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Methodius
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Posted - 2007.05.19 03:21:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Mirirar I wish we could just have forum bans imposed on people whining for more servers.
Agreed.
I'm tired of these (former?) WoW players who come here thinking they have it all figured out and advocate a break up of EVE.
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F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:21:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Nos Gainah Edited by: Nos Gainah on 17/05/2007 16:33:34 Edited by: Nos Gainah on 17/05/2007 16:33:12
Originally by: Elena Lanfear Why do we need a noob friendly environment??
Stupid question, really. YOU don't need a more noob friendly environment. I don't need a noob friendly environment. NEW PLAYERS need a better environment than a constantly growing ceiling that there's no way to catch up to, and keep in mind that pretty much the exact same alliances and people have controlled the about the same regions in Eve for most of its existance. When I say "new shard", personally, I mean "new galaxy" that's still connected to the old one. There's absolutely no argument that I have heard against this other than the utter fallacy that we don't need a friendlier environment for new players. Frankly, that's a complete straw man, I'm saying that Eve could do with a whole slew of new territories other than just expanding the same borders outward because that's not new content for ANYONE. If you want the game to grow you need new things to do and new people to support the better things. A new, separate galaxy that is fundamentally connected to the Eve galaxy would do a lot for the game- a lot that just expanding the same old borders can. I don't see any argument against this, and there's also no reason to not want new players unless you enjoy doing the exact same things with the exact same people all the time.
"Multishard = lots of people quitting. Me included."
Then quit, hell, if you actually followed this logic you'd already be gone, Eve IS sharded, it's just one connected universe. I think that a new galaxy on a new server cluster that supports the same chat channels is a WAY better idea than just adding a couple new regions for the closest alliance to rush in to- give entrepreneurs a better chance and the community will be richer, not poorer!
You need to look at the history of the Chinese server.
On Serenity the game was quickly overtaken by those who had played on Tranq. They knew how to play and what to do to get ahead quickly. In barely days they controlled the majority of the resources on the server and quickly cornered the markets of T2 and high-end merchandise, like Cap ships.
Now the entire Serenity server is split into two factions led by people who knew how to play Eve. All the new Chinese players are basically their drones.
This is the same thing that would happen on a new shard. I could go there and make a killing in no time under your misguided assumptions.
Also, you need to look at the Eve Territorial Map in COAD if you truly think the same people have controlled the same regions since Eve began.
Originally by: Troy Knight
[After training Warp Drive Ops I] Still time I could have used training something else.
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Lardarz B'stard
Amarr Dark Knights of Deneb
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:43:00 -
[93]
Read the bit at the top of this page that says "the world's largest game universe".
It doesn't say "a collection of relatively small universes on different servers as a cunning attempt to avoid lag".
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Requiem of Hades
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:48:00 -
[94]
Because you can feel how it is like to live among psychopaths before you try that in real life.
The moral is don't try that in real life. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.05.19 10:13:00 -
[95]
There are WoW servers that are dead. Not dying. Dead.
Blizzard happily throws up a new server all the time to get their old players to hampster wheel the leveling grind in a race to the top yet again. If you don't like that you can pay Blizzard 25$ to move a character from one server to another.
Good for Blizzard $$ wise. Their game has no soul though. Who the heck is Knightmare, 70 Paladin, on the Akama server? Maybe he's known to some on that server, but he's noooooooobody in the rest of their "community". Just another hampster probably thinking about jumping on that wheel again.
Meanwhile Blizzard thinks about opening 3 more "shards". They do, and half the guilds on the older servers dry up as people hop to a new server to race to 70. So they can pwn the slow ones...
Meh. Sane people don't see the appeal.
------------------- Say What? |
Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.05.19 11:44:00 -
[96]
Coffee is black and I like it that way.
Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
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Phoenix Britannian
Gallente Virtue Corporation
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Posted - 2007.05.20 04:08:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Roy Batty68 There are WoW servers that are dead. Not dying. Dead.
Blizzard happily throws up a new server all the time to get their old players to hampster wheel the leveling grind in a race to the top yet again. If you don't like that you can pay Blizzard 25$ to move a character from one server to another.
Good for Blizzard $$ wise. Their game has no soul though. Who the heck is Knightmare, 70 Paladin, on the Akama server? Maybe he's known to some on that server, but he's noooooooobody in the rest of their "community". Just another hampster probably thinking about jumping on that wheel again.
