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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
210
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Posted - 2017.06.09 22:26:21 -
[1] - Quote
Welp, didn't need to actually use this character anyway. I'm sure the 46 million SP I have invested into flying supers will be very useful now that they're trash... Since my other characters are all trained to fly pirate battleships and T3 cruisers, it appears about 70% of my training and net worth just got nerfed down the drain in one go. I'll be back if Eve becomes playable again some day. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
210
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Posted - 2017.06.11 23:30:37 -
[2] - Quote
Mariza vonAmdonen wrote:Thomas DeTorquemada wrote:Ridiculous preteen Mentality....
I give it two months when number of subscribers have dropped along with the revenue, then coax them back with a buff and an admission of 'we got it wrong' subtly placed somewhere in the patch.
Target the problem of the loot drop in the first place and the bounty.
Next it'll be ' we dont need guns anymore on ships, start throwing buns instead' Ratters will keep on ratting but you've upset the pvp population way more imo, unjustifiably
Do you really think this is the way to assure game longevity? come on devs, do the right thing they dont want to nerf all ratting, just carrier/super-ratting that is OP. I've been watching PLEX prices since this 'uprising' and guess what they are steadily rising. no indication of significant loss of subscribers PLEX prices wouldn't be an indicator this soon anyway. Before leaving I put all my ISK into PLEX and other investments I expect to increase in value, because I have 0% confidence in CCP's attempts to stop inflation if this is what they're trying. I probably bought 3-4 months worth of my normal PLEX consumption so my disappearance actually contributed to a temporary increase in PLEX price at the moment. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
210
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Posted - 2017.06.12 01:43:53 -
[3] - Quote
Mariza vonAmdonen wrote:Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:PLEX prices wouldn't be an indicator this soon anyway. Before leaving I put all my ISK into PLEX and other investments I expect to increase in value, because I have 0% confidence in CCP's attempts to stop inflation if this is what they're trying. I probably bought 3-4 months worth of my normal PLEX consumption so my disappearance actually contributed to a temporary increase in PLEX price at the moment. so, effectively, you are not leaving. Just pretending so, by temporary disappearing. I intend to disappear however long it takes CCP to change the direction of development to something more positive. Whether that's a month or forever is beside the point. I love Eve and want it to be great, and there's still a chance it can be. I haven't lost hope for the game, but I have lost faith. If things don't change for the better I won't be back, but I sincerely hope the direction does improve so I can come back some day. I'd be a fool not to prepare for that possibility in what little way I can. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
211
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Posted - 2017.06.12 09:06:27 -
[4] - Quote
To be fair, the last couple days have been the weekend so CCP employees haven't necessarily been around to keep track of what's going on. That is kind of the downside of announcing a change on Friday when it needs to be set in stone on Monday though... |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
212
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Posted - 2017.06.13 00:37:10 -
[5] - Quote
Aleverette wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:The Data:LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: - 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers
- 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers
- 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers
Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. What about smartbombing? Could you show us the amount of isk generated by navy bs? Smartbomb ratting can be done in T1 battleships, navy battleships, and pirate battleships. Those can also rat in other ways, so the data would have to be filtered by what weapon(s) were used. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
212
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Posted - 2017.06.13 04:12:01 -
[6] - Quote
Jo Kiyoko wrote:This demonstrates a new face from developers who can't commit to an announcement, and then lie and cave in to intimidation from its players, with a company with dwindling integrity can we trust CCP anymore these days? So you would rather CCP not listen to players at all than only listen when there's enough outrage that hundreds of players are quitting? |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
212
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Posted - 2017.06.13 09:07:42 -
[7] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote:Will admit it is crap like this why I avoid the forums.
CCP come out with data
The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that:
22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers
Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties.
They come out with a solution.
Then Null cries and CCP folds.
And if you are not a member of the big blue donut, it shows just how much you matter to CCP.
Not at All.
Null will continue to grow huge fortunes in bounties, in an environment where even the targeting of fighters by NPCs is to much for the Null bears to take and everyone else dies by inflation.
