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Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
29
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 16:35:32 -
[1] - Quote
Faction Warfare is supposed to be the great stepping stone of PvP.
There's novice gates that allow frigs and faction frigs.
Small gates that allow frigs, faction frigs, and destroyers. (no t3)
And medium gates that allow frigs, faction frigs, destroyers, cruisers, and faction cruisers. (no t3)
This works great. Alphas and new players can afford the 1mil destroyer/frig hulls and 7mil cruiser hulls with great insurance.
Hell, I can even kill it alpha with this build (no factions, of course -- it can hold its own verses tech 2 guns though):
[Cormorant, PvE Corm] Damage Control I Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer
5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier Alumel-Wired Enduring Sensor Booster
150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Tungsten Charge S x1000 Lead Charge S x3000 Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S x1280 Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S x600 Targeting Range Script x1 Scan Resolution Script x1
The problem that comes in is this: Faction Ships totally wreck their non-faction counter-parts. Faction ships are substantially more expensive (hull), 12 - 38 times more expensive
Alphas and players new to PvP do not want to sink in tens of millions of isk+ in their first few PvP experiences just to be competitive; and they shouldn't have to.
Faction warfare was not designed in a 'seal club' mentality, that is why the gates are strictly structured like that.
Allowing faction hulls completely defeats the purpose; and insurance won't cover a large fraction of them like it will for T1 hulls.
I've been playing for 10 years and ISK is no issue for me, I could seal club if I wanted, but I want to improve the game.
I've got friends that just picked up the game and FW is the best way to introduce them to solo/small gang PvP -- and love them as I do, I don't want to have to pay for all their adventures because they can't afford the necessary faction fit.
Without faction frigs allowed in NOVICE, you wont have an 60mil hull garmur taking on a merlin or coercer. It is just stupid. A garmur can easily solo a thorax or a vexor.
TL;DR Get rid of faction hulls for FW; especially the Garmur (it just wrecks) [60mil hull cost]
Devils Advoce: Please name 1 good reason why Faction Hulls should be allowed in a linear-learning PLEX'd system like faction warfare for PvP. (because I want one does not count)
This is an EASY fix for CCP to make and would GREATLY improve the game. The amount of newer PvP players and alpha that would funnel into FW would give it new life.
Thank you for reading,
Desmios |
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
659
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 17:37:35 -
[2] - Quote
Remove Faction from Faction warfare.... Could it even be called Faction warfare after that? Maybe rename it to t1 warfare and restrict t2 modules too.
Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
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Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
692
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 17:41:38 -
[3] - Quote
1 good reason. Here you go. Because faction warfare is a good stepping stone in pvp. And faction ships are a reality of pvp at any scale. Yes they cost more, but they offer considerable advantages. Same could be said of tech 2 weapons and ships. Should those be locked out as well? Why don't we just restrict novice plex to rookie ships with civilian mods? Why should faction ships be the arbitrary cutoff? |
Netan MalDoran
Planet Squanch
288
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 17:46:24 -
[4] - Quote
Noooo, I like my Faction Comet with the police skin! ***-*** militia here to ruin your day!
And the navy comet is a good entry faction ship, powerful but not too expensive.
"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!
Falcon's truth
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Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 18:47:05 -
[5] - Quote
Perhaps instead of acting all elitist..
We could maybe "look" into the idea of implementing a rookie and more noobfriendly side to FW pvp?
Not necessarly by means of new gates, but I dont know, be open at least ?
|
April rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 20:09:22 -
[6] - Quote
Goe Rilla wrote:Perhaps instead of acting all elitist..
We could maybe "look" into the idea of implementing a rookie and more noobfriendly side to FW pvp?
Not necessarly by means of new gates, but I dont know, be open at least ?
Welll.... I'm not in FW but looking at what i know FW is already very "rookie and noobfriendly": - gated complexes - easy and some time almost AFK money - zero entry level, ISK-wise and SP-wise - some protection in high-sec (not CONCORD but still!) - safety of assets since citadels - i forgot something? |
Don Pera Saissore
151
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 20:38:53 -
[7] - Quote
The best thing about fw plexes is you can choose whether you wanna fight or run |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
701
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 21:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:Faction Warfare is supposed to be the great stepping stone of PvP.