Meanwhile Blizzard thinks about opening 3 more "shards". They do, and half the guilds on the older servers dry up as people hop to a new server to race to 70. So they can pwn the slow ones...
Meh. Sane people don't see the appeal.
Yeah, Blizzard has been over inflating their servers for some time. It's primarily because of all the people who come around asking for new servers every 5 seconds 24/7, then when they open a new one, all the people who want a new server flock to them, play a lot, and when some one else gets above them or whatever they all quit and start asking for a new server again, with the end goal being to get to the top themselves. Rather silly really.
- Phoenix Britannian |
Iron McFly
CHAF tech
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Posted - 2007.05.20 05:48:00 -
[98]
Thanks, many good and some really creative-funny posts.
I am generally persuaded. My the opening said, Quote: C) CCP fears even a single New EVE every 2 or 3 years would undermine game depth and long-term player support ( or addiction :) ?
Depth, Immersion, Player Support, No seperation of friends,..
And the arguement that market stability takes time - even years - moves me. I really don't understand how EVE started. Maybe a new server would need to be started differently. That Vets here would be even more dominant in a new server is not what I'd like to see. Talk of cornering the T-2 market, not good.
So anyway, I get it. I sort of already knew but ...
Nobody thinks an added server would grow subscriptions ? ! Maybe I was not clear - I was thinking an EVE-2008 would be open only to completely seperate accounts - No Server Jumping. With rules different enough to catch players currently trying EVE and bailing - yes - many WoW types.
To make another server is attractive to me - Not to win - but add profits to CCP for more PvE content. Yes, I'm a CareBear.
My wish ? My version ? Earned Skill Points !!! No Trial Accounts. Bump players from NPC corps after 30 days or to get current paid acct. only skills. Better Anti Macro Mining enforcement like force mining barges to enter visually scrabbled text test every 30-90 minutes like a website limiting downloads ( that IS an area I suspect conspiracy - but i gather it costs CCP $ for petition attention to end $ accts. ) Then idk - maybe Concord to 0.3, cheaper smaller POS easy up to 0.5 (CCP is talking of OutPosts ?), and can hire Concord to protect me to 0.1. At least I envisioned a 2nd EVE cloned in shape (to save CCP cost of software attention) - with seperate accounts - no char jumping - no connection of economies.
Aahh - just for the record, I have Not played WoW.
I have one friend who loves it and talks about it - I barely understand it. He had me install the Demo (3-4 hours) last year and after making a char for me and showing me a few things over 30 minutes ... I never played it myself. I Love EVE - mining - grinding missions - making ships - no blood - no wierd magic powers.
Thanks again - cya in game o/
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F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.05.20 06:01:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Iron McFly Thanks, many good and some really creative-funny posts.
I am generally persuaded. My the opening said, Quote: C) CCP fears even a single New EVE every 2 or 3 years would undermine game depth and long-term player support ( or addiction :) ?
Depth, Immersion, Player Support, No seperation of friends,..
And the arguement that market stability takes time - even years - moves me. I really don't understand how EVE started. Maybe a new server would need to be started differently. That Vets here would be even more dominant in a new server is not what I'd like to see. Talk of cornering the T-2 market, not good.
So anyway, I get it. I sort of already knew but ...
Nobody thinks an added server would grow subscriptions ? ! Maybe I was not clear - I was thinking an EVE-2008 would be open only to completely seperate accounts - No Server Jumping. With rules different enough to catch players currently trying EVE and bailing - yes - many WoW types.
To make another server is attractive to me - Not to win - but add profits to CCP for more PvE content. Yes, I'm a CareBear.
My wish ? My version ? Earned Skill Points !!! No Trial Accounts. Bump players from NPC corps after 30 days or to get current paid acct. only skills. Better Anti Macro Mining enforcement like force mining barges to enter visually scrabbled text test every 30-90 minutes like a website limiting downloads ( that IS an area I suspect conspiracy - but i gather it costs CCP $ for petition attention to end $ accts. ) Then idk - maybe Concord to 0.3, cheaper smaller POS easy up to 0.5 (CCP is talking of OutPosts ?), and can hire Concord to protect me to 0.1. At least I envisioned a 2nd EVE cloned in shape (to save CCP cost of software attention) - with seperate accounts - no char jumping - no connection of economies.
