Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
leavwiz
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
38
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 21:19:40 -
[1] - Quote
Simply put, small corps renting space are struggling with the mining changes. We don't have a choice of space to move to when the belts run out , so recruiting across time zones only means that if you log on later than your corpmates, only means the colloasal and enormous belts will be empty. encouraging players to train for rorquals has resulted in disgruntled members no longer logging in after considerable time and isk was spent to get decent yields but with high risk. Now 2 hulks can do the same job with a lowly porpoise for boosts., A sad case of bait and switch with the rorqs that has people not bothering to log in. Why would anyone fly a 12 billion isk target when something much cheaper will do. We are not all big alliances bleeding the systems dry and wrecking the economy. some of us eke out a living in rented space that is now useless for many hours per day. Was there anything in this change that was designed to improve the player experience or entice new players? Lets try making changes that meet that goal instead of drving them away |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
368
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 21:28:15 -
[2] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:Simply put, small corps renting space are struggling with the mining changes. We don't have a choice of space to move to when the belts run out , so recruiting across time zones only means that if you log on later than your corpmates, only means the colloasal and enormous belts will be empty. encouraging players to train for rorquals has resulted in disgruntled members no longer logging in after considerable time and isk was spent to get decent yields but with high risk. Now 2 hulks can do the same job with a lowly porpoise for boosts., A sad case of bait and switch with the rorqs that has people not bothering to log in. Why would anyone fly a 12 billion isk target when something much cheaper will do. We are not all big alliances bleeding the systems dry and wrecking the economy. some of us eke out a living in rented space that is now useless for many hours per day. Was there anything in this change that was designed to improve the player experience or entice new players? Lets try making changes that meet that goal instead of drving them away
I guess that you will have to talk to the lowlifes you are renting from to get more space for the same price. Or join a proper alliance with space of its own. |
Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
154
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 21:54:43 -
[3] - Quote
It is percieved to be a situation with a vastly dangerous outcome!! |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
432
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 22:16:52 -
[4] - Quote
The Rorqual nerfs are actually a huge boost to small corps. Hulks + Orca are cheaper, faster(= safer) and much easier to train into. |
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Fortis Fortuna Adiuvatt Dot Dot Dot
146
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 22:41:47 -
[5] - Quote
It's like every time I hear about the rorqual the price goes up. 12b? Last I heard it was 8. Then 10. Is it gonna be 15b next week? If you use a mobile depo like a competent pod pilot, you won't lose drones, making a rorqual cost what, 3-4b max? (2.3b hull, rest in fittings) and even then insurance can bring the cost down. Its hilariously safe and profitable to use a rorqual if you are attentive/know what you're doing. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3419
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 00:18:47 -
[6] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:Simply put, small corps renting space are struggling with the mining changes.
Was there anything in this change that was designed to improve the player experience or entice new players? Lets try making changes that meet that goal instead of drving them away
So your small renter corp mine :
Small: Arkonor: 9600 Bistot: 12800 Crokite: 30000 Dark Ochre: 16000 Gneiss: 170000 Spodumain: 300000
Medium: Arkonor: 28000 Bistot: 38700 Crokite: 84700 Dark Ochre: 31000 Gneiss: 340000 Spodumain: 270000 Mercoxit: 2600
Large: Arkonor: 29900 Bistot: 57000 Crokite: 124000 Dark Ochre: 60000 Gneiss: 313500 Spodumain: 368100 Mercoxit: 3500
Enormous: Arkonor: 58000 Bistot: 86000 Crokite: 169000 Dark Ochre: 50000 Gneiss: 540000 Spodumain: 542000 Mercoxit: 5200
Colossal: Arkonor: 60800 Bistot: 114300 Crokite: 225200 Dark Ochre: 115000 Gneiss: 630000 Spodumain: 736200 Mercoxit: 7000
+ whatever belts you have in system
and it's not enough? How "small" is it and how many of them are "newbies"? |
leavwiz
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
38
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 02:46:20 -
[7] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote:The Rorqual nerfs are actually a huge boost to small corps. Hulks + Orca are cheaper, faster(= safer) and much easier to train into. well,, if we hadn't been led to believe there was value in training for and buying rorquals the miners would have been happy with hulks and orcas and the new porpoises. The problem was the expectation of so much more only to be double nerfed after people made the effort to train and spent the isk. The respawn rates are the bigger issue, CCP suggests moving around to offset the timers. That's fine for large alliances with multiple systems. Not so cool for renter corps in a single system. Someone else is quibbling about the price for rorquals being overstated, but a well fit one with excavator drones is easily over 10bil, fortunately , the latest change is bringing the price down. my question still stands. what positive excitement did this change create to increase recruiting and growth in the game? or retain those that trickled back in via the alpha clone options just to find out whats going on in EVE, I will still play my multiple accounts and I will still support my corp and alliance, I am just disappointed that the progress we were making in getting people back in the game has hit yet another roadblock due to changes that seem to solve a nonexistent problem.