There's novice gates that allow frigs and faction frigs.
Small gates that allow frigs, faction frigs, and destroyers. (no t3)
And medium gates that allow frigs, faction frigs, destroyers, cruisers, and faction cruisers. (no t3)
This works great. Alphas and new players can afford the 1mil destroyer/frig hulls and 7mil cruiser hulls with great insurance.
Hell, I can even kill it alpha with this build (no factions, of course -- it can hold its own verses tech 2 guns though):
[Cormorant, PvE Corm] Damage Control I Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer
5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier Alumel-Wired Enduring Sensor Booster
150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I 150mm Compressed Coil Gun I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Tungsten Charge S x1000 Lead Charge S x3000 Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S x1280 Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S x600 Targeting Range Script x1 Scan Resolution Script x1
The problem that comes in is this: Faction Ships totally wreck their non-faction counter-parts. Faction ships are substantially more expensive (hull), 12 - 38 times more expensive
Alphas and players new to PvP do not want to sink in tens of millions of isk+ in their first few PvP experiences just to be competitive; and they shouldn't have to.
Faction warfare was not designed in a 'seal club' mentality, that is why the gates are strictly structured like that.
Allowing faction hulls completely defeats the purpose; and insurance won't cover a large fraction of them like it will for T1 hulls.
I've been playing for 10 years and ISK is no issue for me, I could seal club if I wanted, but I want to improve the game.
I've got friends that just picked up the game and FW is the best way to introduce them to solo/small gang PvP -- and love them as I do, I don't want to have to pay for all their adventures because they can't afford the necessary faction fit.
Without faction frigs allowed in NOVICE, you wont have an 60mil hull garmur taking on a merlin or coercer. It is just stupid. A garmur can easily solo a thorax or a vexor.
TL;DR Get rid of faction hulls for FW; especially the Garmur (it just wrecks) [60mil hull cost]
Devils Advoce: Please name 1 good reason why Faction Hulls should be allowed in a linear-learning PLEX'd system like faction warfare for PvP. (because I want one does not count)
This is an EASY fix for CCP to make and would GREATLY improve the game. The amount of newer PvP players and alpha that would funnel into FW would give it new life.
Thank you for reading,
Desmios
No.
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
3119
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 21:35:09 -
[9] - Quote
get some friends, 50m in t1 frigs kicks the crap out of 50m in pirate frigs. Also navy ships are typically reasonably priced in the 10-15mil range for the hull and are mainly supplied by FW. Seems like it would be silly to restrict one of the main FW rewards from participating in FW. Also if you are in the plex you should be able to see a faction frig coming on dscan and get out before it becomes a threat.
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
627
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 00:26:18 -
[10] - Quote
Get some friends and zerg rush that faction frigate with 50-100 rookie ships.
"A flock of Crows can take down an Eagle" -Someone
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Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 00:58:40 -
[11] - Quote
You all missed the entirety of the post; except one person.
"Get a faction frig -- then you can kill faction frigs" Really?
"It cant be called faction warfare without faction ships, and you USE 200k of faction ammo, which is the same as a 16mil faction hull, soooooo... you are a hypocrite" Yup. They totally named it 'faction warfare' because they intended faction hulls to be fighting each other. It has nothing to do with the 4 main game FACTIONS. And yup, using faction antimatter is basically the same thing as being in a faction hull.
"get some friends in t1 hulls and **** the factions"
*THE ENTIRE POINT HAS BEEN MISSED*
FW is supposed to be an outlet to do NONE OF THOSE THINGS.
You are SUPPOSED to be able to hope into a T1 hull with meta4/5 fittings and be competitive. You are SUPPOSED to be solo or just meeting up with whoever shows up as 'in militia' in local.
WHY would you deny new players a great learning opportunity just to say 'git gud'?
We get it! You have hundreds of millions of isk to buy faction navy comets to lose 3 to 4 times a day without a dent in your wallet. Awesome!
YOU AREN'T WHO FACTION WARFARE IS MADE FOR.