Aahh - just for the record, I have Not played WoW.
I have one friend who loves it and talks about it - I barely understand it. He had me install the Demo (3-4 hours) last year and after making a char for me and showing me a few things over 30 minutes ... I never played it myself. I Love EVE - mining - grinding missions - making ships - no blood - no wierd magic powers.
Thanks again - cya in game o/
Ignoring your PvE desires, which I'm sure many will jump on, you fail to understand how the Eve Server works. In Wow, and most other MMOGs, you can run a server on a server, i.e. what everyone basically understands as a server, a specialized computer that many people access.
Eve is not a server, though, it is a cluster. Tranq currently runs on 50-60 (maybe more) dual core servers (the kind other MMOGs use for one shard) that are linked together as a super computer (one of the world's top 500, actually (or it was, at any rate)).
So to add another shard would be to purchase another several score of these machines, plus the several RAMSANs that back them up, plus the network connections and ISP service. In order to make this financially viable, the Eve customer base would have to more than double overnight. That's not going to happen, no matter what you do unless you totally rewrite the game and heavily advertise it (adding several multiples to the needed player influx).
It's really a moot point, aka totally financially suicidal.
I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
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MissileRus
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Posted - 2007.05.20 11:13:00 -
[100]
eves cluster is teh ultimate epeen, i imagine they get mails from devs and technicians all over the world that wants to toutch the baby.. id hit it any day
--------------------------- 4. i like pizza |
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.20 13:00:00 -
[101]
If EVE opened a new server I would be willing to pay twice the current fee for an account and would probly get two accounts.
But blah blah, it's all about the community and continuity and one world, etc, ... so says everyone who has "won" EVE. Practically everyone under a year old I have asked would jump at a new server.
Why? It's too damned crowded, rescources are snapped up or used up. Small Corps, hell even small Alliances are screwed as far as getting anything done for long. People like smallish groups, not huge ass Alliances where everyone is an extended drone for some FC.
Regardless, it doesnt have to be a new server, I would be happy with EVE being 3 times as large as it is now. As is, the current Alliances can controll and manage what space there is ... add more freekin space!
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Iyanah
Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem R i s e
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Posted - 2007.05.20 13:14:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske A huge part of the distinctive appeal of EVE for me is that it is all one big, screwy, world with a huge population, a history, and many ongoing stories.
exactly. you split up the population and alot of the positives the OP was talking about, such as increased population would actually never happen, the opposite effect would almost certainly be seen, people would create alts on every server, but that's about it. having two servers wouldn't draw more people in, it would drive people off because they're split up from other elements of the community, and they don't feel the same effects.
besides, TQ has hardly reached capacity, so what's the point in opening up MORE capacity which will be expensive to run yet not be used? ========================================== Iy |
DeadRow
Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.05.20 13:24:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Multishard = lots of people quitting. Me included.
QFT /DeadRow
*snip* - signature removed, please email us with a link if you wish to know why. -Ivan K |
Elena Lanfear
Crafty Productions
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Posted - 2007.05.20 13:47:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Iron McFly Edited by: Iron McFly on 20/05/2007 13:16:35 Edited by: Iron McFly on 20/05/2007 06:19:06 To make another server is attractive to me - Not to win - but add profits to CCP for more PvE content. Yes, I'm a CareBear.
My wish ? My version ? Earned Skill Points !!! Bump players paid acct.from NPC corps after 30 days or to get current only skills. Better Anti Macro Mining enforcement like force mining barges to enter visually scrabbled text test every 30-90 minutes like a website limiting downloads ( that IS an area I suspect conspiracy - but i gather it costs CCP $ for petition attention to end $ accts. ) Then idk - maybe Concord to 0.3, cheaper smaller POS easy up to 0.5 (CCP is talking of OutPosts ?), and can hire Concord to protect me to 0.1.
edit - seems 'Outposts' already in game and are Bigger Not smaller and cheaper :( crap.
At least I envisioned a 2nd EVE cloned in shape (to save CCP cost of software attention) - with seperate accounts - no char jumping - no connection of economies.
Thanks again - cya in game o/
To start: I am a carebear too. Think i have shot two ships in my whole Eve career so far and killed none of them ;-).