As someone who likes Wormhole space and Hi-sec, I don't even feel like an after thought in this game any more. You seem to be misunderstanding some of the backlash here. There are three issues at stake here: 1. Carrier/super capabilities in PvE. 2. Carrier/super abilities in PvP. 3. Announcing such a significant nerf with so little warning, especially when people don't feel 1 or 2 are justified. You seem to be focused on the PvE part of the nerf which is the part that's most justified. Many of us protesting the change have no problem with fighters doing 20-30% less damage to rats. The problem is when the solution they propose includes such a drastic and unjustified change to the ships' capabilities against player ships and structures. If the problem is the money carrier pilots make, nerf the money they make but don't screw over everyone who trained the ship for something other than making money.
I'm strongly against a fighter nerf, even the reduced version, for PvP reasons, but I completely agree something needs to be done to change their moneymaking abilities. I'd personally go with turning bounties over a certain amount into CONCORD LP so there's a bit of supply and demand in the system as well as an ISK sink, but there have been many other alternatives proposed. What most of us agree on is that nerfing a ship's PvP abilities into the ground for PvE reasons is absurd. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
212
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Posted - 2017.06.13 09:14:53 -
[8] - Quote
erg cz wrote:Instead of making NPC agress drones 100 % if ship is not shooting a single salvo on NPC itselves, they reduce drone agron from 15% to 0. IMHO absolutely stupid decision. Problem are not fighter damage, problem is NPC AI, that allows use only fighters / drones and stay semi AFK.
Make NPC focus on your drones if ship is not firing itself and leave fighters as they are now ... grrr !!! I dare you to try using fighters semi AFK. They're like guns, except when the target dies, in addition to doing no damage your guns also die if you don't pick a new target within a few seconds. The level of NPC fighter aggro is already absurd, yet it doesn't deter those who can keep their fighters moving and kill the most dangerous NPCs quickly. At this point I don't think there would be a noticeable difference if rats targeted fighters 100% of the time. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
212
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Posted - 2017.06.13 09:28:13 -
[9] - Quote
Jarmen4u wrote:Also, what dreams are there to achieve once you're at a level that you can AFK rat in a super? There's not much upward mobility to go once you're a super pilot. Now, if they were nerfing the income for VNIs or other subcaps, that would certainly crush the dreams of those who are trying to achieve. But if you're in a super, you've already succeeded. At that point, it's not even work. The problem becomes, your money is making money for you, just like in real life. Rich get richer, etc etc. Not a good economical decision in game or in real life. First of all, there is no level at which you can AFK rat in a super. The longest you can go AFK is about 10 seconds, and even then you might lose a fighter. It's the most demanding way to make money, where you need to keep up an average of 40+ actions per minute with no breaks except warping between sites.
As for what there is to do after getting a super, there's plenty of stuff. You can still work toward getting a titan or multiple, buying multiple relatively expensive ships for PvP, investing in the market or other more lucrative venture, etc. I can think of 1000x more things to do than what my ISK will allow, and as my killboard demonstrates, I own a super. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
212
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Posted - 2017.06.13 09:40:22 -
[10] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably)
I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information.
Haven't you been paying attention? They get up to 260 mil ticks. What more do you need to know? |
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Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
214
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Posted - 2017.06.13 10:11:35 -
[11] - Quote
Ok, my bad. I forgot sarcasm doesn't come across very well in text. Any references I may make to 260 mil ticks are referring to CCP Quant's glorious reddit post about supers getting up to 260 mil ticks and making 780 mil an hour per account. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
217
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Posted - 2017.06.13 12:18:40 -
[12] - Quote
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:baltec1 wrote:You can very easily operate 2-3 supers/carriers using this system. OK, proven. You don't have supercarrier and have no clue what you're talking about. You just made a fool of yourself in front of every supercarrier pilot who's ever used it for PVE. Well done. Only thing we can see here is you are bad at multitasking. It's not hard to baby sit a pair of ratting supers using this tool. For someone who doesn't even rat in super you need to stop lecturing others on how superratting is done. No wonder PL is becoming irrelevant seeing it lets in trolls like yourself. That's a bit harsh. I have no doubt using two supers is possible. I could do it if I had no self respect, so someone can probably do 3 or maybe even 4. Is it easy? Not so much, but definitely possible. I've seen people with astounding APM, and that's really the only thing preventing it. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
218
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Posted - 2017.06.15 01:49:52 -
[13] - Quote
Trevize Demerzel wrote:IMO. If they would change it so fighters did less dps to rats and increased their resistance to being rendered useless in pvp I'd be fine with that. It's the nerfing pve plus adding npc agro and leaving then useless in pvp that annoys me so much.