Faction warfare is made for new players who want to learn PvP and "getting wrecked by more expensive ships is like real PvP" MAKES NO SENSE.
How are you supposed to learn any PvP skills when you are getting facemelted and constantly demoralized?
WE GET IT, YOU ARE MAD L33T, NOOBS need to GIT GUD or GO HOME.
This isn't ABOUT YOU.
It is about the longevity of the game and having a GREAT mechanic for new players to learn PVP with little risk.
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Orlacc
959
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 01:37:17 -
[12] - Quote
OP wants all to be Alpha
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 01:44:43 -
[13] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:OP wants all to be Alpha
OP has been playing 10 years and wants what is best for the game so it is still around in another 10.
Not sure why you say OP wants all to be alpha. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
696
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 01:46:44 -
[14] - Quote
They can learn pvp risking as much or as little as they want. Fact is that REAL pvp isn't honorable 1v1 at the sun in perfectly matched ships. That is the exception rather than the rule. Which has always been that if you find yourself in a fair fight then someone has screwed up. Can't outgun them then outnumber them. Get some friends and roam as a group. That faction frig is gonna look a lot better on your KB than your t1 will on theirs. |
Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 01:49:54 -
[15] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:They can learn pvp risking as much or as little as they want. Fact is that REAL pvp isn't honorable 1v1 at the sun in perfectly matched ships. That is the exception rather than the rule. Which has always been that if you find yourself in a fair fight then someone has screwed up. Can't outgun them then outnumber them. Get some friends and roam as a group. That faction frig is gonna look a lot better on your KB than your t1 will on theirs.
FW isn't REAL PvP. It is very tightly controlled and is supposed to be a stepping stone.
Do swordfighters practice with real swords because "that is how it actually is" or do they practice with wooden swords when they first start out?
They practice first with wooden swords.
Your whole idea that faction warfare is supposed to curb stomp new players into learning something is foolish. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
696
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 02:51:54 -
[16] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:They can learn pvp risking as much or as little as they want. Fact is that REAL pvp isn't honorable 1v1 at the sun in perfectly matched ships. That is the exception rather than the rule. Which has always been that if you find yourself in a fair fight then someone has screwed up. Can't outgun them then outnumber them. Get some friends and roam as a group. That faction frig is gonna look a lot better on your KB than your t1 will on theirs. FW isn't REAL PvP. It is very tightly controlled and is supposed to be a stepping stone. Do swordfighters practice with real swords because "that is how it actually is" or do they practice with wooden swords when they first start out? They practice first with wooden swords. Your whole idea that faction warfare is supposed to curb stomp new players into learning something is foolish.
Yes FW has restrictions already. Plex sizes, limits on t3s etc. Yes faction ships give people an advantage. But so do t2 guns. And meta mods. So where does the line get drawn? |
Orlacc
959
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 02:53:48 -
[17] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:Orlacc wrote:OP wants all to be Alpha OP has been playing 10 years and wants what is best for the game so it is still around in another 10. Not sure why you say OP wants all to be alpha.
Cuz I have seen your posts elsewhere whining about Alpha restrictions
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 02:58:52 -
[18] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:Desmios Sanguis wrote:Orlacc wrote:OP wants all to be Alpha OP has been playing 10 years and wants what is best for the game so it is still around in another 10. Not sure why you say OP wants all to be alpha. Cuz I have seen your posts elsewhere whining about Alpha restrictions
please link me one |
Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 02:59:59 -
[19] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Desmios Sanguis wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:They can learn pvp risking as much or as little as they want. Fact is that REAL pvp isn't honorable 1v1 at the sun in perfectly matched ships. That is the exception rather than the rule. Which has always been that if you find yourself in a fair fight then someone has screwed up. Can't outgun them then outnumber them. Get some friends and roam as a group. That faction frig is gonna look a lot better on your KB than your t1 will on theirs. FW isn't REAL PvP. It is very tightly controlled and is supposed to be a stepping stone. Do swordfighters practice with real swords because "that is how it actually is" or do they practice with wooden swords when they first start out? They practice first with wooden swords. Your whole idea that faction warfare is supposed to curb stomp new players into learning something is foolish. Yes FW has restrictions already. Plex sizes, limits on t3s etc. Yes faction ships give people an advantage. But so do t2 guns. And meta mods. So where does the line get drawn?