But: I think, your visions of an eve server can't work for some economical reasons.
First of all: If you would be able to be protected in System down to 0.3 (or 0.1 with some fee), whats the point of them? What would make them special and the ore there more expensive than 1.0 Ore? Who would lose ships there?
So: Cheap High end minerals, less market for new ships (makes the Minerals even cheaper as there is too much supply for the demand)
I agree, mining is boring, but entering text every 60-90 minutes? Hell, even more boring, at least i would hate that. No idea if real miners like the idea.
Earned Skillpoints? Like: i shoot with my Cruise Missile Launcher so i will get SP in Cruise missiles? If i remember correct Eve had this kind of SP a long time ago, but some clever people stayed outside of stations with modules running the whole night. ;-).
Cheaper POS? Well, i agree, it IS an investment to set up a High Sec Research POS (and thats the only thing i can think of where High Sec POS are really needed). I would be happy if they become cheaper, but i dont think so. In the end, its a nice ISK sink and i doubt that CCP will remove it. ;-)
The conclusion of this long post? On your server, there would be tons of ISK (from missions running). You wouldnt lose ships very often, so what to buy with them? Mins are damn cheap because there is not much risk when mining, so why mine when you make more ISK with missions?
There is a balance between PVP and PVE. Perhaps a Producer (or Miner) doesnt like a Playerkiller, but we would run in serious problems without them cause they create the demand for our supply.
- Elena
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Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.05.20 14:05:00 -
[105]
amt player numbers are down for one primary reason = lag and lots of it its not improving and CCP arent being forthcoming either
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Galk
Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said
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Posted - 2007.05.20 15:44:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Nyphur It's been said a hundred times but I'll say it again. The main reason why one single server is great is accountability and forced conflict.
Additionally, what happens if I declare war on your corp and you can't handle it? If you had another server to flee to, you probably would.
Your favourite area over-run by pirates? Switch to another server.
So where do you stand on multiple accounts then
Essentialy it's the same, and covers all your points.
like yourself i have multiple accounts, while galk has been dragged through the mud, my main alt assoicated to me a few times by those mallious individuals attempting to do the same to that character... i can just log my backup on my laptop, run it through my dsl line... and nobody ccp/anybody would know it's me.
Different world
Only mentioning it, because you're right.... there are 'very' clear messages that come from eve's supporters and ccp themselfs as to why there are no multiple shards... in truth though... i gave you a very clear example of why those messages don't mean all that much in real terms.
Cheating the system ______
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Tortun Nahme
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Posted - 2007.05.20 15:47:00 -
[107]
simply put
EVE's economic model does not encourage additional shards
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Topaz Skydiver
Minmatar Narrative Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.05.20 16:13:00 -
[108]
Currently all people, who want to play (non-china) EVE, have to play together, no matter if they like it or not: pvp'ers, carebears, vets, newbies, whatever. That makes EVE the complex world/society that it is with it's working economy and all the conflicts that make it interesting in the long-run.
( EVE is maybe unique in this, but it's simple: If someone really doesn't like it and feels abused: Noone forces him to play EVE. Either he likes the game over all, thinks it's worth subscribing it and arranges himself with the EVE concept or he stays away. ) --------------------------------------------- *snip* |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.20 17:24:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme simply put
EVE's economic model does not encourage additional shards
Not if we made Jita accessible for people of all shards
Originally by: welsh wizard You might not be able to kill anything but you can sure as hell ignore it and go about your business
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.22 11:32:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme simply put
EVE's economic model does not encourage additional shards
indeed ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
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Rabbitual Ferrier
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Posted - 2007.05.22 13:19:00 -
[111]
Real life is your shard.
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Harisdrop
Gallente Vindicate and Deliverance
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Posted - 2007.05.22 14:05:00 -
[112]
Originally by: mechtech
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske A huge part of the distinctive appeal of EVE for me is that it is all one big, screwy, world with a huge population, a history, and many ongoing stories.
I think this is appealing to the majority of the eve population. I would however like some constellations to have alternate rule-sets. For example, a certain 0.0 constellation only has constellation chat, not local, and another might have roaming rogue drones that might infest systems, ect. This is what I had in mind for the new regions that were added to 0.0 recently.
Woot welcome to the Revelations 2...
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