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Regulus Scyssor
Industrias Fantasma
13
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Posted - 2017.07.09 22:02:22 -
[1] - Quote
Miniplex bring a infernal volatility to monthly payment. It is very easy for a miniplex to raise a million in the market, but that is equivalent to raising 500 million the monthly game lisence, the worst of all is that nothing tells us that the plex is not going to raise another million in a couple of months
The obvious solution is devaluate plex, but I think another sugesttion: lower the number of plex necessary to pay a month of play, 300 or 350 maybe... Stability game is threatened if you add nerfs and plex high values
Venture is love
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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
673
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Posted - 2017.07.10 02:08:50 -
[2] - Quote
Players choose the price not CCP. Why would they decrease it from 500? PLEX is as valuable as someone is willing to pay for it. Plus higher demand will increase that price.
Working as intended. |
Netan MalDoran
Reckless-Endangerment Manifesto.
302
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Posted - 2017.07.10 02:57:56 -
[3] - Quote
People for the most part are still going to treat 500 nuPLEX the same as an older PLEX. When you say "its easier for plex to be 1 mil more now" is the same as saying 'its easy for old plex to just increase by 400 mil". Same thing. There would be an expected inflation in price to a small extent as more people can use and buy plex, but thats about it.
"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!
Falcon's truth
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Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2017.07.10 08:20:39 -
[4] - Quote
I've been hearing talk of "investors" buying up nuPLEX and holding to force the price up more rapidly. |
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
193
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Posted - 2017.07.10 09:21:50 -
[5] - Quote
Valdr Auduin wrote:I've been hearing talk of "investors" buying up nuPLEX and holding to force the price up more rapidly.
Its been happening since plexes existed.
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Thomas Lot
Astrocomical Warped Intentions
153
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Posted - 2017.07.10 12:50:15 -
[6] - Quote
This was very predictable from an economics standpoint. Stock-splits result in a rise in price of the original stock in a majority of cases. Especially since there is not an alternative.
Prediction: 4 Million / nuPlex by Winter expansion. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
441
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Posted - 2017.07.10 15:35:22 -
[7] - Quote
they advertise what you would get as a plex if you bought it as 440 plex +60 free plex for 19.99. they try and make it sound like you are getting a great deal than what you did before buying 1 plex for the same price
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11497
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Posted - 2017.07.10 15:40:54 -
[8] - Quote
Tuttomenui II wrote:Players choose the price not CCP. That's certainly true...as far as it goes.
Should say a certain number of players. As in, not players in general. Only the market manipulation players. The ones that can afford to sit on hundreds of thousands of PLEX.
They're the ones that set the market price.
Mr Epeen
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Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
397
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Posted - 2017.07.10 16:02:24 -
[9] - Quote
Thomas Lot wrote:This was very predictable from an economics standpoint. Stock-splits result in a rise in price of the original stock in a majority of cases. Especially since there is not an alternative.
Prediction: 4 Million / nuPlex by Winter expansion.
That's what I predicted months before the update. And people told me I had no idea what I was talking about and asked for my figures and i told them it was common sense the prices would sky rocket to 3-4m.
Either was it's unacceptable as I rely on Plex to play the game. 2b a month is too much, 1b is constant grinding as is. They need to seriously buff faction spawns or bounties and general loot drops if they expect people to simply not quit at those prices who can't pay for subscription. The easiest fix is just add a market cap of 2m. It cant be sold on market above 2m a unit. |
Memphis Baas
3044
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Posted - 2017.07.10 18:13:09 -
[10] - Quote
Yeah market price cap, rofl. That'll work. |
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Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2017.07.10 20:39:32 -
[11] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:Thomas Lot wrote:This was very predictable from an economics standpoint. Stock-splits result in a rise in price of the original stock in a majority of cases. Especially since there is not an alternative.