Faction hulls.
I thought I made that pretty clear in the GET RID OF FACTION HULLS title |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
697
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 03:10:39 -
[20] - Quote
But why stop there? Why prohibit those but not t2 ships? |
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1713
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 03:14:54 -
[21] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:You all missed the entirety of the post; except one person.
"Get a faction frig -- then you can kill faction frigs" Really?
...
*THE ENTIRE POINT HAS BEEN MISSED*
FW is supposed to be an outlet to do NONE OF THOSE THINGS.
You are SUPPOSED to be able to hope into a T1 hull with meta4/5 fittings and be competitive. You are SUPPOSED to be solo or just meeting up with whoever shows up as 'in militia' in local... No one missed anything from what I read of the thread.
You are just crying because FW doesn't fit your narrow expectation, not because it doesn't meet CCP's design intention.
For example: the last two sentences, where do they come from?
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
697
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 03:17:57 -
[22] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Desmios Sanguis wrote:You all missed the entirety of the post; except one person.
"Get a faction frig -- then you can kill faction frigs" Really?
...
*THE ENTIRE POINT HAS BEEN MISSED*
FW is supposed to be an outlet to do NONE OF THOSE THINGS.
You are SUPPOSED to be able to hope into a T1 hull with meta4/5 fittings and be competitive. You are SUPPOSED to be solo or just meeting up with whoever shows up as 'in militia' in local... No one missed anything from what I read of the thread. You are just crying because FW doesn't fit your narrow expectation, not because it doesn't meet CCP's design intention. For example: the last two sentences, where do they come from?
Obviously that's the way it's designed right. I mean that's why FW doesn't allow you to form fleets. And only allows solo pilots to join instead of corporations... oh wait. |
An-Nur
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 03:22:44 -
[23] - Quote
This is just dumb, sorry. The t1 frigs, destroyers, cruisers running around fw way outlay faction. If you can't pop, you can't pop, no matter the bling. |
Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - ChickenSandwich Aporkalypse Now
165
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 03:44:15 -
[24] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:Do swordfighters practice with real swords because "that is how it actually is" or do they practice with wooden swords when they first start out?
I'm pretty sure that they would do so if they could never die, like we capsuleers do in EVE. Also who says that FW is a training for PVP? It is meant to be REAL PVP. If you want some training, ask a friend to duel you on test server, or join the RvB, but you will never learn as much from these training as from real fights. |
Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 06:19:54 -
[25] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:But why stop there? Why prohibit those but not t2 ships?
T2 ships arent allowed in Faction Warfare.
You clear no not know anything about FW.
And since you do not, why are you here posting? |
Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 06:22:01 -
[26] - Quote
An-Nur wrote:This is just dumb, sorry. The t1 frigs, destroyers, cruisers running around fw way outlay faction. If you can't pop, you can't pop, no matter the bling.
You have no idea what you're talkng about.
How can a comet take on a federation navy comet? |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
641
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 06:26:03 -
[27] - Quote
remove faction ships from faction warfare |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
704
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 06:45:50 -
[28] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Faction warfare is made for new players who want to learn PvP and "getting wrecked by more expensive ships is like real PvP" MAKES NO SENSE.
It isn't.
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Don Pera Saissore
152
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 07:05:18 -
[29] - Quote
OP if you are a long time fw player then you should know that t1 frigs and dessies are far more effective than faction and t2 ships simply because they are cost effective |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
1547
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 08:19:16 -
[30] - Quote
people who proclaim 'Don't let faction ships in FW complexes!' for the reason 'It helps newbies!' forget one thing: it doesn't matter.
Why? Because they're new. The guy in his T1 frig will die to the veteran flying a frig in the FW complex, whether that frig is T1 or faction, it doesn't matter, our newbie dies.
What it does however is up the stakes. The newbie with some combat experience can have a chance when he got a faction frig & our vet flies a T1 frigate (for cost efficiency). Now the odds are more equal, gear VS skill.