if the economy is player driven (as stated numerous times in dev blogs) why is it necessary for CCP to step in and manipulate the minerals market? Just wondering |
Uskia Nymoso
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 02:52:23 -
[8] - Quote
Sounds like you're paying too much rent. Maybe it's time to renegotiate terms or to move to a more accommodating landlord?? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
4035
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 03:05:41 -
[9] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
and it's not enough? How "small" is it and how many of them are "newbies"?
Given they are all in Rorqs, not small or newbie from the sounds of it. And the Small re-spawns in 20 minutes also I believe it was, something very short. Unless they are mining with true clouds of Rorqs they should be able to bounce between the small & medium anyway and enjoy the bigger ones for slightly more profit in the mean time. And given that is per system....
@leavwiz. Player driven does not mean CCP don't intervene when it tilts badly out of balance. Especially since they caused the imbalance in the first place by changing the Rorq to start with. So if you believe it should never be intervened with, CCP should roll back the Rorq all the way to the original state which is even more of a nerf. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1600
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 03:18:04 -
[10] - Quote
I mined with rorqual boosts pre ascension with 4 hulks. It took me all day to mine a medium by myself and that was a FRIGGING long day that I shall never dare to repeat. Even I could get a large by myself as a miner in system and how many "small", "newbie" miners do you have that all that isnt sufficient on a daily basis?
I dont think that "small" applies to you in this case if the respawn rate is being hit on your upgrades. And if the respawn does hit then I would suggest that you could afford a second system per month rent wise quite easily.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
|
Netan MalDoran
Reckless-Endangerment Manifesto.
293
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 04:55:16 -
[11] - Quote
Something something ninja wormholes with Exhumers
"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!
Falcon's truth
|
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
165
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 05:13:38 -
[12] - Quote
There needs to be a finite number of rorquals supportable in a single system.
Congrats your "newbie" miners have found that finite number.
|
Salvos Rhoska
3039
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 06:04:43 -
[13] - Quote
Renting is a player mechanic, not a systemic one.
Options: 1) Re-negotiate your rent. 2) Join the controlling alliance proper, for more extensive access to their space. 3) Utilize your rented space more efficiently/comprehensively. 4) Move/rent somewhere else. For example, NPC Null. 5) Claim the space for yourself and defend it. 6) Setup alts to run alternative content when your space is depleted.
Your recruitment rate/retention depends on YOUR choices. Its up to you what you can offer your members, not CCP and certainly not your landlords.
You seem to operate off a false premise that your particular piece of space should be inexhaustibly, perpetually filled with riches for convenient conveyor belt extraction.
EVE doesnt work that way.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
287
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 07:04:13 -
[14] - Quote
With the incoming changes to moon mining big and small mining organisations will have plenty to do. Just be Patient. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
4180
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 07:23:57 -
[15] - Quote
If the pasture land shrinks, the obvious solution is to reduce the miner population by killing the off. It is the merciful solution.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Maxim Corvinus
Royal Armaments
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 07:36:51 -
[16] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:Algarion Getz wrote:The Rorqual nerfs are actually a huge boost to small corps. Hulks + Orca are cheaper, faster(= safer) and much easier to train into. well,, if we hadn't been led to believe there was value in training for and buying rorquals the miners would have been happy with hulks and orcas and the new porpoises. The problem was the expectation of so much more only to be double nerfed after people made the effort to train and spent the isk. The respawn rates are the bigger issue, CCP suggests moving around to offset the timers. That's fine for large alliances with multiple systems. Not so cool for renter corps in a single system. Someone else is quibbling about the price for rorquals being overstated, but a well fit one with excavator drones is easily over 10bil, fortunately , the latest change is bringing the price down. my question still stands. what positive excitement did this change create to increase recruiting and growth in the game? or retain those that trickled back in via the alpha clone options just to find out whats going on in EVE, I will still play my multiple accounts and I will still support my corp and alliance, I am just disappointed that the progress we were making in getting people back in the game has hit yet another roadblock due to changes that seem to solve a nonexistent problem. if the economy is player driven (as stated numerous times in dev blogs) why is it necessary for CCP to step in and manipulate the minerals market? Just wondering
Why should the game cater for non-efforts?