A (super)carrier shouldn't fear a bunch of frigs or even a solo small ship that can render it a large loot Pinata in pvp. It's fighters need some teeth in pvp. The ability to defang a carrier at present is rather ridiculous and I think that is why this entire nerf angered so many. Myself included.
This right here. It feels like with the Citadel update carriers and supers got transformed from blob ships to ratting ships that happen to still be decent in a blob. Ever since then, it has been nerf after nerf, with each one targeted at their ratting ability but hitting their already weak out-of-blob PvP abilities even harder. I didn't train carriers and supers to make ISK or sit in TiDi all day pressing a button every few minutes; I trained them as a tool against groups of smaller ships in PvP to get something of a "quality over quantity" advantage. Unfortunately after 4 nerfs to carriers and only a slight tracking change to dreads and titans, it's clear I made the wrong choice. Dreads and titans are for every fight against players and carriers are for PvE or when you outclass the enemy so much that it's a contest to who can lock them fast enough to get on the kills. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
218
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Posted - 2017.06.15 14:11:05 -
[14] - Quote
First of all there's a sov upgrade, which your system should have, that spawns several more Havens than normal and makes them respawn very quickly. That alone can easily support a super and 2-3 carriers doing sites, as long as you don't have other people in subcaps occupying anomalies for half an hour. Second, I'm not sure if it's the case for normal carriers, but supers make more money in Forsaken Hubs and Sanctums than Havens, so that takes a little of the pressure off. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
218
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Posted - 2017.06.17 00:37:42 -
[15] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Valdr Auduin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Functionality > realism/quality of simulation
The top part of your post is also bad since all it does is make people completely stop using carriers and supers. The validity of that statement relies on your assumption of what is and is not functional, or rather what function is most desirable. Since this is, I've been told, a highly detailed economics simulator (in space, for fun and imaginary profit), one would be led to assume that the quality of the simulation is actually fairly important. And it doesn't stop people using carriers and supers, it just means using them leaves an escalating paper trail, I'm more thinking about the kind of content having pirates following a high-end player's caps around would entail than the functionality of your bland ratting mechanics. If it's ever escalating like you were proposing, it means your ship will die at some point and you won't have a counter beside not participating. You know what happen to feature that grantee your ship will go boom with not associated counter? Player stop participating. If you don't believe me on that, check how active the Drifters incursion were and you will understand how interesting a mechanic you can't avoid is. You mean the Drifter incursions that were slaughtering hundreds of Thrashers each day while printing 3-5 billion ISK per site? I ran those for 3 days and made 22 bil. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
219
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Posted - 2017.06.21 00:21:17 -
[16] - Quote
TsuRuiChen Gallentius wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:still would like fighters to be less ezmode anti-everything Honestly Fighters are way "ezmode" to kill, they have huge sigs and its beyond easy to defang a carrier, if anything nerf Hotdrop spam. Or just bring a single Griffin. Carriers are laughably vulnerable in small numbers where they don't have enough firepower spread across enough targets to take out enemy ships quickly. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
219
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Posted - 2017.07.03 17:36:16 -
[17] - Quote
Freeman Kurt wrote:You say that traders take the isk and carriers don't but if ccp is pointing that one percent is earning bigger rewards with isk, why not go for the traders as well. They are the one percent because they have the most isk over everyone else in the game right now. The traders should get nerfed not carriers and The carrier ratters are not rich like the traders are The concern isn't that too few players are getting too much ISK, it's that too much new ISK is being added to the economy and the small group of players are an easier target than larger groups. Ratting makes new ISK out of thin air and is the largest ISK faucet; trading takes ISK out of the game in the form of tax and NPC broker fees and is the largest ISK sink. Why would they nerf the people doing the most to fight the problem? Also any kind of nerf to trading will hurt small traders exponentially more than the top traders who control whole markets and don't have to compete as much. If anything it will help the big traders by making it harder for anyone else to approach a level where they could compete. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
219
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Posted - 2017.07.05 17:23:05 -
[18] - Quote
Valdr Auduin wrote:Tessa Sage wrote:Valdr Auduin wrote:what the real problem is, and we've run around this bush more than a dozen times in this thread alone, is that the isk is being created faster than it's being destroyed