Eliminate the ability for Faction frigs to enter complexes & newbies stand no chance at all, T1 frig only? Equal gear means skill wins every time, so the veteran will always win.
So by keeping in Faction frigs as allowed ships, you keep the door open to a much larger diversity of engagements & outcomes. That is also far more healthier for PvP then too limited restrictions. This offers also the choice between isk efficiency (fly T1 frigates) and combat efficiency (fly faction frigates)
Extend above to all T1 & faction ship variant complexes.
Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
429
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Posted - 2017.06.04 08:29:11 -
[31] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:1 good reason. Here you go. Because faction warfare is a good stepping stone in pvp. And faction ships are a reality of pvp at any scale. Yes they cost more, but they offer considerable advantages. Same could be said of tech 2 weapons and ships. Should those be locked out as well? Why don't we just restrict novice plex to rookie ships with civilian mods? Why should faction ships be the arbitrary cutoff?
Oh why stop there, also if you have implants you should keep people with those out too.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
641
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 08:40:07 -
[32] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:This isn't ABOUT YOU.
You know, it isn't about you either. There's no good reason faction frigs shouldn't be allowed sInce they do exist and will be used in pvp in all areas of space.
Good luck learning to pvp by just going to FW, all you'll learn is how to 1v1 against ships you choose to fight, but with the crutch of complexes.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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ISD Bubblemoon
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
74
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Posted - 2017.06.04 08:49:59 -
[33] - Quote
Moved to Player Features and Ideas Discussion
ISD Bubblemoon
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
3049
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 09:08:13 -
[34] - Quote
And allow botting Punishers with 5 WCS to roam uninterrupted in their plexes?
Furthermore, the fitting that you used as an example is horrible. Try blasters instead of rails and a scram instead of the web and we are talking. There is no need for range because you just sit on the warp in beacon of the faction warfare plex behind the gate and scram-blap everything that comes in. I have made this experience with my Slicer against a Kestrel already. It is not that hard.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3989
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 09:18:36 -
[35] - Quote
Yet faction ships ate killed by t1 all the time. Each has a counter just like any other ship. In fact some t1 ships simply outperform faction ones when you invest the same amount of isk often times you can greet away with investing less
BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
627
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 09:32:33 -
[36] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:An-Nur wrote:This is just dumb, sorry. The t1 frigs, destroyers, cruisers running around fw way outlay faction. If you can't pop, you can't pop, no matter the bling. You have no idea what you're talkng about. How can a comet take on a federation navy comet?
They would both be federation comets. You are just showing that is you who in fact clearly do not know what you are talking about. T2 are allowed in FW there are sites that allow them in, and the main site for capturing the system has no gate so anything can go there, including capital ships. And plenty of people bring capital ships.
So I'll just repeat the answer. Get Good, Get Friends, Stop Shining, And stop embarrassing yourself by telling the people who clearly do know more than you about this that they don't.
Btw I almost won a duel against a Fed navy comet using a Venture. I only lost cause i made a mistake. There is more to playing Eve than SP and what ship your flying. |
Rhaegon Aesir
ShekelSquad Interhole Revenue Service
24
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Posted - 2017.06.04 10:21:22 -
[37] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote: You have no idea what you're talkng about.
How can a comet take on a federation navy comet?
You're not helping your case by citing ships that don't actually exist...
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Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
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Posted - 2017.06.04 11:45:31 -
[38] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Yet faction ships ate killed by t1 all the time. Each has a counter just like any other ship. In fact some t1 ships simply outperform faction ones when you invest the same amount of isk often times you can greet away with investing less
Can you link me a worm or a garmur being killed by a t1 hull?
I'd really like to see it. |
Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
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Posted - 2017.06.04 11:47:58 -
[39] - Quote
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:Desmios Sanguis wrote: You have no idea what you're talkng about.
How can a comet take on a federation navy comet?
You're not helping your case by citing ships that don't actually exist...
You know what I mean.
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Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
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Posted - 2017.06.04 11:48:58 -
[40] - Quote
Quote:So I'll just repeat the answer. Get Good, Get Friends, Stop Whining, And stop embarrassing yourself by telling the people who clearly do know more than you about this that they don't.