Perhaps stop being a renter? or perhaps rent more than one system?
|
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
737
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 07:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rent more than one system has been mentioned multiple times. another option is to talk to your neighbors, if your in renter space then surely there are a few other renters in your neighborhood. find one that is active in a different time zone from you and negotiate mutual access, heck, that might even evolve into an alliance allowing both groups to hold even more space. from the sounds of it you have outgrown what you have and you need to either expand to accommodate, or collapse. |
Jikai
Serene Garden Monastery
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 14:22:57 -
[18] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:How "small" is it and how many of them are "newbies"?
Intrepid Crossing Alliance is positively minuscule! Only 687 members and 10 systems.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Intrepid_Crossing
|
Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
221
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 15:30:15 -
[19] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:encouraging players to train for rorquals has resulted in disgruntled members no longer logging in after considerable time and isk was spent
Why do people **** away their wealth chasing flavor of the month ships? This isn't League of Legends, there are consequences for being that reckless with your isk.
leavwiz wrote: 12 billion isk target
leavwiz wrote: eke out a living
Wat? how out of touch are you? sell the rorq and you can PLEX for a year. sounds like a ton of wealth to the average player.
leavwiz wrote: Was there anything in this change that was designed to improve the player experience or entice new players? Lets try making changes that meet that goal instead of drving them away
Actually yes, reducing the yield of end game, high SP requirement ships like the Rorq means that mineral prices will be higher, and new players in their ventures and retrievers will get a higher isk/hr. Sounds like this change was very beneficial to new players, instead of current players that have Mom's Credit Card trained to V.
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16168
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 15:46:57 -
[20] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:Simply put, small corps renting space are struggling with the mining changes. We don't have a choice of space to move to when the belts run out , so recruiting across time zones only means that if you log on later than your corpmates, only means the colloasal and enormous belts will be empty. encouraging players to train for rorquals has resulted in disgruntled members no longer logging in after considerable time and isk was spent to get decent yields but with high risk. Now 2 hulks can do the same job with a lowly porpoise for boosts., A sad case of bait and switch with the rorqs that has people not bothering to log in. Why would anyone fly a 12 billion isk target when something much cheaper will do. We are not all big alliances bleeding the systems dry and wrecking the economy. some of us eke out a living in rented space that is now useless for many hours per day. Was there anything in this change that was designed to improve the player experience or entice new players? Lets try making changes that meet that goal instead of drving them away
There was no bait and switch. CCP NEVER EVER promised anyone that something won't change, and any idiot with a half functioning brain cell could tell that something about Rorq mining would get nerfed when the mineral market started to crash.
When i was a kid there was a saying that was obviously more popular then than now: If it looks too good to be true, IT'S NOT TRUE. This applies to EVE and I personally adhere to that lesson by ( a ) never ever running towards the 'flavor of the month' thing everyone else is (because CCP is going to nerf it) and ( b ) not getting too attached to anything in EVE online since everything in EVE Online belongs to CCP not me.
I avoid a lot of frustration by doing the above.
|
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3424
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 17:04:17 -
[21] - Quote
Constelaltion System security Class Corporation Strat index Station belts moons
SLYP-5 89-JPE -0.67 K6AWE Corporation5 1 1451 D-IZT9 -0.66 K6AWE Corporation5 1 611 E8-432 -0.68 K7AWE Corporation5 1 36 FGJP-J -0.66 K6AWE Corporation5 1 954 WU9-ZR -0.69 K7AWE Corporation5 1 313
Those are like right next to each other but OP's corp can't mine it seems... Please not how the SOV is held by OP's corp.
EDIT : My formatting..... |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
2939
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 18:39:28 -
[22] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Constelaltion System security Class Corporation Strat index Station belts moons SLYP-5 89-JPE -0.67 K6AWE Corporation5 1 1451 D-IZT9 -0.66 K6AWE Corporation5 1 611 E8-432 -0.68 K7AWE Corporation5 1 36 FGJP-J -0.66 K6AWE Corporation5 1 954 WU9-ZR -0.69 K7AWE Corporation5 1 313 Those are like right next to each other but OP's corp can't mine it seems... Please not how the SOV is held by OP's corp. EDIT : My formatting..... Poor little urchins, barely ekeing out subsistence. Won't somebody think of the children?!?
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
|
leavwiz
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
38
|
Posted - 2017.06.17 14:18:44 -
[23] - Quote
I truly appreciate all the responses to my post. the intent was to stimulate discussion and hear something other than the complaints initially generated by the mining changes and fighter changes. to be clear. My alliance is not one of the small renters I mentioned. I spoke on behalf of others that I know through diplo channels I am a rorqual owner and agree they were OP from the get go. And unless someone blows injectors to fly one, they are not for newbies. After several days of the new changes. the only real complaint seems to be the belt respawn timing. It is pretty annoying and perhaps a better mechanic could have been considered instead of just assuming miners would move to other space as the belts died (they do, but greedy ABC miners leave the mercoxit so respawns depend on the dedicated souls that clear it).