CCP clamping down on revenue streams isn't solving the problem, they need to promote expense activities, which means wars. It's not just about wars, it is the ceded space: one side laying claim to another's does not change the potential flow of ISK, only where it pools. If the game has to course correct on account of overfarming NPC kills, let the NPCs grind sov and reduce the playerbase's pie. I made a few posts about having empire space try to expand into nullsec at the corps' and alliances' expense, it'd create a minimum of activity and let CCP take a more active hand in breaking down calcified territory that fails to move content. That might also help clean out the excess citadels, having NPC cleaners roving through, but that'd need some careful work- then again, the worst they could do in retaliation is siege the markets until concord and random militias roving through bleeds them dry. It'd be a **** move and would put the final nail in the coffin of "end-game content", but I dunno, it might be good for the game, I can't say. Anything that puts the final nail in the coffin of "end-game content" also puts a pretty huge nail in the coffin of many players' hopes and dreams. A lot of us started playing with dreams of joining an alliance and forging our empire, eventually flying supers and titans, and participating in these epic giant space battles. CCP has been repeatedly attacking that dream on multiple fronts: sov changes that promote isolation and lack of interaction, citadels that promote lack of interaction, jump fatigue that promotes lack of interaction, making supercaps cheap and accessible so they're no longer as special, nerfing anything appealing into the ground and leaving people with cumulative centuries of wasted training across the playerbase, and more. Some players with that dream like me have been holding on, hoping things get better. If CCP finally kills that dream a lot of players are going to leave and many more won't join the game in the first place. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
220
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Posted - 2017.07.06 18:29:10 -
[19] - Quote
Veritas Totient wrote:I think that Networked Sensor Array should disallow move like bastion/siege/triage. This would be a good nerf for those PVE carriers. No, it would completely kill a majority of PvP carriers while barely affecting PvE. In PvE you can fit 2-3 sensor boosters, not fit a cloak, lock targets well before you need them, and sitting still isn't that bad. In PvP you can't afford to use slots on sensor boosters, you might need a cloak, and you definitely need to be able to lock targets quickly and get out quickly because you don't have any of a dread's strengths that let it sit there and commit to a fight. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
220
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Posted - 2017.07.10 10:25:18 -
[20] - Quote
Ace Aideron wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Secondly, captain obvious, devaluing those items is the entire damn point. They're overpowered, and need to be brought back into line. If that hurts someone's feefees, that's just too damn bad. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to chase after the destined-to-be-nerfed flavor of the month. The whole idea of "destined-to-be-nerfed" is completely wrong-headed. IMO, nerfing is an intellectually lazy solution to balance issues. You may not care how it makes people feel, but assuming CCP cares about their customers and doesn't intentionally want to drive them away (always a possibility!), they should. If nerfing was a no-go from the beginning, CCP would be motivated to be much more careful and thorough about introducing potentially balance-altering changes. Once introduced, if they were "too powerful," (by some nebulous standard) then other aspects of the environment could be adjusted. There are many, many ways to achieve balance that don't result in players feeling like they've had something stolen from them. Although Eve is certainly "just a game," it's different from most games in a couple of important ways. First, it can takes months or even years to skill up to things like capital ships. Second, it can take hundreds of hours and/or dollars to reach your goals. Those supporting nerfs (including CCP) clearly don't understand the psychology of the Eve player base. If you intentionally want to drive those players away, then sure, nerf to your heart's content. OTOH, if you want to keep those players, then nerfing is a bad, bad idea, that should be undertaken only as a last resort. This right here! Having stuff nerfed never feels good to those who have invested in it. Eve seems to be in a perpetual cycle of making new or rebalanced stuff overpowered then nerfing it into uselessness a few months later. Balance is an evasive ideal, and in many ways is actually really boring, but having this constant obvious imbalance that's only ever "fixed" by nerfs is far worse. It feels like we keep having to choose between investing time and money in something mediocre or investing time and money in something good and hoping we have time to get something out of it before it suddenly becomes mediocre. Neither option is enjoyable and I'm tired of playing a game where the only options are to make the wrong choice or to have reality shift and make the right choice wrong with little to no warning. |
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