And this is why FW will die.
Because so many players on these forums are total dicks.
The only suggestions players ever give are: Git gud and git more ppl and stop QQ'ing
**** it, forget it, I'm out.
Try to do something nice for the game and you are all total dicks.
Go **** yourselves. |
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
642
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Posted - 2017.06.04 12:03:56 -
[41] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:Quote:So I'll just repeat the answer. Get Good, Get Friends, Stop Whining, And stop embarrassing yourself by telling the people who clearly do know more than you about this that they don't. And this is why FW will die. Because so many players on these forums are total dicks. The only suggestions players ever give are: Git gud and git more ppl and stop QQ'ing **** it, forget it, I'm out. Try to do something nice for the game and you are all total dicks. Go **** yourselves.
well good sir, feck you too.
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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
630
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Posted - 2017.06.04 12:21:18 -
[42] - Quote
"Large dogs should be banned from parks cause they keep eating my rabbits when I take them to the park to play."
Seriously that is what you sound like.
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Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
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Posted - 2017.06.04 12:23:34 -
[43] - Quote
Tuttomenui II wrote:"Large dogs should be banned from parks cause they keep eating my rabbits when I take them to the park to play."
Seriously that is what you sound like.
If you don't have anything constructive to add, f*ck off.
I'm tired of you holier-than-thou dickheads. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3989
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Posted - 2017.06.04 12:24:49 -
[44] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:Quote:So I'll just repeat the answer. Get Good, Get Friends, Stop Whining, And stop embarrassing yourself by telling the people who clearly do know more than you about this that they don't. And this is why FW will die. Because so many players on these forums are total dicks. The only suggestions players ever give are: Git gud and git more ppl and stop QQ'ing **** it, forget it, I'm out. Try to do something nice for the game and you are all total dicks. Go **** yourselves.
See this is the problem with all this hands off parenting hard anti bullying and safe space.
People don't learn how not to have a tantrum even after 4 years old
BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
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Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
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Posted - 2017.06.04 12:27:12 -
[45] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Desmios Sanguis wrote:Quote:So I'll just repeat the answer. Get Good, Get Friends, Stop Whining, And stop embarrassing yourself by telling the people who clearly do know more than you about this that they don't. And this is why FW will die. Because so many players on these forums are total dicks. The only suggestions players ever give are: Git gud and git more ppl and stop QQ'ing **** it, forget it, I'm out. Try to do something nice for the game and you are all total dicks. Go **** yourselves. See this is the problem with all this hands off parenting hard anti bullying and safe space. People don't learn how not to have a tantrum even after 4 years old
You people are the bullies. I came in very nicely and you were total assholes.
And now you are stooping low to insult someone's parents; I loved my parents, keep them out of this.
Go suck a **** ******. |
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
630
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 12:39:48 -
[46] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
You people are the bullies.
You were given good reasons why your idea will never happen short of Goe Rilla's Idea of adding lower tier sites for rookie ships. Faction ships are considered t1 hulls just have higher meta lvl.
You were also given good advice on how to beat factions ships.
Then you started being a bully. Telling these people with good advice they don't know what they are talking about.
Your tantrums just feed us. Be a little more professional and less salty and we won't have to call you out on it.
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Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
30
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 12:40:51 -
[47] - Quote
Tuttomenui II wrote:Desmios Sanguis wrote:
You people are the bullies.
You were given good reasons why your idea will never happen short of Goe Rilla's Idea of adding lower tier sites for rookie ships. Faction ships are considered t1 hulls just have higher meta lvl. You were also given good advice on how to beat factions ships. Then you started being a bully. Telling these people with good advice they don't know what they are talking about. Your tantrums just feed us. Be a little more professional and less salty and we won't have to call you out on it.
Saying "git gud" is not good advice.
"we" what are you elite jerk-offs all a hive-mind now? |
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
630
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 12:50:47 -
[48] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
"we" what are you elite jerk-offs all a hive-mind now?
No. We just have a good understanding of why the game works the way it does. We understand and accept that Eve online is not fair. If it were fair it would not drive people to try to improve and take the challenges they face head on, or at least know when to run away so they can come back later stronger and more prepared for the situation.
If eve were fair, duels would initiate invulnerability shields around the participants preventing interference by others. <- This by the way would never happen. Unless someone completely out of touch some how gained control of CCP.
As far as i can see your the first person to talk about git good. And the first to openly attack people for their comments.
I should reiterate this one point btw. FW is not PVP training, and It is very much real PVP. The sites are primarily to induce PVP any PVE is purely secondary. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
28377
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 13:01:42 -
[49] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:You people are the bullies. Nope, we're realists. Your idea: Is nothing that hasn't already come up Won't work anyway, experienced players will always have the advantage, regardless of any artificial restrictions. Demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge about the how and why of the game mechanics working as they do
Quote:before I came in very nicely and you were total assholes. You came here with the attitude that anybody that disagrees with your idea is a troll, dismissing anything that doesn't fall into line with your thoughts on it.
That's not nice, it's arrogant.
Quote:And now you are stooping low to insult someone's parents; I loved my parents, keep them out of this. Agreed, that was out of line.
Quote:Go suck a **** ******. Grow up. I'm assuming that you're an adult, stop being a petulant brat and act like one.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Rhaegon Aesir
ShekelSquad Interhole Revenue Service
24
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Posted - 2017.06.04 13:52:55 -
[50] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Can you link me a worm or a garmur being killed by a t1 hull?
I'd really like to see it.
Ask and ye shall receive.
Here are 3 Worms killed by solo T1 frigates within the last 5 days in FW lowsec.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/62707483/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/62678877/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/62646422/
Here are 3 Garmurs killed by solo T1 frigates within the last 5 days in FW lowsec.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/62726249/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/62675436/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/62645356/
I didn't even have to look very hard, this took 5 minutes of searching.
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3941
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 16:38:22 -
[51] - Quote
Noobs in T1 frigs will die to other T1 frigs played by more experienced and higher sp players. Freedom is a big deal in eve. That freedom comes with making fights unfair. All of us learn to choose our battles. Solo is hard. Very hard. You shouldn't expect to do it well. Barely any of us do. Make friends, seriously.
Since when were t2 not allowed in fw? Is that new?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
1564
|
Posted - 2017.06.04 20:24:37 -
[52] - Quote
The issue Desmond with your proposal is this: You make sure the rookie has no chance at all in FW. Limit the sites to T1 only & the rookie can never win, as the gear is now equal, but the veteran has the skill-advantage (both in injected skills as gameplay skill)
By allowing faction frigs in complexes, the rookie now stands more of a chance against the vet, as the vet can be flying a T1 for isk efficiency reasons, while the rookie flies a faction frig because it's cool, better or simply because he likes to be prepared against vets in T1 frigs.
Sure, if the vet flies a faction frig, the rookie is still shafted. But as noted, tehre's now more variety in the situations, more chances for different outcomes & this makes it balanced. No more is it a pure skill question (T1 frig vs T1 frig= skill equation), but now gear also plays a role, allowing the rookie to overpower a vet with gear when he lacks the combat skills.
Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
434
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 06:38:22 -
[53] - Quote
It's a legitimate point, if badly presented. Faction ships are T2 ships in all but name, with performance vastly exceeding what normal T1 ships are capable of. Banning them entirely as the OP suggests is obviously stupid, but they should be classified as T2 ships for FW plex purposes. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
156
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 13:52:57 -
[54] - Quote
I think it's reasonable to treat faction ships as T2 ships when seeing if it's allowed in a plex.
T2 frigates aren't allowed in novice plexes. It's not unreasonable to say that faction and pirate frigates shouldn't be allowed either.
That's as far as it should be taken though. Novice plexes should change to T1 non-faction/pirate only. Because... they're for novices. Once you move up to small... there are no T2 restrictions. So likewise there should be no faction ship restrictions.
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Piugattuk
Perkone Caldari State
632
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 14:01:53 -
[55] - Quote
This was brought up at the last fanfeast, according to CCP they were actually in the process of revamping FW to be a kinder genital...place, where only t-1 mods and ships are allowed, where instead of rockets, snowball fights determine the outcomes, and capturing the flag is replaced by sharing the candy cane pole, like that. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
642
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 14:37:15 -
[56] - Quote
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
If you don't have anything constructive to add, f*ck off.
I'm tired of you holier-than-thou dickheads.
yes, calling those who you'd like to engage in this thread dickheads is how you rally people, you really believe that is how you get people interested in your point of view?
no matter how right or wrong it is, insult the very people you want to listen and perhaps join in on your little idea?
how about you realise FW was designed before alpha state clones where a thing, then let's look at what you would like. the removal of a ship type that's used by a lot of people to accomadate people who may or may not stick around to support a part of the game people have already invested in as omega states and have done for a few years now.
how about being able to fly these ships is something people have to aim for, if an alpha wants to do stuff beyond alpha then they can and should be able but without CCP holding their hand through the process, they could sub up,, now that's good for the game. if ya want to fly shiney then ya gotta pay for it and don't **** and moan when ya lose it, first rule of EVE, fly what you can afford to lose.
alpha states are getting more than enough to get them interested in the game. fecking with a part of the game that PVP pilots use a lot is not good for the game as a whole, which you say is why you would like this change, to make EVE better.
we get it, you like FW and believe banning faction ships from some FW sites would be great to get more alphas into FW and help boost a part of the game you like and play. only thing is if its not a good idea, then no mater how many people you call a dickhead, or insult, or claim nah we're just not getting it. being a bad idea won't change.
would it not be a better idea to ask people for their support on this idea you have?
accept not everyone will agree with your views and perhaps take their point of view on board, oh and try not to call them dickheads and sling insults. that never ends well.
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Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
156
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 14:50:17 -
[57] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:The issue Desmond with your proposal is this: You make sure the rookie has no chance at all in FW. Limit the sites to T1 only & the rookie can never win, as the gear is now equal, but the veteran has the skill-advantage (both in injected skills as gameplay skill)
By allowing faction frigs in complexes, the rookie now stands more of a chance against the vet, as the vet can be flying a T1 for isk efficiency reasons, while the rookie flies a faction frig because it's cool, better or simply because he likes to be prepared against vets in T1 frigs.
Sure, if the vet flies a faction frig, the rookie is still shafted. But as noted, tehre's now more variety in the situations, more chances for different outcomes & this makes it balanced. No more is it a pure skill question (T1 frig vs T1 frig= skill equation), but now gear also plays a role, allowing the rookie to overpower a vet with gear when he lacks the combat skills.
I disagree with this completely.
Because of the way T1 frigates are, if you bring the right kind of ship and put yourself in the right kind of situation you can still win even with sub par skills. I've won several T1 vs T1 battles in frigates with an alpha clone against those using T2 weapons. If I am kiting and I'm able to keep range while you're brawling... your guns matter very little as you can't hit me.
I've never come even close to beating a Navy/Pirate ship with an alpha clone though. Even when I have the tactical advantage... it never matters. I die. Quickly.
Skillpoints are a factor... but a small one. Gameplay skills are a major factor, but you get those by getting in close fights. Tristans, Breachers and Kestrels fighting navy and pirate ships don't result in close fights... at least not for me. I don't learn anything from those... other than that I should run anytime a non-T1 starts to warp in. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
156
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 14:54:31 -
[58] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Noobs in T1 frigs will die to other T1 frigs played by more experienced and higher sp players. Freedom is a big deal in eve. That freedom comes with making fights unfair. All of us learn to choose our battles. Solo is hard. Very hard. You shouldn't expect to do it well. Barely any of us do. Make friends, seriously.
Since when were t2 not allowed in fw? Is that new?
For a while.
T2 frigates are not allowed in Novice plexes. T3 destroyers are not allowed in small plexes. T3 cruisers are not allowed in medium plexes.
It's already been determined that T2 frigates are too powerful for Novice plexes. Given that... I don't see a problem with not having Pirate/faction frigates in novice plexes either.
That's really the only change necessary. Novice plexes already bar interceptors, bombers and assault frigates. I personally would rather face a Wolf than a Worm to be honest. |
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