I am constantly amazed by the dedication and efforts of venture and procurer pilots who are the ones really eking out a living. Making ore harder to get should help the market and in turn help those players, But, as CCP pointed out, the large alliances simply move to other belts in their systems and keep on trucking. So n after all the hue and cry, things didn't really change much,
The only bait and switch scenario here was the shiny that made kids with credit cards buy injectors to skill up for the rorq not expecting a double nerf
Thanks again to all that respondied. There were plenty of logical responses beyond the snide remards that are so popular in these forums |
Harok Dunaila
P A I R A D I C E Silent Infinity
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 08:21:18 -
[24] - Quote
Why rent space if you can mine nullsec for free in an area like Providence. Plenty of nullsec ores around. All kind and sizes of miners are welcome. Just check if you are KOS or not.
You help a scheme of extortion instead of helping miners..... Same as CODE is asking for money in highsec. You should whine at the renters not at the game itself.
Help civilised people if you want a civilised system. Don't give your isk to folks who would just buy ships to shoot more miners or civilised people.
Imho they should pay you for the boring (constructive) job that mining is.... |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
1589
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 08:33:23 -
[25] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:Simply put, small corps renting space are struggling with the mining changes. I underlined your problem.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
4187
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 08:44:56 -
[26] - Quote
Harok Dunaila wrote:You help a scheme of extortion instead of helping miners..... Same as CODE is asking for money in highsec. You should whine at the renters not at the game itself. While I agree that it is completely appropriate to compare the ownership of space of a sov holding alliance to the ownership of Highsec of the New Order (CODEsov), how in the world is 10mil ISK for the access to all of Highsec resources for a full year extortion? I mean how does that compare to renting a single system for billions of ISK per month?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Salvos Rhoska
3047
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 08:56:30 -
[27] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Harok Dunaila wrote:You help a scheme of extortion instead of helping miners..... Same as CODE is asking for money in highsec. You should whine at the renters not at the game itself. While I agree that it is completely appropriate to compare the ownership of space of a sov holding alliance to the ownership of Highsec of the New Order (CODEsov), how in the world is 10mil ISK for the access to all of Highsec resources for a full year extortion? I mean how does that compare to renting a single system for billions of ISK per month?
Plz....
Also, I thought licenses only lasted a month.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
238
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 11:43:14 -
[28] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Harok Dunaila wrote:You help a scheme of extortion instead of helping miners..... Same as CODE is asking for money in highsec. You should whine at the renters not at the game itself. While I agree that it is completely appropriate to compare the ownership of space of a sov holding alliance to the ownership of Highsec of the New Order (CODEsov), how in the world is 10mil ISK for the access to all of Highsec resources for a full year extortion? I mean how does that compare to renting a single system for billions of ISK per month? Plz.... Also, I thought licenses only lasted a month. No licences last until they think you are worth attacking, at which point they will tell you after your ship explodes that you broke some rule.
Like not just handing over your cargo.
The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.
After all we are not just players, we are customers.
Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16178
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 12:14:45 -
[29] - Quote
Harok Dunaila wrote:Why rent space if you can mine nullsec for free in an area like Providence. Plenty of nullsec ores around. All kind and sizes of miners are welcome. Just check if you are KOS or not.
I'm not a proponent of renting (i think 'renters' should be banding together to take space not rent it), but Providence sucks. it's nothing more than a play ground for roaming gangs and where people bring in 'clean' (not on the KOS list) characters to gank people. I've lived in providence 4 times and it was a headache every time. While i don't like renting I'd find being a renter preferable to being cattle like you tend to be in providence.
Quote: You help a scheme of extortion instead of helping miners..... Same as CODE is asking for money in highsec. You should whine at the renters not at the game itself.
Why does every discussion on this forum have to turn into something about CODE? You know you're just feeding them when you do that, right?
Quote: Help civilised people if you want a civilised system. Don't give your isk to folks who would just buy ships to shoot more miners or civilised people.
Imho they should pay you for the boring (constructive) job that mining is....
The word civilised has no place here, you're playing a video game. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1617
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 12:18:43 -
[30] - Quote
JennaSide had it correct imo. As soon as something gets super popular it gets the nerf bat until theres another FOTM, more than once if necessary to "motivate" players.
Looks like rorquals got the motivational speech from CCP.
Fate
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |