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Posted - 2017.06.03 23:07:22 -
[571] - Quote
Afropty wrote:BUT WE PAY FOR A SUBSCRIPTION WE DESERVE NO CHANGE...... AT LEAST I PAY THE ANUAL SUBSCRIPTION
Geez, fix your caps lock key.
But yeah, no, everyone pays for their subscription one way or another, no one gets to dictate what the devs do no matter how much money they spend on the game.
Besides an oversupply of minerals hurts some players and helps others, so saying that "we deserve no change" is just ignorant and ridiculous.
Thead Enco wrote:Hi Fozzie
Nope, guess again
(hint, it's the name next to this post)
Seriously though, I'm not some mouthpiece for CCP or whatever the stuff you've been snorting has convinced you I am. I'm someone who can read a graph and a supply curve, that's all. Anyone who can do either of those should have been able to look at last month's MER and come to the conclusion that unless production dropped (unlikely) there were going to be more Rorqual/Mining tweaks.
Abadayos wrote:Actually it does impact on total yield if you do it in a time scale. Isk generation is calculated by 'ticks' (20 minute payout blocks) or ISK Per Hour (60 minute blocks). Travel time is exactly that...time. 12.5% speed reduction is (very rough napkin math out of my butthole)say 3% yield reduction per hour, ontop of the flat 9% actual yield reduction per hour, we are at minimum looking at 10-12% total yield reduction, depending on how close you hump your rocks.
One time the drone could be 500 meters from you when they finish their cycle, the next it could be on the other side of the rock at 4km from you. The first is (at base 175m/s from what I remember seeing on teh SiSi pic) pretty much instant dock and relaunch. The 4km distant one has got 10-15 seconds of travel time. Split the difference and it's 7 seconds per cycle to either return, or go to an asteroid, 14 seconds round trip. Cycle time is what? 60 seconds now? So your looking at 22-25% extra non-mining time assuming your humping the rock, on average. So for your 60 minutes mining...your only mining 45 minutes and 15 minutes is travel time. Thus travel time and drone speed DOES in fact factor into yield indirectly
I never said that the travel time didn't impact the practical yield, I said it doesn't impact it in any kind of easily predictable fashion, and that the minimum potential impact is zero if the asteroid is sized such that the drones are always within drop-off range when they finish their cycle.
Your math there is questionable at best, because in practice the drones are going to end up at a distance based more on your positioning and the size of the rock, not some easily calculated range.
Also Excavators gain the effects of Drone Navigation as well as the speed bonus from the Mining Core, so the actual speed of the drones ends up being around 500m/s now and around 450 after the patch, higher if you add in Drone Navigation Computers in exchange for less tank. |
SoulRipper666
Blue-Fire Great Blue Balls of Fire
43
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Posted - 2017.06.04 02:31:22 -
[572] - Quote
Quote:"HEY KIDS, HERE IS A SUPER OP TOY TO PLAY WITH, BUT FIRST YOU BETTER GO BUY SOME SKILL INJECTORS..."
"JUST KIDDING"
*NERF* *NERF* *NERF*
"WE HAD NO IDEA THIS WOULD HAPPEN"
-CCP
Blue-Fire Best Fire
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captwolf
Goldwolf inc
2
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Posted - 2017.06.04 03:17:34 -
[573] - Quote
Its funny i have been reading alot of these posts and have come to a conclusion. I may be wrong here , but it seems like everyone is isk hungry and if they cant make a billion isk an hour then the game is ****. I remamber when if you made a million a week you was doing great now if your not doing 100m /hr your ****. with all the changes i see EvE just becomeing anther of the 1000's of give me everything now games i dont want to have to earn it. I have 120million SP i got from PLAYING off and on for 7 years but there is 2 day old pilots with 150 million just because he can buy 200 X 500 plex now . now you complaining that mining is getting nurfed again its still alot better than it was when all you had was just belts even in null.
any way sorry for the bad spelling and grammer
CaptWolf
PS just work at it |
Curant Thanger
Kontained Chaos Blades of Grass
3
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Posted - 2017.06.04 03:24:56 -
[574] - Quote
Kaidokpi wrote:
A 5 slot rorq can tank 10k dps sustained, and has a PANIC module that literally makes it invulnerable for several minutes. If that's not enough tank/time to save you then it's highly doubtful a few more mid slots and rigs will make a difference. Also, if you're flying an 8 billion isk ship that must be sieged to work properly without a support fleet you may want to re-evaluate whether or not you should be flying a rorq.