Prediction: 4 Million / nuPlex by Winter expansion. That's what I predicted months before the update. And people told me I had no idea what I was talking about and asked for my figures and i told them it was common sense the prices would sky rocket to 3-4m. Either was it's unacceptable as I rely on Plex to play the game. 2b a month is too much, 1b is constant grinding as is. They need to seriously buff faction spawns or bounties and general loot drops if they expect people to simply not quit at those prices who can't pay for subscription. The easiest fix is just add a market cap of 2m. It cant be sold on market above 2m a unit. Nobody would sell. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1699
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Posted - 2017.07.10 21:28:53 -
[12] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:The easiest fix is just add a market cap of 2m. It cant be sold on market above 2m a unit. People would just stop selling on the market and switch to contracts.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6740
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Posted - 2017.07.10 21:34:10 -
[13] - Quote
Coralas wrote:Valdr Auduin wrote:I've been hearing talk of "investors" buying up nuPLEX and holding to force the price up more rapidly. Its been happening since plexes existed.
Why? Attempts to corner markets in this manner tend to fail spectacularly.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Dravos Tarimus
Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan
38
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Posted - 2017.07.10 21:40:51 -
[14] - Quote
Valdr Auduin wrote:I've been hearing talk of "investors" buying up nuPLEX and holding to force the price up more rapidly. Space kulaks
Dravos' Diary: A Newbie's Attempts To Git Gud
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6740
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Posted - 2017.07.10 21:41:37 -
[15] - Quote
Thomas Lot wrote:This was very predictable from an economics standpoint. Stock-splits result in a rise in price of the original stock in a majority of cases. Especially since there is not an alternative.
Prediction: 4 Million / nuPlex by Winter expansion.
Stock splits in and of themselves do not result in price increases. The fact that the price might have been high which lead the Board of Directors to split the stock may indicate strong growth potential leading to higher prices post split. But the split itself is not really a significant factor. It is like saying you cut each piece of cake in half so now you have more cake...no, you don't.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11502
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Posted - 2017.07.10 21:42:36 -
[16] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Coralas wrote:Valdr Auduin wrote:I've been hearing talk of "investors" buying up nuPLEX and holding to force the price up more rapidly. Its been happening since plexes existed. Why? Attempts to corner markets in this manner tend to fail spectacularly. You mean like De Beers?
The guys who buy up every diamond mine in the world so they can sit on their stock and trickle shiny stones into the market for $2,000.00 to $200,000.00 that they paid a nickle for?
Yeah...that never works.
Mr Epeen
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Dravos Tarimus
Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan
38
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Posted - 2017.07.10 21:42:58 -
[17] - Quote
Tuttomenui II wrote:Players choose the price not CCP. Why would they decrease it from 500? PLEX is as valuable as someone is willing to pay for it. Plus higher demand will increase that price.
Working as intended. I don't think OP is complaining about the mechanics of the free market. Rather, I think OP is complaining that the change in PLEX mechanics by CCP has resulted in more volatility in PLEX prices.
Dravos' Diary: A Newbie's Attempts To Git Gud
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6740
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Posted - 2017.07.10 21:49:59 -
[18] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Matthias Ancaladron wrote:The easiest fix is just add a market cap of 2m. It cant be sold on market above 2m a unit. People would just stop selling on the market and switch to contracts.
Yup. I have never understood why people prefer no PLEX at all vs. PLEX at a high price. Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
Why could the price of PLEX be going up? PLEX are taking over for Aurum. Gee...increased demand can never ever lead to an increase in the price. That is just crazy talk. So much better to posit a grand conspiracy that is manipulating the price of PLEX.
For those who believe the conspiracy theory....tell me this: how do you unwind a multi-trillion ISK position in PLEX with out crashing the market or even just seeing the price start to decline? That has always been the problem when trying to corner a market. You buy up a mega-crap-ton of the commodity and the price goes up. You are now richer...on paper. How do you convert those paper gains to real gains? That is how do you liquidate your stock of the commodity without dropping the price?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6740
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Posted - 2017.07.10 23:01:11 -
[19] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Coralas wrote:Valdr Auduin wrote:I've been hearing talk of "investors" buying up nuPLEX and holding to force the price up more rapidly. Its been happening since plexes existed. Why? Attempts to corner markets in this manner tend to fail spectacularly. You mean like De Beers? The guys who buy up every diamond mine in the world so they can sit on their stock and trickle shiny stones into the market for $2,000.00 to $200,000.00 that they paid a nickle for? Yeah...that never works. Mr Epeen
You found one of the few exeptions...congratulations. Try looking up the Hunt Brothers, or Yasuo Hamanaka and what he left Sumitomo left holding in regards to copper, or Prosche's attempt to corner the market on Volkswagen shares. China also tried it with rare earth metals of which it produced about 97%. Like the previous examples it did not end like they thought when old closed mines were re-opened. Malaysia also tried to corner the market on tin, but had to abandon the attempt while suffering large losses.
And how exactly an one corner the market and drive up the price when people can buy PLEX for RL money and sell them in game?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11502
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Posted - 2017.07.10 23:17:24 -
[20] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Coralas wrote:Valdr Auduin wrote:I've been hearing talk of "investors" buying up nuPLEX and holding to force the price up more rapidly. Its been happening since plexes existed. Why? Attempts to corner markets in this manner tend to fail spectacularly. You mean like De Beers? The guys who buy up every diamond mine in the world so they can sit on their stock and trickle shiny stones into the market for $2,000.00 to $200,000.00 that they paid a nickle for? Yeah...that never works. Mr Epeen You found one of the few exeptions...congratulations. Try looking up the Hunt Brothers, or Yasuo Hamanaka and what he left Sumitomo left holding in regards to copper, or Prosche's attempt to corner the market on Volkswagen shares. China also tried it with rare earth metals of which it produced about 97%. Like the previous examples it did not end like they thought when old closed mines were re-opened. Malaysia also tried to corner the market on tin, but had to abandon the attempt while suffering large losses. And how exactly an one corner the market and drive up the price when people can buy PLEX for RL money and sell them in game? 1) You only need one exception to disprove a generalization. But if you want more, look for them. They're there. 2) You are seriously dedicated to spend hours scouring Google for examples to prove your overly broad statement.
Mr Epeen
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permion
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
40
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Posted - 2017.07.10 23:40:15 -
[21] - Quote
Of course people are buying up plex. It's one of the few items in the game that keeps value against inflation. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1243
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Posted - 2017.07.11 08:36:50 -
[22] - Quote
Regulus Scyssor wrote:Miniplex brings a infernal volatility to monthly payment. It is very easy for a miniplex to raise a million in the market, but that is equivalent to raising 500 million the monthly game lisence, the worst of all is that nothing tells us that the plex is not going to raise another million in a couple of months
The obvious solution is devaluate plex, but I think another sugesttion: lower the number of plex necessary to pay a month of play, 300 or 350 maybe... Stability game is threatened if you add nerfs mechanics and plex high values
1) there is way too much ISK in the game. 2) everyone wants to play for free -> profit (for plex sellers)
buy them now, they arent going to drop in price any time soon. |
Marek Kanenald
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2017.07.11 08:40:59 -
[23] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Regulus Scyssor wrote:Miniplex brings a infernal volatility to monthly payment. It is very easy for a miniplex to raise a million in the market, but that is equivalent to raising 500 million the monthly game lisence, the worst of all is that nothing tells us that the plex is not going to raise another million in a couple of months
The obvious solution is devaluate plex, but I think another sugesttion: lower the number of plex necessary to pay a month of play, 300 or 350 maybe... Stability game is threatened if you add nerfs mechanics and plex high values 1) there is way too much ISK in the game. 2) everyone wants to play for free -> profit (for plex sellers) buy them now, they arent going to drop in price any time soon.
But they WILL drop in price once the significant nerfs to carrier ratting are implemented.
It will take a while but closing the isk faucet will have an effect. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1243
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Posted - 2017.07.11 08:57:21 -
[24] - Quote
you think carriers are flooding eve with ISK? lmao. eve has been oversaturated with ISK for years yet ratting carriers contribute very very little to it. |
Regulus Scyssor
Cuervos Imperiales Goonswarm Federation
16
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Posted - 2017.07.28 10:01:59 -
[25] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXWZRWLabEs
Venture is love
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Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1769
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Posted - 2017.07.28 10:13:50 -
[26] - Quote
All these threads about the PLEX price that are popping up here recently seem to have the premise that the PLEX price needs to be low. But I cannot see the reasoning behind this. Since none of the OPs in these threads ever explain it, I must be missing something fairly obvious. Could somebody explain this to me please: Why does the PLEX price need to be low? |
Arcelian
Metentis
229
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Posted - 2017.07.28 11:20:21 -
[27] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:All these threads about the PLEX price that are popping up here recently seem to have the premise that the PLEX price needs to be low. But I cannot see the reasoning behind this. Since none of the OPs in these threads ever explain it, I must be missing something fairly obvious. Could somebody explain this to me please: Why does the PLEX price need to be low?
It's generally a good thing when plex prices are low, because that means less established players are buying them to sell them on the market. More players=better for eve. But...the price keeps rising because supply is not meeting the demand, plus the hoarders play into that as well.
It's great for someone like me who doesn't use PLEX and pays by sub, bad for those that would rather grind than pay fifty cents a day (even less with multi-month subs) for hours of free entertainment.
I don't get why that $15 USD is such a barrier for entry, maybe I'm just privileged. If you really wanted to you could make a fleet of alphas and grind level 2 missions til you get enough cash for a 6 month sub.
Or, just open your wallet. |
Gavin Tremlor
30plus Fidelas Constans
4
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Posted - 2017.07.28 11:44:30 -
[28] - Quote
This is an outrage! I can't be expected to pay for my entertainment! Next you'll be be expecting me to pay a cable bill or to go to the movies!
I demand an equal share of everything. All PLEX should be forcibly taken from players that have more than 500 in their PLEX Vault and distributed freely to all other active accounts. Only then will life be fair. #MakeNewEdenGreatAgain #Feminism #NotMyFC
/end sarcasm |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
746
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Posted - 2017.07.28 12:48:44 -
[29] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:All these threads about the PLEX price that are popping up here recently seem to have the premise that the PLEX price needs to be low. But I cannot see the reasoning behind this. Since none of the OPs in these threads ever explain it, I must be missing something fairly obvious. Could somebody explain this to me please: Why does the PLEX price need to be low?
Because "I can't afford it now, and my income is entirely reliant on grinding. I've been playing for x-amount of years using only plex and so i'm entitled to continue using them forever"
obviously the problem is with the increase in plex prices, and not the manner in which they make their ISK. I've found the people who complain the loudest and most often about it are either miners, or ratters, since both income streams are largely disconnected from the plex market. (mining is tied into the general market yes, but that step alone is so far away from it that the impacts are minimal)
rather than alter their play style, they see the only way forward as being to either grind more minerals (which keeps mineral prices low, hurting themselves, as well as keeping ship prices low which makes it harder for industrialists to make money) or to rat more, which directly injects even more ISK into the economy, pushing the price of plex even further up. |
Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1769
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Posted - 2017.07.28 17:26:24 -
[30] - Quote
Arcelian wrote:I don't get why that $15 USD is such a barrier for entry, maybe I'm just privileged. You probably are. I probably am. I'd say most if not all Eve players are - they have the luxury of having a gaming-capable computer, internet and electricity after all. I think paying a recurring fee is more of a psychological hurdle for most people who would even consider playing a spaceship game on the internet. That's why microtransactions work so well. People *feel* more in control when they can play the (supposedly) full game whenever they like, and only pay when they feel like it. Whether they actually do have more control that way is a different topic.
I do not believe that cheaper PLEX equals more players anyway, unless the price drops to a level easily sustainable even by casual, low SP players. And if they were that cheap, most people would just start plexing their accounts, and they would not stay that cheap for long. Way back in the day, when PLEX didn't exist, and players still traded game time codes for ISK on the forums, I was able to witness how this goes: I was playing other games back then, such as Archeage 2 and World of Warcraft, and I found a few people interested in Eve. So I brought them over from there. They did not want to pay for it, despite being perfectly capable of sustaining 15 bucks a month. So they tried to grind their way to a GTC, which was maybe 300M back then. They did this for a week, two weeks, maybe 3. One of them made it far enough to actually purchase his next month, but gave up on the one after that. It's just not fun, it's work. And not only that, for most people it's work they do so they can keep working for a few months, and they quickly realize it. And if they are unwilling to pay 15 bucks for the game, I reckon tha majority is not willing to work for a couple of months to become self-sufficient either.
Ultimately, I do not think that "I feel better not having to pay 15 bucks a month" beats "I want to make as much space-money as I can when selling 15 bucks worth of game time". Both are valid in their own right, and the rest is up to the free market.
Another problem I see there: Lower PLEX prices would potentially reduce the influx of PLEX into the game as well. Why would anyone in their right mind even sell a PLEX for let's say 500 or 300 million ISK? That's 15 bucks for what? A single not even expensively fit T2 Cruiser or a Battleship? |
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