I do agree that excavator prices need to be significantly cheaper to match their reduced yield, or alternatively buff the yield on t2 drones to provide a viable low cost option.
They could make meta 1 and t2 excavators to add cost and yield variations, might fix some of the issues.
As for the question of rorqual fitting, depends on the situation you may find yourself in. Tackled by Inner Hell for example, I'd much rather have the extra tank, and form up time varies greatly in most alliances based on any number of issues including time zones, active fleets, and deployments, I guess I'm rorqual mining with the institutional paranoia that's so common in EVE... |
NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
226
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Posted - 2017.06.04 05:01:47 -
[575] - Quote
Quote:About 9% less yield for Ore Excavators 12.5% lower speed for Ore Excavators
Ok, i am sure there are reasons for yield decrease, but lowering speed of the drones? Are you seriously high on crack? They are ridiculously slow and they are almost USELESS on large radius asteroids like once they finish mining, they are freaking 20km away from rorqual. Unless you develeope a mechanic that drones will not go further away from rorqual, fine, but dont lower their speed. :/
Tbh, they should have triple or quadruple of the speed bonus when using industrial core over t2 mining drone. :/ |
Zetakya
Echelon Research Goonswarm Federation
18
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Posted - 2017.06.04 07:52:09 -
[576] - Quote
Philip Shazih wrote:Good job on killing mining for new players. Large rorq mining fleets will just jump from system to system. The newbies in procs on the other hand will have a much harder time finding ore.
Great job killing mining for newbees.
Thanks fozzie. What the boss said. This won't affect me - I can load my Rorq up with Hulks in the Ship Bay, pilot my Hulk guys there in Ventures and Cyno the Rorq right into the belt. The guys it screws over are the new bees. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3742
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Posted - 2017.06.04 08:29:21 -
[577] - Quote
Zetakya wrote: The guys it screws over are the new bees.
Then your leaders should take actions against you for screwing up the new "bees".
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Zetakya
Echelon Research Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2017.06.04 10:30:19 -
[578] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Zetakya wrote: The guys it screws over are the new bees.
Then your leaders should take actions against you for screwing up the new "bees". It's :CCP: that's screwing over the new bees, not our members.
When the game mechanics are fundamentally biased against gate-only miners and in favour of Jump-capable miners... it's the new players who are getting shafted by the game devs. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3742
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Posted - 2017.06.04 10:49:08 -
[579] - Quote
Zetakya wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Zetakya wrote: The guys it screws over are the new bees.
Then your leaders should take actions against you for screwing up the new "bees". It's :CCP: that's screwing over the new bees, not our members. When the game mechanics are fundamentally biased against gate-only miners and in favour of Jump-capable miners... it's the new players who are getting shafted by the game devs. It's up to you as a player organisation to support your newbros and find ways to involve them. If I remember correctly there are things like jump and Titan bridges, capable of transporting any sub-cap ship ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Cismet
Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council.
80
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Posted - 2017.06.04 11:11:39 -
[580] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Zetakya wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Zetakya wrote: The guys it screws over are the new bees.
Then your leaders should take actions against you for screwing up the new "bees". It's :CCP: that's screwing over the new bees, not our members. When the game mechanics are fundamentally biased against gate-only miners and in favour of Jump-capable miners... it's the new players who are getting shafted by the game devs. It's up to you as a player organisation to support your newbros and find ways to involve them. If I remember correctly there are things like jump and Titan bridges, capable of transporting any sub-cap ship ...
Again, I don't often agree with Goonswarm (I'm starting to sound like a broken record), but are you actually saying that it's the responsibility of Goons to find a way to break a developer-induced bias against new bees to get them ISK? You might as well say they should just split their money with the new bros and have done with it. Your argument isn't reasonable. You might as well say that I shouldn't be allowed to use my level V skills to apply more DPS because it's not fair that new bros cannot apply as much DPS as I can.
The difference is that in the latter example it's a function of the game mechanics that is the result of correct progression in-game, whereas in the former it's deliberate changes by the dev team to a functioning economy that have massively disadvantaged newer players. |
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3743
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Posted - 2017.06.04 11:46:31 -
[581] - Quote
CCP nerfed a) an "end-game" playstyle and b) the resource distribution of sov generated ore anomalies in favor of less density. I'm failing to see the bias against new players, because a) Rorquals are not available to new players and b) how and where the available ore is harvested is totally in the hands of the players. So if veterans do not want to give new players a share, it has nothing to do with CCP mechanics.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Fayrouze
Artemis Incorporation
2
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Posted - 2017.06.04 14:20:41 -
[582] - Quote
Currently we are showing a lot of _very predictable feedback_ on what they are doing. Having the perspective of having done this forever, CCP looks at what their players do and less of what they say.
"Innovation" takes time to set in, remember. /sarcasm
The problem here is that CCP is punishing adaptation. Players are using tools that CCP sold them to play around in the sandbox. Now, because some guys are better at using those tools than others, CCP is taking the tools' efficacy away from everybody.
At this rate, it seems that they will not rest until they've balanced the landscape into one flat, monotone plane. The well-off people in large entities can cope with these changes happening at this rate. The people most stunted by this kind of rapid cycling in ships' roles and capabilities are the small entities and the space poor.
If all changes and "balancing" are driven ONLY by the major blocs, then CCP may as well add that as the last step in the NPE - "Now, go join one of the big player factions. You won't accomplish much unless you are under their umbrella. You are here as fodder, know your place." |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
484
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Posted - 2017.06.04 16:57:29 -
[583] - Quote
nerfing everyone just to curb one group of players does not seem to be the way to go here
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Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
226
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Posted - 2017.06.04 17:29:35 -
[584] - Quote
The only part of this that hurts all players is the excavator nerfs. The spawn time is nothing more than an annoyance to smaller groups two can jump between enormous and colossal or between two systems and be fine. If you think this will have a larger impact on small groups more than say 50 man rorq fleets then you are sadly mistaken. It's definitely a nerf intended to curtail the massive amounts of minerals these fleets of rorqs (it's not just goons) are pumping into the system which is in itself a good thing. Though I would have personally just done the spawn timers and left it at that. I'm not sure I see a problem with excavators at all atm.
I'm still of the mind that they need to take a look at rorq build costs since their yeild is being nerfed yet again, rather the excavators since those are what actually keep getting made more and more vulnerable. Time on ROI just keeps getting longer and longer with each passing nerf and that does hurt the small guy more than larger entities since they are the most likely to lose it. |
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics Amarrian Volunteer Defence Alliance
109
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Posted - 2017.06.04 18:36:27 -
[585] - Quote
when you nerf rorq mining ability by 30%
so why do not you boost rorq mining boosting by 30% ? ... to boost subcaps around it?
sry for my English :-(
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marly cortez
Mercurialis Inc. The Bastion
184
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Posted - 2017.06.04 22:25:48 -
[586] - Quote
While I can understand CCP trying to massage Ore outputs to cover there original mistakes made while trying to mess with the markets, This latest 'Manipulation' smacks more of sour grapes on there part than any real move to slow down output.
Why will this heavy handed 'Nerf' not have the effect CCP believes it's entitled too, 'Fozzie Sov' and all that brings with it, the general ham fisted homogenisation of the Eve environment leaving players with little impetus to fight anyone for anything other than ***** and giggles but more importantly CCP's constant attempts to force players to play this game as group exercise, a game that from it's inception was designed as one of solo enterprise and acquisition, by attacking every form of solo player generated content the game had to offer other than griefing miners.
This is why this Nerf will fail, why the blue doughnuts still exist, why it is so difficult for players to migrate out of empire in numbers that would make a difference, Why huge swathes of the Eve environment are currently almost utterly empty in terms of significant numbers and ultimately why your retention figures are so abysmally low.
Stop it.
Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.
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Gulmuk
Ceptacemia DARKNESS.
6
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Posted - 2017.06.04 23:13:58 -
[587] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We are also making some more small adjustments to the Excavator drones themselves. In June the changes are: - About 9% less yield for Ore Excavators
- 12.5% lower speed for Ore Excavators
- About 11% longer cycle time for Ice Excavators
- 10% lower speed for Ice Excavators
We will continue observing the economy after these changes and making adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
WTS Rorqual... Going to be worthless as an income machine after this.. Pretty much already was, but now a ship that costs 34 times the cost of a Hulk, but yields 1.5 times what a hulk yields. DISCREPANCY!!!
Thanks for kililng the game for me. |
Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
127
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Posted - 2017.06.04 23:15:57 -
[588] - Quote
Gulmuk wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:We are also making some more small adjustments to the Excavator drones themselves. In June the changes are: - About 9% less yield for Ore Excavators
- 12.5% lower speed for Ore Excavators
- About 11% longer cycle time for Ice Excavators
- 10% lower speed for Ice Excavators
We will continue observing the economy after these changes and making adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. WTS Rorqual... Going to be worthless as an income machine after this.. Pretty much already was, but now a ship that costs 34 times the cost of a Hulk, but yields 1.5 times what a hulk yields. DISCREPANCY!!! Thanks for kililng the game for me.
Will buy, 500m isk.
Seriously where and how much
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
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Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
127
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Posted - 2017.06.04 23:23:16 -
[589] - Quote
Fayrouze wrote:Currently we are showing a lot of _very predictable feedback_ on what they are doing. Having the perspective of having done this forever, CCP looks at what their players do and less of what they say.
"Innovation" takes time to set in, remember. /sarcasm
The problem here is that CCP is punishing adaptation. Players are using tools that CCP sold them to play around in the sandbox. Now, because some guys are better at using those tools than others, CCP is taking the tools' efficacy away from everybody.
At this rate, it seems that they will not rest until they've balanced the landscape into one flat, monotone plane. The well-off people in large entities can cope with these changes happening at this rate. The people most stunted by this kind of rapid cycling in ships' roles and capabilities are the small entities and the space poor.
If all changes and "balancing" are driven ONLY by the major blocs, then CCP may as well add that as the last step in the NPE - "Now, go join one of the big player factions. You won't accomplish much unless you are under their umbrella. You are here as fodder, know your place."
You're right of course, they only want all players to actually use sub battlecruisers. This IS cruisers online, don't forget.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
207
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Posted - 2017.06.05 00:08:53 -
[590] - Quote
Just because a feature was launched with certain attributes doesn't mean it will be used exactly as intended. Sometimes players find unexpected usability or undesired amplification of effects that can affect the overall game in detrimental ways.
Emergent game-play isn't always positive or desired.
Sometimes the Devs need to adjust game mechanics when emergent game-play goes outside the expected and or desired.
These "hidden" features or aspects of Eve frequently go by unnoticed or unchanged for years; until one group starts to abuse it on a large scale and noticeably gain some unfair advantage.
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Pimpin Drones
Distant Knight Inc Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1
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Posted - 2017.06.05 02:50:10 -
[591] - Quote
If your going to reduce the mining drones then also reduce the **** cost of them. Let make them do less but cost more! CCP needs nerf the darn cost of the ships and or mining drones. |
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum Evil Monkies Incorporated
186
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Posted - 2017.06.05 08:08:31 -
[592] - Quote
Please leave Fozzie alone!
I think its just BS calling out that this hurts the poor players since poor players wouldn't be flying rorquals by the dozen Poor players would stick it with their procurers or skiffs etc.. Anyone who spent cash for for Plex-Skill injectors to fast track into rorquals wheren't poor then This is more CCP being Robin Hood and stealing from the tax man and giving back some to the less fortunate more or less. |
Orgasmadrone
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
12
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Posted - 2017.06.05 11:04:13 -
[593] - Quote
Naomi Shaishi wrote:Lol, judging by all the salt over here as well as claims of unsubbing - CCP might actually reach part of their goal - increase the mineral prices a bit which for most are like all time low...
The big miners won't add more rorquals because of the new timers - good!
You decrease the yield and make it harder to strip mine with huge rorqual fleets - individual ore prices might actually go up.
Are mineral prices at "an all time low?" - I seem to recall BS's at one time being less than half what they cost now. It was also a very real thing to loot missions to refine for minerals - do you remember drone poo? Those were the times minerals were at an all time low... not sure what exact all time you are talking about? PLease explain. |
Burgein
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2017.06.05 11:58:12 -
[594] - Quote
Must be good since goons are crying, well done CCP! |
alex tow
Real One Corp Axiom Vocation Alliance
2
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Posted - 2017.06.05 12:29:58 -
[595] - Quote
I'm not in Goons and I don't think it's a good idea....10b stationary ship, being an easy target and make less isk than a carrier with more risks (just by loosing one drone you loose HOURS and HOURS of mining profit)....really CCP, please don't do this. |
Cade Windstalker
1561
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Posted - 2017.06.05 12:30:27 -
[596] - Quote
Orgasmadrone wrote:Naomi Shaishi wrote:Lol, judging by all the salt over here as well as claims of unsubbing - CCP might actually reach part of their goal - increase the mineral prices a bit which for most are like all time low...
The big miners won't add more rorquals because of the new timers - good!
You decrease the yield and make it harder to strip mine with huge rorqual fleets - individual ore prices might actually go up. Are mineral prices at "an all time low?" - I seem to recall BS's at one time being less than half what they cost now. It was also a very real thing to loot missions to refine for minerals - do you remember drone poo? Those were the times minerals were at an all time low... not sure what exact all time you are talking about? PLease explain.
Small point of order here. While "all time low" is incorrect mineral prices *are* at a fairly historic low, since the last time they were anywhere near current levels was years ago, and the prices of most other goods haven't dropped along with the mineral prices, making their *value* (as in, worth relative to a basket of other goods in the economy) certainly at an all time low, at least for lower end minerals. |
Orgasmadrone
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
12
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Posted - 2017.06.05 12:48:05 -
[597] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Orgasmadrone wrote:Naomi Shaishi wrote:Lol, judging by all the salt over here as well as claims of unsubbing - CCP might actually reach part of their goal - increase the mineral prices a bit which for most are like all time low...
The big miners won't add more rorquals because of the new timers - good!
You decrease the yield and make it harder to strip mine with huge rorqual fleets - individual ore prices might actually go up. Are mineral prices at "an all time low?" - I seem to recall BS's at one time being less than half what they cost now. It was also a very real thing to loot missions to refine for minerals - do you remember drone poo? Those were the times minerals were at an all time low... not sure what exact all time you are talking about? PLease explain. Small point of order here. While "all time low" is incorrect mineral prices *are* at a fairly historic low, since the last time they were anywhere near current levels was years ago, and the prices of most other goods haven't dropped along with the mineral prices, making their *value* (as in, worth relative to a basket of other goods in the economy) certainly at an all time low, at least for lower end minerals.
Do you mean lowend HS mineral costs or lowend nullsec mineral costs? I am looking at HS minerals and they seem unaffected except for mexallon which is actually increasing in value - help me understand your point you are trying to make? |
Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
127
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Posted - 2017.06.05 12:59:13 -
[598] - Quote
Janeway84 wrote:Please leave Fozzie alone! I think its just BS calling out that this hurts the poor players since poor players wouldn't be flying rorquals by the dozen Poor players would stick it with their procurers or skiffs etc.. Anyone who spent cash for Plex-Skill injectors to fast track into rorquals wheren't poor then This is more CCP being Robin Hood and stealing from the tax man and giving back some to the less fortunate more or less. Maybe agree with above poster that the price of mining drones could perhaps be reduced if the stats get hit hard. Though that kind of chance usually takes time before it effects the market anyways.
This has nothing to do with and "Robin Hood-ing" whatsoever, especially since the tax man is CCP, so you are misinformed.
It's not CCP that will "lower the cost" of the Excavator Drones, as they are not the ones selling them. The price is determined by the scarcity of the components to manufacture them. That's the drone regions people I would imagine being market savvy.
The only way CCP can lower the cost of drones is by reworking the manufacturing process, so if you are going to be making suggestions, please understand what you are talking about.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
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Lukka
30
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Posted - 2017.06.05 13:20:19 -
[599] - Quote
Just a quick 2 cents worth:
TL/DR: goons will continue mining in Rorquals, the rest of Eve will likely move to alternatives.
For those of you claiming it will hit Goons hard, I will argue it won't. Goons are far more capable of defending their Rorquals than any other group in EVE. With such a concentration of players in a single region, they can hit drop an attacker with whatever it takes in just a couple of minutes. Rorquals are capable of semi-AFK mining making them a perfect choice in a safe environment. The guy with 50 rorquals will still have 50 rorquals. He won't be mining quite so much ore, but he'll still make a solid living (though pay the price in RL electricity costs).
As for the rest of you, at 1.5 times the mining capacity of a Hulk, Rorquals make little economic sense due to their high investment and risk associated. The vast majority of you will need to consider moving to smaller ships or face economic ruin. |
smit jion
Hax Corporation
0
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Posted - 2017.06.05 14:58:38 -
[600] - Quote
You freak ****** then learn skills boosting prey. Remove mining ******* and make a clean ******* pvp. "DEBILES TO PULL" |
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